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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: ivory99 on Wednesday 29 June 11 15:50 BST (UK)
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In spite of diligently searching Ancestry and Family Search, I am unable to find the parentage of this man. Ancestry says "no parents", and Family Search is also unable to find them. According to the Ancestry records he was born in Newport Pagnell in 1785, and married Elizabeth Brey in 1808. Their son William Henry was born in 1809. These are the ancestors of my father, and I am trying to go back as far as possible. At one time he was living in Leicester Forest. He obviously had some parents, and ther must be a record of them......somewhere. So if anyone likes a challenge, I would be very appreciative if they would have a go! By the way, he died in 1858 in Dalston, Cumberland, if that would help.
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According to the Ancestry records he was born in Newport Pagnell in 1785, and married Elizabeth Brey in 1808. Their son William Henry was born in 1809.
At one time he was living in Leicester Forest.
By the way, he died in 1858 in Dalston, Cumberland, if that would help.
Hi
I am confused (not difficult ;D )
You are looking for Thomas Tilley bn 1785, died 1858 Dalston, Cumberland. According to freebmd there is no death for a Thomas Tilley in Dalston area at this time and no sign on the 1851 of him born Newport Pagnell. The only information I can see on Ancestry that confirms this is someones tree so subject to confirmation.
I presume that you have details of William Henry, I see he was born in Newport Pagnell according to the 1861 census at which time his widowed mother Elizabeth was living with him.
You say Thomas was in Leicester Forest, when was that? Where did he marry Elizabeth?
Rosie
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Can't find a death 1858, Cumbria, but the following look good matches:
March qtr 1840
Newport Pagnell vol 6, page 301
Thomas Haines Tilley
March qtr 1867
St George in the East, London Vol 1c, page 327
Thomas Tilley age 82 (so born c 1785)
June qtr 1869
Christchurch, Hampshire Vol 2b, Page 358
Thomas Tilley age 84 (so born c 1785)
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Thomas Tilley Elizabeth Brey both of leicester Forest married 11 Apr 1808
this maynot be your Thomas Tilley
Where was son William Henry born??
Suz
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there is IGI extracted
William Henry Tilley born Jan 1809
Christened 13 Nov 1809
St Martin in the Fields Westminster
parents Thomas Tilley & Elizabeth Austin
there is also a William Tilley b.c. 1809 Leicester
Maybe these families have become muddled???
Could you give us details of your Tilley descendant who you are certain about- from later census and maybe we can check further for you
Suz
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Now I am confused! I know there are/were many Tilleys in the Leicester area, but I am basing my search on the information supplied by my cousin, who is an experience genealogist, so my family is also his. He states that Thomas Tilley and Elizabeth ????? marrried, but not when. A man of that name married to Elizabeth Brey had a son William Henry Tilley. Elizabeth was at that time "a widow and fund holder living at 4, South Place, Hackney"according to the 1861 census.The information I have says that Thomas was born in Newport Pagnell in 1785, his son William Henry born Newport Pagnell in 1809, his parents being Thomas and Elizabeth.
This whole thing seems to be getting messier and messier, and could mean that the Leicester trail is quite wrong. I am quite new to this game, but judging by the number of stars by your names, you are not. I don't want to give up, especially as I have traced my mother's' family back to the 17th century, even though her name was a common one.
As my father's family lived in London, I think Suzard's reference to the London christening is most probably the best bet, though his mother's maiden name was Austin and not Brey.W. H. was living in Shoreditch in 1841 with his second wife, Mary Cooper, who was 10 years older than her husband. I have traced, through census returns, their son, John Cooper Tilley, to my father, who was born in Hackney in 1895.
My sincere thanks to you all for your help, as a result of which, I will be doing some more checking, and hopefully, this time will not encounter any more mazes or brick walls,
If anyone has any more helpful suggestion, they would be much appreciated.
Ivory
, but not when
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Hi
Going backwards...
Is this yours
Thomas Edward Tilley
Birth 7th May 1895
Death Nov 1988 - Taunton Deane, Somerset
Rosie
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In 1901 RG13 Piece 1616 Folio 75 Page 34
82 Dunedin Road, Leyton, Essex
Thomas Tilley 29 bn Dalston, London
Alice Tilley 29 bn Bethnal Green
Thomas Tilley 5 bn Hackney
Frederick Tilley 4 bn Hoxton
Alice Tilley 2 bn Poplar
Vera Tilley 1 bn Poplar
Marriage
Thomas James Tilley Age 22
Spouse Alice Isabel Schofield Age 22
28th October 1894
St John the Baptist, Hoxton
Groom Father John Cooper Tilley I am on the right track then ;D
Spouse Father Edward William Schofield
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I think I can see where the error has been made possibly
1861
4 South Place hackney
Elizabeth Tilley head widow 78 Fund holder Newport Pagnall Bucks
William H son W 52 Gas Fitter Newport Pagnall Bucks
John C Tilley grandson 21 Shoreditch
RG9 155 93 18
trying to find Elizabeth in 1851 but cannot locate her
BUT
1851
there is an Elizabeth Tilley widow age 68 living in Leicester and b. Hollaton Leics she is a pauper
I think possibly this Elizabeth has been mistaken for Elizabeth b Newport Pagnell
will check some more
Suz
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1851
HO107 Piece 1534 Folio 98 Page 32
4 Edward Street, Shoreditch
William Tilley 42 bn Newport, Bucks Gas Fitter
Mary Tilley 52 bn ?, Northamptonshire
Thomas Tilley 19 bn Shoreditch Gas fitter
William Tilley 17 bn Shoreditch Gas fitter
John Tilley 11 bn Shoreditch
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Baptism: John Cooper Tilley at Shoreditch St Leonard on 16 July 1841, age 18 mths, son of William Henry and Mary, of Edwards St, gas fitter
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Strange, but in 1841 William and Mary both at Edward Street, Shoreditch (both born Middlesex) but no sign of baby John. ???
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Do you have a copy of the marriage of William Henry Tilley to Mary Cooper in 1839 - if so what details does it have for his father and who are the witnesses
I think this is the death you refer to for Thomas,
Deaths September qtr 1858
Tilley Thomas Hackney 1b 186
you would need the certificate to confirm he is yours. I think you mean Dalston, Middlesex and not Dalston, Cumberland :-\
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Hi
William Tilley born 9 Jan 1809
bapt 11 Jan 1809 newport Pagnell
father Thomas mother Elizabeth.
extracted record.
cannot see where they are though on a census.
Tazzie
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Hi ...
Rosie ..... what are the HO numbers for the 1841 census please so I can scan through nearby pages.
Only I have a family split over 3 pages where they have not been scanned in order and it places the youngest child with another family and the transcriber just copied the name .
thanks Tazzie
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Hi ...
Rosie ..... what are the HO numbers for the 1841 census please so I can scan through nearby pages.
Only I have a family split over 3 pages where they have not been scanned in order and it places the youngest child with another family and the transcriber just copied the name .
thanks Tazzie
HO107 Piece 709 2/33 page 21 :) It is William and Mary by then though Tazzie as he is on his 2nd marriage
Don't know how I missed that IGI christening ::) ;D
Rosie
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I can't account for the absence of baby John's name in 1841, as he was born the year before. I suppose it is possible that he may not have been in the house on the day the census was taken...maybe he was in hospital..who knows? In 1866 he married Elizabeth Yorke.
I do not have a copy of the marriage certificate of W. H. and Mary Cooper, but Ancestry has details, and source information, so I have no reason not to believe that Thomas Tilley was not his father, also that his mother- I now believe- was Elizabeth Austin, and not Brey.
It is Ancestry which states that Thomas died in Dalston, Cumberland, but it must be Dalston Middlesex.
I have discovered in my searches that the London Tilleys moved around a lot, as I have several different addresses for them over the years, which could explain why some of them don't seem to exist where I expect them to be.
You are right about my more recent family, and yes, my father did die in Taunton in 1988...I was there at the time.
I am sure you are right about the two Elizabeths being mixed up (like me!) and the Leicester connection must be forgotten by me, so I have thrown away a fair amount of paperwork concerning it.
The Tilley saga is continuing, and there is more investigating to do as I want to go back as far as I can. Thank you all for your interest and help, which is really appreciated.
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I can't account for the absence of baby John's name in 1841, as he was born the year before. I suppose it is possible that he may not have been in the house on the day the census was taken...maybe he was in hospital..who knows? In 1866 he married Elizabeth Yorke.
I do not have a copy of the marriage certificate of W. H. and Mary Cooper, but Ancestry has details, and source information, so I have no reason not to believe that Thomas Tilley was not his father, also that his mother- I now believe- was Elizabeth Austin, and not Brey.
It is Ancestry which states that Thomas died in Dalston, Cumberland, but it must be Dalston Middlesex.
You say John married Elizabeth Yorke in 1866 but freebmd has this so it is probably Eliza James
Marriages Sept qtr 1863 Hackney 1b 597
Cartwright Richard
Hall Catherine
JAMES Eliza
Tilley John Cooper
I only asked about the marriage for William to confirm we should be looking for his father as Thomas, Tazzie has now however found the baptism that we were after. The Ancestry info on Thomas's death is on someones tree and not extracted info so always to be treated with suspicion, they obviously clicked the wrong place box when submitting it.
So back to looking for Thomas father of William H, do you have him on census anywhere if so where?
Rosie
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Hi
I am having doubts over the death of Thomas in 1858 and wondering if it has just been assumed by the person who posted it on their tree on Ancestry that it was 'his' Thomas. :-\
I can see a couple of possible Elizabeth Tilleys in the 1841 census without husbands. There are also some Thomas Tilley deaths on FindMyPast index prior to 1841 that could be him. Obviously if you have him on census prior to 1858 then I am barking up the wrong tree.
Rosie
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I have just been looking at the Posse Comitatus for Bucks from 1798...
There are no Tilley family listed for Newport Pagnell.
Bootmakers/cordwainers are listed. There are Tilleys in Haversham about 2 miles away so maybe connected back a generation. A William is also baptised in Haversham in 1808 but can account for him.
As for who Elizabeth was ..... Austin or Brey.... well he was baptised in Newport Pagnell so unless baptised twice I think they can be discounted.
It is possible Thomas died prior to 1841 census but I cannot find Elizabeth ...only on 1861 with William and family.
I havent made it up to the records for ages as I now work but I will have a dig around and see if I can find anything.
Tazzie
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I have been checking all the printing I have done in the pursuit of my family, and things are beginning to gell.The Newport Pagnell Thomas,(b.1785) does seem to fit together with other information which I have.
Something rather interesting has just occured, however when I checked him on Ancestry. I discovered to my amazement, that I have, in an official capacity, been contacted by the owner of the tree....he lives locally. I have sent him a message, and hope he will contact me...unofficially. It could be that we are, perhaps, remotely related...at least we seem to have an ancestor in common.
If anyone is interested to know the outcome of this, just ask!
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I am sure we are all interested, it is always good to see where these paths lead.
Rosie :)
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I have just spent an hour with a man who is related to me through William Henry Tilley and lives 50 yards from my home. I haven't been able to find the early Thomas, but at least something good has come from my efforts. We are obviously keeping in touch....not difficult!
Ivory
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Hi ....
found some removal orders around the time of Thomas' birth...
Elizabeth & Sarah Tilley r/o to St Cuthberts Bedford 1785
Ann Tilley to St Martin in the fields Middlesex 1789
Burial Sarah Tilley aged 75 on 26 Oct 1864 widow
a note that the widow Tilley was excluded from Newport Pagnell Independant Chapel in 1835.
Tazzie
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Hi, Tazzie,
Thanks for the information.....interesting, but rather vague...not your fault!
I fear that short of a miracle, I may never get back to Thomas' ancestors, but I suppose i have not done so badly to get as far as I have.
Ivory
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Hi ...
as he did not show up in Newport I looked to see if anyone of the name was local at the time but as you see no clues there either. Let us know how you get on.
Tazzie
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My third cousin and I have met a couple of times, made notes, and will be persuing new avenues.
Thank you for your interest, and what a good idea Rootschat is!
Ivory
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I know this thread is old but I was referred to it as it mentions my Tilley family. Especially trying to get in touch with @ivory99. I am also related to John Cooper Tilley and have a full family tree. I am new to this site but it would help if someone could put us in touch.
Thanks!
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Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
Ivory99 was last online in February 1915.
It's possible they may get an email notification of your post - as long as their email address is the same ::)
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Thank you. What a shame, I think I could have helped.