RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: linzib on Sunday 19 June 11 14:41 BST (UK)
-
Hello.
I am trying to find the birth or christening records- or anthing else for a william bracegirdle born around 1845. He states that he was born in Macclesfield, Cheshire England on 3 consecutive censuses, but i cant find a birth record for macclesfield. He married Elizabeth Ann Bamford in macclesfield and they had 5 sons that i know of. Does anyone have any info on any of these people. Thankyou Lyndsey.
-
Ok. lets fill in a bit more.
Did you find any before-marriage census entries? (what are they)?
"He married Elizabeth Ann Bamford in macclesfield".
When , What names witness, who is shown as his father?.
Pauline
-
Hello Lyndsey and welcome to Rootschat.
I think this must be their marriage,so we have some timeframe to work from ;D
Marriages Dec 1871
Bamford Elizabeth Ann Macclesfield 8a 250
Bracegirdle William Macclesfield 8a 250
Carol
-
I fink he's William Bracefieldle in ancestry 1871. a grandson.
-
Is this him in 1881?
At 4 house 10 court Park Lane Macc.
Everyone b Macc.
William Bracegirdle 38 (b 1843) gardener
Elizabeth A. Bracegirdle 28
William Bracegirdle 7
George Bracegirdle 5
Charles Bracegirdle 3
Thomas Bracegirdle 3
Joseph Bracegirdle 1
RG11/3495 folio 109 page 24
Carol
-
I fink he's William Bracefieldle in ancestry 1871. a grandson.
I would agree with that Pauline-looking at the image it clearly says Bracegirdle.
This time it says he's born in Knutsford.
They are in Park Lane Macc,and grandad is a gardener,William is a labourer(don't know what at though!)
Carol
-
Hi Lyndsey
On the 1881 census there are as follows
William Bracegirdle aged 38 Dom Gardener
Elizabeth Ann 28
William 7
George 5
Charles 3
Thomas 3
Joseph 1
living at 4th house 10 Park Lane, Macclesfield.
There are three potential William Bracegirdles born around that time in Cheshire. They are listed on the Cheshire BMD which is a free site but limited info without getting the birth certificate.
Two were born between 1840 and 45 and the other one is below born 1837.
One of the 1840 to 45 was born in Knutsford as mentioned and I am unable to find
it registered on my site to read more information, you may have to buy the birth certificate to help you along. The reference is KNU/3/42.
I then found the following which is a parish next to Northwich.
William Bracegirdle, born Witton-cum-Twambrooks, Cheshire on 30th October 1843
christened 26th November 1843. Northwich didnt become a Parish until 1900 and the Church probably used was called Witton St Helens or St Marys. Seemingly quite a few small Parishes used this Church and then formed their own in later years.
regards Sandymc
-
Is this him in 1881?
At 4 house 10 court Park Lane Macc.
Everyone b Macc.
William Bracegirdle 38 (b 1843) gardener
Elizabeth A. Bracegirdle 28
William Bracegirdle 7
George Bracegirdle 5
Charles Bracegirdle 3
Thomas Bracegirdle 3
Joseph Bracegirdle 1
RG11/3495 folio 109 page 24
Carol
That's exactly what I typed out Sandy at reply #4
;D ;D ;D
We are of course waiting for the OP to come back and tell us if they have the marriage cert which would tell us who his dad was!
Carol
-
I comprende Carol, but I started that post at 15.00 and it took me the rest of the time to find the birth so didnt delete the beginning as when I posted it didnt show yours. ::)
regards Sandymc
-
Thanks for all the prompt replys.
Didn't think anyone would read it for a while so i have only just read them. Thankyou.
Yes that is the william on the 1881 census, joseph is my gr grandfather he married ethel hillman and they had charles william b 1905 my grandfather.
Not got any thing for an 1871 census. I am going to look at your leads now thankyou again. lyndsey
-
Hello Lyndsey and welcome to Rootschat.
I think this must be their marriage,so we have some timeframe to work from ;D
Marriages Dec 1871
Bamford Elizabeth Ann Macclesfield 8a 250
Bracegirdle William Macclesfield 8a 250
Carol
Linzib ,do you have this marriage cert,so we know who his father was and what he did?
And also the witnesses please,as they are often family members.
He has been found in 1871 by Pauline last Sunday.
We're quick here ;D ;D ;D
Carol
-
BRACEGIRDLE William BAMFORD Elizabeth Ann 1871 Sutton, St George Cheshire East Cheshire 1084/3/199
Hi carol8353
i have viewed this marriage cert at macclesfield library, this is what was written-
Williams father: William Labourer . Elizabeth's father: George Bamford Weaver. witnesses were: Charles Reece and Eliza Reece.
-
Hello I have not found any william bracegirdles in the censuses for 1861 or 1851. Has anyone had any luck. syill looking for any clues as to where he was born and to whom. lyndsey
-
Did you attempt to track the 1871 grandparents backwards?
If you were unable, then transcribe the entry in full here, and we could try.
Pauline
-
I then found the following which is a parish next to Northwich.
William Bracegirdle, born Witton-cum-Twambrooks, Cheshire on 30th October 1843
christened 26th November 1843. Northwich didnt become a Parish until 1900 and the Church probably used was called Witton St Helens or St Marys. Seemingly quite a few small Parishes used this Church and then formed their own in later years.
regards Sandymc
FindMyPast has the Cheshire Baptisms and I have just viewed this one,the parents are Peter and Mary...so not the right William then.
-
BRACEGIRDLE William BAMFORD Elizabeth Ann 1871 Sutton, St George Cheshire East Cheshire 1084/3/199
Hi carol8353
i have viewed this marriage cert at macclesfield library, this is what was written-
Williams father: William Labourer . Elizabeth's father: George Bamford Weaver. witnesses were: Charles Reece and Eliza Reece.
does it give bride and bridegrooms ages ?
-
BRACEGIRDLE William BAMFORD Elizabeth Ann 1871 Sutton, St George Cheshire East Cheshire 1084/3/199
Hi carol8353
i have viewed this marriage cert at macclesfield library, this is what was written-
Williams father: William Labourer . Elizabeth's father: George Bamford Weaver. witnesses were: Charles Reece and Eliza Reece.
Luckily - St Michaels ,Macclesfield has records on
www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb
database
baptism
bamford
search - go to page 4
Elizabeth Bamford baptised 3rd october 1852 -parents George and Sarah
GEORGES occupation is a Weaver...could this be her ?
allan
-
Just checked for William Bracegirdle on the same site....no luck
one baptised 1850 but father was James a Publican
allan
-
Thanks everyone.
Have got these-
1881-
4h/10c Park Lane(next door to 355 Park lane ) Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
William Bracegirdle- domestic gardener 38 Elizabeth A. Bracegirdle 28 William Bracegirdle 7 George Bracegirdle 5 Charles Bracegirdle 3 Thomas Bracegirdle 3 Joseph Bracegirdle 1
1871 -
355 Park lane Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Edmund Massey 69 Mary Massey 76 William Bracegirdle 27 gr son
1861
355 Park lane Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Edmund Massey 60 Mary Massey 66 Thomas Okell 15 gr son
1851
Meg lane Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Edward Massey 49 Mary Massey 53 William Okell 32 son John Massey 26 son William Okell 8 lodger Thomas Okell 5 gr son
1841
soss moss Nether Alderley, Cheshire, England Edmund Massey 35 Mary Massey 40 Ellen Massey 10 Eliza Okell 9 Joseph Okell 8
Edmund and Mary were both widowed at the time of their marriage-
1837 26 June
Marriage to Mary Okell
Prestbury, Cheshire, England
widowed marriage to Mary Okell witnesses were William Leigh and Sarah Okell
Have been trying to find okells or massey married to bracegirdle ,nothing yet its driving me round the bend !!!!!!!
-
I cannot see any immediate connection, but will throw this family into the mix because of the coincidence of names.
In my husband's tree I have a Sarah Okell Massey bpt 19 Jan 1834 at St Thomas Heaton Moor Stockport, daughter of William Massey (bn 1795, died after 1861) & Mary Turner (bn 1798, died between 1851 & 1861)
I have assumed the "Okell" came from the Turner side of the family, as one of Sarah's brothers has his paternal grandmother's maiden name as a second name, and another has Turner as a second name
-
Hi
I'm still having trouble trying to trace any of the relatives of the Massey's
Can anyone help please???
1816 22 Oct
Marriage to John Okell
Over, Cheshire, England
1827 1 Jul
burial of John Okill
1832 Jul
birth of Eliza
Daughter of Mary Okell widow born july 19 1832 old withington (viewed at macclesfield library)
1837 26 Jun
Marriage to Edmund Massey
Prestbury, Cheshire, England
widowed marriage to Mary Okell witnesses were William Leigh and Sarah Okell
1841 6 Jun
Residence
Alderley, Cheshire, England
soss moss Nether Alderley, Cheshire, England Edmund Massey 35 Mary Massey 40 Ellen Massey 10 Eliza Okell 9 Joseph Okell 8
1851 30 Mar
Residence
Meg lane Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Edward Massey 49 Mary Massey 53 William Okell 32 John Massey 26 William Okell 8 Thomas Okell 5
1861 7 Apr
Residence
Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Edmund Massey 60 Mary Massey 66 Thomas Okel 15
1871 2 Apr
Residence
355 Park lane Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
living with husband edmund a gardener and grandson william bracegirdle labourer Edmund Massey 69 Mary Massey 76 William Bracefieldle 27
1881 3 Apr
Residence
355 Park lane Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Mary Massey 86 Thomas Okel 35 gr son Thomas O. Sawyer 10 grt gr son
Does anyone know of this family???
-
1881 3 Apr
Residence
355 Park lane Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Mary Massey 86 Thomas Okel 35 gr son Thomas O. Sawyer 10 grt gr son
Did you note the entry above this family was William BRACEGIRDLE
gr son Thomas O. Sawyer 10 grt gr son
When he died his address was given as Gawsworth New Hall / John Okell was a game keeper/, William Bracegirdle is shown as a gardener, maybe it may be worth looking at the Estate records in the area to see where they were employed... Capesthorne / |Tatton / etc.
-
Hi
Thanks for looking at my message.
I had noted that William Bracegirdle was living next to the Masseys in 1881 as this is the only other record i can find for him at the moment i thought that this line of enquiry was the most logical . i've been looking for months obviously in the wrong place . i'm not sure where and how to look for estate records.
will keep trying.
-
This is my husband's Bracegirdle line:
Name: Thomas Bracegirdle
Christen: 2 Feb 1727 Northenden, Cheshire
Death: Oct 1768 Northenden, Cheshire
Burial: 21 Oct 1768 Northenden, Cheshire
Marriage: 2 Oct 1754 St Wilfrid's, Northenden, Cheshire (Northenden is now in Greater Manchester)
Spouse: Sarah Whitelegg
Christen: 2 Feb 1727 Northen Etchells, Cheshire
Burial: 21 Oct 1768 St Wilfred's, Northenden, Cheshire
Father: James Whitelegg
Children:
1: William Bracegirdle
Christen: 12/26 Feb 1755 Northenden Of Gatley, Cheshire
----------------------------------------
2: Margaret Bracegirdle
Christen: 24 Apr 1757 Northenden Of Gatley, Cheshire
----------------------------------------
3: Alice Bracegirdle
Christen: 6 May 1759 Northenden Of Gatley, Cheshire
----------------------------------------
4: Thomas Bracegirdle
Christen: 3 Feb 1761 Northenden Of Gatley
Spouse: Elizabeth Lucas
Marriage: 9 Mar 1784 St Mary's, Stockport, Cheshire
----------------------------------------
5: Sarah Bracegirdle
Christen: 7 Feb 1763 Northenden Of Gatley
Burial: 19 Oct 1780 Northenden
----------------------------------------
6: Isaac Bracegirdle
Christen: 3 Mar 1765 Northenden Of Gatley Parish Registers
Burial: 27 Mar 1853 Northenden Church Yard, Cheshire
Occupation: Weaver
Spouse: Sarah Worsencroft
Marriage: Apr 1792 St Mary's, Stockport by licence
----------------------------------------
7: James Bracegirdle
Christen: 10 Jan 1768 Northenden
-
Apologies if this duplicates your previous posts somewhat. I've truncated the data to accentuate the timeline and my thought processes/deductions:-
1816 John Okell mar Mary Leigh
1817 William son of John and Mary Okell born and bp
Feb 1827 Emma bp dtr of John and Mary Okell
1827 John Okell bur
1827 Emma Okell dtr of John and Mary Okell bp
1832 Eliza Okell bp. She thus would seem to be the illegitimate dtr of Mary Okell; maybe likewise Joseph (see 1841 census) - though I haven't found his bp yet
1837 Edmund Massey (previously mar to Ann) mar wid Mary Okell
1841 census. Edmund Massey 35 + Mary 40 Ellen 10; also Eliza Okell 9, Joseph Okell 8
1846 Thomas Okell bp [illegitimate] son of Emma Okell (no father named). [Emma would be the dtr of John and Mary Okell].
1851 census. Emma Okell's son Thomas is grandson in Edmund & Mary Massey's household; William Okell 32 b Snelson (bp 1817) in the same household is Mary's son by her marriage to John Okell; 'lodger' William Okell 8 b Wilmslow is a mystery but I guess he might be:-
1871 census. 'grandson' William Bracegirdle 27 b Knutsford in Edmund and Mary Massey's household
(nb 1861 census. Wm Bracegirdle/Okell not satisfactorily found on FindMyPast. ancestry??)
1871 William Bracegirdle 27, father William Bracegirdle, mar Elizabeth Ann Bamford
Significantly, I can't find a William Bracegirdle of similar age, and with a father William, in the 1851 census. So I think this lends weight to his being the William Okell age 8 in Edmund and Mary Massey's household. (I can't be sure but I don't think he's the Wm Okell son of Wm and Martha Bracegirdle bp Aston-by-Sutton 1842 - doesn't 'feel right', wrong part of Cheshire).
1881 Wm (age 38 b 'Macclesfield') and Elizabeth Ann Bracegirdle are living next door to wid Mary Massey 86 + her grandson Thomas Okel 35 + gt gd-son Thomas O Sawyer
John and Mary Okell's known children, mostly bp Chelford abode Old Withington, are:-
William 1817 (abode Snelson)
Sarah 1819
Mary 1823
Anne 1825
Martha 1827
Emma 1827
Mary Okell's illegitimate children:
Eliza 1832
and, conjectural based purely on the 1841 census, Joseph abt 1833
Alas, it doesn't get us any further in establishing who were the parents of William Okell/Bracegirdle, but I reckon he might be the critical link in your Massey/Bracegirdle quest. Possibly an illegitimate son of WB snr by one of the Okell children, who then took his father's surname in preference to Okell? Was either never baptised or maybe non-conformist? Otherwise try BMD, eg:-
Macclesfield 1842-1 19,108 (William Henry Bennison Okell)
Altrincham 1844-4 18,15 (a male Okell)
Stockport 1845-4 19,277 (William O'Kell)
Altrincham 1843-1 XIX,18 (William Bracegirdle)
There are other records for both WO and WB between 1841-1851 but the ones above seem the closest matches. I haven't cross-checked them against parish records for baptisms of WO or WB around the same time.
Happy hunting.
-
Hi Lyndsey,
Sorry for the intrusion but I came across a public family tree you have submitted for the Percival family from Knutsford. My wife is related to them, so I wondered what your connection is.
Kind regards
Richard
-
Hi
I have some information on Tom Okell born 1846
He was my great grandfather
I also knew Thom Sawyer and also his son Cyril, I am 78 so was quite young when (we called him uncle Cyril) had used to visit us. He then lived in Coventry, and I think he had two daughters
I hope this information is useful
-
Hi Liz
My great grandmother was Harriett Dickens, married to Tom Okell