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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: akoenen2 on Wednesday 08 June 11 17:19 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone,
I have a few stories that connect my ancestor William Thomas Pulleyblank to a woman named Florence, who was supposedly related to the Dukes of Bedford.
Here is one version of this story..
In the late 1850's to early 1860's William Thomas Pulleyblank worked as a game keeper on the Woburn Albey Sands Estate. The ancestral home of the Dukes of Bedford - Family Surname Russell. In about 1860 he eloped with Florence, who was related to the Russell family. They married and settled in Chichister, on the southeast coast of England where their son William Thomas Pulleyblank was born October 1861. Sadly Florence died not long after his birth, and the Duke allured William to return to Woburn Abbey and resume his old job, where he eventually married again, and had another son, who his new wife insisted on naming William Thomas, and the son of Florence had to go by the second name of Tom. His step mother disliked him so much that at the age of 13 he ran away to sea and joined the Royal Marines.
When serving in Plymouth, Devon he eventually met Bessie Kitson, of Ivybridge - a nearby small town. They subsequently married and settled at 53 North Street, Plymouth - a home which has survived the german bombing and is still lived in today.
Tom, (as his wife called him) and Bessie had many children, Bessie was born in 1863.
William Thomas Pulleyblank was born on October 1st, 1861 according to my great grandma's cousin in England.
I have a birth certificate for William Thomas Pulleyblank but it lists December 1860 for his birthday instead. The father was listed as William Pulleyblank, and listed the mother as "Mary Ann Rider" rather than the name Florence.
I showed this to the England cousin and she said the birth certificate was for Mary Ann Rider's son, William Thomas who took the name Pulleyblank when she married William Pulleyblank Sr. making there be two William Thomas's, one born in 1860 and one in 1861.
Now, theres another version of this story attached below. It doesn't mention anything of a Florence, which I find a bit weird. It was written by my great grandma, not the England cousin though it says some info came from our England cousin.
This is very confusing.
Any help sorting this out would be appreciated!
I have another page of info which explains some things which I will attach in the post below.
Thanks,
Alex from Iowa, USA
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Here is the 'explanation story'.
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IN 1861 mistranscribed as Polyblank.At Lupridge, North Huish, Devon
William Polyblank 27 head Ag Lab b North Huish
Ann Polyblank 28 wife b Avestrongifford
Sarah Polyblank 3 dau b " "
Mary Polyblank 2 dau b " "
William Polyblank 4 Mths son b North Huish
RG9/1420 folio 85 page 4
Carol
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Can't see the family anywhere in 1871,but by 1881 William Thomas Pulleyblank is 19 and a Private in the Royal Marines Light Infantry.
Based at Stoke Damerel, Devon on board a ship called the Briton.
It say he was born in Torquay.
Rg11/ 2214 folio 117 page 5
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The only birth around 1860/61 ish for a Wm Pulleyblank is the one Carol has traced - William Thomas born Totnes reg District (Devon) in Oct/Nov/Dec 1860
This is miles away from Woburn which is in Bedfordshire
And I see that in the second document you show someone says they have looked in the Record Office at Chichester - well, that covers West Sussex! So I am not surprised that nothing was found .....
It is not tying up is it?
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Yes, that's the 1861 census we have for William Sr. and Mary Ann (Rider) Pulleyblank.
Here's what else I have on him.
In 1869, Mary Ann (Rider) dies.
In 1871, William Pulleyblank (sr.) was recorded as a Farm Servant with the Luscombe family in Balterscombe, Ugborough, Devon, England.
In 1881, William Pulleyblank (sr.) was recorded as an Ag Labourer living with his brother George at Aldsworth Hill, Westbourne, Sussex, England --this is near Chichester, the birthplace in question of my great great great grandpa William Thomas Pulleyblank b.1861
In April 1881 William Pulleyblank marries Mary Anne Oakley at Westbourne, Sussex, England.
In 1891, he was recorded as an Agricultural Labourer with his wife Mary A, a cook, in the Anna L Pearse home at Little Hilliers, Stopham, Sussex, England.
In 1901, he was recorded as a Jobbing Gardener, with his wife Mary Ann, a domestic cook, boarding with Anna L Pearse at Station Road, Wavendon, Buckinghamshire,
England. --a few miles from the Woburn Abbey
In 1911, he was as a Jobbing gardener, with his wife Mary Ann at Alms Houses, Woburn Sands, Buckinghamshire, England. --still close by to the Woburn Abbey
It sparks my interest that he moved all the way from North Huish/Plymouth area to the Chichester area, then to the Woburn area....
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IN 1891 William is married.
At 2 Catherine Street,St Andrew Plymough Devon.
William Pulleyblank 30 head 30 labourer b North Huish
Bessie wife 28 b Yealmpton Devon
Florence A dau 2 b Plymouth
Winnifred (H or M) dau 8 months b Plymouth
RG12/ 1726 folio 25 page 43.
Marriage...
Marriages Jun 1885
KITSON Bessie Stoke Damerel 5b 606
Pulleyblank William Thomas Stoke Damerel 5b 606
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This is miles away from Woburn which is in Bedfordshire
Quite near to where I live ;)
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In 1881, William Pulleyblank (sr.) was recorded as an Ag Labourer living with his brother George at Aldsworth Hill, Westbourne, Sussex, England --this is near Chichester, the birthplace in question of my great great great grandpa William Thomas Pulleyblank b.1861
Using the Free website http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ doesn't give you any more William Pulleyblanks b in 1861 ,the only one is the one born 1860 in Devon.
It is very much a Devon based surname,but I have foudn him in Westbourne in 1881 as a widower living with his brother ...........a butler no less!!!
Carol
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Now here's what I have on my 3x great grandpa William Thomas Pulleyblank.
In 1871, he was recorded as age 10, a scholar at Totnes Union Workhouse, Totnes, Devon, England.
In 1885 he married Bessie Kitson, daughter of Richard Bounty Kitson. He was listed as 24 years old, so thats confusing as far as the birth year... He would've been listed as 25 if he was born in 1860.
In 1891 they have their children Florence and Winifred.
In 1901 they have Florence, Daisy, William, Minnie (my gr gr grandma), Gladys, and Irene.
In 1911 he was a warehouse man, with his wife Bessie, children Florence Annie, Daisy Ellen, William Kitson, Minnie Jane, Gladys Bessie, Mary Irene, Elise May and Dorothy Frances at 53 North Street in Plymouth.
William Thomas's birth is in the Kingsbridge area in those records.
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He certainly DID join the Royal Marines but that was nothing to do with not liking his step mother as for the next 10 or more years his dad was single and living in Sussex!
How old was Bessie on marriage? He may have knocked a year off to appear nearer in age to her.
Actually what date did they marry- his birthday wasn't till the end of the year,so he'd still be 24 for most of 1885 ;D
Carol
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In 1871 in the Totnes workhouse, it looks like William Jnr had a sister Kate - born 1862 Kingsbridge.
She married in 1889 in Tunbridge, Kent to Walter Nickalls and in 1891 they were living in Ashford, Kent with son Walter (age 1). Walter snr was a baker.
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I showed this to the England cousin and she said the birth certificate was for Mary Ann Rider's son, William Thomas who took the name Pulleyblank when she married William Pulleyblank Sr. making there be two William Thomas's, one born in 1860 and one in 1861.
William and Mary Ann Rider were married in 1855 before his birth in 1860/61
Marriages June qtr 1855 Totnes reg district ref 5b 333
POLLYBLANK William
RIDER Mary Ann
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Sorry, Alex, but could you please clarify something. I've been trying to follow this as closely as I can, but I'm getting confused! Your first post says that WTP Snr worked on the Woburn estate in the late 1850s/early 1860s and that in about 1860 he eloped with Florence. We have him in the 1861 census in Devon with wife Ann and 3 children. This would tie in with his marriage to Mary Anne in 1855 in Devon. All 3 children were born in Devon. So am I right in thinking that WTP Snr worked on the Duke's land in Devon (not at Woburn Abbey)?
Can't quite see how he could have eloped with a lady called Florence, when at that time he seems to have been 'actively' married to Mary Anne/Ann.
Apologies if I've missed something..but would appreciate clarification. Thanks - Dazey
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Dazey,
That's exactly what I've been thinking about whilst cooking( and burning!) my dinner.
Carol
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The Dukes of Bedford owned ( and probably still do own) great chunks of land in Devon.
There is a statue erected to one of them in Tavistock.
http://www.britaininfocus.org.uk/gallery/landmarks/statues--monuments---memorials/00449-francis-duke-of-bedford-statue-tavistock/
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Akoenen 2 You are going to have, until you can prove otherwise to treat the family stories as works of fiction.
I know what I am talking about, just google 'Jennings millions' to see the worldwide family stories about some of my supposed ancestors.
What you need is to do the usual family history thing of working backwards and obtaining proof of every event of every generation.
Do you have birth, marriage and death certificates?
You can order them online and they will be posted anywhere in the world.
They cost the equivilent of £9.25 each. ( you will be charged in your own currency)
This is the website you need.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
It is the only way to go.
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Wise words, jaywit.
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Would you know if there are any other types of payment that the General Register Office takes rather than a credit card? I don't own one.
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Would you know if there are any other types of payment that the General Register Office takes rather than a credit card? I don't own one.
That is the beauty of that website they take credit card payments from anywhere in the world. Do you have a relative whose card you could use?
Carol
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Would you know if there are any other types of payment that the General Register Office takes rather than a credit card? I don't own one.
Do you have a Visa debit card, ie. one that takes money directly from a bank account since they do take those too?
Sadly the story sounds a bit like one an ex-work colleague told me about a few year's back when she said her ancestor was supposed to be the child of a gardener and the daughter of a big house (a bit like a la Lady Chatterly's lover) who had been placed with a labourer's family in the village. When I took a look at the baptisms for her the child was a middle one for a couple who had quite a few over a long period of time! How it got so twisted over time is anybody's guess but I think the ancestor had married someone of a higher social standing and this probably was her way to justify her lowly beginnings ;)
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I'm only 15... so I don't own a debit card either... Or any piece of plastic that can be charged money :-\
I'm guessing they won't take PayPal, Check or Cash... But I sent an email off to them asking anyway.
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How on earth do you get money out of your bank account without a debit card though? Hope they can help,but I fear from their website that they may not be able to.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
Carol
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I'm only 15... so I don't own a debit card either... Or any piece of plastic that can be charged money :-\
I'm guessing they won't take PayPal, Check or Cash... But I sent an email off to them asking anyway.
Could you not get a relative with some form of card to pay and give them the money?
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Do you have a relative whose card you could use?
Carol
That's what I said earlier Smudwhisk ;D
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Must be getting late, missed your comment ;D
Never hurts re-raising a good point in case it got missed ....
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Akeonen2 Start and use the powers of lateral thinking here.
Any occasions coming up when you are due presents?
Birthday, good exam results?
If anyone asks you what you would like say BMD certificates.
If they would give you cash could you perhaps then ask your Mom or someone to order them using their card and you would give them the cash.
If you do decide to order online ask on here and someone will talk you through the process, it can be slightly confusing the first time you order.