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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: tesscawley on Thursday 21 July 11 17:59 BST (UK)
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RESEARCHING THE MADDEN & LATEGAN FAMILY
JAMES (BERNARD?) MADDEN BORN ABT 1891 MARRIED JOCELYN FRANCES LATEGAN B 1902. THEIR SON FREDERICK STUART MADDEN 1926 – 1984 MARRIED VALARIE THERASA MURPHY AND HAD 2 DAUGHTERS. IT MAY BE THAT THE ORIGINAL MADDEN FAMILY CAME FROM IRELAND. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFORMATION?
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1936 was not a good year for James.
Depot:KAB (Cape Town Archive)
Source:CSC
Volume:2/1/1/1302
Reference:419
Description:Illiquid Case,Restitution of conjugal rights.Joycelyn Madden ( born Lategan) versus James Bernard Madden
Starting and ending :1936
Depot: TAB (Archives of the former province of Transvaal)
Source:WLD
Reference:445/1936
Description:Criminal case.State versus James Bernard Madden
Starting and ending 1936
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This one might be relevant.
Depot:KAB
Source:CDC
Volume:162
Reference:32/1/4446/9
Description: Groepsgebiede/ Group Areas.Aansoek om Permit.Plumstead.JF Madden
Starting:1967
Groepsgebiede = Group Areas
Aansoek om permit = Application for permit
Plumstead is a suburb of Cape Town
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Thank you for your reply.
Would you be able to tell me about what seems to be a criminal record.
I am also trying to find out where James died, if he had OTHER children and where is father came from. I am completely stuck at tracing this line back. All help gratefully received.
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James Bernard Madden b. 1 Oct 1891, in Cape Town. He was married twice, all I know of the first marriage was a daughter ?Nancy. His second marriage was to Marjorie Eileen Thompson, don't know the date & cant find marriage certificate, and had one child Michael James Madden, was born 1933. I would love to find out more information
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Where can I get a copy of these documents, these may reveal a skeleton in the family cupboard. Bernard I think was my grandfather, Am interested that he was obviously married to Jocelyn in 1936, however my father was born in 1933, his mother was Marjorie Thompson.
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Hi Gail,
Welcome to Rootschat
I am sorry but Tesscawley's emails have stopped working, I had sent a message via another website but sadly she had not picked up on the message.
In the mean time I think it is worth you starting off a new topic with what you know from your side of the family and lets hope that Tess eventually picks up one of our messages :)
Regards
Sarah
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Thanks for the information, I managed to track someone down that knew her but unfortunately she died a few years ago.
Thanks
Gail
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Where can I get a copy of these documents, these may reveal a skeleton in the family cupboard. Bernard I think was my grandfather, Am interested that he was obviously married to Jocelyn in 1936, however my father was born in 1933, his mother was Marjorie Thompson.
The KAB documents are held at the Cape Town Archives. Unfortunately you will have to contact them directly and arrange to get copies or else appeal to someone who is going there to order them for you.
The TAB documents can be ordered through eggsa.org
If you look on eggsa.org under gravestones there is a photograph of the tombstone in East London for Michael James and his wife Susanna Elizabeth. This has Michael's year of birth as 1934 not 1933.
Hope this helps!
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Where can I get a copy of these documents, these may reveal a skeleton in the family cupboard. Bernard I think was my grandfather, Am interested that he was obviously married to Jocelyn in 1936, however my father was born in 1933, his mother was Marjorie Thompson.
For no other reason, but just for interest I see that Jocelyn did not have a very good record when it came to marriages!
DEPOT KAB
SOURCE CSC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 2/1/1/1580
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 292
PART 1
DESCRIPTION ILLIQUID CASES. RESTITUTION OF CONJUGAL RIGHTS. COLIN CAMPBELL
HARRISON VERSUS JOCELYN FRANCIS HARRISON, BORN LATEGAN, FORMERLY
MADDEN.
STARTING 19480000
ENDING 19480000
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Michael James must be a common first name for the Maddens, as my dad Michael James born 1933 is alive and well at 80 years old, now living in Queensland Australia. I have an extract of my gransfathers birth certificate. How do I go about getting a copy of the original?
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Michael James must be a common first name for the Maddens, as my dad Michael James born 1933 is alive and well at 80 years old, now living in Queensland Australia. I have an extract of my gransfathers birth certificate. How do I go about getting a copy of the original?
So sorry about that :(
I know that copies of many baptismal records have been scanned and are on line through familysearch, but I have no idea where you would get a copy of the original birth certificate. As far as I know you can only obtain an extract. Possibly someone with better knowledge of this could help.
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Have contacted Cape & Tvl archives and wawiting reply...got WW1 records of James Bernard Madden with signature and waiting to verify with Madden/Lategan marriage certificate. To untrained eye both signatures from same person!
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Do you know where and when they were married? If so it might be possible to find a copy of their marriage certificate on familysearch.
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The tombstone does not belong to my father Michael James Madden born 1933. My dad is still alive and well and living in Queensland Australia. I have however got a copy of James Bernards WW1 records and the signature these closely resembles that on the marriage certificate mentioned in the first post above. The signatures are very similar and I am getting a handwriting expert to confirm if they were both signed by the same person. If they are, this means my grandfather was still married to Jocelyn Lategan in 1933 when my father was born to him and my grandmother Marjorie Carey. !!
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It is always interesting discovering the hidden secrets in a family tree! I think it makes all the searching for information just so much more exciting :)
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Have just found an extract of a marriage certificate of James and Marjorie, They were married in 1937, 3 years after son Michael was born, and the 7 has been altered to a 2. He only divorced Jocelyn Lategan in 1936!
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Ah - it is always amazing to discover the tangled webs of a family tree!
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An update. Confirmed my grandfather was married to Joyce Lategan by comparing dates and handwriting on birth war and marriage certificates though my father was not aware of this or that he had a half brother Frederick My father was born in 1933 while James was still married to Jocelyn and my grandparents Marge and James were later married in 1937 although the 7 had been altered on the certificate to look like a 2! I have made contact with Fredericks daughter my half cousin and with the information we both had we could work it all out....my grandmother would be turning in her grave knowing that we have found out she had a child out of wedlock, she was very 'proper'
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I am sure that a great many ancestors would be doing flips in their graves when they realize what we managed to find out about them!
So pleased you have managed to sort it out.