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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: MEW53 on Thursday 11 October 07 21:00 BST (UK)
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I am new to researching and I am trying to locate info on Isabella Montgomery who was my father's grandmother. She married James Veighey and they had a son also called James (b 1887 - Dunaweel, Killeshandra Co Cavan - Ireland). James was an only child. I have a copy of James' birth certificate (1887), and Isabella is the mother on the certificate.Isabella was related to the famous General Montgomery 'Monty' from Donegal. I've seen old photos of my father's brother who was born in 1920 (William James Veighey) and there is a very strong family resemblance between him and 'Monty' Isabella married again after my great grandfather died, her second husband was called Gibson. She had a sister called Mary Ann who lived in The Cottage in Dunaweel with the rest of the Veighey family I have checked various censuses and other records I cannot find any information on either of the James Veighey's. My father told me yesterday that Isabella had a niece Annie that married Douglas Smith the founder's son of Rington's Tea in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong place any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Margaret
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http://www.groireland.ie/ - have you tried to get hold of the marriage certificate of Isabella and James?
Which censuses have you looked at? As far as I can tell the 1901 for Cavan is only available on microfilm - so might be difficult to find them if they'd moved around some.
As to the Smiths - Samuel Smith, the founder, who was born in 1872 in Leeds, did have a son Douglas (his second) who inherited the business. It is still run by the family, so you could try contacting them.
http://www.ringtonscentenary.co.uk/timeline.htm - Douglas, son of Samuel, took over the business aged 50 in 1949 when his father died, to be succeeded by sons Norman, Douglas Jr, and Jonnie.
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Hi,
Thanks for the info, I have looked at the 1891 census using the Ancestry website, which I have just subscribed to. I looked on the site you suggested and as I do not know dates when James Veighey married Isabella Montgomery and the site does not support genealogy inquiries I am a bit confused. However I have emailed Ringtons Tea in Newcastle for information. On their website which you pointed me to, they had a shire horse called 'Monty' and as I am trying to find a link with General Montgomery to my family this could be a very good link. My father has given me a photo of Isabella Montgomery, it is not a very good photo but it is a start, I will use the photo restoration group for help.
Thanks for your help.
Margaret
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If you are looking for them in Ireland the 1891 census on Ancestry won't help - the 1891 Irish census was destroyed, Ancestry don't have any of the Irish censuses to my knowledge.
For the Irish BMD's it looks like you would have to go there, or alternatively order the films through an LDS centre, or hire someone (ie. http://www.irish-roots.net/cavan.asp ).
There are some entries on the IGI - for example, there's an Isabella Montgomery born 5 May 1865 Arvagh, Cavan, parents James Montgomery and Isabella Shaw. However, without the marriage it's hard to know if this might be her or not.
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Hi,
Thanks for your help.
The town Arvagh is very close to Killeshandra where my parents were born so this Isabella Montgomery you have found could be my great grandmother as she gave birth to James Veighey in 1887. You mentioned the IGI - is this something I have to subscribe to - as I am new to this family research I am not sure what it means.
Thanks
Margaret
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This is a shot in the dark that MEW53 will see this message after such a long time. I read with great interest that you believe you have an Isabella Montgomery with a connection to General Montgomery. Please can you send a PM as I have a very interesting tale to tell you. Regards VB
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This is a shot in the dark that MEW53 will see this message after such a long time. I read with great interest that you believe you have an Isabella Montgomery with a connection to General Montgomery. Please can you send a PM as I have a very interesting tale to tell you. Regards VB
Hi VB,
I was so pleased to get a reply on this thread today as it is nearly 4 years since it was posted!
Strange how things happen, my father passed away a few weeks ago and he always believed there was a link with General Montgomery, so I am eagerly awaiting any information that you may have.
Thanks
Margaret :)
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VB, I'm interested in your tale too.
Could you please PM me the same?
My father used to tell enquirers that we were related to General Montgomery too, but that we were "cousins 52 times removed".
If your father only 'believed' you were related, and you have no proof, please don't be disappointed if it turns out just to be a dream
:( :( :D :D
Dawn M
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Hi
I dont know much about using this facility, however on searching some details the above 2 names came up registered to you. I am Isabella McQuillan Lindsay (nee Anderson), my mum was Mary Stuart Anderson (nee Montgomery) born 1931 and my grandmother was Isabella Montgomery (nee McQuillan) I think born 1895 a connection through 3 generations to each of the names you have listed. My grandfather William Montgomery died 1943 and I dont know any other history going back. Just trying a lot of options and trying to track information if I can.
Cheers
Belle
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Hi Belle,
Sorry for the delay in replying my Broadband has been down for a while.
Sounds interesting what you have to say. do you have any idea where your relatives lived.
I see you have only made 1 post so we cannot use the personal message system yet till you have made 3 postings.
My great grandmother Isabella Montgomery was married twice as her first husband died very young.
Anything else you can add would be really helpful. Have you looked on the free 1901 & 1911 Irish census?
Look forward to hearing from you soon.
Margaret
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Hi Margaret,
I too am seeking a link between my great, great, grandmother Catherine Montgomery and Bernard Law Montgomery. Catherine was born in Swanlinbar Ireland 15.3.1815. She married William Armstrong 2.10.1834. They lived at a property called Woodlodge in county Cavan Ireland and had 13 children. When William died Catharine Armstrong aged 55 left for Australia and arrived on the Percy in 1870 with children George Edward aged 16, Henry Charles aged 14 and Mary Rowina Martha aged 7. I am an Armstrong (my surname and fourth name) but my third name is Montgomery. As is my fathers. Several of my relatives also have the Montgomery name though they are Armstrongs. Henry Hutchinson Montgomery, Field Marshal Bernard Law Montgomery's father was Bishop of Tasmania. It is believed that the Tasmanian Montgomerys often visited the Armstrongs settled in Australia. Regards, Rob
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Hi Margaret,
I too am seeking a link between my great, great, grandmother Catherine Montgomery and Bernard Law Montgomery. Catherine was born in Swanlinbar Ireland 15.3.1815. She married William Armstrong 2.10.1834. They lived at a property called Woodlodge in county Cavan Ireland and had 13 children. When William died Catharine Armstrong aged 55 left for Australia and arrived on the Percy in 1870 with children George Edward aged 16, Henry Charles aged 14 and Mary Rowina Martha aged 7. I am an Armstrong (my surname and fourth name) but my third name is Montgomery. As is my fathers. Several of my relatives also have the Montgomery name though they are Armstrongs. Henry Hutchinson Montgomery, Field Marshal Bernard Law Montgomery's father was Bishop of Tasmania. It is believed that the Tasmanian Montgomerys often visited the Armstrongs settled in Australia. Regards, Rob
Hi Rob,
It is very strange how nothing has happened on my post for so long and now more information is appearing. Unfortunately my father passed away eight weeks ago at 87 and he was trying to help me with the Montgomerys. I am sure Swanlibar was close to where my father grew up. I also know that there were several Armstrongs who lived near my where my father grew up.
Regards
Margaret
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Hi Margaret,
I'm sorry to hear of your fathers passing. Coincidentally my father is 87 and has been helping with our family research. And yes there were certainly a number of Montgomerys and Armstrongs in the area.
Catherine Montgomery's father was John Montgomery born 1792 at Swanlinbar, died 8.8.1877. His tomb is in the church yard at Swanlinbar. His wife was Susan (unknown surname) born 1794, died 28.4.1879. Swanlinbar is a small village on the N87 national secondary road in north-west County Cavan, Ireland, close to the Cladagh river and near the Fermanagh border.
cheers,
Rob
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I am new to researching and I am trying to locate info on Isabella Montgomery who was my father's grandmother. She married James Veighey and they had a son also called James (b 1887 - Dunaweel, Killeshandra Co Cavan - Ireland). James was an only child. I have a copy of James' birth certificate (1887), and Isabella is the mother on the certificate.Isabella was related to the famous General Montgomery 'Monty' from Donegal. I've seen old photos of my father's brother who was born in 1920 (William James Veighey) and there is a very strong family resemblance between him and 'Monty' Isabella married again after my great grandfather died, her second husband was called Gibson. She had a sister called Mary Ann who lived in The Cottage in Dunaweel with the rest of the Veighey family I have checked various censuses and other records I cannot find any information on either of the James Veighey's. My father told me yesterday that Isabella had a niece Annie that married Douglas Smith the founder's son of Rington's Tea in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong place any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Margaret
I Live in the townland, Laheen next to Dunaweel wood . My husband and especially my late father in law remembered the Veigheys of Dunaweel as employees of Lord Farnham. My interest is in that work and the woodland . I hope you can respond Margaret so I may explain further, Yours, Heather
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Hi Heather,
It is good to hear from you.
I’d forgotten about this old post, however I have found out more on since I posted this in 2007 but not on Isabella.
My grandfather James Veighey who I never met worked for Lord Farnham, he was a coachman on the estate.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Margaret
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Thank you very much for getting back to me .Yes I'm probably a bit on the wrong post as I have no genealogy information, sorry. However the Veigheys I was told had responsibilities for the game and woodlands as Gamekeeper, for Lord Farnham in Dunaweel, which interests me. Maybe this is not what you know, or he possibly had lots of other duties depending on the season.
Heather
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Welcome to RootsChat, Heather :)
I Live in the townland, Laheen next to Dunaweel wood .
This is Dunaweel townland in Killashandra CP.
https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/tullyhunco/killashandra/springfield/dunaweel/
OP, this hasn't been linked yet!
The 1911 census for Isabella Gibson and James Veighey.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Springfield/Dunaweel/341031/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001714817/
Marriage of Isabella Veighey in 1894.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10563/5848042.pdf
Isabella Gibson passed away in 1942, aged 88. Informant was her son James Veighey.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1942/04689/4250504.pdf
KG
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Thanks KG for the information, I’ve struggled with Isabella’s family and I have already seen the 1901/11 census information before but not Isabella’s death which my grandfather was present at according to the link you provided.
Isabella had a sister called Suzanna, she married John (surname not to hand at moment) and they had 2 daughters Annie and Ethel.
I appreciate your help.
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George's will i believe his wife is Isabella Ellis marriage not found
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/wr/007604230_00245.pdf
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Thank you very much for getting back to me .Yes I'm probably a bit on the wrong post as I have no genealogy information, sorry. However the Veigheys I was told had responsibilities for the game and woodlands as Gamekeeper, for Lord Farnham in Dunaweel, which interests me. Maybe this is not what you know, or he possibly had lots of other duties depending on the season.
Heather
Laheen,
Don’t worry about the genealogy information, however I am interested in the information that you may have on my Veighey family. James my grandfather was a gamekeeper and was responsible for the woodland area. My father used to talk about Lord Farnham a lot, the cottage was like a grace and favour cottage that came with the job. I have a photo of the family home when when my Dad was young.
Any information you may have would be useful.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Margaret
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Thank you. The wood was not sold until 1958 to the forestry. I'm limited by only having what we remember of my late father-in-laws tales . He died in 2014. He was a contemporary of Ida I believe , certainly talked about her.
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Hi Laheen,
You have me really intrigued now.
Aunt Ida passed away in January 2019, the last of my Dad’s siblings.
My Dad used to tell me a lot of tales Dunaweel.
As you have posted 3 times now you can use the private message system.
I’ll send you a private message soon.
Thanks for your interest, family history research goes in phases, it’s goes quiet then someone joins and it starts the thread again.
Margaret
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Here’s a mention of Dunaweel Wood in Google books.
‘Guide through Ireland’ by James Fraser (Dublin) 1838
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pj3/
KG
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Thanks KG for the google maps information, I hadn’t seen it before.
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I have more info:
Isabellas Father was George Montgomery (Dunaweel b 1814 d 1878 ) who married Isabella Ellis (Portlongfield) 27/2/1843.
They had many children. I know of:
William b 21/1/1844 m Elizabeth Smyth 1866
a "son" b 20/4/1845 couldn't decypher the name
Fanny 28/6/1846
Richard 1847 died aged 34
Eliza 19/5/1850
John 20/6/1852
Isabella 20/8/1854 (Your Ancestor)
George 18/5/1856 (died 1861)
Margaret 19/9/1858 (My G Grandmother m Thomas Sheridan moved to Newcastle Senior Policeman Loads more info inc photos)
James 28/7/1860
George 20/2/1863
Mary 8/9/1864 (mental disability see census 1901/1911)
Susannah 4/4/1869 (moved to newcastle stayed briefly with Margraet/Thomas 1891 census married a policeman John Symon. She died at "Dunaweel", Jesmond Park East, Newcastle. Not her habitual address so suspect she was being looked after by a child.
Susannah and John had a daughter Annie in 1902. She sounds like she could the Rington Tea connection (my father told this story too). I plan to check that out now.
The detail I have shared is based on a personal visit to the Church of Ireland record office back in 2014 and is not available online. I have more than I can put into this email and I mean to go back and complete the research as the parish records go back to the 18th century.
I have pinched your photos of the house in Dunaweel - hope you don't mind as I am certain it is where my G Grandmother grew up.
Hope this of interest - but I am also interested in any info you may have too.
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I should have been more confident.
Annie Symon married Douglas Smith, Scion of Ringtons Tea family in 1923 in Newcastle.
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George and Isabella had another daughter Deborah.
She married Robert Henry Roden in wigan! On 17/9/1864. Her aunt Eliza Ellis was witness. Father George Montgomery, Farmer. Eliza probably wielding a shotgun since their eldest, William, was born q1 1865. They returned to ireland to live in dunaweel 1901 & 1911 census (neighbours of sister isabella and sister in law Amelia). Deborah died in 1934 aged 89.
This opens the possibility of using the "family naming convention" to trace George and Isabella Ellis parents.
We have first son William (named after George father?)
Second son illegible (named after Isabella father malcolm). Needs another look at the RCB record to see if Malcolm possible.
First daughter Deborah (named after Isabella mother deborah)
Second daughter Fanny/Frances (named after George mother?)
There is really strong candidate in William Montgomery & Frances Matchett of Drung (15miles away). Their tree can be traced with certainty back to a Richard Matchett in the early 18th century.
Their son george's baptism is consistant with his age at death. Parents names consistent with FNC; also every childs name bar 1 is reflected in the names of George & isabella's children too. George not native to killashandra - he took job of inspector btw 1841 (not in census) and 1843 (marriage to isabella).
Hope this makes sense. Just a theory atm.
Also hoping picked up by MEW53 and GRACE63 who I suspect are distant cousins of mine. Would be delighted to hear from them.
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George and Isabella had another daughter Deborah.
She married Robert Henry Roden in wigan! On 17/9/1864. Her aunt Eliza Ellis was witness. Father George Montgomery, Farmer. Eliza probably wielding a shotgun since their eldest, William, was born q1 1865. They returned to ireland to live in dunaweel 1901 & 1911 census (neighbours of sister isabella and sister in law Amelia). Deborah died in 1934 aged 89.
.......
There is a Maggie Jane Roden who was one of the witnesses at the marriage of isabella Montgomery Veighey when she married John William Gibson in 1894.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10563/5848042.pdf
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Sounds like quite the little colony of Montgomeries and their close relatives. My own great grandmother Margaret Montgomery married near neighbour Thomas sheridan in birkenhead before moving to newcastle to join the police.
The youngest Montgomery girl , susannah, followed them to Newcastle marrying another policeman, John Symon. I am trying to track down cousins who might be able to throw light on a series of family of family photographs. Any help appreciared.
David