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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: fastfreddie on Wednesday 01 June 11 15:19 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help with any info about the family of John Gillow who lived in Ballynaleck nr Poyntzpass. I cannot find exactly when he was born but I estimate it was around 1840. He had two daughters - one was my grandmother - the other was named Martha Caroline and she married a man named George Scattergood (what a great name!) in Belfast in 1908.
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Hi,
There is a will complete with image for your John in PRONI. See http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearch.aspx
Regards
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Thanks for pointing it out to me - I had not noticed the image was available - the inclusion of the images has just been a huge improvement by PRONI - they make the data so much more real and yet very sad at the same time.
Dermot
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Dermot,
I also had a look for George Scattergood and found a 17 year old in an army barracks in Dublin in the 1901 census. He says he was born in Canada, The 1911 census has your George with his wife and child. He is now 29 ( age errors are common in the census) but he is now a cabinetmaker and says he was born in Co. Down. Can there be two George Scattergoods??? See http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
Regards
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Surely we only have the one George Scattergood - I found him in a 1918 Belfast St Directory - but then he seems to go 'missing'. But the Canada idea is something new I will try - I wonder if he went back home? Like you, I found a George Scattergood in the Irish Lancers in Dublin aged only 17 but then I have to ask how a young Martha Gillow from Ballynaleck ever met him?
I did ask my Dad once about George and the Gillow Family and the only thing he would say was that George had a "colourful past!
Dermot
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Think the confusion over George Scattergood's origins stems from the details in 1911 Census- says he and wife Martha are born Co. Down (would have thought she born Co.Armagh).
The first clue is George's full name as on marriage certificate- George FREDERICK Scattergood- and the names of his children: Gladys Caroline (1909), Herbert John (1911), Kathleen FRANCES (1915), Ida (1920)- and sadly looks like Martha died around the time of Ida's birth. Second clue is George's occupation in 1911- cabinetmaker.
In 1901 George F. Scattergood, age 19, cabinetmaker, is living with parents (William and FRANCES) and siblings in Lancashire, ENGLAND. He's also listed with them in 1891 census.
Have to go out now but let me know if you need more information on George Scattergood.
Also found more on Gillow family which I can post if you wish.
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aghadowey
As you suspected, Ida's mother did die during childbirth. I did know about Gladys - but the other children are completely new to me.
But I am still confused about George and the Gillow family The census details must be wrong - George cannot have been born in Ireland but when did he/they decide to come to Co Armagh? I know he lived in Belfast after he and Martha were married - but he and the children must have left Belfast after Martha died (I think?)
And yes I would love to see any other data you have!
Thank-you so much for your help on this one.
Dermot
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Hi,
There is a military record of a George F Scattergood who was born in Halifax Canada in 1883. His father, not named was in the 1ST RMF?? George may have had a sister called Honor Lucy borg in 1881 in Canada.
Regards
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Am fairly sure that the George F. Scattergood in 1901 English census that I found is the correct person and George F. Scattergood born Canada is a different person. See reply #5
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Think I found family after they left Ireland (or at least some of them).
Dermot- do you know exact birthdate of Gladys Caroline Scattergood?
Also- any idea of Ida's exact birthdate?
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Don't have an exact date for Caroline.
Ida's was (*) 1919.
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I was hoping you had Gladys' birthdate to confirm that the marriage and death I found is really her. Off again to check further and will post details laet.
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I think the family went to England sometime after Martha died- remember that George would have been left with young children so perhaps his family helped look after them.
Found a marriage for a Gladys C. Scattergood Jan./Mar.1951 Brighton district to David Pask. (see freebmd.org.uk)
Possible matching death- Cladys Caroline Pask born 3 Jan.1909 died Aug.1999 Brighton district
Haven't found a death for Ida so I've removed day and month of her birth from your post in case she's still alive.
FreeBMD also lists a death which might be Kathleen-
Kathleen F. Scattergood, age 9, Jan./Mar.1925 Manchester South district
And a George F. Scattergood only a year or two younger than George Frederick Scattergood-
George F. Scattergood, age 42, Apr./June 1926 Birmingham South district
see replies 15 & 16
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aghadowey
This all fits with the little bits I know. Ida did not leave Ireland - (she was adopted and became my aunt). Ida isn't alive today - but you won't find her death on the databases yet, as she only passed away a few months ago.
When Gladys died you meant 1989 didn't you (not 1899)?
I would still love to know how George and Martha met and married?
Thank-you very much for all your efforts - you have cleared up lots of questions.
Dermot
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Sorry for the typo- Gladys Pask died 1999 (have corrected the date in earlier post).
Will post more later.
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Just to confuse things a bit further I checked Belfast burial database-
http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialrecords/search.asp
Only 2 Scattergoods-
- George, age 82, of 53 Castlereagh St., died 6 Sept.1964- Roselawn Cemetery grave C1881
- Mrs. Anne, age 78, same address, died 6 Mar.1969- same grave
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That is our George - some time ago I found a rental agreement (in his name) dated 1909 for 53 Castlereagh St.
So he didn't leave Ireland!
As I could not find his business after Martha died I felt he must have left the country.
Dermot
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Well, at least that eliminates the English death I found :)
There might have been death notices in one of the Belfast papers when George died in 1964- perhaps Anne was a 2nd wife? Newspaper Library at Central Library probably best place to search.
Another idea is a Will- PRONI online Will Extracts only go up to 1940s but later books will be available at PRONI- although there's no guarantee either of them left a Will or had an estate administered.
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/will_calendars.htm
Belfast directories might list them but will probably not give you much details- unfortunately online ones don't go much past 1900.
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1891 Census- 23 Bridgewater Ave., Salford, Lancashire, England
Class: RG12; Piece: 3221; Folio 86; Page 28; GSU roll: 6098331
William Scattergood, 40, b.Salford, polisher furniture cab[ine]t
wife Frances Scattergood, 38, b.Mirfield Yorkshire
son William T. Scattergood, 10, b.Salford, scholar
son George F. Scattergood, 9, b.Salford, scholar
daughter Annie G. Scattergood, 6, b.Salford, scholar
daughter Edith E. Scattergood, 4, b.Salford
son Herbert H. Scattergood, 1, b.Salford
1901 Census- 65 Ellor? St., Salford, Lancashire
Class: RG13; Piece: 3733; Folio: 84; Page: 24
William Scattergood, 50, b.Salford, furniture packer
wife Frances Scattergood, 48, b.Mirfield Yorkshire
son William T. Scattergood, 21, b.Salford, French polisher
son George F. Scattergood, 19, b.Salford, cabinet maker
daughter Annie G. Scattergood, 16, b.Salford, weaver? (calico)
daughter Edith E. Scattergood, 14, b.Salford, dressmakers appren[tice]
son Herbert H. Scattergood, 11, b.Salford
Marriage: William Scattergood July/Sept.1877 Salford 8d65 (Frances Tattersall on same page)
Birth: William Tattersall Scattergood, Apr./June 1990 Salford 8d174
Birth: Annie Gertrude Scattergood July/Sept.1884 Salford 8d162
Marriage? Scattergood Annie G Apr/June 1914 Salford 8d155 (groom Harold Kinley, twins born 1915)
Birth: Herbert Henry Scattergood, Apr./June 1890 Salford 8d126 (possible marriage, birth of son on Free BMD)
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Hi Aghadowey
If you don't have this info:-
Frances Tattersall, she is the daughter of William Tattersall and Alice nee Irlam.
Frances was born in Mirfield Yorkshire, her father was sent there for a short time when he was a policeman.
Are you following the Tattersall family ? if so I have another 2 generations that you might want.
Ann
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It was fastfreddie that started the topic and I was just helping find information.
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Sorry, thanks for letting me know, fastfreddie will probably read my post and post a reply if he wants the Tattersall infomation.
Kind regards
Ann
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Ann
Thanks but I am not really following the Tattersall family, my interest is in the Gillow family. The link to the Scattergood family is because one of the children - George - moved over to Belfast in 1900/01 and eventually married Martha Gillow (her family came from nr Poyntzpass). At this point the tree becomes a little complex as it involves an adoption of one of their offspring. It was this branch that aghadowey very kindly helped me sort out.
Thanks again
Dermot
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Just trying to trace family roots and was wondering what the connection was with the scattergood and gillow families,I have been to a grave near poyntspass both names are on headstone ,I have read some posts and now see the connection but still wonder how they are related to my family(also Gillow) of ballyhoy,brootly Armagh,
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Hello. I’ve just come across your post. My husband knows a little of this family.
Annie scattergood married a Liggett and lived in Acton poyntzpass. Her sister Martha Caroline gillow married George scattergood. Martha was a seamstress in Belfast and may have met George there.
They had Gladys, Bernie and Ida. Martha died during the birth of Ida. Her sister Annie left Acton and went to Belfast on the train and brought the baby home to Acton.
Ida was called Ida Liggett. Not sure if officially adopted. My mum went to poyntzpass primary school with her.
Ida married a George McCann and had 2 children George and Elizabeth who are still alive and living in portadown.
When Ida was about 14 her father George came from Belfast to take her home as she was on working age!! My husbands grandfather supposedly chased him!!
The father George remarried and had a daughter Kathleen Francis I think in Manchester.
Gladys married Pask. My husband used to visit her in Hove and he went to her funeral many years ago.
This is all I know
Hope it helps.
Lorna
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Noticed a spelling error sons name was Herbie.
Herbie scattergood lived in Belfast, inherited a farm near corcrum poyntzpass but sold it!! Married someone called hazel from Dublin.
Then he went to England. Bolton we think. Buried in England though his name on a heAdstone at Tyrone’s ditches poyntzpass.
Herbie had a son and 2 daughters.
Kathleen Francis died age 12 from scarlet fever.
Lorna
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Hello,
Just wanted to clear up some facts on George Fredrick Scattergood.
I am related to George's 2nd wife Ann O'Connor.
Martha Scattergood did not die in childbirth but a few weeks after Ida was born.
Martha's family came and took Ida away to live with them on the day that Martha was buried.
George still had his other 3 children in his care and wanted Ida with them too. However, despite numerous attempts by George to bring Ida back home, and NOT when she was of work age but from when she was a baby, Martha's family did in fact chase him when he went to see his daughter and they refused for some reason that only they know but George had his own thoughts regarding.
George remarried 2 years after Martha's death and did have a daughter with his 2nd wife but her name is not Kathleen Francis, as Lorna states, she is called Alice Joan.
The 3 children from the first marriage lived with George, his 2nd wife and their daughter Alice Joan. Gladys lived with her father and stepmother until she left home to go live in England when she was 35 years old which would suggest that she was quite happy with them.
Herbie visited his father twice a month whilst he lived in Northern Ireland.
George Scattergood was a hard working man who did all he could to support his family and he loved them all dearly.
If this happened today I daresay Martha's family would not get away with removing Ida from her family home.
In fact it was cruel in a way that she didn't know her siblings or her half sister.
There are always two sides to every story and I feel I have to tell the facts and not have a good decent man vilified by hearsay.