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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: carna on Friday 12 August 11 13:28 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I am hoping to find out more info about a relative Alexander McGregor, who was born around 1834 in Stornoway, Isle of Lewis, Scotland.
He married Grace Morton (born March 1836, Auchinleck, Ayrshire) in Victoria, Australia in May 1856.
Grace was probably the daughter of William Morton and Mary (nee McTurk)
They had 2 children Mary McTurk McGregor b. 1856, and William McGregor b. 1858.
I expect McGregor would be a poplular name in Scotland, but I don't know anything more.
Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Carna
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This might be him on the 1841 census:
It looks like a family with no parents.
Melbost, Soronoway, Ross & Croarty
Christina McGregor, 18
Ann, 16
Roderick, 14
Mary, 10
Alexander, 7
Margarer, 5
George, 3
All born county
Not found in 1851 so it could be him and he emigrated before then but don't see him on any immigration lists so far. Did he die in 1859?
gnu
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Another one but slightly younger:
1841
Sandwick hill, Stornoway
John McGregor, 30, joiner
Janet, 30
Isabella, 7
Alexander, 5
Mary, 3
Murdo, 7 months
Isabella Dingwall, 70
All b. county.
A possible baptism for him:
Stornoway - 23 Dec 1835 Alexander McGregor s/o John McGregor and Janet McDonald
Is there any other info on his marriage cert to distinguish him?
gnu
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Hi gnu,
Fast work! Thanks.
I also am unsure of how he came to Australia.
Grace died in 1858, but Alexander remarried in 1873 to Margaret Lonergan.
Apparently when his wife died, Alexander didn't cope well and gave the babies to relatives to raise.
I assume that is why I'm having trouble finding them all.
I have ordered the marriage certificate, but haven't received it yet. Hopefully it will clarify this.
Thanks again for your help,
Carna
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Hi Carna
Were there any children by his marriage to Margaret LONEGRAN?
Since it looks as if his first child by Grace was a dau named after Grace's mother - I would suspect the 2nd child by Grace, a son, was named after Alexander's father (William) - that's if he & Grace followed the traditional Scots naming pattern.....
Cheers
AMBLY
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The son could, of course, have been named after Grace's father . No way of telling - the Scottish naming convention wasn't rigidly followed.
There's this death but not sure:
Eca (?), Victoria in 1915
Alex McGregor, aged 82
Parents - Andrew Mcgregor and Margaret Kidd
No way of telling though
gnu
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I think that this is the first 1841 family in 1851 Note father is William:
Achonachie, Urray, Ross & Cromarty
William mcGregor, 65, farmer,employing 5 men, b. Gairloch
Hellen, 51
Mary, d 20
Alexr, s, 17
Margaret, d 15,
George, 13
Williamina, d,10
William, s 6
Cristina Cameron, visitor, 28, excise officer's wife, (a Christina Mcgregor married a John Cameron in Stornoway in 1843)
William Cameron, vistor, 5, ex off, son, b. Urray
John Cameron, 1 month , -do-, b. Urray
All above b. Lewis unless stated otherwise, I think the Cristina, aged 28, would be the Christina, aged 18 in 1841
gnu
Added - see my Reply #26
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Hi Gnu and Ambly,
Thanks for that. Yes I believe children named traditionally, but also think both fathers might be William.
Found an old message on google that is from a descendant of Alexander and Margaret Lonergan, but haven't been able to get the email address to try and follow up. Am still trying. . .
I think he then lived in NSW.
Possible mother's name for Alexander, Helen Gillanders? (Hard to read handwriting)
Thanks heaps again,
Carna
P.S. I can't type fast enough.
Thank you Gnu. That definitely sound like them.
I have been tracing my grandfathers tree and meeting rels through Rootschat. My grandmother aged 92, asked me to try her family hoping for similar results.
You'll make her day tomorrow when I have something to tell her.
Thank you
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If it is Helen Gillanders, it does point to the family of 1841 and 1851.
In 1861 what remains of the family are in Fodderty, R & C
Conon Cottage, Fodderty
William, 74, farmer of 36 acres employing ? man and boy, b. Gairloch
Helen, 60, b. Stornoway
William, 16, b. Milbost
Helen, 20, b. Galson (?) - presume is Williamina in 1851
Catherine Stewart, 21, domestic servant, b. ? Rossshire
Farquhar Macrae, 16, -do-
I don't see an Alexander/Alex*, b. Rosshire or Lewis or Stornoway on the 1861 at the moment so looks promising.
gnu
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This looks very much like her
Death 1864 Fodderty Helen McGregor, mother name - Stewart Other name (i.e. maiden name) Gillanders, aged 63.
Full cert will be on SP.
Your grandmother will be happy :)
gnu
(Got to go to the Recycling centre now but will see if I can find anymore later)
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Soooo excited ! !
Definitely looking like the right ones.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
Have a great day!
Carna
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:)
Helen died on 23 Nov 1864 at Conon Cotttage. Aged 63. Her parents were George Gillanders and Christina, M.S. Stewart. Both deceased by 1864. Son Roderick was the informant.
William McGregor died 9 Dec 1869 at Conon Cottage, Maryburgh. Aged 81. His parents were Roderick McGregor and ? maiden name McKenzie, both deceased. Son Roderick was the informant.
I've just found this which I hope you will like - sad but ~
http://gravestones.rosscromartyroots.co.uk/picture/number13455.asp
gnu
Added - the tombstone has William dying on 9 Jan 1870. I think that they were a month out for some reason
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There is an Ancestry tree for Helen ( Boswell, etc) but it gives less information than I've given. it does, however, have Alexander dying Hargraves, NSW in 1898.
It might be worth following up the death.
Also gives the location of William and Helen in 1841. They were at the farm of Galson (parish of Barvas) with 1 year old Helen and servants). I assume that they left Christina and the othersminding the Melbost farm.
gnu
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Thanks
I will definitely follow up on the death of Alexander and look at the ancestry tree for
Helen.
Carna
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Hi Carna
If you view the 1841 for Melbost farm at FreeCen - there are, as well as the McGREGOR offspring, 7 servants (farm & domestic) - this goes well with the 'Farming family of some means' picture drawn earlier
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
The reason I asked whether or not Alexander had issue with his 2nd wife…..
The NSW registration district for Hargraves, is MUDGEE.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
I can find no index entry Alexander McGREGOR (MacGREGOR) death in Mudgee 1897-1898.
It's worth noting, that on one tree on A88** y it says death is Aft 1898 in Hargraves - indicating, perhaps there was a family event in 1898, when Alexander was known to be alive & present?
Also worth noting -
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.britisles.ireland.tip.general/1952.1.2/mb.ashx
Margaret LONERGAN's parents were Thomas & Bridget (nee McGOLDRICK) who died respectively in 1895 and 1911 Hargraves. It also seems Margaret was probably quite a bit younger than Alexander (says her parents didn't marry themselves until 1847) and if so, she may well be still of child bearing age in 1898 - see below, birth index entries
There is the following - all McGREGOR, in MUDGEE, some at least (the earlier ones) appear promising, and certainley the 1911 death:
DEATHS
1911, Alexander J G McGREGOR - parents William & Ellen
1874 Thomas A McGREGOR - parents Alexander J & Margaret M
BIRTH
1873 Thomas A - parents Alexander James & Margaret Maria
1876 Ellen - parents Alexander & Margaret
1878 Mary - parents Alexander J & Mary M
1880 Bridget Margaret - parents Alexander & Margaret
1882 Lucy G - parents Alexander & Margaret M
1885 Annie A - parents Alexander & Margaret
1887 Grace - parents Alexander & Margaret
1891 Christina M - parents Alexander & Margaret
1894 Hanora - parents Alexander & Margaret
1898 Sylvia AM - parents Alexander & Margaret
Also in the MUDGEE indexes are births of issue of Thomas & Bridget LONERGAN - including a Honora - - can't see a Margaret though.
In the 1901 NSW Census - District 52, Hargraves, Mudgee (County: Wellington)
Louisa Creek, near Mudgee : L LONERGAN, Household 92 - 3 males, 7 females
Hargraves: Alex McGREGOR - Household 96 - 1 male, 5 females
Hargraves: B LONERGAN - Household 97 - 2 males, 2 females
Cheers
AMBLY
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Not sure if you had come across this - Hargarves Catholic Cemetery
http://austcemindex.com/cemetery-inscriptions.php?id=44
The LONERGANS are listed (photo of Thomas & Bridget's headstone)
but no McGREGORS in there or at the Hargraves General Cemetery at:
http://austcemindex.com/cemetery-inscriptions.php?id=43
or Louisa Creek Pioneer Cemetery:
http://austcemindex.com/cemetery-inscriptions.php?id=52
(it does say there are many unmarked burials & plots & overgrown graves)
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Ambly,
Thanks heaps for continuing the search.
I am unsure if Alexander and Margaret had children together.
I have seen a request for information about the McGregors and Mortons somewhere in cyberspace, but haven't found it again.
The author is a Robert Russell, a grt grandson of Margaret Lonergan.
I haven't been able to find the death notice for Alexander either.
I will keep searching though. It will bug me until I find it.
Thanks for all your help,
Carna
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Hi Carna
This is the piece you are looking for re: Margaret's descendant:
http://www.ballaratgenealogy.org.au/hw/help2010.htm
No I can't find Alexander's death notice in Trove etc, either - but I do think it's him in the 1901 Census (next to his aged mother in law), and his death 1911.
He'a also listed in Hargraves (as is Thomas LONERGAN, Margaret's father) in 1872 at:
http://www.family.joint.net.au/index.php?cid=301&mid=1
Greville's Post Office Directory 1872 LOUISA CREEK
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi again
I did quite a lot of extra research last night and typed it up in Notepad. Unfortunately, my AV update required a restart and asked me if I wanted to save - I said Yes but no sign of all the notes when it restarted :'( I did do a fair bit on other family members and found some more info on Ancestry trees in addition to these most relevant bits which I've retyped ~
William McGregor and Helen Gillanders married in Stornoway on 17 Feb 1820:
William MacGregor, Tacksman of Galson to Helen, eldest daughter of Mr George Gillanders, Tacksman of Shadin(?)
George Gillanders had at least one son, George b. 1805 (married Sophia McKid in Rosemarkie) and two other daughters, Anne and Margaret.
Anne Gillanders' marriage:
24 May 1832 By the Reverend Mr Cook of Ness - Mr John Mackenzie Rope manufacturer to Miss Anne Gillanders, daughter of Mr George Gillanders residing on Francis Street, Stornoway
By 1841, Geroge must have died and his wife, Christian, and daughter, Margaret, are at Francis Street:
Francis Street, Stornoway
Christian Gillanders, 60, Ind
Margaret, 20
Mary Mckinnon, 15, Female Servant
All born county
1851
Francis Street, Stornoway
Christian Gillanders, 70, Lodging house keeper, b. Lochbroom
Margaret,d, 30, b. Stornoway
Mary Macleod, 35, servant, b. Stornoway
1861
9 Francis Street, Stornoway
Christian Gillanders, 82, Annuitant, b. Lochbroom
Margaret,d, 38, b. Stornoway
Mary Macleod,44, servant, b. Beck
Christian died on 14 July 1862 at Stornoway. She was 86. her parents are given as Alexander Stewart, tacksman and Ann m.s. Urquhart. William MacKay, neighbour was the informant.
So it looks as if your Alexander was named for his maternal great grandfather.
Unfortunately the Lochbroom records don't begin until circa 1800 (I've done a lot of work on them!) so we will probably not be able to go much further with Christian's line. I do have various books on the Cromartie Estates (e.g. from the Cromartie Papers) but these are in Lochbroom parish at the moment. I'll check through them when I get there.
I'll send you some more certs.
gnu
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There are quite a few papers in the National Archives of Scotland online catalogue concerning a George Gillanders of Highfield*, and for the estates of the McKenzies of Seaforth (including correspondence about rents and feus and the manse at Barvas) There are also wills/inventories for George Gillanders of Highfield (1821-1848) on the Scotlands People site. I don't think that this is Helen's father but it could be an ancestor or other close relative.
* The Highfield Estate appears to have been in the parish of Urray (see previous posts)
Too much to list here. I think you'd best go to the online catalogue and do a search:
http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/
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Hi all,
Thanks Ambly, I am grateful for all your help.
I have looked at all the info and links you posted and agree that I think Alexander died in 1911.
That was the piece on Margaret's descendants that I had seen. I have sent an email. Waiting reply.
From NSW bdm 14152/1873, I add to the list of children to Alexander and Margaret, William Gillander McGregor. Williams death record 15175/1941 shows father Alec and mother Margaret.
Haven't found local cemetery records yet, but could have been under an abbreviated name, as in William's death records.
Keeping on looking,
Carna
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Thanks Gnu,
We have really appreciated the certificates you have sent us. Without them we couldn’t be looking further, e.g. the name Gillander is unusual, so it is fairly certain when it comes up they are related like the son of Alexander above.
In some of the NSW birth notices for Alexander and Margaret’s (Lonergan) children, he is listed as Alexander James G. I wonder if the G stands for George or Gillander?
On the death certificates, does the m.s. Stewart for the mother’s name and occupation mean that she was a maid servant for that family?
Thanks so much for looking up all the info and I am soooo sorry that your computer didn’t save it. Not just for me, but because of all the time you had put into it. I really appreciate it and nana loved it.
I print it off and leave it with her. She reads it over and over until I have more. This lot will keep her going for a while. She keeps telling me things I have forgotten, so between all of us we are painting a great picture.
There is so much on the online catalogue that it will take a while to go through it. Thanks again.
From your last post, I assume George and Christian Gillanders had 4 children, Helen b. abt 1801, George b. 1805, Anne b. abt 1812, & Margaret b. abt 1821. I tried to look up their births on sctbmd and haven’t found them. Is there somewhere else to look or not many records for these dates?
Do you think that is all the children?
Also Helen’s death notice lists her mother as Christina. Do all the census records show her as Christian?
Thans so much again,
Carna
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Hi Carna
To answer your questions ~
The name Gillander(s), I think, means servant of Andrew. There are lots of sites about it if you Google Gillanders origins.
I think that there is a good chance that the G in Alexander's name would be for Gillanders as many Scots used this to continue the female surname. This occurs in my own wider family with middle names of Burgess, Carson and Wilson, amongst others, being brought forward, even today!
On death and marriage certs the initials M.S.after the mother's name are short for Maiden Surname. Thus Christian was Christian Stewart before marriage. Also note that it's not uncommon in Scotland for married women to be referred to by their maiden surname. I've also found this practise in Wales as well. It might be a 'modern' continuation of the female form of the patronymic system - Mac and Nic or Gill and Ghill (Gaelic); mab/ap and mch/fch - merch/ ferch (Welsh).
I think that it is likely that George and Christian had at least 4 chilren - there could be more but these are the only ones that I've found so far. I've been looking for baptisms of children of both George and Christian and William and Helen but so far I've only found George:
Stornoway 1 July 1805 Baptized to Mr Geo Gillanders a son named George
and these to William McGregor and Helen Gillanders:
Barvas 1 Nov 1822 Christian
Barvas 7 August 1824 Ann
Barvas 5 Augst 1826 Roderick
Barvas 7 Dec 1828 Margt
Barvas 17 Feb 1840 Helen
I've use a broad date ranges and variations of surname with no parents or childrens names and selected a range of parishes. It could be that the entries are missing/damaged or simply weren't entered by the clerk. Baptisms in those days were not performed in the kirk very often but in people's homes or a small meeting place in the area where the kirk sessions were being held.
Re names - Christian, Christina and Christine and the diminutive, Chrissie/y are all used interchangeably - as is Jane/Jean, Janet/Jessie, Helen/Ellen, etc.
A couple of marriages:
6 June 1843 Stornoway Miss Christian Mcgregor, daughter of Mr William Mcgregor, tacksman of Galson and Mr John Cameron of the Excise, Parish of Barvas.
Christian/Christina appears with her parents in Achonachie in 1851
5 Sept 1850, Urray Ann McGregor of Achonachie and Capt George Murray of London
Note that the terms Mr, Mrs and Miss implied people of means/standing in the community in those days.
gnu
PS - by being extra careful and saving my notepad as I went along and then transferring it to this posting, the formating went wrong. I hope that I've made all the necessary formatting changes and you can read the posting properly.
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Thanks heaps Gnu,
I know nothing of the culture and traditions of that era, let alone the slight differences in our traditions today. Your info has helped explain alot.
As families get bigger, we lose touch with extended family because there are usually too many of them. I love catching up with extended family (numerous times each year we get together with 4 generations of 1 family and at Christmas we have 2-4 generations of my grandfather and his brother and sister's family.)
So I not only love finding my direct ancestors but also about their lives, what they did and the families they grew up in.
Thank you for giving me that extra info.
Carna
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I'm getting really fascinated by this family of yours :D
The George Gillanders (d. 1821) of Highfield's eldest son was an Alexander Gillanders, tacksman of Stornoway, dead by 1821. His son, John was the main beneficiary of the will of George and it looks as if John died in 1831. George's wife (Margaret McKenzie) was to live at Highfield until her death and then the estate was to be let to tenants.
I'm trying to find connections to your Gillanders of Lewis - e.g. why did the McGregors move from Lewis to Urray (where Highfield is located) in the 1840s - maybe the Clearances but not sure. Again, my detailed books on the Highland Clearances in that area are in the Highlands. But, still, why choose Urray ::)
Also, Alexander's sister Christian/Christina, who married John Cameron ther Excise officer of Barvas, seems to disappear after the 1851 census - did they emigrate? Not found so far in censuses, immigration lists or deaths.
All these interesting questions :)
gnu
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How about this:
http://195.153.34.9/catalogue/details.aspx?st=1&reference=GB234/GD427
Seaforth Estate papers, including, Lewis estate rentals, 1740-1791; mainland (Ross-shire) estates rentals, 1730-1787; Lewis estate tacks, sets and related papers, 1752-1786; mainland (Ross-shire) estates tacks, sets and related papers, 1766-1785; factor's annual accounts, 1760-1795; estate cash books, 1767-1775; livestock and agricultural accounts, 1765-1787; miscellaneous estate accounts, receipts and vouchers, 1760-1794; factor's personal and household accounts and vouchers, 1761-1791; kelp accounts and correspondence, 1765-1799; factorial and other commissions, 1756-1779; general factor's papers, 1727-1792. Factors' correspondence, including, letters to George Gillanders, factor, 1764-1796; factor's correspondence to Alexander Gillanders, Lewis, 1766-1794; letters to Seaforth, 1773-1793. Legal papers, including, contracts and agreements, 1768-1789; papers relating to local courts and litigation, 1754-1832. Military papers, including, papers relating to raising of 78th Highland Regiment of Foot (Seaforth Highlanders), 1778-1794; military correspondence to George Gillanders, Brahan Castle and Stornoway, 1777-1780. Gillanders of Highfield family and estate papers, Urray, Ross-shire, 1755-1835.
Lots of refs to these Gillanders of Highfield if you google.
PS - i assume that you've seen this listing from ? Russell in 1997:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENUKI/1997-03/0858114785
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A little more:
This Blog is by a descendant of William and Helen's son, Roderick. He married Anne Trotter in Killearnan in 1864
http://mymacgregorclan.blogspot.com/2007/08/eureka-moment-in-our-genealogy-research.html
gnu
PS - will need to check the 1851 census again!
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Note the 1851 Census, Achonachie, Urray, my Reply # 6
I've now checked the original image rather than a transcript and get this:
William McGregor, hd, mar, 65, Farmer employing 5 men, b. Ross-shire, Gairloch
Hellen, wife, mar, 51, b. Ross-shire, Lews Islands
Mary, d, u, b -do-
Alexr, s, u, b. -do-
Margaret, d, u, 15, b. -do-
George, s, u, b. -do-
William correct over to Helen, d, u, 1o, b. -do-
William, s, u, 6, b. -do-
Cristina Cameron, visitor, widow, 28, excise officer's widow, b. -do-
Agnes -do-, visitor, 7, b. Aberdeenshire, Kincardine
William -do-, visitor, 6, b. Ross-shire, Urray
John -do-, visitor, 1 month, b. -do-
plus 5 servants
gnu
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Christina and children in 1861:
8 Bridge Street, Inverness
Christina Cameron, 38, small ware merchant employing ?, b. Stornoway
Agnes, 17, b. Kincardine Oneil, Abdn
William, 15, b. Aboyne, Abdn
John A, 10, b. Urray, Ross-shire
Ellen Mcgregor, niece, 4, b. Ord (Muir of ord), Ross-shire
Hannah Macleod, 21, domestic servant, b. Ross-shire
gnu
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Hi Gnu,
Thanks for all that.
These repeated names start to get confusing. Families these days have such unusual names, they will be easy to place in the future.
I am still struggling to contact Robert Russell through these email address? ?
I hadn't seen those links. Fascinating!
If the information in Scottish Archive Network is classed as open, does that mean it can be viewed on the internet or only in the offices in Scotland?
I don't know Scotland at all. Are the places mentioned on the Isle of Lewis or the mainland, e.g. Fodderty, Gairloch, Urray, Achonachie etc
Sorry I keep asking so many questions but I am getting a great Scottish history lesson along the way. Thanks . . . .
Also, what are the Highland Clearances? and what did a Tackman do?
Grateful,
Carna
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Hi Carna
Stornoway and Barvas are on Lewis and the others are on the mainland. This map might help:
http://scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-caithness.htm
I think I sent you links to Streetmap of some of the places in a PM.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think you would have to go to Edinburth to read the papers or maybe ask a professional genealogist - maybe a Rootschatter might be going :-\
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's difficult to explain the Highland Clearances in a brief posting so here's wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ditto Tacksman -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacksman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some more on Alexander's sister, Christina and her offspring:
Marriage Urray 22 June 1865 Agnes Cameron and A(lexander) Mackintosh
I think Agnes must have died:
1881
Teanich House, Alness, R & C
Alexander Mackintosh, 41, East India merchant, b. Daviot, Inverness
Lilian, wife, 22, b. England
Ida, 12, b. Alness
Winifred, 10, b. Wales
Evelina, 10 months, b. England
Christina Cameron, visitor, 57, b. Barvas, Ross-shire
plus 5 servants
1891
3 Claerendon Terrace, Kemp Town, Brighton, Sussex
RG12/803/132/8-9
Alexander Mackintosh, 52, Official Receiver in Bankruptcy, b. Scotland, Inverness
Lilian, 32, b. Ashton under Lyne
Aeneas, 24, b. Scotland, Inverness-shire
Winifred E (?), 20, b. Wales, Dollgelley
Eveline, 10, b. Middlesex, Islington
Lilian V, 9, b. Scotland Ross-shire
Muriel, 3, b. Sussex, Brighton
Plus a governess and 4 other servants
Birth 16 Jan 1867, Alness Aneas Macintosh s/o Alexander macintosh and Agnes Cameron
Birth 10 Sept 1869, Alness Christina Ida Mackintosh d/o Alexander Mackintosh and Agnes Cameron
Birth Reg - Sept q, 1870, Dolgelly, Winifred N Mackintosh 11b 428A (also a Neta Winifred on p 428 - maybe a correction)
Birth Reg - June q, 1880, Kensington, Eveline Mackintosh 1a 174
Marriage Reg - June q, 1879, Wandsworth, Alexander Mackintosh and Lilan Rogers are on the same page 1d 923
Can't find a death for Agnes in E & W or Scotland. nearest is Wigan in 1878 byt she is listed as 28
gnu
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Hi Gnu,
Thanks again.
Poor Christian seems to have had a lot of tragedy in her life, losing her husband and daughter.
Thanks for those links. Will have to take more time to study them to fully understand.
I did look at the maps you sent on the links. Thought they were on the mainland.
I will have to read most of this a few times for it all to sink in.
Thanks,
Carna
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Just found this, so Agnes died after 1871
1871
21 Cedar Road, Clapham, London
RG10/695/8/10
Alexr MacKintosh, 35, no occ listed, b. Scotland
Agnes, 27, b. -do-
Aneas, 4, b. -do-
Ida, 2, b. -do-
Neta, 9 months, b. Wales
Christina Cameron, widow, 48, b. Scotland
plus 3 servants
They seem to be pretty wealthy!
I've got to go take some photos of Russian doll for a book cover now ;D
gnu
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Hi,
I was pleased to stumble across Carna's query and gnu's comprehensive research results.
I am sorry that I did not spot this thread sooner, as I think that I could have saved you a lot of time and trouble!
I too am a descendant of William MacGregor and Helen Gillanders, through their daughter Margaret.
I have been in touch with Robert Russell, in Sydney, who has compiled a very comprehensive family tree for the descendants of William MacGregor and Helen Gillanders. I'll send Carna a private message with Robert's current e-mail address.
FYI, the following is an extract of Alexander MacGregor's descendants family tree:
3 Alexander MacGregor b. Circa 1833/4 at Stornaway, Isle of Lewis, Scotland emigrated to Australia 1852. d. 1911 Hill End, Mudgee NSW. At Eureka Stockade
Ballarat in 1854 married Grace Morton in 16 May 1856 Ballarat, Victoria Grace MORTON b. 20 Mar 1836 Auchinleck, Ayreshire, Sct d. 1858 Victoria
4 Mary McTurk McGREGOR b. 1856 Magpie, Victoria d. 1927 Paterson, New South Wales m. 16 May 1877 Jemini, Near Smythesdale, Vic Francis BRINNAND b. 11 May 1855 Moonee Ponds, Victoria d. 28 Oct 1916 Tibooburra, New South Wales
Francis and Mary travelled the outback with their family and a Bullock team. They settled in Broken Hill, NSW. They lived a 'pioneering life'. Died... while riding his horse, he put his lighted pipe in his pocket and set himself on fire...he didn't survive! News article on file
5 Grace BRINNAND b. 1878 Scarsdale, Victoria d. ? m. 1905 New South Wales Francis N. THOMAS d. 1910 New South Wales m. 1915 New South Wales William Burnett BEAL Scarsdale is in the Ballarat area.
5 Florence May BRINNAND b. 1880 Wycheproof, Victoria d. 1881 Timor, Victoria
5 Francis William BRINNAND b. 16 Feb 1884 Nymagee, New South Wales d. 1952/53 New South Wales m. JAN? 1917 Broken Hill, New South Wales Alma KIESEWETTER b. 29 Jan 1896 Eudunda, South Australia d. JUN 1988 Manly Vale Cemetery, New South Wales Australia
5 Florence May BRINNAND b. 1886 Wilcannia, New South Wales. d. 1914 aged 27. Carlton, Victoria m. John Thomas CALLAGHAN 1913 Victoria
5 Myrtle H. BRINNAND b. 1892 Wilcannia, New South Wales d. .m. 1915 Broken Hill. New South Wales William HICKS. b. ABT 1892 - d. BEF 1992 - Marriage: 1915 NSW, Australia
5 Gladys BRINNAND b. 1895 Wilcannia, New South Wales d. . m. 1921 New South Wales Parkes G. LUCAS Died childless.
5 Maud M.E. BRINNAND m. 1906 Broken Hill, New South Wales John H. DARBY
4 William McGREGOR b. 1858 Magpie, Victoria
3 Alexander remarried Margaret Lonergan 24 January 1873 d. 24 Apr 1911 Hargreaves NSW Children:
NOTE: Children from first marriage were still in Victoria.
4 Thomas Alexander 1873 (Twin) (Died 1874)
4 William Glendyres [Gillanders] 1873 (Twin) d. 1941 Granville NSW – No Issue
4 Ellen 1876
4 Mary 1878 md 1902 to Christopher G. Keeley
4 Bridget Margaret b.1880 d. 1918 md 1903 James Cashman
4 Lucy Gillanders. b. 1882 md. 1916 Emil(y) Sutton
4 Grace b. 1887 d. 1928
4 Christina M 1891 md. 1911 Orlando Kennedy at Grafton
4 Reens (adopted ?? b. circa 1894) md 1912 Woollahra
to William Morgan
4 Hanora 1894 md. William H Edwards
4 Sylvia Alice Mary 1898 md. Richard Brennan
We are still trying to confirm William MacGregor's ancestry and should be grateful for any further information.
Family lore says he was the son of Rory Buidhe MacGregor and a MacKenzie widow from Gruinard. Rory Buidhe was one of James Roy MacGregor’s sons and grandson of Rob Roy MacGregor.
William apparently inherited South Galson Farm, Lewis, in about 1820 from one of the cousins of his MacKenzie half brother. We still have been unable to determine who this was.
We do, however, have a letter from Mary Frederika Macgregor, one of William’s grand-daughters, which refers to a Col Lewis MacKenzie being one of William's stepbrother. Lewis is reported to have been a Governor at the Cape; married a Dutch girl and died out there. Unfortunately, we have been unable to identify him.
William Macgregor undoubtedly had close connections with the Seaforth Mackenzies. A number of his letters survive.
William and Helen’s grave is in the Conon Old Cemetery. See http://gravestones.rosscromartyroots.co.uk/picture/number13455.asp
Regards
Mike
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Galson (?)
Galson is the anglicised version of Gabhsann, a small village on the north-west coast of Lewis (Leodhas).
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NB4359
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NB4459
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NB4358
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NB4458
'Deas' is Gaelic for 'south' and 'tuath' means 'north'. So, North Galson and South Galson.
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Eca (?), Victoria
Echuca, perhaps?
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Well, Forfarian - your guess is as good as mine - as Carna is Australian, I think, she might have access to records that would confirm :)
gnu
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Well, Forfarian - your guess is as good as mine - as Carna is Australian, I think, she might have access to records that would confirm :)
Very likely ;)
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Thanks to all for continuing the search.
The Gaelic can make things quite confusing. Thanks for the help with that.
Not sure about Eca, in Victoria, but will check it out. Echuca does make sense though!
Recently found out (through Robert) that Alexander's brother Lewis was also in 'Sidney" Australia 1853.
Another interesting link to follow.
Thanks Everyone,
Carna, aka Karen
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What a very interesting read. Pity it's so old. Hopefully putting a reply here will notify the posters who were researching this family.
I am a descendant of the Gillanders family. My 6th great grandfather was George Gillanders, brother of Helen Gillanders mentioned in the OP. George was the brother who married Sophia MacKid in Rosemarkie, Ross-shire.
Hoping this will find someone who wants to share info.
Regards,
Matt.
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Yes an interesting series of posts. I am a descendant of Alexander McGregor, and therefore Helen Gillanders, and would like to know more also.
It would be useful if there was a way to send a private message to other forum members, especially Carna, to track down Robert Russell mentioned previously.
Regards...
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It would be useful if there was a way to send a private message to other forum members.
There is. Click on the icon like a page with its corner folded back under the other person's name to send a personal message to them.
But if your query concerns someone who is no longer living, why not keep it where everyone has the opportunity to read and respond?
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It would be useful if there was a way to send a private message to other forum members.
There is. Click on the icon like a page with its corner folded back under the other person's name to send a personal message to them.
I must be missing something (new to this) but I don't see anything like the icon you are referring to under any names.
Regards...
edit: after posting this, the icon is now there! Honestly it wasn't there before... but I did look at messages in my profile. Maybe that activated the icons? Thanks for your help.
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edit: after posting this, the icon is now there! Honestly it wasn't there before... but I did look at messages in my profile. Maybe that activated the icons? Thanks for your help.
The icon appears after you have made 2 or 3 posts and it looks as if this happened in your case :)