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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: bucksboy on Thursday 09 June 11 17:54 BST (UK)
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Hi folks.
Need a little help and guidance here.
John Ives c1825 Missenden - married Fanny(Frances) King in 1847. Princes Risborough.
John Ives was buried in Princes Risborough, 21 May 1876 aged 50 of Longwick.
Father is James Ives on marriage cert.
John Ives gives his p.o.b as Longwick & Monks Risborough also.
Cannot find John Ives with father James on 1841 census. BUT....there is a 'stray' John Ives in 1841 Bledlow census
Found a James Ives(Jass) c1791 Missenden(Widower) Ag.Lab, in Longwick in 1851, a few doors away from John & Fanny Ives. James Ives(Jass) is living/visiting John Bennion c1790 Wendover, who is a Publican.
I found John Bennion in Stoke Mandeville in 1841, as a publican/farmer.
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Found a marriage in Chesham Bois for James Ives & Mary Channer in 1819, and Children born Chesham Bois are Mary 1819, Eli 1821 & Joseph 1823.
I have found a baptism for a John Ives - 5 Mar 1826 @ Stoke Mandeville, to James Jnr & Mary Ives.
Also found a potential burial for Mary Ives(Channer ?). 6 Aug 1829 @ Stoke Mandeville.
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Questions.
1). Where is James Ives in 1841. (With or without John and wife Mary)
2). Did James Ives remarry.
3). Are there any more children to James & Mary Ives(Channer), in Chesham Bois.
4). Where did James Ives die. (Not buried in Princes Risborough).
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I have looked everywhere for 6 years to no avail, and hopeing some fresh eyes and ideas might help.
Many thanks.
Steve. :)
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Hi, been having a look for your Ives family, bit of a stinker because i have been looking in ancestry and found a JAMES IVES, born Great Missenden, Buck, 1791, he has 2 spouses, Mary Channer and a Sarah? i have found James and Mary and family in 1841 in NORTHAMPTONSHIRE, with children, JOHN, 1826, CHARLOTTE, 1826, ELIZA , 1828, Thomas, 1829, and Jane 1833, born in Northamptonshire, also, i found another child, DAVID IVES, born, abt, 1818/20, in WIMBLEDON.
Don't know if this is the right family, but the names match, IE; son John Ives, and wife, Mary Channer.
Can go back further with them if you want, but just have a look at this for now and let me know what you think, oh found a death for James Ives, march, 1878, northamptonshire.
Regards,
Cookie.
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Hi Cookie, and thank you very much for your interest.
The Northamptonshire IVES family all appear to involved in the shoe industry(obviously). John Ives c1826 is still in Northampton and married, so I don't think these are my family.
As for James c1791 and the two wives (Mary Channer & Sarah ?), I have not found a parentage or p.o.b for Mary Channer, if that is the right surname for her. And Sarah is still a mystery totally.
I think there are two James IVES of a similar age, and parentage. And that may be where the problem lies.
As for the 1826 baptism for John Ives in Stoke Mandeville, I have had no luck in census with that name and p.o.b at all.
I have had IVES family members being born in other villages, but not baptised in same. But I'm not saying that the Stoke Mandeville John IVES is mine, just that I haven't found one in Missenden for him.
Just to stray off point for a moment, I have relatives(STEVENS) being born in Monks Risborough and baptised in Great Kimble, and the children in later census seem to split between Monks Risborough and Kimble as p.o.b. But these were quite easily sorted out.
There are Trees that seem to be at the same point as myself, so I shouldn't be surprised at my dilemma.
All I can say for certain, is that John IVES gave James IVES as fathers name on his 1847 marriage cert, and in the parish registers.
And to top it all, I have just found a Joseph IVES c1826. Stoke, Buckinghamshire marrying an Ann HARMAN(c.1827. Bledlow) in 1850. Princes Risborough, giving fathers name as James IVES Ag.Lab in Princes Risborough parish regs. Found them in 1851, and then nothing after that.
I still have gut feeling the answer lies in the area of Princes Risborough to Wendover and Chesham, and then over to Great & Little Missenden and finally Hughenden. A big area, I know. Almost a Bermuda triangle.
I am so grateful that you have shown interest, and hopefully more eyes can see further than my own,
Warmest regards.
Steve. :)
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Ok folks, I've been at this for hours now, and I think there are some more clues.
Mary Ives b.1819-Chesham, appears to be in service in 1851 to Edward Arnold in High Wycombe. Unmarried. In 1861 in service again to Henry Wheeler.
Joseph Ives b1823 as mentioned before in previous post.
Eli Ives b1821 (age varies), ends up in Kensington in London and marries Mary Ann Winsbury in 1860. Kensington. (p.o.b is only given as Bucks/Buckinghamshire).
Eli seems to have used fathers name of James in 1861. This census record has huge errors on it, and his name is transrcibed and written as James Ives Staterey.
In 1871 he has 3 children, together with (Winsbury)step children. James(1860), Elizabeth(1866) & William(1868) all born Notting Hill.
James Ives(1860) appears as James Winsbury in the 1861 census. He in turn marries Mary Elizabeth ???, and lives in later census.
There is a tree on Ancestry with father of Eli Ives as JAMES IVES.
If anyone has a spare bit of time, could you please try and confirm what I have found. At the minute, my poor old brain cell is fried a tad.
Thanks for looking folks.
Steve. :)
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I still have gut feeling the answer lies in the area of Princes Risborough to Wendover and Chesham, and then over to Great & Little Missenden and finally Hughenden. A big area, I know. Almost a Bermuda triangle.
I have two Ives lines; one in Hughenden which stops at John Ives m.1722 d.1764 and the other in Princes Risborough which stops at John Ives, Yeoman d.1724. I have always suspected that they are the same family, and that Missenden is where they came from before Hughenden and PR. Judging by the Bucks wills index it looks like they may have come from Ickford before that.
My Hughenden line has a James Ives bapt.1796 who I guess might be a candidate for yours??? I don't know what became of him, but if it is any help his parents were Joseph Ives & Martha Plumridge, and brothers William, Stephen and Daniel.
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Hi Supermoussi.
There is another train of thought, that the IVES line traces back to John Ives c1656 Quainton. (Buried 1716 @ Great Milton, Oxon.) Parents John & Margaret Ives (nee.? ? ? ).
Great Milton is quite close to Ickbury. Only 3-4 miles away.
John Ives(1656.Quainton) marries Jane ? ? ? somewhere, and has a child John Ives c1692. Grendon Underwood. John(c1692) then marries Elizabeth Wright in 1722. Hughenden.
John & Elizabeth then have a son Joseph c.1725. Hughenden.
No marriage for Joseph Ives(1725. Hughenden) but he apparently has a child Joseph. c1761. Gt.Missenden.
Joseph Ives(1761. Gt.Missenden) the marries Hannah Warrell in 1782. Wendover.
Joseph & Hannah have a son James c1788 in Great Missenden.
And here we are with James c1788, marrying Mary Channer in Chesham Bois in 1819.
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Lots of weak links in this line of thought. ::)
Oh how I wish I lived in England now. I would certainly be pounding the parish regs etc. at Bucks studies. ;D
Steve. :)
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I have found a baptism for a John Ives - 5 Mar 1826 @ Stoke Mandeville, to James Jnr & Mary Ives.
I think the above is probably your man.
Up to 1850 a large detached part of the parish of Stoke Mandeville was situated at Prestwood. Until the formation of the parish of Prestwood - which included parts of the parishes of Great Missenden and Hughenden as well as the detached part of Stoke Mandeville - those children born in the Stoke Mandeville part would have been taken to the mother church at Stoke Mandeville for baptism. As this was six miles distant its hardly surprising that some children never were baptised.
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Thanks for that Orpheus.
I'm almost sure as well, but it's just that little tiny nagging doubt that spoils it.
If I take that baptism as gospel, then I am looking for a James Snr. father to James Jnr. as mentioned in the baptism record.
Maybe the James Ives c1791(transcribed Jass), I found as widowed in the 1851 census in Longwick, Princes risborough, is a red herring........but the coincidence of him living with John Bennion (1791. Wendover), and then John Bennion living in Stoke Mandeville in 1841 I can't ignore.
And also with James Ives living a few doors away from 'my' John Ives in 1851, I can't ignore that either.
I'll keep at it, I'm sure that doubt will dissappear.
Steve. :)
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Thanks for that Orpheus.
If I take that baptism as gospel, then I am looking for a James Snr. father to James Jnr. as mentioned in the baptism record.
How about this scenario:
James IVES of Great Missenden married Mary WOOSTER at Wendover 20 Jan 1785. They have the following children:
6 Oct 1785 Elizabeth bapt at Gt Missenden
27 Apr 1787 Ann bapt at Gt Missenden
21 Jun 1789 Sarah bapt at The Lee
10 Apr 1791 James bapt at The Lee
7 Jul 1793 John bapt at The Lee
7 Jun 1795 Thos bapt at The Lee
9 Jun 1799 William bapt at Gt Missenden
11 May 1800 Joseph bapt at Gt Missenden
2 Aug 1801 Job bapt at Gt Missenden
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There is another train of thought, that the IVES line traces back to John Ives c1656 Quainton. (Buried 1716 @ Great Milton, Oxon.) Parents John & Margaret Ives (nee.? ? ? ).
And where b4 Quainton? Early Bucks Ives wills are:-
John Ive [?Great] Missenden 1489
John Ive Burnham 1524
John Ive Great Missenden 1533
John Ive Britwell yeoman 1559
Edmund Yves Ickford 1560
Thomas Ive Britwell yeoman 1582
Anthony Ives Ickford husbandman 1586
Thomas Ives Ickford husbandman 1592
Margery Ives Ickford widow 1600
plus of course there are quite a few more Missenden wills in the 1600s.
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You have it in a nutshell Supermoussi & Orpheus. The possibilities are endless.
I have a potential living Ives relative, who has been at this for over 25 years. So I'm not expecting miracles. He is sure there is a link between his Oxfordshire Ives line, and mine as well as other Ives researchers. But it's trying to find those few extra clues to tie it all down.
And as information has become a lot more accessible and more of it, I'm hoping we can find that clue.
Your help is very much appreciated, and I welcome it very much. So thank you.
I will be in England in August for two weeks(it's not long enough :o ), so I'll pop into Bucks archives to have a look at the Wills, and hopefully get copies of all of them. In fact,I will try and find anything I can, with the name IVES attached to it. ;)
But in the meantime I'll see what else I can find online.
Many thanks again.
Steve. :)
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I may have knowledge (very limited) of a Thomas Ives of Great Missendon recorded in a Will written 9 Sep 1812 and proved 5 May 1813, that I have just transcribed.
Elizabeth Tomkins, spinster of Harrow on the Hill, late of Fetters Lane, London and Great Missendon, Berks. left 150 pounds to Mary Ives, wife of Thomas Ives of Great Missendon, Berks., the sole legatee.
Elizabeth Tomkins was buried 26 Apr 1813 at St. Mary, Harrow in the Parish of Harrow on the Hill, aged 57.
I am mainly interested in the relation of his wife Mary to Elizabeth Tomkins.
Keith
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Thanks for that Orpheus.
If I take that baptism as gospel, then I am looking for a James Snr. father to James Jnr. as mentioned in the baptism record.
How about this scenario:
James IVES of Great Missenden married Mary WOOSTER at Wendover 20 Jan 1785. They have the following children:
6 Oct 1785 Elizabeth bapt at Gt Missenden
27 Apr 1787 Ann bapt at Gt Missenden
21 Jun 1789 Sarah bapt at The Lee
10 Apr 1791 James bapt at The Lee
7 Jul 1793 John bapt at The Lee
7 Jun 1795 Thos bapt at The Lee
9 Jun 1799 William bapt at Gt Missenden
11 May 1800 Joseph bapt at Gt Missenden
2 Aug 1801 Job bapt at Gt Missenden
I have a number of relationships between my Child family and the Ives of Gt Missenden in the 19th century, nearly all butchers or bakers. In particular Catherine Alice Child born 1835 baptised 22 Jun 1834 St Margarets Uxbridge married George Edward Ives 19 Dec 1859 at Haddington Terrace, Limehouse Stepney (George was bapt 8 Nov 1834 at Great Missenden son of Job Ives a master butcher of Road Farm Great Missenden and Sarah).
In 1881 Emma Ives age 19 and born at Great Missenden, Catherine’s daughter was living with Robert Child baker in Aldersgate, working as a shop woman.
In 1871 another daughter Elizabeth (6) was living in Little Missenden with her widowed grandmother Ann Child (nee Batchelor) who had previously run a bakery in Ruislip with her husband William Child.
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I still have gut feeling the answer lies in the area of Princes Risborough to Wendover and Chesham, and then over to Great & Little Missenden and finally Hughenden. A big area, I know. Almost a Bermuda triangle.
I have two Ives lines; one in Hughenden which stops at John Ives m.1722 d.1764 and the other in Princes Risborough which stops at John Ives, Yeoman d.1724. I have always suspected that they are the same family, and that Missenden is where they came from before Hughenden and PR. Judging by the Bucks wills index it looks like they may have come from Ickford before that.
My Hughenden line has a James Ives bapt.1796 who I guess might be a candidate for yours??? I don't know what became of him, but if it is any help his parents were Joseph Ives & Martha Plumridge, and brothers William, Stephen and Daniel.
Hi SuperM.
From what I have worked out, James Ives 1796. d.1844(Hanover Sqr,) married Catherine Hall(1798). 16th Feb. 1817 @ St.Martins in the Field, Westminster.
They had 4 Children.
1).James - b1818 - d1818. Amersham, Bucks.
2).Mary - abt.1817 - d.1835. Amersham, Bucks.
3).Sarah b.1822. Amersham, Bucks. d.???? (But appears to be in Broomfield, Somerset, in 1861).
4).Thomas Hall Ives c1824. Amersham, Bucks. d.1888 - Amersham, Bucks. He married Ann Langstone (c.1822. Little Missenden) in 1860 Amersham.
They had one son, George Albert Ives 1861. Amersham. (d.Oct 1897. Middlesex)(His Will leaves probate to Herbert and Thomas Langstone)).
He married Elizabeth Annie Fairweather (b1861. Dublin, Ireland). @ Holy Trinity Church, Dublin - 23 July 1884.
They had 3 children.
Albert George Ives b.15 Apr. 1888. Shepherds Bush. (Transcribed as George Albrett Ives on some records).
Daisy Frances Ives b.26 Apr. 1890. Sheperds Bush.
Percy Sidney Ives b. 16 Jul. 1893. Sheperds Bush.
Elizabeth Annie Ives(Widow)(Dublin)), is with Daisy & Percy in St.Albans 1911 census.
Albert George Ives 1888, had joined the Navy, by 1911, as a steward, and his service records indicate he served on some of the most well known 'Dreadnoughts' of the Navy.
Still not found my own final roots though. :D :D
Steve. :)
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You've been a busy bee! Sorry to hear that it wasn't the right one though. C'est la vie.
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You've been a busy bee! Sorry to hear that it wasn't the right one though. C'est la vie.
We all live in hope. :D
I have 3 Ives trees going at the moment.......and no doubt there'll be a 4th and final one. ::) ;D ;D
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Hi Supermoussi, and all.
I am now sure that 'my' James Ives is the one baptised @ The Lee, Bucks. Buried in Great Missenden, 7 Sep 1860. Aged 70.
I have traced the other James Ives(1788. Grt. Missenden), to Wimbledon, with a host of kiddies being born there. Wife is Susan/Sussanah ? ? ?. No marriage found as yet.
But he is in the 1841/51/61 census, and dies in 1869. Occ. Gardener.
Jas Ives(1794), in 1841.........James Ives 1791.(Gt.Messendon) in 1851. And I. Ives 1788.(Pauper), Sulkinghamshire, Sprent Missinden, in 1861.
Died 1869. Kingston, Surrey. Aged 81. Kingston being the reg. dist. of Wimbledon.
Still a few more I's to dot, but I think I'm right........well, hopefully. ;D
Steve. :)
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Ok folks, I've cracked it. ;)
James Ives & Mary Ives(nee.Channer), married at Chesham, Bucks in 1819.
4 children baptised @ Chesham(of Chartridge).
Mary - 1819. Shows in 1851 & 1861 census, born Chesham.
Eli - 1821. Still a bit unsure of his marriage and census returns.
Elizabeth** - 1822. Marries James PARKER(b1820. Bledlow) in Holy Trinity Church, Bledlow, Bucks. in 1847. (Fathers name - James IVES, labourer).
Joseph - 1823. Married Ann Harman/Harmon in 1850 P.Risborough......and then vanishes after 1851.
And finally John IVES, baptised 1826 @ Stoke Mandeville. (My chap). ;)
**Elizabeth Parker(nee.Ives) provides the best clues.
In Bledlow in 1841 under Elizabeth HIVES.
In 1851 her p.o.b is given as Chesham.
In 1861 her p.o.b is given as Stoke.(Mandeville ??).
In 1871 her p.o.b is given as Chasterage(Chartridge), Buckinghamshire.
In 1871 her p.o.b is given as Chesham.
The confusion of all these childrens p.o.b's, would be their mothers death in 1828 in Stoke Mandeville, and then being scattered around Bledlow, and Bledlow Ridge.
James IVES 1791 (Son of James Ives & Mary Wooster), dies in the Union Workhouse @ Amersham, aged 70, of Shaking palsy(Parkinsons disease). Buried - 7 Sep 1860 @ Gt. Missenden.
Still a few I's to dot, and T's to cross yet. ;)
Steve. :)
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James Ives, baptised 16 April 1788 @ Great Missenden, to Joseph IVES & Hannah(nee.Warrell), died and was buried 20 April 1788. So he is definately out of the picture.
There son William Ives was baptised 15 Mar 1789, and was buried 19 March 1789.
Still more I's to dot and T's to cross, but there's less of them. ;)
Steve. :)
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Thanks for that Orpheus.
If I take that baptism as gospel, then I am looking for a James Snr. father to James Jnr. as mentioned in the baptism record.
How about this scenario:
James IVES of Great Missenden married Mary WOOSTER at Wendover 20 Jan 1785. They have the following children:
6 Oct 1785 Elizabeth bapt at Gt Missenden
27 Apr 1787 Ann bapt at Gt Missenden
21 Jun 1789 Sarah bapt at The Lee
10 Apr 1791 James bapt at The Lee
7 Jul 1793 John bapt at The Lee
7 Jun 1795 Thos bapt at The Lee
9 Jun 1799 William bapt at Gt Missenden
11 May 1800 Joseph bapt at Gt Missenden
2 Aug 1801 Job bapt at Gt Missenden
I have a number of relationships between my Child family and the Ives of Gt Missenden in the 19th century, nearly all butchers or bakers. In particular Catherine Alice Child born 1835 baptised 22 Jun 1834 St Margarets Uxbridge married George Edward Ives 19 Dec 1859 at Haddington Terrace, Limehouse Stepney (George was bapt 8 Nov 1834 at Great Missenden son of Job Ives a master butcher of Road Farm Great Missenden and Sarah).
In 1881 Emma Ives age 19 and born at Great Missenden, Catherine’s daughter was living with Robert Child baker in Aldersgate, working as a shop woman.
In 1871 another daughter Elizabeth (6) was living in Little Missenden with her widowed grandmother Ann Child (nee Batchelor) who had previously run a bakery in Ruislip with her husband William Child.
Are this lot of IVES's yours.?
Great Missenden - 2 Nov 1834 George son of Job & Sarah IVES of Prestwood Common, Farmer.
Aston Clinton - 18 Jun 1833. Job IVES of Great Missenden, to Sarah COLLINS of this parish
Witnesses - Antony Collins, & Jane(x)Collins.
Great Missenden.
25 Jun 1861
Thomas Robert CHAMPION, aged 25, Bachelor of Limehouse, Gunmaker son of William Champion, Staymaker
Mary Ann IVES, aged 24, Spinster of this parish daughter of Job Ives, Butler(Butcher).?
Witnesses Job Ives Emma Ives
29 Aug 1871
Harry George COLLINS, aged 30, Bachelor of Aylesbury, Grocer son of George Collins, Farmer
Emma IVES, aged 35, Spinster of this parish daughter of Job Ives, Butcher
Witnesses - George Ives & Jane Collins.
5 Sep 1870
Thomas Joseph IVES, aged 24, Bachelor of this parish , Butcher son of Job Ives, Butcher
Elizabeth Annie KAYLEY, aged 27, Spinster of this parish daughter of William Kayley, Farmer
Witnesses George Ives Emma Heinmann
6 Sep 1874
Robert IVES, aged 25, Bachelor of this parish , Butcher son of Job Ives, Butcher
Maria BARRETT, aged 23, Spinster of this parish daughter of John Barrett, Corn Dealer.
Witnesses - Harry Barrett & Fanny Barrett.
Steve. :)
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Thought I would update this thread, after a few years of absence. ;)
Almost all the Ives named in this thread are related, apart from the Ickford and Quainton families(as yet to be proved).
The Ives in Hughenden, Prestwood, Little & Great Missenden, Amersham, Lacey Green, Stoke Mandeville, Monks Risborough, Princes Risborough, Speen, Bradenham, Chipping Wycombe, High Wycombe, and more places in that area, are connected in my tree, before and during census returns. And a good few later on.
Still trying to connect the Ives from Toweresy, Radnage and Stokenchurch.
There is also a connection to Oxfordshire, only by the fact that property in Oxfordshire was named in various Wills. Most farms and buildings, that were owned by the Ives family, were often occupied by family members, abeit 1st, 2nd, 3rd cousins, nephews, brothers etc.
The 'unfortunate' thing, was that the wealth of the Ives never filtered down to me, nor my 3 times Gt Grandfather, James Ives(1791. The Lee). It seems it was always the eldest son who inherited the lions share.
But, fanciful, (and some fact), as it may seem, most of the 'poor' relations, worked, lived or were employed by family members, up until the end of the 1900's. Or at least, some invested there inheritance in smaller businesses. ie Butchers shops etc.
So if anybody with Ives connections wants any help, please ask away. I won't say I'll have all the answers(or any), but I'll have a good few of them. ;)
Steve. :)
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Is Thomas IVE, Yeoman of Burnham who was sued for a debt by the attorney Alexander Cotton in 1584 one of yours? see https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/1420-1:_A-J (https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/1420-1:_A-J)
Indexes to some court cases can be accessed here:- http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40_Indices.html (http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40_Indices.html)
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Is Thomas IVE, Yeoman of Burnham who was sued for a debt by the attorney Alexander Cotton in 1584 one of yours? see https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/1420-1:_A-J (https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/1420-1:_A-J)
Indexes to some court cases can be accessed here:- http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40_Indices.html (http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40_Indices.html)
Possibly is. But cannot connect him.
Thanks. :)