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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: Helen Bedford on Thursday 09 June 11 09:21 BST (UK)
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Hi
Would like to make contact with anyone researching the family of George Richards & Elizabeth Hartop who married in Bedford in 1788, to find out more about them.
Helen
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What details about them are you are looking for, and what do you already know?
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Hi
All I know about them at the moment is what I found on the IGI, plus some other research.
I have found several possible children in Bedford, Cople, Cardington & Potton between 1789 & 1804
A possible baptism for Elizabeth in 1773 in Bolnhurst, Bedfordshire
I have a possible baptism for George in Cople in 1760 from my own research
Plus possible deaths in Potton(1813) & Cardington(1799) for Elizabeth, and Cardington(1835) for George in Findmypast.
Would like to try and tie some of it together if possible and find out what happened to them.
Helen
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Sundry entries taken from PR transcripts (pre 1813) and the NBI (post 1812)
Burials
George Richards son of George & Elizabeth at Cardington 23 Nov 1793
George Richards age 35 at Cardington on 12 May 1830
George Richards age 75 on 29 May 1835 at Cardington
Elizabeth dau of George & Elizabeth on 8 Apr 1799 at Cardington
Joseph Richards age 70 at Cardington on 16 Sept 1813
Baptisms at Cardington show no additional detail to what's on the IGI.
The were no Richards living in Cardington in the 1782 Inhabitants of Cardington.
A Judith Richards had what appears to be an illegitimate son, George, baptised in Potton on 14 Dec 1814, and a member submission on the IGI (not to be relied on) shows she married William Tear in Potton on 10 Jan 1814. The date looks iffy and I'd like to see it confirmed. William 50 and Judith 48 Tear were living in Potton in 1841 and there's a burial of Judith Tear in Potton on 5 Sept 1841 aged 50, which just about ties up with Judith baptised in Cople on 6 Oct 1791. It would therefore tend to support the notion that George and Elizabeth moved from Cople to Cardington to Potton and possibly dropped into Bedford on the way. The only other Richards burial in Potton was Mary Richards aged 27 on 25 March 1829, which seems to be the Mary baptised at Cardington on 19 March 1802.
Naomi Richards born in Potton in 1804 seems to disappear. I wonder if she was the Naomi Richards, a pauper from the workhouse, whose daughter Jane was baptised at St Martin in the Fields, Middlesex, on 29 May 1830. In 1841 there's a Jane Richards, 11 not born in Beds a servant in the household of Joseph & Mary Clifton living in George St, which might be her. Or it might not!
A Cordelia Richards married Thomas Horley at St Marylebone on 14 Nov 1813. Looks to be the right one as in 1861 there's a Cordelia Horley widow 71 b Bedford living in Paddington
David
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The 1782 census of Cardington shows a Hartop family living in Cardington, but I can't see an Elizabeth of the right age.
I see the 1773 baptism in Bolnhurst gives her age as 11, which fits roughly with her burial age of 50 in 1813
Still working on it
David
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Hi
Thanks for your info, I think its beginning to tie together!
I have also been doing more digging and found out more about the Tear family. It seems that Judith's son Richard went to Stoke, Nelson in New Zealand in 1852 as I found a thread mentioning her in NZ Rootschat, her son Jacob ended up in the Old Bailey as a bankrupt in 1864, finally died in Cambridge in 1898.
The George Richards born 1813, became George Tear and went to live in Cambridgeshire, dying there in 1874. There is also some Quarter Session Rolls regarding "Recognizances: Wm. Tear, Potton, bricklayer; bastardy. W. JUDITH RICHARDS"!
I would like to tie the Richards children together but I don't think that will be possible with any great certainty to (for example) to tie Cordelia with Judith or Naomi, so might have to settle for best guess.
Helen
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From the Bolnhurst PR transcript baptisms
Oct 17 1773 Elizabeth illegitimate daughter of Mary Hartop now Elms aged 11
on same day is Catherine daughter of Francis & Mary Elms. blacksmith
Francis Elms married Mary Hartop of Keysoe on 11 Oct 1769 by licence
Mary, wife of Francis Elmes, blacksmith is buried 15 July 1776
As per the banns dated on 14 Feb 1779 Francis Elms, blacksmith widower married Hannah Withrow of Eaton Socon
& on 27 Feb 1780 Francis & Hannah Elmes baptised daughter Elizabeth
but Francis already has a step daughter name Elizabeth
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Have you seen the St Peters Bedford 31 Aug 1788 marriage entry to check if Ellizabeth Hartop came from elsewhere ?
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The BLARS online catalogue at http://blars.adlibsoft.com/ has two Removal Orders of George Richards - from Potton to Cardington in 1827 and from Biggleswade to Cardington in 1830. That firmly links George to Cardington and Potton. Cople and Cardington are adjoining so I have no doubt that it's the same George in those two parishes. The only baptism that might be considered doubtful is Cordelia in Bedford, but as Cardington is only just outside Bedford I think you're on pretty safe ground in assuming it's the same couple in the absence of another George/Elizabeth marriage.
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David; the Beds parish poor law papers index also has in 1827 a George Richards senior removed from Potton to Cardington. Is he the father of George baptised at Cardington 20 Sept 1795.
There is also an Examination entry for George Richards at Bedford St Paul in 1789
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That's how I read it John. The Settlement Examination might prove illuminating
Helen, more pieces of the jigsaw are now falling into place.
In addition to the illegitimate William, Judith also baptised Henry Richards on the same day in Potton, who also may have subsequently taken the Tear name. He may have been the Henry Tear aged 25 buried at Potton on 8 Mar 1837
But of more interest is the illegitimate Sarah Richards baptised on 12 Feb 1809 at Potton, daughter of ........ Cordelia! Thus firmly linking Cordelia baptised in Bedford and her presence in Potton with the rest of the Richards family.
The more I see of the children of George and Elizabeth the more convinced I am that Cople, Cardington, Bedford and Potton are the same couple.
David
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I've been looking at the Hartop family living in Cardington in 1782, but haven't come up with anything concrete. The family was headed by Essex Hartop, age 43, born Keysoe (a mile up the road from Bolnhurst where Elizabeth, illegitimate daughter of Mary Hartop, was baptised.
Essex and his wife Elizabeth Urine (he really was taking the ....) née Billen married in Cardington on 29 March 1763, with children baptised in March 1764, Jul 1765, Sep 1766 and May 1772. It doesn't look as though Elizabeth Hartop could have been Essex's daughter. But Mary Hartop, mother of the Elizabeth baptised in Bolnhurst, may have been baptised at Keysoe on 29 March 1741 - it's a member submission on the IGI so needs to be checked. Unfortunately Keysoe parish register appears to be deficient c1740. Mary died in 1776, and I can find no subsequent trace of Elizabeth. But IF Essex and Mary were siblings then could Elizabeth have gone to stay with her uncle, rather than live with her stepfather and his new wife, after the death of her mother?
I must confess I was a bit sniffy to start with about Elizabeth being the one baptised in Bolnhurst, but I'm warming to the idea now!
As John says, what was Elizabeth's parish of residence on her marriage?
David
Later
Essex Hartop age 77 was buried at Cardington on 9 Feb 1813
There was also an Essick Hartop living in Keysoe in the 1803 Muster List, unmarried Class 1 ie aged between 17 and 30. He was baptised in Keysoe on 3 Oct 1779, son of Thomas & Sarah. Not sure what he's got to do with the price of bananas!
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There is also an Examination entry for George Richards at Bedford St Paul in 1789
A2A has the examination as follows
"Geo. Richards, wheelwright. Born Cople, s. of Geo., late of same. Served his apprenticeship with Sam. Pierton of Cardington, wheelwright. Married 6 months before to Eliz. Hartrop, St. Peters, and is now living in St. Pauls. [Marked "N"] 1789"
And St Pauls is where Cordelia was baptised in 1789
That seems to have sorted out the Richards. Wish the Hartops were as simple.
David
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Hi Guys
Cheers!! Thanks very much for all that info, that really has sorted out the problem of the Richards.
I did wonder why it looked like Elizabeth died in Potton and George died back in Cardington again, but the removal order would explain that.
Thanks again
Helen
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There is a Keysoe PR baptism of Mary, daughter of Thomas & Sarah Hartop (or Hartupp), farmer on 29 Mar 1741 & she could be the one who married Francis Elms at Bolnhurst. Thomas & Sarah were baptising children there between 1735 - 1750 & Thomas is buried 7 Feb 1780. I cannot find the marriage as there are no entries 1732 - 1734 in the reqister.
There is a subsequent Thomas who first married Judith Flanders (age 20) on 18 Feb 1760; & when she died (buried 3 May 1754) Thomas married Sarah Sabey at Bolnhurst on 2 Oct 1771. These had son 'Esseck' baptised on 3 Oct 1779. These also had a daughter Mary baptised 3 Apr 1774 but I think she was the spinster buried at Keysoe on 9 Aug 1804.
I cannot find the baptism of this subsequent Thomas but suspect he is son of the first Thomas & Sarah. Again there are no register entries for 1732-1734. However a Bolnhurst baptism on 7 May 1757 is of John Hartop, the supposed son of Thomas Hartop of Keysoe Row and Mary Fenham of this parish, spinster.
John
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There are 3 probate records (Admons) at Beds Archives for Thomas Hartop of Keysoe.
1753/14 husbandman - he's most likely the Thomas Hartop, senior buried 1 Jan 1752, husband of Ellen
1757/9 he's the one buried 17 Mar 1757, son of the above, husband of Ellen Sarah & father of the below & Essex (found in Cardington in 1782) & Mary (who married Francis Elms)
1780/5 farmer - he's the one buried 7 Feb 1780 listed as farmer & churchwarden - likely the one who married Sarah Sabey
It'd be well worth taking a look at these.
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As you know John, I'm partial to the Beds Sabeys! I have Sarah Sabey and Thomas Hartopp + their kids in my tree. The penny hadn't dropped yesterday that I had some Hartops! Sarah was an unbaptised daughter of John Sabey, a non conformist. Fortunately he left a will naming his son in law Thomas Hartopp and daughter Sarah Hartopp - will found the last time we were at BLARS together
I think Thomas, who married firstly in 1760, was probably born late 1730s and was probably the brother of Essex who pitched up in Cardington. And Thomas named his son Esseck for his brother. At least that's my take on the situation! The wills might confirm this.
David
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The 31 Aug 1788 St Peter's Bedford marriage has that George Richards was from Cople & Elizabeth Hartop must have been otp. However it was by licence; & the licence index dated 30 Aug 1788 confirms George Richards was from Cople, he was age 21+ & a wheelwright and that Elizabeth Hartop was of St Peter'. Surety was given by William Coombs, limemaker of Bedford
At Keysoe, 18 Feb 1760 Thomas Hartupp farmer of Keysoe married Judith Flanders age 20 by licence with parent's consent. On the same day John Coombs, widower of Bedford St Paul's married Sarah Hartupp of Keysoe, spinster by licence. However these marriages are not in the licence index.
It seems that Thomas & Sarah are siblings; Sarah baptised on 20 Feb 1736 at Keysoe, daughter of Thomas & Sarah Hartop.
In Bedford St Paul's baptisms on 23 Apr 1765 is William Coombs son of John & Sarah Coombs. They also baptised daughter Ann on 6 Feb 1763 where John's occupation is lime burner.
So it is pointing to the Elizabeth Hartop of Bolnhurst - although that has not been said.
John - more later
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more marriage licence info ....
17 Sep 1759 George Richards of Cople, widower, tailor to marry Sarah Saville of Cople aged 28; surety by Edmund Morgan, Blacksmith of Cople
6 Mar 1748/9 George Richards of Cople Cardington, widower, tailor to marry Mary Seaby of Elstow aged 26; surety by Robert Jones victualler of Elstow.
Note . from Elstow PR marriages they've transcribed her name as SEELY
However ... under that SEABY name on licence dated 1 Oct 1771 for Thomas Hartop farmer of Keysoe aged 36 to marry Sarah Seaby of Bolnhurst aged 24; surety given by Dan Worship of Eynesbury, Hunts
more later ...
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+ + marriage licence dated 7 June 1783; Sarah Hartop, widow of Keysoe to marry Abraham Fisher, farmer of Keysoe; surety by James Duncombe, farmer of Gt Barford.
Sarah being wife of Thomas Hartop who died 1780. Abraham Fisher was buried 2 Apr 1789 & left will ref 1790/5, Widow Sarah Fisher was buried 20 July 1806 & left will 1806/25 & inventory ref 4/203; wonder if it mentions her Hartop children.
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Hi Guys
My interest in the Richards family is that on 10 Feb 1757 George Richards married Elizabeth Palmer, daughter of Samuel Palmer & Elizabeth Purser (both family names of mine), but the marriage did not last long as she seems to have died in childbirth as there was a daughter baptised 16 Nov 1757 and Elizabeth was buried 17 Nov 1757.
What seems curious to me about George Richards is that when he married Mary in 1749 he was aged 32, a tailor, a widower and married by licence. in 1757 he is a widower again, but this time he victualler and married by banns. Finally when he married Sarah Seville in 1759 he was a widower but back to being a tailor and being married by licence!
John, you seem very knowledgeable about Bedfordshire records, do you have a special site or sites where you find the info?
Helen
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John, you seem very knowledgeable about Bedfordshire records, do you have a special site or sites where you find the info?
Yes it's the Bedford reference library - not everything is online don't you know.
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Re the Purser name connection - another marriage licence I noted yesterday dated 4 Apr 1788 of Mary Hartop of Cardington aged 21+ to marry at St Paul's Bedford a William Purser, tailor of St Paul's aged 21+; surety given by Joseph Barker, cabinet maker of Bedford.
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Hi John
Thanks but not one of mine, unfortunately.
I know not everything is online, but it's nice to dream!
Helen
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So George Richards had four wives;
1. Before 1749. The only possibility seems to be at Wilstead on 17 Jul 1740 to Elizabeth Lamont. Two sons were subsequently baptised in Cardington, and an Elizabeth Richards, wife of George was buried at Cardington on 14 Nov 1747. The only Richards entry in Wilstead PR is this marriage.
2. 1749 George Richards of Cardington, widower, 32, tailor to marry Mary Seaby of Elstow aged 26. Mary Richards wife of George Richards was buried at Cople on 14 Aug 1755
3. Elizabeth Palmer at Willington on 10 Feb 1757 to George Richards widower victualler. She was buried on 18 Nov 1757 at Cople, wife of George, after childbirth.
4. Sarah Saville at Cople on 9 Oct 1759. George Richards, widower, tailor
George appears to have been baptised at Cople on 20 Oct 1717, son of Joseph and Mary. BLARS holds a will of George Richards of Cople victualler, proved in 1778 ref 1778/25
David
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The Mary Hartop of Cardington who married William Purser in 1788 could be the daughter of Essex & Elizabeth Hartop who baptised her there on 20 July 1765. The William Purser could be the son of Francis & Mary Purser baptised at St Pauls on 26 Jan 1766. If you search back a generation or two it would not surprise me that there was a family connection to Elizabeth Purser who married at Renhold in 1723.
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Good moaning John. A bright and sunny bank holiday Monday here in France
The Mary Hartop of Cardington who married William Purser in 1788 could be the daughter of Essex & Elizabeth Hartop who baptised her there on 20 July 1765.
This is the conclusion reached by the editor of The Inhabitants of Cardington in 1782
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From the Admon & Inventory of Sarah Fisher who died intestate in 1806. She was the widow of Abraham Fisher who died 1789, who married her in 1783 as the widow if Thomas Hartop (died 1780) who he married as Sarah Sabey in 1771.
The estate valued no more than £450 has the Admon assigned to John Hartop of Keysoe, Yeoman, son of Sarah Fisher. The Inventory dated 22 July 1806 details all livestock (including 360 sheep or lambs at £1 each) & crops in the fields & has this closing statement. It is agreed by the children of the late Sarah Fisher that their brother John Hartop should take the effects in this inventory & that he and his brother Essex should be jointly responsible for the payment to their brethren & sisters - who do sign below.
John Hartop, James Hartop, Essesk Hartop.
Elizabeth Fisher, Sarah Fisher, George Fisher
The Hartop childrens' baptisms are recorded 1775, 1777 & 1779 but I cannot find the Fisher children. As Abraham was a bachelor when he married these must have been produced between 1783 & 1789. There is a marriage on 1 June 1806 of Elizabeth Fisher to James Reynolds who was one witness to the children's signing on the inventory.
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Notice that on the above Inventory there is not a mention of son Thomas Hartop, who was baptised 1772. However he does get a mention in the will of Abraham Fisher, farmer of Keysoe Row who died in 1789 where it discharges & releases & exonerates Thomas Hartop, eldest son of my wife Sarah from repayment of mortgage....& talks about 4 acres of land at Keysoe, now the property of the aforesaid Thomas Hartop as heir at law of his father Thomas Hartop of Keysoe Row, Yeoman.
So did Sarah's son Thomas die between 1789 & 1806 ? or just went away ?
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From Admon dated 30 Jun 1753 of Thomas Hartop, senior who was buried 1/1/1752
Eleanor Hartupp, widow of Keysoe above the age of fourscore hereby renounce by right of Adminastring my late husband Thomas Hartup of Keysoe, husbandman, & grant letters of Admon to my only son Thomas Hartupp of Keysoe. One of the witnesses was Robert Flanders farmer, who most likely is father of Judy/ith Flanders baptised 2/8/1740, who at age 20 was first wife of the Thomas Hartop who is son of the above Thoimas Hartop.
Ellen Hartop was buried 13/4/1757 & was the Ellen Smith who married Thomas H on 6/4/1700.
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From Admon dated 18/6/1757 of Thomas Hartop who was buried 17/3/1757
To appease provisionally Sarah Hartop of Keysoe, she is widow & next of kin of Thomas Hartop late of Keysoe, husbandman, who died intestate.
There is a subsequent marriage of Sarah Hartop, widow of Keysoe to John Sinkfield, widow at Thurleigh on 16 Aug 1763
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From Admon dated 18/4/1780 of Thomas Hartop of Keysoe who was buried 7/2/1780 & died intestate.
The estate of £300 to Sarah Hartop of Keysoe, widow
Witnesses William Peppercorn, farmer of Bolnhurst and William Sabey, famer of Keysoe
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So the Elizabeth Hartop (1762) who married George Richards was illegitimate daughter of Mary Hartop (1741) who married Francis Elms, who was daughter of Thomas Hartop (1710) & wife Sarah unknown. This Thomas being only son of Thomas Hartop (c 1670) & wife Ellen Smith.
Thomas Hartop & Sarah ? also had son Thomas (c 1738) who first married Judith Flanders & then Sarah Sabey; and had son Essex (c 1739) who married Elizabeth Urin, widow at Cardington in 1763.
Enough for now.
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Going over my notes and trying to clarify some things I found this old thread.
But IF Essex and Mary (Hartop) were siblings then could Elizabeth have gone to stay with her uncle, rather than live with her stepfather and his new wife, after the death of her mother?Later
Essex Hartop age 77 was buried at Cardington on 9 Feb 1813
There was also an Essick Hartop living in Keysoe in the 1803 Muster List, unmarried Class 1 ie aged between 17 and 30. He was baptised in Keysoe on 3 Oct 1779, son of Thomas & Sarah. Not sure what he's got to do with the price of bananas!
I wonder if Essex Hartop from Cardington may have also lived in Colmworth and also married Mary Jordon at Elstow Beds and had a son with Mary in Cardington before he was buried there in 1813?
Essex and his wife Elizabeth Urine née Billen married in Cardington on 29 March 1763, with children baptised in Cardington
Thomas Hartop bap Mar 1764, Mary Hartop bap Jul 1765 , Joseph Hartop bap Sep 1766, Pheobe Hartop bap Sep 1766.
Was Essex later in Colnworth?
Joseph Billing Hartop bap May 1772 Colnworth s of Essex and Elizabeth
NB Essex Hartop wife Elizabeth nee Billen. This son Joseph had the given name of Billing, was this from his mothers maiden name?
Did Essex move briefly back to Colmworth. Is this the reason Essex left Colmworth?;
Essex Hartop a Farmer of Colmwowrth committed to Debtors Cells 4 Jan 1772 discharged 4 Apr 1772.
This could not be Essex born 1779 the son of Thomas and Sarah Hartop. Perhaps a different Essex Hartop but surely there cannot be too many with a name like that! And with the baptism of Joseph Billing Hartop in Colnworth???
Is there a burial for Elizabeth Hartop in Colnworth or Cardington from 1772-1793?
Did Essex remarry before he died in 1813 aged 77?
Essex Hartop married Mary Jordon 24 Dec 1793 at Elstow Beds
Then Joseph Hartop bap 1794 Cardington s of Essex and Mary.
The other Essex Hartop the son of Thomas Hartop and Sarah Sabey was bap in 1779 at Keysoe.
As you said he was unmarried on the Muster list in Keysoe in 1803 so did not marry Mary Jordan in 1793 (and he would have been too young)
BUT Essex Hartop born 1779 Keysoe however could have married;
Essex Hartop bach otp married Ann Tilsley spins married 16 Oct 1810 Cripplegate London (The Dissenters Registration for births was in Cripplegate were Essex brother John of Keysoe registered the births of his children) both make their marks the witness were William Sutton and Sarah Sutton both signed
Did Essex die;
Essex Hartopp of Royal Hill aged 49 born 1780 (age agrees with baptism in Keysoe) buried 24 Dec 1829 at Greenwich St Alphege.
In 1841 living in Greenwich is Ann Hartop born 1781 Not Kent with her son George? Was she Essex Hartops widow?
Did they also have a son John Hartop bap 1811 Greenwich Kent s of Essex and Ann
Back to the elder Essex Hartop
If Essex Hartop buried at Cardington was aged 77 in 1813 he was born 1736. If Thomas Hartop was born 1838 and Mary Hartop was born 1741 they were similar ages. Perhaps as you suggest they were siblings.
Strangely, although I have a note of a baptism for Mary Hartop on 29 March 1741 at Keysoe d Thomas and Sarah (who married Francis Elms) I could not find this on IGI. Do you have this baptism?
Thos Hartop farmer of Keysoe aged 36 (born 1735) married Sarah Seaby and named a son Essex in 1779
I could not find a baptism for Thomas Hartop born 1735 Keysoe but do have;
William Hartop s of Thomas and Sarah bap 28 Oct 1735 at Keysoe Beds. Is this a mistranscription?
Maybe Essex Hartop’s 1736 baptism is hiding in the same place as the other baptisms!?! Perhaps in Colmworth if he farmed there!
I notice that Thomas Hartop (1735) first marriage to Judith Flanders was on 18 Feb 1760 at Keysoe Beds which was the same day as Sarah Hartop married John Combs. Was Sarah Hartop a spinster and perhaps Thomas Hartops sister or if she was a widow perhaps this is the marriage of Thomas Hartop’s widowed mother (if she was Sarah)?
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Is there a burial for Elizabeth Hartop in Colnworth or Cardington from 1772-1793?
Burials taken from the NBI are indexed on Findmypast at http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/parish-records/baptisms If an age is given on the NBI it's shown on FindMyPast but other than that there's no other detail on FindMyPast so not worth buying credits.
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Strangely, although I have a note of a baptism for Mary Hartop on 29 March 1741 at Keysoe d Thomas and Sarah (who married Francis Elms) I could not find this on IGI. Do you have this baptism?
It's in the member submitted section of the IGI rather than the extracted part. Doubtless the extracted entry was deleted when the LDS had a clean up, thus debasing the IGI - per
"Community Contributed IGI (Personal family information submitted to the LDS Church)
For a short period of time duplication in the IGI was reduced by removing records from the indexed data when these records were submitted by the community. To do an exhaustive search for your ancestor you should choose to search the Community Contributed IGI and follow the process outlined on the Family Search Wiki IGI page to determine if the record you find was part of an indexed collection."
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Davis. Thanks for the clarification and information regarding the IGI. What a mess! Are we not allowed to do our own research?
Is there a burial for Elizabeth Hartop in Colnworth or Cardington? Did Essex remarry before he died?There is a burial of Elizabeth Hartop buried 18 Dec 1789 Cardington Beds, which is after the baptism in 1772 at Colmworth of Joseph Billing Hartop
and before the marriage in 1793 at Elstow of Essex Hartop to Mary Jordan.
A Joseph Hartop was buried 10 May 1792 in Cardington who may have been the son of Essex and Elizabeth
and which may be why Essex Hartop and Mary named their son Joseph in 1794.
Perhaps Essex Hartop a Farmer was originally from the Colmworth area ?
There is no baptism for Essex Hartop abt 1736 s of Thomas and Sarah (their marriage has not been found).
On the IGI Hartop Tree, baptisms are given for William in 1735, Sarah 1736 and then Mary in 1741, James in 1742, Eleanora 1744 and Elizabeth 1746.
Thomas Hartops baptism date is not on the IGI submitted tree. Thomas has an estimated birth abt 1738 from his burial he was born about 1736.
If a baptism had not been found for Thomas I suspect that as he was in the Keysoe area when he married Judith and his name was Thomas it was assumed that he was the son of Thomas and Sarah.
There is also not a baptism for Essex. Essex married and had children in Cardington so the link had not been made that he was also from Bolnhurst
There is a gap of five years between 1736-1741 of the baptisms of Thomas and Sarah’s children so plenty of time for both Thomas and Essex.
Thomas (1738) named a son Essex (was this after his brother?).
Mary’s (1741) illegitimate child Elizabeth (perhaps) went to live with Essex in Cardington.
Essex returned to Colmworth in 1772 to Farm.
Just ideas!
Although Thomas 1736 was a churchwarden at Keysoe in 1759, 60,61 and then again 1771 through to 1779
Thomas Hartop 1736 had a base son John in 1757 in Bolnhurst
His sister Mary had a base daughter Elizabeth in 1762 before she married Francis Elms 1769
Francis Elms had a base son Francis Sabey in 1767 at Bolnhurst with Mary Sabey
Thomas Hartop 2nd wife Sarah Sabey was the sister of Mary Sabey??
Oh what a complicated web they wove!!
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Essex returned to Colmworth in 1772 to Farm.
If he did then he was back in Cardington by 1 Jan 1782 when the census was taken. He's shown as
Essex Hartop labourer born at Kesur* age 43
Wife Elizabeth, maiden name Billen. Born at Cardington, and late widw. of William Urine. Spins linen. Age 46
Children. By her first husband
1st. Elizabeth, married at Warden. Age 27
2nd Hannah, married at Meppershall. Age 24
Children. By her present husband:
3rd. Thomas, works for Mr Whitbread. Age 17
4th. Mary age 16
5th. Phebe spins linen age 14
6th. Joseph-billen. At school by Mr Howard. Age 10
* This presumably is Keysoe, thus providing the link to north Beds
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Absolutely plus
6th. Joseph-billen. At school by Mr Howard. Age 10 (born 1772)
Must have been;
Joseph Billing Hartop bap May 1772 Colnworth s of Essex and Elizabeth
Proving that Essex was Farming in Colnworth in 1772!!
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or labouring in Colmworth, or merely that he baptised his son in Colmworth, although the debtors prison thing does imply that he was in Colmworth.
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I notice that Thomas Hartop (1735) first marriage to Judith Flanders was on 18 Feb 1760 at Keysoe Beds which was the same day as Sarah Hartop married John Combs. Was Sarah Hartop a spinster and perhaps Thomas Hartops sister or if she was a widow perhaps this is the marriage of Thomas Hartop’s widowed mother (if she was Sarah)?
Marriage 18/2/1760; John Coombs, widower of St Pauls Bedford to Sarah Hartop, spinster; witnesses Thomas Hartop & John Hopkins. Same day marriage of Thomas Hartop to Judith Flanders had witnesses John Coombs & Robert Flanders. Note John Hopkins was also witness to Keysoe marriage on 23/12/1767 of William Sewell of Croxton Cambs to Elenora Hartop.
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Strangely, although I have a note of a baptism for Mary Hartop on 29 March 1741 at Keysoe d Thomas and Sarah (who married Francis Elms) I could not find this on IGI. Do you have this baptism?
Yes it is in the Keysoe PR baptisms 29 Mar 1741
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The 18/12/1789 burial at Cardington is Elizabeth, wife of Essex Hartop
Elstow marriage 24/12/1793 Essex Hartop, widower of Cardington to Mary Jordan. She could be the Mary JORDING baptised Elstow 30/7/1758 daughter of Thomas & Mary. If so she would have been 35 at the marriage while Essex was 57 (based on him being 77 when he died in 1813)
Cardington marriage 29/3/1763 Essex Hartop to Elizabeth Urin, widow by licence
Previously on 25/6/1755 William Urin, widower married Elizabeth Billin by licence; and then William Urin, farmer was buried 6/5/1762. Previously on 14/4/1734 William Urin married Ann Prior, then Ann wife of William Prior was buried 12/2/1747. Elizabeth daughter of Samuel & Mary Billing, miller was baptised 31/7/1735 at Cardington.
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John. Thank you for the information
The other link from Keysoe to the Cardington family is
In Bedford St Paul's baptisms on 23 Apr 1765 is William Coombs son of John & Sarah Coombs. They also baptised daughter Ann on 6 Feb 1763 where John's occupation is lime burner.
According to the treee on the IGI
Sarah Hartupp spinster married John Combs widower 18 Feb 1760 at Keysoe Beds witnesses Thomas Hartop & John Hopkins.
A marriage on the same day as Thomas Hartop to Judith Flanders
?
Sarah Hartop born 1736 Keysoe was the sister of Thomas 1737 who married Sarah Sabey, Essex Hartop 1739 lived in Cardington, Mary Hartop born 1741 had the base daughter she married Francis Elms.
No further clues to my Franccis Sabey but it is good to get a 'feel' of the family