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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: PabloC on Sunday 24 July 11 00:13 BST (UK)
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Evening All,
I was just wondering if anyone might be able to tell me whether there were ever any army barracks either in, or within the vicinity of Lew Trenchard, Devon.
I have an ancestor's birth certificate from 1817 that states that his father - a direct ancestor of mine, was a soldier, and which was registered in Rogate, Sussex.
However, the parents were married the year before (1816) in Lew Trenchard. The father himself was from Rogate, Sussex, and the mother was not of the parish either, thus leading me to believe he may have been stationed nearby.
Any assistance would be much appreciated!
Paul
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hi,,,have you got the fathers records,,,what was his name and when and where was he born ;)
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Hi,
No. This is where it's tricky and the reason I'm trying to determine whether there was a barracks/military presense there. Birth cert states he was a soldier, and that's all unfortunately.
Considering local (i.e. Devon) regiments, as well as regiments from his home county, I've the following possibilities:
11th (North Devonshire) Regiment of Foot 1782–1881
20th (East Devonshire) Regiment of Foot 1782–1881
25th (King's Own Borderers) Regiment of Foot 1805–1881
30th (Cambridgeshire) Regiment of Foot 1782-1881
32nd (Cornwall) Regiment of Foot 1782–1858
35th (Sussex) Regiment of Foot 1805–1832
46th (South Devonshire) Regiment of Foot 1782–1881
So, ultimately trying to see which of this might have been posted in the area at the time of the marriage and birth (1816-1817), so I can then look into available Muster Rolls etc.
All very much a long shot at the moment, but not much else to go on....
Paul
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Sorry....to answer your question though:
Thomas Glue, born c. 1786, Rogate, Sussex
Paul
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Hi Paul
Lew Trenchard is a very small parish some 5 miles north of Tavistock, at no time has there ever been a barracks there. The population in the early 1800s was less that 160.
Nick.
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HI PABLOC
put up the only census I can find for Thomas Glue born 1786 in1851 he`s down as a Pauper, ag labourer, born Rogate Sussex.
his wife Harriet is 25 years younger than him. also a pauper born Selbourne Hampshire the children seem to be of two marriages Glue and Draper!!
The only Military record I can find is Thomas Glue born 1820
at Upmander Sussex. on 1861 Census he is in the Royal navy
on the vessel" Mars "which was anchored overnight in Palermo Bay no ties to the above Thomas Glue that I can see.
In 1844 at Westbourne sussex I have Thomas Glue
marrying a Harriett Drapyer (their Spelling)
In jul/aug/sept 1844 obviously the first Thomas.
NO Contacts ref to any where in Devon most record Sussex and Hampshire sorry nothing positive to report.
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Hi Pabloc
Addition to my last comments Googled Army Camps in Devon
there were artillery Camps in and around Dartmoor at Okehampton etc even before the Prison was built to house
Prisoners of the Napoleonic wars
But still can`t tie anyone into Devon !!!!
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Thanks Dragongirl.
Yes, I have this information thanks. His first wife....Thomasine, my x 4 Great grandmother died in 1840, thus does not feature on the 1841 Census.
I wouldn't rule out the Artillery Camps that you mention though, as I'm only presuming he may have been in an infantry regiment...he may well have been an Artilleryman.
Whilst I have not yet seen the 1817 marriage record, I am told it has her (Thomasine Bray) down as a 'Sorjouner', so not of the Parish.
Perhaps the marriage record might give us an indication of regiment or similar....
Paul
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Hi Paul
Actually found the Parish record for Thomasina and Thomas
marriage but all it says ;-
thomas glue to thomasina bray
5th November 1816 at Lewtrenchard Devon
this is trancscribed from the Parish records and obviously
isn`t the original cert
Looking to see if it is possible to view the original,
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Thanks Dragongirl :)
Since my last post it's moved on a little, and we now know that Thomasine was born in Launceston, Cornwall. They had a child, Caroline Glew, in ealy 1816 outside of marriage it would seem...also registered in Launceston, then married later that year in Lewtrenchard.
With him seemingly being a soldier, we're thinging she may have returned to her parents when pregnant to the child, marrying, then returning to Sussex on his return where more children were registered.
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Just to confuse the issue further ;D have you considered the possibility that he was a militia man ? They seem to have been posted in all sorts of places, though I'm not sure if they were still operational after Waterloo
Maec
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Hi,
Yes...this is something I am now on to, having been informed of an 1828 document that excuses him from service within the Sussex Militia, aged 42, due to having seven children.
Perhaps he just referred to himself as a 'soldier' as a general term...?
Paul
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I have been trying to track my family through military barracks in Devonshire 1841 as well, apparently my GG Grandfather 11th North Devon Foot regiment according to military records was in Devonport although I can't find a census to confirm it, and my GG Grandmother was working as a "Mejs ? Woman" at Heavitree Artillary Barracks. Their names were Daniel Tansley and Ann Simmons. They had to have met in Devon in 1841 as by early 1842 they had a child and married in Winchester Hampshire in march 1842 as he volunteered for the St Helena Regiment. So I have them within 50 Miles of each other, but can't figure how they met.... Some of my research suggests that some of the 11th North Devonshire regiment were spread around a few barracks but I am having trouble finding them in census... and if anyone can tell me what a "Mejs? woman" was I would appreciate it... and I would appreciate any help. cheers.
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Could it be that she was a "mess woman", i e, worked in the camp mess?
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This is the census entry..
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In case you haven't seen this ...
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1224234
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"Me??". - ?? an archaic form of " ss". Occupation "Mess woman".
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I have a soldier from the 11th Devonshire who was living in Devonport at the time of the 1841 census but whose occupation is given as "shoemaker" not soldier, though at the time he was definitely a soldier. I know that it was normal in British army regiments for a soldier to have an additional skill which would be useful to the regiment and I am assuming the census-taker has made an incorrect assumption, or someone was being mischievous. It looks like he and his family were not in barracks but in private accommodation. He was Richard Bruce and it seems he (with or without his wife and children) travelled around recruiting for the regiment. J
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Is it possible that 11th Devonshire was a part time/territorial unit, and soldiers followed their civilian occupations between periods of military service?
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I confess I don't know anything about part-time/territorial units - but I do know that the 11th served in Canada and other overseas posts. I have details of many of the postings of the regiment but it is very hard to determine whether these postings just refer to detachments. Richard Bruce was recruiting for the regiment around the time of the census, mostly in Ireland. The census took place on the 6th June, 1841 and Richard, according to regimental records, was in Devonport on that date (between March and August). The previous year he is shown as being based at Devonport, but recruiting at Hillsborough, Northern Ireland. I am getting ready to check sources for this information, which has been gathered by a number of people over many years and subject to error. If I can locate the pay musters for the regiment for this time it will indicate whether or not he was in receipt of payment for his services - but it seems unlikely there would be a gap in his enlistment which spans 1831 to 1848. I have information about pay musters 1845 to 1848 and regimental movements 1839 onwards - though so many detachments were deployed it is hard to track. Thanks. J
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I can't offer much help with Jaznjjj's query but in the period concerned the regiment was the 11th Regiment of Foot, a regular Army unit, known as the "North Devonshire Regiment of Foot". It only became "The Devonshire Regiment" under the Childer's reforms of 1881.
Militia were not directly connected to the regular army at this time and largely existed only on paper.
Maec
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Thank you Maec, I am focused on the regiment between about 1831 to 1848 and I just think of them as "the 11th". I have an interest in the wives and children of soldiers when serving, particularly when posted overseas. I can recommend a book "Following the Drum" which explores this. It appears while serving in Devonport in 1841 the married soldiers were in rented accommodations in the town which may have been a normal practice when recruiting. When the regiment was on Norfolk Island it looks like the wives and children were in barracks with the soldiers - but this is something I need to research further. There was a ratio of women to soldiers allowed to travel with British army regiments which meant many wives possibly left behind. There was also a limit on the number of children permitted to accompany married soldiers - and it is thought this could be why this family's eldest daughter was left in the U.K. when the regiment sailed for Van Diemen's Land. J