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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Spatts on Wednesday 25 May 11 21:21 BST (UK)
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Hello my fellow Mancunians,
I'm wondering if anyone can help with a Certificate my Grt Uncle Harry was awarded by the Norwegian Government for the help to free Norway, pictures enclosed.
Regards,
Spatts.
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There are numerous references on Google relating the certificate, just
type in..... Liberation of Norway certificate.
It appears that no one knows how many were handed out.
Mike.
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Thanks Saddles,
I was trying alsorts on Google but, no luck, I'll try that Lib of Nor Cert see what comes up.
Thanks again,
Spatts.
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Hi!
This is "pure gold"!
The Certificate is signed by Crown Prince Olav, later King Olav V of Norway (1903-91)
The drawing is a Birkebeiner-skier, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkebeiner (Especially the paragraph"1200 Onwards").
Jan in Norway
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Hi Jan,
Thank you for the link, it was a interesting read on the history of the Kings of Norway & a good explanation of how the Certificate come about.
Regards,
Spatts.
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You welcome!
Considering the British participation in the war in Norway, we should
also grant a thought to the 895 British soldiers who did not make it
back from here...
J
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Hear hear Jan,
A lot of members of family on my Mother's & Father's side never returned from both wars. I do have a post on the Cheshire page, (A Family Go To War) I have been trying to trace a picture taken of my 3x Grt Grandfather & his 8 son that were in the Great war, 9 in all, only 2 came back, my 3x Grt Grandfather & 1 son.
They had a picture taken together, all 9 of them, which was in either a Stockport paper or a Manchester Paper, the search goes on.
Regards,
Spatts.
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They were given to everyone who was in Norway on the 8th May 1945 - the entire 1st Airborne Div; Paras. 1st Air Landing Brigade - 1st Border Regt; 1st South Staffs Regt and 10th Kings Own Scottish Borderers to the best of my knowledge plus of course all the other attached units. We provided the Guard of Honour for King Haakon's return to Bergen.
George. Ex - Harry Lauders. (Dragons to the Fore !!)
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Thank you Iban,
I'll note the Regts & Div down for future reference & I've had contact from the Paradata web site, just awaiting another reply.
Regards,
Spatts.
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They were given to everyone who was in Norway on the 8th May 1945 - the entire 1st Airborne Div; Paras. 1st Air Landing Brigade - 1st Border Regt; 1st South Staffs Regt and 10th Kings Own Scottish Borderers to the best of my knowledge plus of course all the other attached units. We provided the Guard of Honour for King Haakon's return to Bergen.
George. Ex - Harry Lauders. (Dragons to the Fore !!)
Interesting "Frustrated Iban"!
(Didn' t understand your last line though...)
I know my late mother & uncle were in contact with some British soldiers in Oslo in 1945, have unidentified pictures!
In the meantime, there is one newpaper clipping here I would like to share with the forum:
The winter 1942 was very cold in Norway and newspapers were used as insulation, during restoration work a few years ago this Waffen SS propaganda ad was found. It reads "Fight for Norway, sign up at Storgt. 12". May have had something to do with the fact that Quisling promised Hitler 10,000 Norwegian troops to the eastern front.
...but history turned & ended with "Uncle Harry & his mates"...
J
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Hi Jan,
Thanks for the last post, it would be interesting to see the unidentified pictures, just to see if Uncle Harry is on any of them. I tried zooming in on Harry's picture to see if I could make out the cap badge but, didn't have any luck, it would take someone with more experience than myself.
Paradata have replied & said they would be in touch in a couple of weeks, so I'm eagerly awaiting their next reply. I was wondering if there is any links to records of men signing up for the British forces prior & during WW2 or if a 100 years has to lapse like census records?
I will PM you my e-mail address Jan, if you are willing to let me see the pictures, appreciate your interest in my post.
Regards,
Spatts.
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Ha- Ha Jan ,
The 'Harry Lauders' was the army-slang name for the 1st Bn The Border Regiment.
Our Regimental Flag carried the Green Dragon (a Battle honour from China - The Boxer Rebellions) our charging war cry was 'Dragons to the Fore'
Or as we used to say to other units - "Get out of the way we're coming through."
George. ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks both of you for replies & message!
No surprise I was lost, Iban! (Reminds me of the Finns in the Winter War:
"Hogg inn, hogg inn, Nordens menn!" (Translates loosely to "Chop down, chop down, nordic men!)
I'll post my Army pictures here or under "World War II" when I get them out!
J
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Hi again!
Clearly this is not uncle Harry, but is he British...?
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Hi again Jan,
A great photograph but I doubt very much if he is British Forces. At first sight I thought possibly R.A.F. as they were the only ones who wore metal buttons with Battledress; but then I noted that the shirt is white which is the wrong colour for RAF - they wore Blue shirts with black tie - and the buttons on the forage cap are definitely not RAF ones, they appear to be black rosettes or similar - more like Norwegian Forces in uniforms similar to to our battledress.
There were Free Norwegian Forces working with us in those days that I do remember, we had a few with us in the 1st Air Landing Brigade.
Sorry I cannot be any more specific Jan, it is a long time time ago now - some 66 years if my maths are correct.
We left Norway in the October/November 1945 to return to the UK landing at Leith in Scotland if I remember rightly then by train down to the East Anglian area, a camp near to Boston, Lincolnshire I believe where we stood down from being Airborne and became normal Infantry once again and were in the Occupation Forces in Germany by the end of November 1945, a place called Hannoversch Munden close to the Russian Sector.
Strange as it may seem the picture of Harry Walker looks somewhat familiar to me but lets face it in those days we all looked similar BUT is is one taken after the end of the war as he is wearing a tie and is beginning to scrub the lapels of his BD jacket as became the fashion by about early 1946.
George (Iban)
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Hi yet again Jan,
Missed out the PS.
Harry Walker was Royal Artillery - as is indicated by his rank of Bombardier. (Bdr.)
George
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Hi again Iban!
Sorry for not replying sooner, but I got tied up in another topic!
I think you are right, this is probably one of the free Norwegian forces, he does not look particularly British, eh?
However nice "talking" to someone who came to liberate us in 1945!
Although I am second generation I've been told a lot of stories from the occupation, the unexpected attack, the caotic attempt to defend the country, the occupation horror, rationing, sensorship etc.
I think the situation was quite tense in Norway in May 1945?
The Germans had 350,000 troops in the country, how where they going to act...?
What's your experience of that?
Jan
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Hi yet again Jan,
I hit a wrong key there and lost all that I had written - from what I remeber it definitely was a very tense period for the first few weeks; many of the German Special Units were reluctant to surrender their weapons but eventually acceoted the fact and complied.
We made many friend amongst your people and many parties were held whenever possible. By the time we left we felt that we had done a good job and that the appreciation for that was genuine.
I for one was very sorry when the time came for us to leave, there was so much to see and do, however Orders were Orders and that was it.
I hve enjoyed our little chats and will try to help if ever I can with your queries.
Take care, warmest regards,
Iban, George.
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Hi Jan & George,
Thank you so much for the information & stories concerning Norway, Uncle Harry's cap badge & the Liberation Certificate, appreciate the help you gave, it was very helpful.
Kind regards,
Spatts. :)
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:) Hi Guys,
After rumaging through boxes in the loft, I come across some more old pics & another pic Harry Walker with a different cap badge????
Well, I'm confused now, can George or anyone tell me what the cap badges are on these jolly fellows, Harry Walker on the left.
spatts.
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Hi
On 8th May 1945 Norwegian and British troops landed in Norway, followed on 13th May by Crown Prince Olav and representatives of the Norwegian government.
The Units involved were the 146 Infantry Division and the 1st Airborne Division.
146 Infantry Division included the following Royal Artillery units
69, 70, 71, 74, 79, 80, 143, 178, 185 Field Regiment, RA
55, 58, 88 Anti-Tank Regiment, RA
89, 118 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA
1st Airborne Div included the following Royal Artillery
1st Airlanding Light Regiment, Royal Artillery
1st Forward (Airborne) Observation Unit, Royal Artillery
The code word for the operation was Operation Doomsday.
Have not been able to identify the cap badge, the bottom part seems to be a hunting horn which is used by Rifle regiments
Hope this helps narrow down you search
neil
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Hi Neil,
Thank you for the information, Harry's cap badge on the first picture I put up is a Royal Artillery badge, I'm wondering if he was involved in the first to land in Norway & the Hunting horn meant that he was either in the Light Regiment, Royal Artillery or the Observation Unit, Royal Artillery.
I will do some more digging & try to find out which Unit Harry was in or which of the Units were from Manchester.
Thanks again Neil,
Spatts.
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You might try this site, if you have Harry Walker's regimental number the Mod will release his service record to next of kin for a fee, it also has a number of other links specifically for tracing gunners
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.army.mod.uk/ra/gunnernet/research/tracing_gunner_records.htm
Neil
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I dont think the cap badges on the picture are Royal Artillery, they look like The Rifles.
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This may also be of interest in this topic:
Last summer I had the pleasure of reading "vi dro mot nord" (English: "We were heading north") - a book written by two Norwegians, but describing the invasion of Norway with German eyes & based on German archive material as well as interviews with former soldiers.
When capturing the north of Gudbrandsdalen, the Germans took a Whole train full of British equpiment, - amongst that: a lot of sporting equipment!
Private Herbert Silla wrote in his diary: "The Tommies* were obviously planning to do sports. Unfortunately it turned out to be only one sport: Long Distance Running. In return they performed excellent..."
Jan
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Thank you Neil & Jan,
Much appreciate the time & trouble you have taken, it is one of the family story line I will be back onto in the near future, thanks again.
Best regards,
Spatts.
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Dear All
This is my first post. I have been finding the exchange really interesting as I was only recently told that my grandfather was also involved in Operation Doomsday. I would be interested to know why his certificate has a photograph, as I have not seen any others on the Internet that do?
His name was Charles Arthur Wanger and he was in the 96 Battalion, Royal Artillery.