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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: alan.h on Friday 10 June 11 15:10 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find out more about the Hollingsworth family who are descended from John Hollingsworth (c1653-c1740) and Elizabeth Smith (c1658-c1711). There seems to be a long tradition of the men being butchers. I have seen a note that they had stalls in Ware and Hertford markets - but have no idea how to verify that. In the next generation, Smith Hollingsworth appears to have been a butcher in Benington and three of his sons moved to London. Ralph and Joseph seem to have been apprenticed to their older brother Thomas. Thomas is my direct ancestor and it looks as if he married three times. His second wife was Elizabeth Winder (.. they married in Bishopsgate, London in 1765). It looks as if Elizabeth may also have come from Herfordshire, but I cannot find any record of her birth. Any connections or info about this family would be very welcome (as would any suggestions as to where I can find out more)
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Hi
Before we start ....................
"It looks as if Elizabeth may also have come from Herfordshire"
Hertfordhire or Herefordshire?
::)
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Hi,
Sorry, should have put my glasses on... HERTFORDSHIRE was what I meant!
I think that the Thomas Hollingsworth I am looking for was christened (according to an IGI record) on 5 April 1738 in Ware, Hertfordshire. Only the father is named, and he was Smith Hollinsworth (sic). The same father is named for the brothers, Ralph and Joseph, mentioned in my earlier post. (For Joseph, the mother's name is also given as Alice - but I cannot yet find the marriage of an Alice to a Smith Hollingsworth)
Thomas Hollingsworth married Elizabeth Winder at St Botoph Bishopsgate, London, on 8 October 1765. The record states that Thomas was a widower, while Elizabeth was a spinster of St Peter le Poor (a parish in the city of London). I had assumed from this that Elizabeth was a Londoner and the only hints that she may not have been are two mentions in the National Archives on-line search:
"Thomas and Wm {William?} Hollingsworth (sons of the late Eliz {Elizabeth?} Winder)" dated 1788 and relating to the sale of land.
and
" Elizabeth Winder now having married Thos {Thomas?} Hollingsworth. Youngs, etc. Signature - Thos {Thomas?} Sheppard. [Hertfordshire Archives, Title deeds, manorial...]
Date: 1743 - 1766 Source: Access to Archives (A2A): not kept at The National Archives"
This seems too much of a coincidence for it not to be the same family, but I cannot (again 'yet') locate the birth of an Elizabeth Winder in Hertfordshire. If she came from London, then why would there be references to her, apparently, in documents relating to that county?
I have to say also, that the only children I have found from the marriage of Thomas Hollingsworth and Elizabeth Winder are the (presumably) twins, Jemima and William, christened on 4 November 1767 at St Giles Cripplegate - again back in the city of London.
So, whilst I had already found a link to Hertfordshire for Thomas Hollingsworth I had not, and still cannot, find a connection for his wife, Elizabeth Winder.
Any advice on where to look, or indeed any information which might be relevant, would be greatly appreciated.
Alan
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Hi
Winder may be a name by (a previous) marriage and not her birth name?
R
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Hi,
"Thomas was a widower, while Elizabeth was a spinster of St Peter le Poor " is what the marriage record states. That doesn't mean it is totally accurate, but that is all I have to go on.
Alan
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In London on 12 June 1848 my Thomas Skillman, butcher of Redbourn, Hertfordshire, married one Susannah Hollingsworth whose father was a butcher. They then lived in Redbourn and had a butchery business. She was born im Hoddesdon, Herts and he in Redbourn. This Hollingsworth family may then be linked to yours but I would like to know more about Thomas. We may have some common ground.
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P.S. her father was Thomas Hollingsworth. He's the Thomas I know very little about and would like to know more.
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Interesting. I've got a bit overwhelmed with the Hollingsworths! I don't (yet) have a Susannah but I have 15 Thomas Hollingsworths to date.
My direct link to the Hollingsworths ended when my 5x great-grandmother (Jemmima Hollingsworth) married at St Stephen's, Coleman Street in the city of London in 1791, so I haven't especially gone further into the 1800s. The extended family does seem to have lots of butchers in it however, and so it is quite likely that a connection between out families will emerge.
Keep in touch, and I'm sure that between us we will find a link. It seems too much of a coincidence.
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Alan H-From what I've seen Thomas and Elizabeth Winder had twins, Jemima and William Thomas.
I too am a descendant of this particular line of Hollingsworth and am interested in any and all information on their ancestors as well as descendants.
Redbourn- there are many susannah's but I don't recall one having a father named Thomas. but I could be wrong.
I would particularly like to know who Henry William Hollingsworth Jr.'s first wife was. On his marriage certificate to Frances Ellen Baxter, it states he was a widower. Unfortunately I don't have any records of a previous marriage for him.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
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Hi,
I have an additional son for Thomas Hollingsworth and Elizabeth (Winder): Samuel, christened on 5 Oct 1766 at St Botolph Bishopsgate in the City of London (Significantly the same church where the parents had married the previous year). I don't know what happened to Samuel as there are several men of that name in London in later years, and I'm not sure which one he is.
Can you give me any dates for the other person you asked about? I don't have too much on the Hollingsworths after the Samuel, Jemima, William generation, as my line is via Jemima and so the surname then changes (obviously). I'll have a look though.
As I say if you give me any dates for Henry Hollingsworth that will help me know which line to look at. I certainly don't have a Frances Baxter in my tree, so a date for that marriage will help too.
Alan
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I also have Thomas Hollingsworth on my tree, but I am checking for details to confirm him.
Thomas, when he married Elizabeth Winder, was a widow. I think his first wife may have been Elizabeth Jackson. Marriage contract 16th May 1780. If this is the correct Thomas, then he and Elizabeth had a son Abraham about 1882. Abraham married firstly Hannah Rutherford, then Mary Sands. The son born to Rutherford , Henry William b 1817, St Botolphs, was my G G Grandfather via William Aaron H b 1858.
However, on Abrahams wedding to Mary Sands, Thomas is referred to as an 'Officer of the Customs' - so I am looking for any mare evidence of his occupation.
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April? 1879 was the date for marriage between Francis Baxter and Henry William Hollingsworth jnr born 1847 in Rotherhithe. His previous wife is recorded as being Ellen (Hollingsworth?).
Henry William Hollingsworth was the brother of William Aaron Hollingsworth - my G grandfather.
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As far as I can see, Thomas Hollingsworth and Elizabeth (nee Winder) had three children: Samuel, mentioned above born in 1766 and twins, Jemima and William Thomas christened on 8 Oct 1767 in St Giles Cripplegate, London. I am descended from Jemima, so my direct Hollingsworth link ends with her - as she became a Hewett on her marriage in 1791. She seems to have died in London in 1803. Her brother, William Thomas, moved to Birmingham where he died on 22 Oct 1838 in Queen Street.
As I mentioned above, there is a christening for Samuel but I'm not clear what became of him. I am therefore rather confused about other Hollingsworths who could have been descended from these twins, and therefore back from Thomas and Elizabeth. William Thomas (and therefore the male line) moved off to the midlands with his family, where it appears that all Hollingsworths in this family during the next generation were born. His sons had been born in London, but married in the midlands so it seems unlikely that their children would then have gone back to London.
I'm intrigued by the perceived Hollingsworth links in London during the 1800s, therefore, and would be very interested to know how they have been traced back to Thomas (the butcher and innkeeper from Moorgate, originally from Hertfordshire)and his second wife, Elizabeth - who died only months after giving birth to these twins. They were married for less than 2 1/2 years so I must have missed something somewhere! I would really like to get this right, for my own interest as much as for any other reason.
Alan
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Sorry, that marriage between Thomas and Elizabeth Jackson was 1780 so not the first wife. I am still trying to confirm that this is the correct Thomas Hollingsworth.
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Elizabeth Hollingsworth died on 15 Feb 1768 and as far as I can see, Thomas then married Rosamund Smith: "'Thomas Hollingsworth of this parish widower and Rosamund Smith of St Stephen Coleman Street, spinster, were married in this church by license this 3rd day of May 1768" St Giles Cripplegate. (His first wife had been Margaret Smith, so possibly these two ladies were related?) Jemima, my 6x great-grandmother, was significantly also married in St Stephen's Coleman Street.
That seems very soon afterwards, but I guess the haste may be partly attributed to Thomas needing a step mother asap for his young twins, who had only been born (or at least christened) the previous November. Rosamund Hollingsworth's will refers to her husband, Thomas 'of Moorgate', by then being buried at Bunhill Fields just outside the old city, and also to John Hewett - the son of Jemima. This all seems to fit together, as far as I can see.
I'm certainly not claiming to be totally 'right' and do please double check things. I've uncovered more details since putting the original post on here and Rosamund's will especially appears to confirm this web of relationships and sequence of events.
(Incidentally, it appears to be from the Hollingsworths who moved off to Birmingham, and kept the family tradition of being butchers, that Howard Hollingsworth eventually emerged. He was the joint founder of Bourne and Hollingsworth's department store in Oxford Street; and his sister, Clara, married Walter Bourne....... but that, as they say, is another story!)
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My Hollingsworth line down from Thomas (with Elizabeth Jackson) goes Abraham John (with Hannah Rutherford) then Henry William Sr.(with Eliza Godwyn) to Henry William Jr. who was born March 1847 and died 9 March 1901. He married Frances Ellen Baxter May 16, 1879.
Alanh- Confusion in regards to Rosamond, since Thomas outlived her and remarried again. Yet her will seems to imply he's dead.
Kezd-I believe the reference to Ellen is perhaps Frances' middle name as some records use it instead of her first name.
I have also been trying to find a date of death for Henry Wm Sr. I came across the 1871 census which has Eliza his wife as a widow.
Also have a Matilda Hollingsworth age 5 in 1881 listed as a granddaughter but can't find which one of Eliza and Henry Wm. Sr's children she belongs to.
I'd appreciate any assistance in these areas
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Thomas Hollingsworth was buried at Bunhill Fields (sometimes referred, as in his widow Rosamund's will, as Mr Tindall's Burying Fields) on 11 March 1795.
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For the pile of notes/discussion?
Marriage 1873 Mar St.Olave 1d 279
William Henry Hollingsworth / Elizabeth Sophia Lawson (widow of Esau m1861 d1871 ?, nee Smyth)
3, Albert Cott., New Road, Rotherhithe
Fathers HWH and Harvey Smyth
Death 1875 Dec St.Olave 1d 214
Elizabeth Hollingsworth (38y)
Ray
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It could well be that we have two Thomas's born around the same time - my Thomas seems to be a relatively wealthy Corn Factor. He is recorded as a benefactor for some 'bare knuckle boxers'. He is also recorded as a 'gentleman' and an 'Officer of the customs'.
Any assistance with this family is appreciated. I would like to prove if they are associated with the Hertfordshire Hollingsworths....or not.
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Hi Alan,
Have you thought of a general Hollingsworth search in the 1851 census for Hertfordshire! There won't be many Hollingsworths but it could give you some ideas. I know there were Hs in Hitchin and Royston.
Don't think Winder is a Hertfordshire family. Out of interest had a quick look in the 1881. Only 3 Winders in the whole of Herts.
good hunting
Benzol
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HALS has a nice handful of entries in their "online names" facility
https://www.hertsdirect.org/ufs/ufsmain?ebz=3_1384157226911&ebd=0
As there are some "Hollingworth" names there, then I would suggest being creative with the search name.
No need to put a year range in, there aren't THAT many (250-300?)
Ray
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Thanks. The Winders came from Berkshire rather than Hertfordshire. When Jemima Hollingsworth married, the surname obviously changed, and so my connection with the Hollingsworth ends in the late 1700s. After that the family moved to Buckinghamshire. It would be interesting to search for links back in Herts, but they wouldn't be in my direct line at all. Something for the future, when I've sorted out my own direct family line (famous last words)!! Thanks for the suggestion. Alan
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Hi, I also have a Thomas Hollingsworth (5x great grandfather) born in 1748 Benington, Hertfordshire. It would appear that his parents were John Hollingsworth (a butcher!) and he was married to Sarah Coulson.
My Thomas Hollingsworth however appears to have died in St Andrews workhouse aged 76 in Hertford and his wife Martha, who I can find no marriage to whatsoever, was also buried in the same graveyard in Hertford. Middle names of their children, Morley & Pedley, throw up no help whatsover but assume they are family names as used several times !!
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Catching up with the Hollingsworths!
I now have the Thomas Hollingsworth born in 1748 with this detail:
Marriage
13 Feb 1772 • Ware, Hertfordshire, England
Martha Morley
So, if that is correct then Martha's maiden name was MORLEY.
Have you got the names of their children? I have this Thomas as my 1st cousin 8x removed (and the surname Coulson is used as the middle name for another Hollingsworth butcher in London: Ralph Coulson Hollingsworth!