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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Drop Bear on Tuesday 19 July 11 01:21 BST (UK)
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Greetings to all.
I am tyring to solve the mystery of what an actual address was of my Great Grandparents. The following is the details from the certificates I have of their childrens births, census & Grandpa's death:
1892 - Where born - 102 Sheildmuir, Parish of Dalziel (No mention of St, Rd, Ave etc)
1894 - Where born - 102 Shieldmuir, Parish of Dalziel (No mention of St, Rd, Ave etc)
1898 - Where born - 63 Shieldmuir (Nothing else)
1899 - Where born - 63 Shieldmuir (Nothing else)
1901 - Census - 92 Shieldmuir
1902 - Where born - 92 Shieldmuir (Nothing else)
1907 - Where born - 63 English Buildings, Shieldmuir, Dalziel
1907 - Where died - 63 English St, Craigneuk, Dalziel
Could someone please enlighten me as to where they might actually have lived?
Kind regards,
Liz
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I think it is a street.
This website may help answer some questions Liz.
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/index.php?page=1¤t_set=1&p_name=dalziel&p_type=PARISH&cache_name=111parishdalziel717&per_page=100&id[]=717
Deb ;D
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Thank you Deb.
From that website I see that there is a Church on Shieldmuir St. I had a look on Google Earth and there is a Shieldmuir St and English St runs off that. I am now wondering if back in the late 1800's, early 1900's whether the "English Buildings" was perhaps on the corner of Shieldmuir & English Streets being as how there is a 63 Shieldmuir & a 63 English as addresses. I am willing to accept that they perhaps lived in "Shieldmuir Street" but a don't understand the changing numbers.
Regards,
Liz
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Hi Liz,
Shieldmuir is an area next to Craigneuk - which was once a village. They are now both, for postal address reasons, within the town of Wishaw. Historically, they were both in the civil parish of Dalziel (for registration and other parochial reasons such as poor relief). Looking on an old map the names run thus - Motherwell, Flemington, Craigneuk, Shieldmuir then Wishaw.
The English Buildings were on Shieldmuir Street (the main Motherwell to Wishaw road) and were a group of tenement buildings of various sizes, very sub-standard homes for working-class people. They were demolished in the 1950s. Shieldmuir St is just a continuation of Craigneuk St. The name English refers to the property owner and has nothing to do with England.
The addresses 63 and 102 Shieldmuir makes me think of the old miners rows. They were often described that way. The changing numbers are probably because people changed houses so often in those days. If I were to move home now, I would require at least 6 weeks to pack, back in 1899 people could put everything they owned on the back of a donkey cart in an hour.
If you let me know the family names you are research in Craigneuk/Shieldmuir I will have a look for more information.
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Most town dwellers did not own property, but rented.
The family could just have moved from one to another (and back) over the years, not necessarily living in the same rooms.
Most families could move all their possessions on a handcart then!
Linda
Snap Lodger :)
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Hi Liz,
Shieldmuir is an area next to Craigneuk - which was once a village. They are now both, for postal address reasons, within the town of Wishaw. Historically, they were both in the civil parish of Dalziel (for registration and other parochial reasons such as poor relief). Looking on an old map the names run thus - Motherwell, Flemington, Craigneuk, Shieldmuir then Wishaw.
The English Buildings were on Shieldmuir Street (the main Motherwell to Wishaw road) and were a group of tenement buildings of various sizes, very sub-standard homes for working-class people. They were demolished in the 1950s. Shieldmuir St is just a continuation of Craigneuk St. The name English refers to the property owner and has nothing to do with England.
The addresses 63 and 102 Shieldmuir makes me think of the old miners rows. They were often described that way. The changing numbers are probably because people changed houses so often in those days. If I were to move home now, I would require at least 6 weeks to pack, back in 1899 people could put everything they owned on the back of a donkey cart in an hour.
If you let me know the family names you are research in Craigneuk/Shieldmuir I will have a look for more information.
Lodger, I don't know how many times you have come to the rescue, and living in Australia, I cannot thank you enough.
My Great Grandparents are Richard Jordan & Elizabeth Hanson. When they married (Richard was a widower)1st May 1891. he lived at 85 Shieldmuir.
The 1892 birth was their son Richard
The 1894 birth was twin sons Francis & John
The 1898 birth was their son Joseph
The 1899 birth was their daughter Elizabeth
The 1902 birth was their daughter Jane (Jeanie)
The 1907 birth was their son James
The 1907 death was Great Grandpa Richard Jordan
By the way, on Great Grandpa's death, I don't suppose you would know where he is buried. (No pressure, just a thought)
Kindest regards
Liz
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Hi Liz,
Can't find any mention of the 1907 death in the Cambusnethan records, his parents names would help and his 1st wife's maiden surname. There are 3 Jordans in the 1922 street directory.
J. JORDAN, care of Devaney, 77 English Buildings.
R. JORDAN, c/o Ritchie, 4 English Buildings.
J. JORDAN, c/o Mallon, 97 English Buildings.
Not much there I'm afraid, all lodgers! :D
Do you know anything more about the James born 1907?
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Hi Lodger,
Richard Jordan was born about 1859 in Bilston, Staffordshire although I do not have 100% confirmation of that as yet. His parents were Samuel Jordan & Elizabeth Talbot (Although the marriage certificate says Turbot). He was first married to Eliza Cashmore 12th January 1878 in Tipton Worcestershire. They had 4 children, Elizabeth, Samuel, Florence & Rachel. Eliza died 9th September 1889, 8 Albert St, Shettleston, Lanark. Richard then married Elizabeth Hanson 1st May 1891, Avon Street, Motherwell. They had the children mentioned in my previous post. Richard died 19th September 1907, 63 English St, Craigneuk, Dalziel. Their son James was born 1st April 1907, 63 English Buildings, Shieldmuir, Dalziel. James married Elizabeth McLaughlan 14th June 1929 Eastwood, Lanark. On his marriage certificate his address was 42 Ladysmith Street, Wishaw.
After Richard died, my grandmother Elizabeth Hanson/Jordan married John Wylie 6th January 1909, 19 Howard St, Glasgow. Both were listed as living at 96 English St, Shieldmuir, Wishaw. Elizabeth died 5th November 1951, 37 Ladysmith St, Craigneuk.
Please let me know if you require any more information as I have all birth, death and marriage certificates for Richard, Elizabeth and all their children except for the birth of Great Grandpa Richard. Verifying English research is so much harder than Scottish.
Kindest regards,
Liz
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Hi Liz
Just come across this thread and think it is possible that my grandfather Frederick William CASHMORE was cousin to Eliza Cashmore born Tipton, first wife of Richard JORDAN. I believe her parents to be Thomas CASHMORE and Ann MILLWARD/MILLARD. I would be very grateful for any details you can give me. I would be delighted to give you more CASHMORE info, but as this was a first marriage, it is probably not of interest.
Kind regards
Lise Leresche
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Extracted from the 19th century burial records for Cambusnethan cemetery, Wishaw.
6 internments in plot C680. (All dates are of internment).
ANN CASHMORE. Housewife, Shieldmuir, aged 54 years, married.
Parents - John Millard & Jane Stanton.
8th September 1887.
ELIZABETH CASHMORE. Shieldmuir, aged 2 years & 10 months.
Parents - Thomas Cashmore & Jane Bowie.
19th March 1888.
MARTHA ANN CASHMORE. Shieldmuir, aged 13 months.
Parents - Thomas Cashmore & Jane Bowie.
24th March 1888.
JOHN SIDEBOTTOM. Motherwell, aged 1 year & 7 months.
Parents - George Sidebottom & Mary Ann Cashmore.
20th October 1894.
THOMAS CASHMORE, blacksmith, Shieldmuir, aged 70 years, widower.
Parents - John Cashmore & Mary Ann Fleet.
25th May 1899.
ANDREW CASHMORE, Shieldmuir, aged 10 months.
Parents - Thomas Cashmore & Jane Bowie.
5th April 1900.
1 internment for plot E562.
THOMAS CASHMORE, Wishaw, aged 18 months.
Parents - George Cashmore & Susan Reilly.
4th August 1898.
(There are other Reillys buried in this plot, if you want the details contact me)
1 internment for plot E3235.
JAMES REILLY, coal miner, Wishaw, aged 39 years.
Parents - John Reilly & Mary Malone.
12th January 1914.
Plot owner - Susan Reilly or Cashmore, 105 Berryhill Rows, Wishaw.
Hope this helps,
Lodger
According to the 1911 Motherwell street directory -
THOMAS CASHMORE, smith, (blacksmith) lived at 40 English Buildings, Craigneuk.
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Thank you so much, Lodger. This is marvellous.
I was not really expecting to be given THIS much info and am really grateful as this more than confirms my fairly vague information on Thomas CASHMORE's branch. I had difficulty in finding info after the move to Motherwell. After many years of stunted growth, this branch is taking off nicely thanks to your help!
I'm a willing taker for any CASHMORE or SIDEBOTTOM records in particular.
Kind regards
Lise
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1901 census
Thomas Cashmore 39 Head born England Occupation: Blacksmith
Jane Cashmore 37 Wife born England Occupation: Blacksmith Wife
Albert Cashmore 11 son born: Scotland, Lanarkshire
William Cashmore 9
Maria Cashmore 6
Alice Cashmore 4
Fred Cashmore 23 visitor born England Occupation: Blacksmith
Address: Shieldmuir Shaws Land
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1891 census
Thomas Cashmore 29 Head born Staffordshire occupation Blacksmith
Jane Cashmore 26 born: England
Thomas Cashmore 2 born Motherwell
Albert Cashmore 6 Mos
Address: No 43 Castlehill Fews
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1891 census
George Sidebottom 41 Head born England Occupation: Steelworker
Mary A Sidebottom 36 wife born England
Thomas Sidebottom 2 son born: Dalziel, Lanarkshire
Address: 195 Windmillhill St Motherwell
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From the 1922 Wishaw directory (which was almost like a votors roll)
A. Cashmore, 174 Kirk Road.
G.H. Cashmore, 105 Berryhill Row.
G. Cashmore jnr; 105 Berryhill Row.
J. Cashmore, 105 Berryhill Row.
T. Cashmore, 5 English Buildings.
T. Cashmore, c/o Thomson 14 English Buildings.
Thomas Cashmore, 5 English Street.
William Cashmore, 387 Glasgow Road.
No sign of any Sidebottoms in Motherwell or Wishaw in the 1922 & 1925 directories.
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Death for George which can be viewed on Scotlandspeople to confirm parents names
1897 SIDEBOTTOM GEORGE Male aged 46 at DALZIEL /LANARK
and also Mary
1904 SIDEBOTTOM MARY CASHMORE Female aged 51 at DALZIEL /LANARK
son John that Lodger posted
1894 SIDEBOTTOM JOHN Male aged 2 at DALZIEL /LANARK
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This is marvellous.
Thank you both very much for your help.
I am totally unfamiliar with research in Scotland and never thought that I would get this sorted so quickly.
Kind regards
Lise
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1901 and more Cashmores living nearby
George Cashmore 31 Head born England Occupation: Nailmaker
Susan Cashmore 28 wife born: Ireland
John Cashmore 3 son born Cambusnethan
George Cashmore 1
Patrick Lilly 18 boarder
Francis Lilly 16 boarder
Joseph Lilly 14 boarder
Robert Lilly 11 boarder
Address: Belhaven View Glasgow Rd Wishaw
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1891
Thomas Cashmore 60 Head born England occupation Blacksmith
George Cashmore 21 son born England Occupation: Nail Maker
Abraham Cashmore 18 son born England Occupation: Nail Maker
Annie Cashmore 23 daur born England Occupation: House Keeper
Fanny Cashmore 15 daur born: England
Fred Thomson 14 grandson born England
Benjamin Millard 63 boarder born England Occupation: Hammerman
Address: 61 Shieldmuir
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Millard is such an unusual name in this area, I checked the Cambusnethan burials again.
Plot E1369.
WILLIAM MILLARD. Coatbridge, aged 7 years & 6 months.
Parents - Joseph Millard & Sarah Crossan.
23rd June 1915.
ELIZABETH MILLARD. Wishaw, aged 1 year.
Parents - Joseph Millard & Sarah Crossan.
5th February 1908.
Plot E1822.
STILLBRON LANNIGAN.
Parents - Samuel Lannigan & Roseanne Millard.
13th August 1915.
I couldn't find any Millards in the 1922 or 1925 Motherwell & Wishaw directories but there was a family of Millwards at Flemington Street, about half a mile from Shieldmuir.
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Hi Lodger,
Richard Jordan was born about 1859 in Bilston, Staffordshire although I do not have 100% confirmation of that as yet. His parents were Samuel Jordan & Elizabeth Talbot (Although the marriage certificate says Turbot). He was first married to Eliza Cashmore 12th January 1878 in Tipton Worcestershire. They had 4 children, Elizabeth, Samuel, Florence & Rachel. Eliza died 9th September 1889, 8 Albert St, Shettleston, Lanark. Richard then married Elizabeth Hanson 1st May 1891, Avon Street, Motherwell. They had the children mentioned in my previous post. Richard died 19th September 1907, 63 English St, Craigneuk, Dalziel. Their son James was born 1st April 1907, 63 English Buildings, Shieldmuir, Dalziel. James married Elizabeth McLaughlan 14th June 1929 Eastwood, Lanark. On his marriage certificate his address was 42 Ladysmith Street, Wishaw.
After Richard died, my grandmother Elizabeth Hanson/Jordan married John Wylie 6th January 1909, 19 Howard St, Glasgow. Both were listed as living at 96 English St, Shieldmuir, Wishaw. Elizabeth died 5th November 1951, 37 Ladysmith St, Craigneuk.
Please let me know if you require any more information as I have all birth, death and marriage certificates for Richard, Elizabeth and all their children except for the birth of Great Grandpa Richard. Verifying English research is so much harder than Scottish.
Kindest regards,
Liz
1901 census and Anc* has them transcribed as Gordan
Richard Gordan 45 head born Staffordshire occupation sheet roller
Elizabeth Gordan 30 wife born Glasgow
Samuel Gordan 21 son born Dalziel
Rachel Gordan 16
Richard Gordan 9
John T Gordan 7
Mary Ann Gordan 5
Joseph Gordan 3
Elizabeth Gordan 2
Jane Hanson 21 visitor born Glasgow
Annie Hanson 15 visitor born Glasgow
Edward Rodger 23 lodger born England
William Thompson 23 lodger born England
Samuel Lowe 30 lodger born England
John Cavanagh 25 lodger born Wishaw
Address: 92 Shieldmuir
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Hi Liz
Just come across this thread and think it is possible that my grandfather Frederick William CASHMORE was cousin to Eliza Cashmore born Tipton, first wife of Richard JORDAN. I believe her parents to be Thomas CASHMORE and Ann MILLWARD/MILLARD. I would be very grateful for any details you can give me. I would be delighted to give you more CASHMORE info, but as this was a first marriage, it is probably not of interest.
Kind regards
Lise Leresche
Hello Lise,
I apologise for any delay in getting back to you as I am researching other branches of my tree as well with other posts on here and I do not seem to be getting all e-mail notifications of posts.
As for Eliza Cashmore, I have not followed down that path as her parents (Thomas Cashmore & Annie Hillard) are not directly related to me. However, in saying that, the children of Richard Jordan and Eliza Cashmore are related to me.
The information I have relating to Eliza is that she was born 1858 in Tipton. Married my Great Grandfather Richard 12th January 1878 and died 9th September 1889, 8 Albert Place, Shettleston of Rheumatism, Heart Disease.
I have a little information on Eliza & Richard's children (the most is on Florence).
I am more than happy to share any information I have on the Jordan's with you although our only connection would be through Richard and Eliza's children.
Kindest regards
Liz
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There would be no Sidebottoms in Wishaw/Motherwell after about 1907 as they moved to Northern Ireland.
George Sidebottom and Mary Ann Cashmore were my great-grandparents. After they died their eldest son, George (b1885) moved himself and all his younger siblings to Northern Ireland. He remained there for the rest of his life. One brother later moved to Canada, and his sister Rachel (the only girl) later moved back to Scotland where she lived in St Andrews for the rest of her life. She was unmarried. George and the two youngest brothers lived in Londonderry.
I am also interested in any Sidebottom records. I know that George (senior) was the youngest of five brothers and their father was Isaac Sidebottom but I can't get any further back beyond Isaac. They were not a Scottish family - George snr moved to Motherwell from Manchester (via Barrow-in-Furness) as he worked in the iron & steel industry.
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Hello,
I was very interested in this post as my mother and grandmother were born and grew up in English buildings. I was wondering about the source of a lot of the information. I would be interested in reading/researching more. Lodger, you mentioned a 1922 Wishaw street directory: how can that be accessed? Thanks,
Alison
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Hi Alison, welcome to Rootschat.
As far as I know, I have the only copy of the 1922/1925 Directory for the burgh of Motherwell & Wishaw.
I'd be happy to do a "look-up" for you.
Lodger
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Hi Lodger,
Thanks for the quick reply. I am interested in Mulheron, Devaney (I think you already mentioned) and McGinnis living in English Street/English buildings.
Thanks again
Alison
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Hi Alison,
According to the 1922 part of the directory -
MULHERON A. 85 English Buildings.
MULHERON S. 77 English Street.
MULHERON J. 90 English Buildings.
MULLHERON Mrs. 85 English Street. (note the spelling)
MULHERON S. 90 English Buildings.
In the 1925 part of the book, which is by street, not alphabetically as the 1922 was,
77 English Buildings - STEVEN MULHERON, ironworker.
85 English Buildings - MARY MULHERRON, widow. (spelling).
90 English Buildings - JAMES MULTHERON, builder. (spelling).
1922 -
DEVANCY M. 77 English Buildings. (spelling).
That's all I could find I'm afraid.
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Thank you!
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old English buildings in craigneuk,
I moved to glencairn avenue in craigneuk when I was 5 years old. that would have been 1975, or something like that, I can remember the English buildings at that time were deserted and waiting to be pulled down.
It did indeed sit at the corner of shieldmuir st and English street also on the corner opposite the buildings was a right spit bucket pub called dawsons, full of character and a right hard mans pub.
there are a couple of surviving buildings left, though fully modernised, they are on, on the map you can see winning quadrant, that's all that's left.
the buildings were originally used as housing for the steel industry employees you had ravenscraig and the clyde alloy, these were to meet housing for the clyde alloy employees.
I personally and my friend neily went through every flat looking for anything before they were pulled down.
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Hi guys,
Hi, I’m new to this site but have been looking for some living relatives. I see you have been doing research on Agnes shannon and Joseph Jordan. Joseph being one of Richard and Elizabeth Jordan’s children.
Looking around ancestry it is confusing how many children they had . I have a birth certificate for Catherine shannon jordan (1934) but have found family trees relating to another child called Joseph . Do you have information on the children? Or any info regarding this strain of the tree?
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Looking around ancestry it is confusing how many children they had . I have a birth certificate for Catherine shannon jordan (1934) but have found family trees relating to another child called Joseph .
Don't believe anything you find on Ancestry or any similar site, unless it's an image of an original certificate. Be especially mistrustful of online family trees. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
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Hi guys,
Hi, I’m new to this site but have been looking for some living relatives. I see you have been doing research on Agnes shannon and Joseph Jordan. Joseph being one of Richard and Elizabeth Jordan’s children.
Looking around ancestry it is confusing how many children they had . I have a birth certificate for Catherine shannon jordan (1934) but have found family trees relating to another child called Joseph . Do you have information on the children? Or any info regarding this strain of the tree?
Duplicate post
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702487.msg6430177#msg6430177