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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: selby1977 on Wednesday 27 July 11 20:20 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am looking for Frances Elizabeth Druce who was born Bury St Edmunds 1821 daughter of Thomas Charles Druce and Elizabeth Crickmer. She is not with her parents in 1841 or 1851 then she married in Marylebone 1858 to John James Izard.
I am also looking for Elizabeth in 1851- she dies 16 October 1851- her husband remarried in 1851 and is on the census with his new wife Annie and children- obviously born while he was still married to Elizabeth!! Does anyone know the date of the 1851 census surely it was done before october 1851.
I am totally bamboozled - Can't find any of Elizabeth's and Thomas's children in these census - or am i looking in the wrong place- HELP
Barbara
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1851 census taken 30 Mar
Suz
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Thanks - makes it even more complicated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ???
Barbara
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Hi Barbara
Looks like Frances Elizabeth had brothers: Henry Thomas (1817) Charles Crickmer (1818) George (1819) and William (1827)
Seems that Charles, George & William all went to Australia. Not sure about Henry Thomas
Dazey
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Barbara...have you tried googling "Thomas Charles Druce"...you'll be even more bamboozled. Take a look at this one, for example!!
http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/portland1907/portland10.htm
Dazey
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The only possibility I can find for Frances Elizabeth in 1851 is this one in Dover
HO107; Piece: 1632; Folio: 538; Page: 11 - transcribed as Fanny Dence, visitor
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Hi Dazey
Catching up on the 'Druce case'- what an extraordinary story and to think I thought my mother-in-law was mad when she once said her family had links with Duke of Portland!!!
Still can't find much about TC. prior to 1851- located one son and i think you may be right about fanny Dence.
Well must keep searching Thanks again
Barbara
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Hi Barbara
I think I've found TCD in 1841 in Marylebone:
HO107; Piece 678; Book: 4; Enumeration District: 4; Folio: 6; Page: 7
Lodge Road, St John's (Wood?)
Thos. Druce, 45, Upholsterer, not born in county
Henry Paine, 15, polisher, Emily Bolton, 10, Ann Sayne, 35, female servant (all born in county)
Which son have you located? I think all his sons by Elizabeth went to Australia ... not sure exactly what info you have, but if you could say what in particular you're looking for now that would be good.
Dazey
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Hello Dazey
I located Charles Crickner Druce in 1851 and 1861 census but i have also found that he went to Australia in 1869.
and i think you are right that all sons went to australia- Frances is the line to my husbands family she married john James Izard in 1858. I think what i was looking for is what happened to all of the children of TC- going to australia explains a lot- and i am still wondering about the whereabouts of Elizabeth before she died in 1851 as i have a record that she didn't die until October 1851 but TC was living with Annie and children in 1851 census and the married october 1851- day after Elizabeth's death-could she have been in hospital or asylum at that time??? Seems to run in the Druce family!!
Thanks for all your help and pointing me to the Druce/Portland case it is amazing.
Barbara
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I can't see a death for an Elizabeth Druce in the Oct-Dec qtr of 1851 on FreeBMD. Have you actually got a copy of her death cert?
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I remember doing a bit of research( for fun) on Thomas Druce husband of Elizabeth Crickmer- and Thomas charles Druce husband of Anne May- I was not convinced that they were the same person! I seem to remember the Thomas Charles was born in Witney in 1794 and was an Upholsterer, whereas the other one was reputedly a soldier or sailer- born unk, with no trace of him on the census, and so year of birth unk. No ages on the Bury St Edmunds marriage of course.
Are you sure they are the same people?
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Almost certain that they are the same person- my husbands 2nd great grandmother is Frances Crickmer and family records etc. indicate that he deserted Elizabeth and his three children - he was in the army and then lived with Annie May had three illegitimate children before marrying her after the death of Elizabeth 1851. They then went on to have four more children.
My husbands mother who is 87 has given some anecdotal evidence
Who knows!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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For answers to all these questions and more, see my forthcoming book on the Druce-Portland case, 'The Dead Duke, his Secret Wife, and the Missing Corpse' - published by Head of Zeus in September 2014.
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Hi pdasgupta
You have resurrected an old topic posted by Barbara in 2011.
Your reply isn't really in the "spirit of Rootschat" as you haven't answered her questions and may be viewed as others as a blatant advert for your new book.
Providing Barbara with some actual information might be appreciated.
Dawn
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Hello,
The answers to these questions are very complicated and they can't be answered in a single post, I know as I have spent a year researching these topics! My reply was was as much for further info as an 'advertisement.' If you don't feel it's appropriate, please feel free to remove it.
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@ historyfreak, anent "The Dead Duke his Secret Wife & the Missing Corpse!" I've just finished this book of yours, congratulations on a great piece of work, anybody who enjoys digging in the public records will be smitten by the Druce/Portland scandal. Stranger than fiction definately sums it up.
Skoosh.