RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Michael Dixon on Monday 13 June 11 14:28 BST (UK)
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Instead of Pit Yacka throwing out queries about Blyth, then skipping down to the Working Men's for a game of Dominoes, while Blythians toil over finding the answers for him, this time I am seeking an answer from PY !
In 1907 two neighbouring Urban Districts, on the south bank of the River Blyth, merged into one enlarged Urban District Council.
The 4000 within Blyth UD were amalgamated with the 12000 residents of Cowpen UD, under the name of Blyth Urban District Council, and the rest is history- sort of !
Seeing that Cowpen was bigger. more populous and had more antiquity than new-kid-on-the-block Blyth, why was the newly enlarged U.D. named Blyth, rather than Cowpen ?
I don't know the answer .
Michael
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Could it have taken the name from the river?? Too deep for me both the question and the river!!!! Ha Ha.
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emmad,
You are correct in that the area called Blyth got it's name from the name of the river. But I still wonder why the newly formed Urban District took the name Blyth instead of Cowpen ?
Michael
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B comes before C,
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Yes, it is a real conundrum, isn't it ? Years back I learned that they had amalgamated(by Act of Parliament) but I think I learned the facts here, on Rootschat, that Cowpen (Quay) was more populous than Blyth. Blyth was a backwater due to the town centre being flooded by high tides until they rectified matters in the Bridge Street area. When young I always wondered why it was called 'Bridge Street.' I recall the square near the Golden Fleece and the end of the shipyard, in the 1950s and 1960s. Nothing on it, but looking at old maps here(Roots) you can see that it was a very old feature of the area. My grandparents were married in 1915, and it is recorded as Tynemouth. I thought that Blyth was possibly within the Tynemouth local government area. Incorrect - it had something to do with areas recording births, marriages, and deaths.
And, Michael Dixon, I do not post queries, then skip off to the working mens' clubs - where I live(Yorks) they are struggling as well as those in the North-East. :'( I was never a clubman when living in Blyth, although I did go in them now and again. I remember neighbours who would queue for the No.49 bus at about 6pm on a Saturday evening, so that they could get to the Big Club, off Regent Street, to ensure they and their wives had a seat. I will refrain from the oft used saying, - "Happy Days."
Perhaps here on this site, it might be an idea to start recalling the names/locations of the pubs and clubs in the area. Your starters for 10 : The Pineapple; The Globe; The Swan. Keep it gannin, lads and lasses. Nivvor forget what a canny toon Blyth was, and is. :) ;)
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Gillian I think your alphabetical suggestion is a good one !
Michael
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PYofB,
The Pineapple- smallest pub in Blyth.
The White Swan - the coolest- at least in the upstairs lounge where Betty, managers wife, would play all the latest R'Roll on her Dansette record player.
Rarely went into the Globe ( close to the Swan) cos that was my father's pub !
Michael
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Going back to the original question - I reckon it was vested interest, politicians then being no different to politicians now.
The folks responsible for the naming of the council probably came from Blyth ;)
Christine
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Nice one, Christine !.
The new "authority" took over the old Cowpen UDC's building in Seaforth Street. Maybe the Blyth officials took most of the key posts. Maybe a takeover rather than a merger ?
Michael
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PYofB,
The Cowpen "Township" contained from Bebside Colliery, Kitty Brewster, Cowpen Village, Malvins Close, Cowpen Quay, Waterloo etc.
The "border" of Cowpen and Blyth ran down Plessey Road, then northwards along Union Street to the river, behind where Gasworks were .
Michael
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:)
I've never even been to Northumberland (I'm sincerely sorry to admit and hope to rectify one day sooner rather than later ;)) and this is just a wild guess, so please don't shoot me down in flames, but would it have anything to do with the name? Simply cow pen doesn't sound as nice as Blyth? :)
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You really should visit, Ruskie - best county ever (not that I'm biased, of course)
Although the place is called Cowpen round here it's pronounced Coopn (and, no, I didn't accidentally miss out the 'e') so we probably didn't even think of that one!
Christine
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You really should visit, Ruskie - best county ever (not that I'm biased, of course)
Although the place is called Cowpen round here it's pronounced Coopn (and, no, I didn't accidentally miss out the 'e') so we probably didn't even think of that one!
Christine
Yes, I believe it is. And I am bursting to visit! ;)
Coopn? ... I love this site, you learn something new every day ;D Thanks for setting me straight. Do you think it ever may have been called cow ... pen?
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My great grandmother lived in Coupon Pennsylvania, same pronunciation. It was also a coal town. My guess is that there were some cowpenites that immigrated to Pennsylvania. Interesting another town with same name--she was born in Seldom Seen, Pennsylvania - this is also the name of a village in Co. Durham.
Janis
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Yes, Ruskie, I'm sure there would have been a cow pen there at some point - lost in the mists of time, unless Michael can tell us different. The local dialect for a cow is coo so that is probably where it came from. But even folks without strong dialects call the place Coopn so the true meaning has got a bit lost.
Janis, I know a lot of people from around here went to Pennsylvania - obvious mining connection. I love finding names like that cropping up in different countries - it makes you realise that they wanted to have a little bit of the old country with them.
Christine
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Hi Michael
My name is Bob Simmons and I was born and bred in Bebside, I currently run a website www.aboutblyth.co.uk which is mainly concerned with the Blyth area.
One of my passions is finding old pictures and then taking an up to date version.
I was very interested to notice your remarks abouth the local pubs in the Blyth town centre area, The Pineapple, Globe Swan etc.
I would be very grateful if you could allow me to show some of these pictures if you are in possession of any, or possibly put me in contact with someone who has.
I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.
Best regards
Bob Simmons
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Bob,
I too was born Bebside, 1941, shifted to Cowpen Estate in 1951/2. Worked as " Boy Clerk" in Gas Board in Blyth 1958-1961. Then scooted off to London.
I had a great interest in Blyth pubs, but unfortunately had no artistic or photographic skills. So I have no photos of Blyth.
The web site communities.northumberland.gov.uk in the Blyth section contains many photos of old Blyth. Other Blyth photos are included in several local history books published a few years ago.
It was " pityackafromblyth" who raised the topic of Blyth pubs, I was only responding.
However there are a few "chatters" within this forum, who are keen on photos, so let's hope, you get a response from these fotoratti !
Michael
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Bob,
there is a 'Blyth History' thread here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,488089.msg3460481.html#msg3460481 why not try posting on there as well?
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I stand to be corrected, but Michael Dixon says that the Pineapple pub was the smallest in Blyth. Was it ? It was a pub I never went into. It was situated at the bottom of Bowes Street. The Travellers Rest, and the Buffalo were close together, facing the shipyard wall, along towards the ferry. The former was more like an hotel - possibly used by ships officers when in port ? As were the Star & Garter and the King's Head/or Arms, opposite the Polis station.
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Smallest for me was,and possibly still is, the Oddfellows Arms on Bridge street, The bar is slightly larger now they have knocked the 'middle' room wall down. They also had a 'little room. now the kitchen which could seat four or at a push five people.
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What about the Flying Horse? Could fit it into the oddfellows twice lol
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A list of pubs in Blyth and surrounding area (some corrections might be needed);
The Albion Inn, Shankhouse, formerly The Folly and Horton House.
Astley Arms, Seaton Sluice. On the site of the Boiling Well which closed 1910.
Astley Arms, Seaton Deleval.
Bebside & Cowpen Club, in the Sidney Hall 1951 - 58.
Bebside Inn.
Bebside Memorial Club & Institute. Fire closed 1970, reopened 1974.
Blackbull, Sussex Street.
Black Diamond, Newsham.
Blagdon Arms, Burt Street. Closed 1971.
Blyth & District Club, Keelman's Terrace.
Blyth Spartans Social Club, Croft park.
Blyth Spartans Supporters Club, William Street.
Blyth & Tyne, Turner Street.
Blyth Sports (Crofton) Club, Coomassie Road.
Boiling Well, Seaton Sluice, see Astley Arms.
Brewery Bar, renamed 'Pilot Cutter' 1967.
British Rail Staff Association (BRSA) Edward Street.
Brown Bear Inn, High Pans North Blyth.
BRSA North Blyth opened 1954.
Buffalo, Regent Street, rebuilt 1899.
Cambois Club, opened 1911.
Commercial Hotel, Regent (Turner) Street, closed 1973.
Conservative Club (formerly 'Constitutional') Croft Road.
Cowpen Colliery Inn, Marlow Street.
Cowpen Coronation Club, King Street.
Cowpen & Newsham Comrades Club, Wright Street. Name change 1970?
Croft Arms, Regent Street.
Deleval Arms, Old Hartley.
Duke of Wellington Club, North Farm (Burt Street from 1963).
Dun Cow formerly Brown Cow
Folly Inn, closed 1889.
Foresters Arms, Kitty Brewster.
Fox & Hounds, King Street.
Gladstone Arms, Burt Street.
Globe, Waterloo Road.
Golden Fleece, Cowpen Square.
Grey Horse
Gwentland Hotel, Wensleydale Terrace.
General Havelock, East Sleekburn.
High Street Social Club, formerly Bolckow's.
Horse & Waggon
Irish Club, Wright Street.
Isabella, Southend Ave.
Joiners Arms, Coomassie Road.
Kings Arms, Seaton Sluice. Directory of 1827 mentions the Post Office.
Kings Arms, Cowpen Road.
Kings Head, Northumberland / Bridge Street, rebuilt 1894.
Labour Club, Thoroton Street.
Link House (previously Half Moon?)
Lord Nelson, (formerly 'Dock House'?) High Quay.
Market Hotel, Market Place.
Masons Arms, Plessey / Coomassie Road.
Melton Constable, Seaton Sluice.
Miners Arms, Marlow Street.
Miners Arms, Newsham.
Miners Welfare Cowpen & Crofton, Renwick Road.
Nags Head
Newsham & New Deleval Club, Wharton Street Newsham.
Newsham Discharge Soldiers & Sailors Victory Club.
Newsham Hotel, Carr Street.
North Farm (Temple's Farm)
Northumberland Arms
Oddfellows Arms, Northumberland / Bridge Street rebuilt 1887.
Percy Arms, Kitty Brewster.
Pilot Cutter, (ref Brewery Bar).
Pineapple Inn, Regent / Turner Street.
Prince of Wales, Waterloo Road.
Queens Head, King Street.
R.A.F. Club
Railway Hotel, Regent / Turner Street.
Red House, Cowpen Estate.
Ridley Arms, Northumberland Street. Built as private house 1788, closed 1965, demolished 1968.
Ridley Arms, Cambois.
Rose & Crown, Kitty Brewster.
Royal Engineers Club, Stanley Street previously Percy Street.
Royal Tavern (formerly Hotel) Beaconsfield Street.
Sea Horse, Plessey Road.
Seaton Sluice Club, (Waterford Club 1913 - 1959)
Seven Stars, North Blyth.
Ship, Cowpen Quay.
Ship, Crofton
Sidney Arms, Cowpen Road.
Slip
Spartans Hotel, Twelfth Ave.
Station Hotel
Steamboat Hotel (Star & Garter)
Sun Inn, Gregory Street.
Thoroton, Renwick Road.
Three Horseshoes, Horton.
Travellers Rest, Regent Street.
Turks Head, Newsham.
United Services Club, Bowes Street.
Victoria Inn, (Gregory Street?)
Waggon Inn (near Police Stn)
Waterford Arms, Seaton Sluice.
Waterloo Hotel, Havelock Street.
Waterloo Road Club (Meldram House / formerly Buffalo Club)
Westoe, Burt Street.
White Swan, Waterloo Road.
Willow Tree, Newsham.
Windmill Inn, Cowpen Road.
I hope you all find it interesting looking through the list. If there should be some additions or amendments please let me know. I also hope some of the names bring back some good memories. The only pub I have fond memories of is the Kings Arms at Cowpen.
Philip :)
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blythian, I forgot about the 'horse' it is probably smaller now the Odds has been changed.
Phodgetts , That is a brilliant list. sadly I have been in loads of them ::).
The one's I see that are different now are;
Bebside & Cowpen Club. It was the first club I joined. Now a Macdonalds.
Blyth & District Club. Now closed.
Blyth Spartans Supporters Club, William Street. Closed.
Brewery Bar. Now the Quay.
British Rail Staff Association (BRSA). Now a nursing home.
Buffalo. Now a community centre.
Conservative Club. Constitutional again. I was in there last Saturday.
Cowpen Colliery Inn is now the Top House.
Croft Arms is now flats.
Duke of Wellington Club. Now South Quay nursing home.
Dun Cow. Long gone.
Fox & Hounds. Ditto
Gladstone Arms. Ditto
Globe& White Swan are now the Halifax building society and Boots the chemist.
Golden Fleece. Gone.
Gwentland Hotel is now the Ridley Park Hotel.
Kings Head. Closed.
Market Hotel. Now a branch of Iceland.
Miners Welfare Cowpen & Crofton. Now council offices.
North Farm. Gone.
Pineapple Inn. Now Westminster bank.
Queens Head now a Chinese restaurant.
Seven Stars. Gone
Sidney Arms. Gone.
Slip. Gone.
Station Hotel. Now a branch of Leeds building society.
Steamboat Hotel. Closed.
Thoroton. Now a sort of b+b.
Travellers Rest. Gone. The first pub I had a lock-in in. I wasn't even old enough!
Willow Tree.Closed but opening again. Supposedly a pub has been on that site longer than any other in the Blyth area.
I remember a Ship but can't remember which one. Do you have the street names? Also was the Black Bull at the Ballast Hill end of Sussex street do you know?
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A list of Blyth and area pubs and clubs sort of has it's own history.
Sometime in second half of 1900s, Blyth Town Boys Club,in order to raise funds, compiled a list and sold it around Blyth for 10 pence. ( I have one hidding somewhere within my filing system)
The Kitty Brewster ( on Cowpen road) used to be called the Foresters Arms.
The Bedlington section of the Northumberland Communities site, at http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005568FS.htm
shows a 1910 photo of the Rose & Crown at Bedlington.
Only problem, this pub was on the south bank of the River Blyth between Bebside Furnace stone bridge and the wooden, then iron, railway bridge. In the 1840s etc this area was called Bedlington Iron Works ( although in the Bebside part of the Iron Works.)
I think the ruins of the building are still visible ?
Michael
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Once again thanks for your knowledge Michael. I have seen that photo before but cannot for the life of me place where the pub was.
I think it was from the list you mention that I garnered the information about the Willow Tree.
I actually drank in the Foresters arms. Damp and dingy in those days.
I believe you are correct about the ruins being visible, or at least a small part of the foundations. I will look into that.
Bebside Iron Works, that is where my great grandmother is stated as living on her marriage certificate. I queried this on another thread a while ago. Thanks for the clarification.
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An outstanding list of the pubs in the area. Might sit down tonight in the kitchen with a couple of cans, peruse the list, and bring back some memories.
But blythian, one that has got me foxed is The Flying Horse. Where is it ? Or is it one of the original ones which has been renamed.? Remember when the Thoroton was called "The Burglar's Dog" ?
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pityackafromblyth, I hope you don't mind if I answer that. The Flying Horse is on the corner of Waterloo road and Thoroton street. Thoroton street (not to be confused with the pub of the same name) is the street leading to the hospital.
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Some other pub names I have come across are,
Boathouse, Golden Eagle (I remember that being built), Joe Cavner's, Taplow's Wine Bar, The Pullman.
Philip
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The horse used to be the Labour Club, dunno when the name changed though.
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blythian, I think it was in the eighties.
Phodgetts,
Boathouse was the name given to the Pilot Cutter which was previously the Brewery Bar.
Golden Eagle is still there, a carbon copy I believe of the Phoenix at Tynemouth/North Shields which isn't.
Joe Cavners was the Croft.
Pullman is now Last Orders.
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OK folks, it's time to drag yourselves out of the pubs and go back to Michael's original question because I learned something today at Woodhorn which might explain it.
A friend who was also researching discovered that they have a few copies of the old 'Blyth Scribe and Woodhut News' from 1898. In it was a heated discussion on the proposed amalgamation.
It transpires that Cowpen was on the brink of bankruptcy - through it's own mismanagement according to Blyth folk. The guys from Blyth were reluctant (to put it mildly) to join forces as they saw it as Blyth providing a financial rescue package for Cowpen at their ratepayers expense.
That's about all I managed to glean as it was closing time but it seems that Blyth had the upper hand financially and so, presumably, got to call the shots.
Christine
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Hi Christine just been reading your message. What a great name for paper and a very interesting article.
Barbara
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Surprisingly, if you google the newspaper's name there's a few articles on it. One even has a photograph of the old wooden hut which forms part of the name!
Christine
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There is reference to the Coup stream/well. Coup is also an old word for a market or to sell.
Used to love the pubs in Blyth but they are uniformly depressing now. can anyone recommend a good one for my next visit?
Regards from cold but sunny Switzerland
Alan
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I know that it's not exactly historic, but the South Beach should be added to the list. (Fulmar Drive, a typical estate pub but a welcome watering hole when the people on this estate want a drink without going to far.)
The South Beach Residents Association also have a welcoming bar/lounge.
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I found this image on a northumberland.gov website archive (Ref NRO 01215/14) - it's labelled there as being c.1920 and appears to be the Star & Garter Hotel. Unless I'm mistaken, this building is now The Quay pub on Bridge Street (Blyth's No.1 Weekend Party Venue, apparently, according to its own website).
Now I thought (and there are plenty of pictures out there of old Blyth to back this up) that the Star & Garter Hotel was in Nortumberland Street, before it was renamed the Steamboat.
Anyone knaa what was renamed what, when?
Duncan.
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I knew that as " The Brewery Bar" inj the 1950/60s.
It was supposedly the last pub in Blyth to brew it's own beer !
The Star and Garter was about 100 yds turning right.
Michael
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Links to fotos of Blyth pubs.
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005420FS.htm
Star and Garter in middle, kings Head beyond, from the south
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005363FS.htm S & G tallestest building
on left hand side street. From the north.
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005364FS.htm.. that "building at back of foto. Shot from proximity of today's library
. Lookinwest towards Hedley Young department store building
These last two , camera person had back to Brewery Bar.
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/006264FS.htm
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005357FS.htm
Michael
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The pub in the photo is definitely The Quay now, it was, as Michael says, the Brewery Bar and in between times it was The Pilot Cutter.
Christine
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...it was The Boathouse prior to becoming The Quay ...wasn't it?
It was the Brewery Tap for the Blyth & Tyne Brewery Company, their Bonded Warehouse was behind it in Sussex Street, later taken over by Bell, Dunn & Keenleyside, Ships' Chandlers and now turned into flats.
I played in the Boathouse's Sunday morning football team in 1983-4 .... :'(
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Yes, it was the Boathouse too.
I have a list of Blyth pubs done by Blyth Town Boys Club in 1974 which says it changed from the Brewery Bar to the Pilot Cutter in 1967. Presumably then the date for the change to the Boathouse was between 1974 and 1983.
I'm assuming you only gave up the football because the Boathouse changed it's name to the Quay ;D
Christine
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I didn't give up football .... it gave me up. ::)
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Links to fotos of Blyth pubs.
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005420FS.htm
Star and Garter in middle, kings Head beyond, from the south
This photo of the (Northumberland Street) Star & Garter is dated c.1900 compared to the picture of the (Brewery) Star & Garter which is dated c.1920. But the (Northumberland Street) building was the Star & Garter within Michael's living memory, so the (Brewery) pic must be much earlier than labelled. Or not the Star and Garter at all...
Here's a list of inns, taverns & public houses for "Blyth and neighbourhood" transcribed from the 1828/29 Pigot's Commercial Directory:
Bear (High Pans)
Black Bull (Blth - sic)
Coal Wagon (Foley)
Dun Cow (Blyth)
Half Moon (Blyth)
King's Arms (Cowpen Green)
King's Head (Blyth)
Lord Nelson (Blyth)
Nag's Head (Blyth)
Phoenix (Blyth)
Red Bull (Keelman's Row)
Seven Stars (North Blyth)
Ship (Blyth)
Ship (North Blyth)
Star & Garter (Blyth)
Turk's Head (Blyth)
Waterloo Hotel (Waterloo)
Back to the original post, and assuming that pubs tend to be located where the bulk of the population lived, it seems that even in 1828/29 Blyth rather than Cowpen was the label of choice, at least for Messrs Pigot. The accompanying text refers to "A considerable portion of the town of Blyth extends into the Township of Cowpen, in the parish of Horton. The population of the place must therefore be taken including its several suburbs which, in 1821, contained together 3,000 inhabitants."
Duncan.
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The Start & Garter has only ever been the building on what is now called Bridge Street (till recently the Steamboat Inn) opposite the police station. Postcode for it is NE24 3AE.
I think in your picture post, that the mention of the Start & Garter Hotel is just an advertisement poster. Why it should be on another pub or brewery building in Blyth I do not know, but it is certainly not the S & G.
Here is an picture of the place not all that long after it was built. Note in the background that the BHC office building was not even built. That came along in 1912/13 for opening in 1913.
P
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But if your c.1900 photo was taken shortly after the building opposite the police station was built, then there must have been an older Star & Garter somewhere else because the Pigot's Directory says that one Margaret Bower was the proprietress of the Star & Garter in Blyth in 1829...
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And talking of that 1829 Pigot's list of pubs, there's one listed as the Red Bull, Keelman's Row. Now, I've seen old maps of the area with "The Buffalo" at the end of Keelman's Row, an ancient row of cottages that used to run roughly along the line of Regent Street.
If it's the same pub, rebuilt or renamed, and "Red Bull gives you wings", I suppose they must be Buffalo Wings.
... I thank you...
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Well, I've had a shufties at that picture you posted and I have made myself crosseyed and bewildered trying to work out what that advertisement is for on the Blyth & Tyne Brewery building.
It says;
Star & Garter
Hotel
Commercial & Residential
L?
Dining Room?
Private Car Park
GARAGE
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I think the "L" word is Luncheons.
"Free Car Park" and "Garage" have some slight relevence to this, because car parks and garages in 1829 weren't exactly great hooks for passing trade on account of the relative lack of motorised traffic before cars were invented.
So I think you're right, it's got to be an advert. Surely the brewery would only have advertised it if they owned it as well, so maybe that was it - good pint here, brewed on the premises, you want a bed for the night? look no further than 200 yards to your right.
I found a map online of Blyth from 1860 and there's a P.H. on the right spot in Northumberland Street, so maybe the 1829 building was in the same spot. Flood damage? Fire maybe?
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Some snippets.........
Pigot's Trade Directory of 1834 lists only one "Inn" .. the S & G
All the other watering places are listed under "Taverns and Public Houses."
I am no expert on advertising, but your gem ( S & G) which is out of site from the centre of Blyth, round a couple of corners, needs a bit of help.
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005364FS.htm
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005363FS.htm
Even the Blyth Railway Station is on the other side of town--- and anyway was
situated in Cowpen.
Target population for brewers etc...
For 1901 census Blyth Urban District pop numbers 5472, for 1911 6985, then for 1921, by sleight of hand, jumps to 31822 ! This is a result of the merger of the more populous Township of Cowpen with the Township of Blyth.
The 1860 ordnance survey map shows the border between the two udcs before the merger , in 1908 ( i've forgotten !)
Philip, when mail was delivered to Blyth in C18th, where did the postie sound his horn to summons the addressees ?
I am in Scotland doing a wee bit of research in Scottish pubs.
Like Alisdair I played football for pub teams ( Cowpen Colliery Inn, The Thoroton, Bebside and Cowpen Social Club- but I got most of my knowledge of local pubs from playing darts- home and away !
Michael
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Philip, when mail was delivered to Blyth in C18th, where did the postie sound his horn to summons the addressees ?
All I know about the postal system for 'Blyth' comes from John Wallace. He wrote that no post was delivered to Blyth prior to 1780. After 1780 it would seem (reading between the lines) that arrangements were made to meet with the Morpeth stagecoach once a week when opportunity was made to receive post and also to send it out of the area. Perhaps that meeting took place at the Three Horse Shoes up on the old turnpike.
Around about 1800 it seems that arrangements were made for the post to get to Blyth via Shields three days a week by a postman on horseback. On arrival in the town he would sound his horn and then get off his horse outside the Star & Garter and stand atop the mounting steps there. As people gathered he read out the names of those for whom he had mail. Apparently it was a close knit community with a wonderful gossip-vine, and apparently young women perhaps expecting letters from young male admirers paid the postman not to read out their names. So the Blyth girls weren't by any means 'daft'!
Wallace went on to say that by the end of the war (I assume 1815) Blyth was receiving post daily. A certain Mr Sheraton was Blyth's very first Post Master, a room being boxed off in the Star tap-room, a hostelry run by a George Hills. He used to get quite upset by the youth of the day who would taunt him by asking "any news from the Hague". His ill temper goaded even more by them repeating the question. No change in kids irritating adults in the last 200 years!
Blyth received just a handful of post on post days circa 1800, but by 1861 Wallace records that letters passing through Blyth amounted to 190,750. Inward letters totaled 99,500 and outward 91,250.
Wallace also records that upwards of 2000 families were within the catchment area of the Blyth office delivery area.
So, in all probability the original Star / Star & Garter was on the same site as the 'modern' building. Perhaps the redevelopment of the pub was made possible with profits from the post office at that time renting space from the landlord. However, as the port was growing quickly in that era, accommodation would be required for all manner of professionals.
Wonderful little snippets to digest from John Wallace.
P
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A Star & Garter advertisement from about 1930, though the picture of the hotel is much older.
Note at the bottom of the advert that the Star & Garter's proprietors were the Blyth & Tyne Brewery Co. Ltd. So that gives us an answer to that query, hence the advertisement on the side of their brewery building. I like it when these little loose ends get all tied off.
P :)
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Very neat indeed!
I'm guessing Northumberland Street used to be the main thoroughfare into the town before the Waterloo Bridge was built and then the Gut drained. There's a Google digitised book The History of Blyth online which has some references to the Star & Garter and a stone quarry that was behind it that seem to be around 1730, so it's obviously seen a bit of action over the years. Shame it's all boarded up now.
Thanks all for helping get to the answer.
Duncan.
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Kelly's Trade Directory , Northumberland, 1938.
Brewery Bar, PH, ( Jas Carmichael) Blagdon St.
Royal Hotel, PH, ( Jas Carmichael) Beaconsfield St.
Michael
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Exciting news for this thread. I just acquired an old photograph of 'The Ship' public house at Blyth. But which one, Crofton or Cowpen Quay?
All you have to do is choose which size you'd like to view it;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/14213719743/sizes/l
Enjoy
P
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I was born in Newsham, and l am sure that the the township of the said Newsham is a lot older than both Cowpen/Blyth. Therefore I think that it should of been NewshamUDC. To cover both of them! Mind you the only place to of had a council office would of been the old Plaza, Black Diamond, or the old working mans club. Just a thought?
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Because Cowpen is a pretty stupid name ?
And although Blyth was smaller at the time, it may have been a longer-established place.
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Blyth was a wet land swamp till around 1600 only shows how much the history of Blyth is known, or not known. My granddad used to tell me about how Newsham was in fact the capital of the world. Oh happy days when we all had nowt.
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Mike Dixon has a lot more info on this lol. Cowpen was a heck of a lot bigger than it is today, the dividing line was Union Street next to the bus station, the other side being blyth. In 1907 Cowpen merged with Blyth and they took on Blyth's name (we've debated the reasons why it was Blyth and not cowpen used). As for Newsham, it was attached to Blyth at some point as far as i'm aware, but don't take my word for it, someone will likely correct me haha :)
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Just picking up on this post re meaning of Cowpen. When I was a bairn I remember Father Dunne the priest at St Cuthberts incorporating the history of the Sydney family in his Sunday sermons. One of the things I recall him saying was that the monks from Tynemouth priory had salt pans on the river and the locals used to swap( cowp in Geordie) goods for salt hence the name COwPEN . He was a massive NUFC supporter and I remember him bringing Frankie Brennan to St Cuthberts school to present us with an archery set for some reason
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Just thinking, the Manor of Newsham was bigger than "Blythsnook", Blyth was just the area at the tidal inlet off the river (again, Union Street heading towards Cowpen Square), the slither of land that is now Bridge St, etc was the "Snook". Maybe Blyth came to be so big since Ridley/White were pumping so much money into the place??
[Correct me if i'm mis-informing here, this is how i understand it though lol]
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Blyth Snook (various spellings over the years like 'Snuke') was on North Blyth on the shore side behind the Seven Stars public house facing onto Shinny Gripe Lug and Crab Law Rocks.
You can see it's location on this version of the OS Map of 1896.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101027304
Hope this helps with the exact location of the Snook. ;D
I assume a 'snook' was like a lump of land, nose or bulbous promontory. The 'snook' no doubt would have be a useful feature for sailors being able to identify and navigate that part of the Northumberland coast given the generally featureless and low lying shore.
P
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.....the monks from Tynemouth priory had salt pans on the river and the locals used to swap( cowp in Geordie) goods for salt hence the name COwPEN .
That's such a revelation! Even though we pronounce it "Coop'n" I could never understand why a village would be called after a shed where cows live.
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The name Cowpen is not an easy one to explain.
I have to refer to information in John Wallace's book The History of Blyth.
Before Richard the Lion Heart left for Palestine in 1190, he granted 'Copun' to monks of St Oswin's.
Wallace stated that 'Cowpen' has been a place of importance since Saxon times.
He mentions "couping" which was an ancient form of bartering, or exchanging one commodity for another.
A Salt Pan was granted at 'Cupun' by King John in 1201. Also mentioned was the 'Cup-well'.
In 1240 "Cupun" was accounted in the Barony of Bolam.
About 1240, James de Bolam granted the canons of Brinkburn Salt Pans at 'Cupun' which involved the Bishop of Durham.
By 1307, Brinkburn and Tynemouth Priories had Salt Works at 'Cupen'.
By 1428 it was 'Coupowne'
By 1560 they were spelling it 'Coopon'
By the 19th Century it was 'Cowpen'.
Additional information, it is not a Pen in which to put Cows! Hehehe. I made that mistake myself.
It is also believed that the name 'Cowpen' might originate from an Old Norse-Scandanavian word 'kupa', which means cup or bowl. The word is also used to describe a cup-like depression or valley in the ground, and this might well make reference to the earliest saltpans in the area or perhaps the lay of the land. The word 'kupa' also has connections with the Swedish 'kupa' meaning a small cottage or household. So both phrases 'at the hollows' or 'at the cottages' have relevance.
In reality, no-one can say for sure now, where the name originates.
I hope you have found it interesting despite being no further forward after reading that little lot.
P
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Please regard this as a non-scientific contribution to the topic of origin of name of Cowpen!
Just like cowpenexile I remember Father Dunne giving us local history info from his pulpit- this in mid-late 1940s. But in my memory he declared that Cowpen was named after Copenhagen. I think us kids liked this source better than cowping and salt pans.!
I have mislaid my handy book " Goodwife Hot- The History of Northumberland in its Place Names"
And unfortunately my book " A Dictionary of English Place-Names" by A.D Mills, has no entry for Cowpen, but includes one for Cowpen Bewley, near Stockton-On-Tees. Cowpen pronounced same as Cowpen near Blyth.
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" Cowpen Bewley, Cleveland, "cupum" c1150 = place by the coops or baskets ( for catching fish)
Old English cupe "
Before Cowpen and Blyth merged in 1907 , Cowpen's territory covered the River Blyth's riverside from Bebside to just behind Blyth modern day bus station.
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Having lived at all three place s ie Cowpen Newsham and Blyth at various times, I have some interesting memories of all three. I remember when as a boy around 1950 ish watching when they pulled down the old wooden workingmans club in Newsham, thousands of rats ran from underneath it. They ran over the railway crossing and went under the old Plaza cinema.
I do enjoy reading all your coments of how the area has been developed over the years.
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For those interested in old pictures of Cowpen and Blyth, I have just got myself an old picture postcard of the Sidney Arms at Cowpen from about 1898 - 1900. A lovely picture with loads of detail and the backs of Tweedy Street showing too.
I have scanned it at 1200dpi and a cropped section of the image at 2400dpi. You can see it here;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/15711274052/sizes/l
https://www.flickr.com/photos/51893012@N05/15709830365/sizes/l
The Sidney Arms was originally called The Duke of York and showed up as such on the 1865 map of the time.
Wonderful stuff. Enjoy.
P
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Philip,
Great fotos, as usual !
Sidney Arms, my father's local after he fell out with the Foresters Arms (now named Keitty Brewster Hotel.
About 50 yrs after the foto, Tyneside Drive was opened on right of foto as first entrance into Cowpen Estate. Our family moved to 8 Weardale Ave. The first 50 houses or so were let to folk
from the west end of Bebside colliery village and Bebside Furnace community.
Before St Cuthbert's RC church was built, c1840, mass was sometimes celebrated in the Duke of York.
Michael
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I always look forward to your posts Michael. Thanks for sharing that.
As for Mass at the pub, where ever the spirit goes, there you will find me. Hick! ;D
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Blyth pubs. I have just spent far too much time on the web looking into the history of H.M. Submarine Seahorse, and its connection with Blyth and also the Astley Arms, at Seaton Sluice. The penny has just dropped, and I assume that I am correct in thinking that The Seahorse pub on Plessey Road, was named after the submarine ??
And as a result of trawling the web I have learned that of all the submarine bases in the UK during WWII, Blyth suffered the greatest losses.
Is the Seahorse still open ?
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Check this out pyfb
http://www.theseahorseblyth.co.uk/
P
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Pit yacka Last time I was up in Blyth I had a carvery at the Astley (vg by the way) and in the lounge there are a load of press cuttings, artefacts and memrobilia re submariners in Blyth during ww2 I take it the Wind Mill is now gone but my favorite was always the Odd Fellowes always reckoned it was the best pint in Blyth. Im surprised theres not much comment on here re the CIU filleted clubs in the town as memories of Carlin Sunday Xmas draws and bands at the Duke and Band Room etc do bring back some memories .Rue and the Rockets Tex Leon and the Tyne Siders The Sixteen Strings (lad from my class at St Wilfrids in them) all provided the back ground music to hopeful dances and painful knock backs
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Re the Windmill pub, not gone but closed, went past it yesterday and there is scaffolding around it. Not heard what it is going to be, but something going on .. another butchers I wonder?
watch this space, Dolly x
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I had heard that it is being converted into either one or possibly two retail units. I passed it a few days back and there were workmen beavering away (I KNOW!) but no outside indication as to what it is going to be. I want want want that old pub sign though.
P
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Windmill: Nisa Local/Convenience Store and Post Office. Second unit is rumored to be a Greggs or Take Away.
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oh well pleased it's not a butchers,
Phillip I'll see what I can do about the old pub sign! ;)
Dolly
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Just an update to confirm that the second unit in the Windmill will be a Greggs :) (pending approval)
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Just wondering if Dolly has managed to secure that pub sign for me yet......
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Sorry P, but each time I go past there , there aint anyone around..
Why dident you ask the workman what happens to these article's when you were in Blyth, they would probably give you it for a fiver !!
If I do see anyone around I will ask, but mind the cold is heading our way, and Dolly doesen't
do cold weather.
Fingers crossed, Dolly
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I passed the Windmill today on my way to Woodhorn. Dolly is right - not a workman to be seen.
The good news, though, is that the sign is still there ;D
Christine