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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: carol8353 on Wednesday 27 April 05 17:24 BST (UK)

Title: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 27 April 05 17:24 BST (UK)
My Worth family are at 171  Black Road in 1881.
Nearly all born Macclesfield Cheshire or around.
Apart from Margaret,who is born somewhere different on each census!
From Hazel Grove,to Manchester,to Macclesfield and by 1901 has no idea at all!!!

Can anyone else suggest where this 1881 image says she is born please.

Many thanks,

Carol




Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: sillgen on Wednesday 27 April 05 17:31 BST (UK)
Looks like Surrey Mdx (Middlesex?) London!!!
Andrea
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: 'Tricia on Wednesday 27 April 05 17:33 BST (UK)
Surrey  ...(?) London

Looking at original image the second word look more like nr with a 3rd letter crossed out.

So, Surrey near London?

Tricia
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: jacdee on Wednesday 27 April 05 17:35 BST (UK)
Yeah, i agree, Surrey and London. I can't make out the middle bit, but like Andrea said it's probably middlesex.
Jacdee
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 27 April 05 17:37 BST (UK)
Now I've blown it up and looked myself I would tend to agree,but what has the enumerator written to the left of the place name.

Or does that relate to my gt gt grandad's smelly job !!!  ::)

Thanks

Carol
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: Sylviaann on Wednesday 27 April 05 17:39 BST (UK)
Sorry I thought it said sunny old London  ;D
Probably Surrey Middx London but that is no help at all.

Sylviaann
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: Ceci on Wednesday 27 April 05 17:44 BST (UK)
I thought it said Surrey ??? London too. I see the transcribed version isn't much help:

'London Sunny Side Lindin Or, London, Middlesex, England'

Do you have a maiden name for her?

Ceci
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 27 April 05 17:45 BST (UK)
The 'official' 1881 version is Sunny Side Lindin  ??? ??? ???

Which isn't anywhere near as amusing as Sunny Old London Sylvia  ;D

Carol
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 27 April 05 17:48 BST (UK)
Yes Hall is her maiden name on marr cert of 1858.Margaret age 23 at the time.
Dad Charles a labourer and poss sister Elizabeth(she was a witness)
Oh to get an unusual surname once in a while  :(

Carol
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: Ceci on Wednesday 27 April 05 18:11 BST (UK)
Just had a look at the Familyhistoryonline website, but Surrey & Cheshire baptisms not on there. When I tried a general search, I got a message saying the name HALL is too frequent to perform such a search! So sorry - no luck there.

I don't know about sunny old London, but where I am in Surrey, today we have had thunder, hail and such heavy rain that it started coming through my ceiling! Now it is a beautiful sunny evening!

Regards
Ceci
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: Clincher on Wednesday 27 April 05 18:15 BST (UK)
The same family group (plus a Charles then 11 months) appears in 1871 Census RG10/3675 folio 146B page 14. Margaret's birthplace is stated there as 'Cheshire Hazle Grove'.
The home address is described as '7 Court 2 house' and seems to be between 29 and 31 Parsonage street, Macclesfield
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 27 April 05 18:20 BST (UK)
I have this family back to pre 1800,on the Worth side.
It's just Margaret nee Hall that I've never been able to track down.
I sort of gave up really not knowing where she was born......and still don't  ;D

The 1861 gives her birth place as Manchester,the 1871 as Hazel Grove.

So thanks people but previous censuses are not required thanks. ;D

Carol
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: Ceci on Wednesday 27 April 05 19:24 BST (UK)
I've come back for another go and the more I look at it , the more I think the middle word looks like 'side'. There seems to be a dot floating around and one of the letters looks like the 'd' in London? There is a Sunnyside in London SW19 ie. a road in Wimbledon. There are also Sunnyside Roads, Gardens, Pass and Drive in London, but no district that I can find. Would she have been confused enough to give an actual address as her birthplace, or could it mean Surrey side of London?

Hope you manage to solve this one,

Ceci
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: JAP on Thursday 28 April 05 04:59 BST (UK)
Hi Carol,

Some thoughts for what they are worth.

My immediate reaction was Sunny side, London but ...

Is there any possibility that this is not the same Margaret as the one in 1861 and
1871 but that she died and William married again to another Margaret (with a
different birthplace)?

Perhaps 1901 can be discounted - perhaps William filled in the form and remembered
where he'd been born but had forgotten Margaret's birthplace by then (and perhaps
she grew up in Macclesfield)?  Incidentally, were William and Margaret literate - if
not that introduces more possibilities for error.  You said that 1861 says Manchester,
1871 says Hazel Grove, and 1881 is the current puzzle.  What does 1891 say?

Perhaps Manchester instead of Hazel Grove might be understandable?  If the
enumerator didn't know where Hazel Grove was, queried it, was told it was to the
north on the way to Manchester (and it has now become part of Greater Manchester
I see), he might have taken the easy way out and entered Manchester?

Is there any remote possibility that what we are reading as Lindin or London could be
Lancs?  Not that there seems to be a Sunny side around.  I looked at Hazel Grove on
Old Maps - the closest is a Sunny Mount just to the SE of the village.

Have you tried the 1841 and 1851 Hazel Grove and Macclesfield censuses for the
HALL family - a common surname but Charles as a forename is a lot better (i.e. less
common) than (say) John or William.

Good luck,

JAP
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: mirl on Thursday 28 April 05 06:05 BST (UK)
Hi there,

Looking at the 1891 census, it would appear that the family is living in the same house and they are all 10 years older except for William and Margaret who are still 48 and 46 as per 1881 census.  Margarets place of birth is shown as NK (presumable not known).

Cheers, Mirl
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 28 April 05 06:51 BST (UK)
Yes,and by 1901 she is still with William at 171 Black Road,Macc.
But now born in Macclesfield.

Peter Bennett in Cheshire(see Cheshire board) has tried 1841 and 51 for me- come up with one possibilty,but I was throwing this open to others for their suggestions. ;D

That's an interesting point JAP,no they weren't literate- well neither signed the marr cert in 1858.But I don't think he swapped Margarets along the way  ;)
This ones age is certainly fairly consistent- it's just her birth place,and one wonders if the enumerator just guessed sometimes !

Carol
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: JAP on Thursday 28 April 05 07:44 BST (UK)
<snip>Peter Bennett in Cheshire(see Cheshire board) has tried 1841 and 51 for me- come up with one possibilty<snip>

It would take some searching through the whole Cheshire board for us to try to find out what that possibility was!  Could you throw that piece of information in here just in case it helps anyone?

So you have Manchester (1861), Hazel Grove (1871), something indeterminate - image posted here (1881), Not Known (1891), and Macclesfield (1901 - and they'd been living in Macclesfield for a very long time which might explain the last one).

Does Margaret's address at her marriage help at all? Seeing all the information sometimes helps - certainly I've more than once benefited from a new pair of eyes picking out something I'd failed to see myself.

Cheers,

JAP 

Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 28 April 05 07:55 BST (UK)
Sorry Jap,my mind isn't on it at the mo-my mum had a new shoulder yesterday  ::)

Here's the link  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,44133.0.html

and no of course the marr cert doesn't help(TYPICAL!!!) they both lived in............Macclesfield  ::)

I'll try and scan the cert in later-if I get time.

Thanks for your interest

Carol
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: Paul E on Thursday 28 April 05 07:57 BST (UK)
I'd definately go with "Sunny side" but as for the next word, I'd discount the fourth letter being a 'd', leaving "Lin?"

One would expect a county here, I suppose.


Paul
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: Manchester Rambler on Thursday 28 April 05 08:51 BST (UK)
Lincoln????

 ??? ???

MR
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 28 April 05 11:07 BST (UK)
Here's the 1858 marr cert if anyone's interested.No clues here though  ::)


Carol





Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: JillJ on Thursday 28 April 05 21:37 BST (UK)
I think the second word is definitely Lincoln.  I have seen a few census images of Lincolnshire and that is how the enumerator's abbreviated the county on some of them.

The first part looks like Sunny Side and this leads me to wonder if it is somewhere on the Lincolnshire coast where nowadays all the caravan sites are called 'Sunny something'!

Jill
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: Lesanne on Thursday 28 April 05 23:56 BST (UK)
        :)  Hiya,
                   Just putting my tu'penuth in.
          What is written on the above line over the word labourer?

                                  Lesanne.  :D
                                     
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: JAP on Friday 29 April 05 00:35 BST (UK)
The 1881 census on FamilySearch has the words after labourer as "Farm Drainage".

It would be good if the 1841 census for Hazel Grove could be checked - just in case she actually was born there and, if so, just in case the family was still there.

JAP
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 29 April 05 06:42 BST (UK)
Jap

Thank you SOooooo much for deciphering the words 'Farm Drainage' it is so flipping obvious  ::) when you know what it says- and yet for years I have pondered over that.So now we know what sort of a poo shoveller my gt gt grandad was  ;D

And yes I will post on the Cheshire board to see if Peter(or someone) can look at Hazel Grove for me.Brilliant suggestions- thanks.

That is precisely why Rootschat is so great- I think you become stuck with your own research,it helps so much to get a few fresh ideas from others.

So thanks to all of you.

All the best

Carol
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: Lesanne on Friday 29 April 05 08:14 BST (UK)
 :) Hi Carol,
             Would you keep me in mind when you go to Hazel Grove,
only I have a feeling that's where The Weaving family are to be found.

                                Lesanne.  :D
Title: Re: Cheshire 1881- can anyone read this image please?
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 29 April 05 08:16 BST (UK)
Lesanne

I won't be going to Hazel Grove- but I have posted a look up request on the Cheshire board,suggest you do the same  ;D

ATB

Carol