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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: Chrissie246 on Saturday 13 August 11 02:15 BST (UK)
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Hello,
My Grandfather, Evan Jenkins, son of Evan Jenkins (1848-1916) and Grace (Gowman - 1846-1937) had several siblings, Alfred-1875, Grace-1878, Lillian-1880, Fred,-1884, William-1886, Ernest-1888, Albert-1890, Caroline- 1892, & Eva- 1892, twins, John Ivor- 1894, Victor Alexander- 1898.
Five (5) of these children were born in Africa, we believe at Cape Verde Is. they being Evan, Fred, William, Ernest & Albert, even though they all used to say they were born in Swansea. The 1901 Census says Cape Colony, but this seems to have been penciled in. Both Evans are missing from this Census, I believe Evan Jnr was at the Boer War as a Kitchener Scout.
The father Evan Snr. was a Manager for Cory & Sons, shipping people and one of his jobs out in Africa was to dive down under the ships to check them. I am told one of his dive suits is in the Museum.
What I would like to know is how were these overseas births registered if anyone knows please? Were they registered as overseas and/or Wales, or both?
Many thanks. Chrissie. :) :) :)
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births should be registered where they happen. If a British national was born overseas at that time, the birth may, or may not, be registered with the nearest consulate. These records then appear in the GRO Consular Birth Indices. Possibles for yours
Frederick George Jenkins Cape Verde Islands vol 8 pg 1887
Albert Edward Jenkins Cape Verde Islands vol 8 pg 1893
Birth certificates for these registrations can be ordered from the GRO.
1881 census shows Evan junior as born in Swansea
Nightingale Row, Clase, Swansea RG11/5353 folio 98 pg 57
Evan Jenkins head mar 31 blacksmith b. Loughor
Evan son 5 b. Swansea
Grace dau 4 b. Swansea
Elizabeth dau 1 b. Swansea
Grace wife 25 b. Bristol, Gloucestershrie
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Many thanks Osprey,
Well that puts a different light on it all doesn't it? I really will have to get some Birth Certificates. My dad, son of Evan Jnr, was Albert Edward also, must have been named after his Uncle. Unfortunately my Dad was orphaned by the time he was 5, so he knew very little family history.
Dad's cousin has "done the Jenkins family history", but I am finding so many discrepencies, I think I had better go back to the beginning and verify everything for myself.
Cheers from Oz. Chrissie. :) :) :)
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Always best to do your own research, more satisfying as well!
Think I can see where the 1882 birth date for Evan comes from. Looks like Alfred & Evan are the wrong way around on the 1891 census.
1891 11 Wood St, Barry RG12/4407 folio 11 pg 15
Evan Jenkins head mar 40 marine smith b. Loughor
Grace wife 34 b. Bristol
Alfred son 15 b. Swansea
Grace dau 13 b. Swansea
Elizabeth dau 11 b. Swansea
Evan son 9 b. Swansea
Ernest Vincent son 6 b. St Vincent Cape Verde Islands
Frederick George son 4 b. St Vincent
Albert Edward son 2 b. St Vincent
William Gowmon son 4 months b. Barry
James Homer boarder 32 smith's sinker b. Swansea
1901 19 Wyndham St, Barry RG13/4993 folio18 pg 27
Grace Jenkins head mar b. Bristol
Lily dau 20 b. Swansea
Ernest son 16 clerk railway b. Africa
Fred son 14 b. Africa coal merchant's asst
Albert son 12 b. Africa
Carry dau 8 b. Barry
Eva dau 8 b. Barry
Ivor son 6 b. Barry
Victor son 2 b. Barry
So Lily is Elizabeth, not Lilian.
There is a record of an Evan Jenkins trooper in the Imperial Yeomany who was in the Boer War, but it gives no date or place of birth, so may, or may not, be yours.
The Glamorgan Archives in Cardiff hold early records for Cory Brothers
http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/get_collection.php?inst_id=33&coll_id=2087&expand=
You could ask them to search, but it would cost something, unless someone from the board is visiting & could look for you.
http://www.glamro.gov.uk/where%20are%20we.html
marriage reg of parents
Evan Jenkins june qtr 1874 Swansea vol 11a pg 1049 with Grace Gowman on the same page
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Hello Osprey,
Once again many thanks for your info. :) :D :). I am finding it a bit strange that Evan was listed as being in existence for the 1881 census as 5 years old and then he turns into Alfred and pops up again in 1891 as a child born in abt. 1882.
I have been able to track an Alfred on later census. I don't have my grandfathers birth certificate, so I will get one from Wales. His marriage cert. which I have, says he was 24 in 1905, but between you and me, and the rest of the family, one really couldn't believe everything he said. Like for instance when he joined up here in Australia for WW1, he said he was not married, then a widower and then had to own up that he was married. He had left my grandmother Mary (Jones) and his 2 eldest children, Evan Phillip and Hilda Mary in Wales, so he could see the world.
So thanks for your help. I no doubt will have some more questions soon.
Cheers from Oz. Chrissie
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sorry, I seem to have added to the confusion. Evan in 1881 is the right one, I think. Then in the 1891 census, the names are the wrong way around, so Evan should be aged 15 & Alfred 9.
Think the 1881 is likely to be correct as they would be unlikely to put on the form a son not even born yet!
Possibly this birth reg
Evan Jenkins sept qtr 1876 Swansea vol 11a pg 708
::)
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Hi everyone, :)
Well I am more confused than ever now. I have a copy of Alfred's Birth Certificate, born 22/8/1875, 36 Waterloo St Swansea.
Meanwhile my cousin in Wales is trying to track down Evan's Birth Certificate for me, but it is being a little illusive........ :D
Chrissie 246
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that's very strange! I take it the birth cert has the correct parents? There's an Evan Jenkins registered march qtr 1882 Swansea vol 11a pg 673. You could ask the registrars, email
registrarsatswansea.gov.uk replacing at with @
So, why is Alfred on the 1881 as Evan? Human error?
???
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Hi Osprey, Many thanks. :)
It must be human error on the 1881 Census or something. The 1891 Census must be the correct one.
The parents are correct - Evan Jenkins and mother Grace (Gowman) on the Birth Cert. We will keep digging away until we find it.
Cheers. Chrissie 246 :D
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Hi Chrissie246,
It seems we are related! I'm descended from Alfred Jenkins, Evan's brother. I am currently researching the family history and I think we are both using the same family lore. I found a photo of Evan recently which shows him on a visit while on leave from the front. he is posing with my grandmother May, Alfred's daughter.
I hope you see this, as I joined RootsChat just to reply!
Best wishes,
Peter
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Hello Peter,
What a lovely surprise :) to wake up in Oz this morning and find your message. Thank you for going to the trouble to join this site.
My dad was Albert Edward, the youngest son of Evan Jenkins and Mary (Jones) He died about 5 1/2 years ago aged 90. Dad never really knew his father as Evan died when Dad was about 4 and his mother a year later.
I presume when you say the same lore, that you have a copy of all the research that Edythe Broadbelt did, if not then I could send it to you.
I still have not been able to find out where Evan was born. He always said on documents that he was born in Swansea, Edythe, says, Cape Verde Island, where some of the boys were born, Ernest Vincent, Frederick George and Albert Edward. Trouble is Evan was "very loose" with the truth at times.
The Census records are also confusing. 1881, the first son was listed as Evan. 1891, Alfred was listed as the eldest son (15) and Evan (9). I do have a copy of Alfred's birth certificate and yes he was the eldest. The 1881 census may have been incorrect as most people always thought, the first son would be named after the father.
I have sent an enquiry to St. Vincent, Cape Verde Island, with $20 American, but have never received a reply.
We have very few photos of Evan. One with his brother Fred, with both of them in their Army uniform taken whilst on leave during the war, so most probably about the same time as the one you have with May. And one from a newspaper, the Queenslander, of all the soldiers who left Brisbane. Also one of him at his blacksmith shop here in Australia.
I would like a copy of any photos you may have please. To do this, I will have to find out where you live, is it in Wales? If so, I am coming over there in June, with my youngest sister Glynis, to attend my daughter Bron's wedding in Scotland and then Glyn and I will do some tripping around to Wales etc.
Maybe that is enough info for our first contact. I would really like to stay in contact, to see if we can assist each other.
Cheers, Christine
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Hi Christine,
Great to hear from you so quickly! I shall have to get busy posting so that I can use the PM system.
Yes, I'm in Wales and yes, I'm using Edith's very useful research. My father was Terry Squires, son of May Jenkins. He died last summer and I recently managed to get hold of some photos he had been left by May. There are a couple of Evan, one with May and one with Gladys. There are some of other family members to such as her brothers Gwyn, Ivor and Verdon. I'm still trying to identify some of them.
I think you may be right about Evan being born in Cape Verde, I seem to recall Edith saying that 4 of the children were born there. I'm intrigued by his apparent denial of his family in Wales: there's a story there for sure!
It's quite frustrating that a lot of the family are recorded as being born in Swansea when most seem to have connection with Aberavon/Port Talbot, maybe it's just an administrative thing. It's certainly far more annoying to keep seeing Wales referred to as England, or even as a county!
As soon as I have access to PM I'll send you my email address (it may already be on my profile?)
I'm looking forward to learning about my new family in Oz (I don't feel so bad about the rugby now!)
Peter
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Hello Peter,
Many thanks for your prompt reply. I believe I have heard the name Squires mentioned by my cousin Dawn, Hilda's daughter, who lives in Brisbane and I keep in contact with her. We attended her 80th Birthday last September.
Regarding Edythe's research. Yes she did a great job, put a lot of work into it and it was kind of her to pass it on. But unless it is verified with documents, it may not always be correct. Also many of the stories she tells were, on occasions, in her imagination and embellished somewhat. It used to make Aunty Hilda quite cranky.
I am not sure what you mean by Evan's denial of his family. Yes he did come to Australia and left the family in Wales, visited them when he was on leave during the war and then after the war, joined up with them again in Wales, my dad was born and then they all came to Oz in early 1920.
I didn't realise that the birth records could be so hard to pin down. So many people say someone was born in Swansea, and yet it may have been at Port Talbot, Aberavon etc. where my dad was born, as you said. My Dad would not appreciate it when asked was he English!
In regards to Evan, so many say in Africa, but all his documentation, e.g.. Census as a child, marriage certificate, which I have, War records for WW1, death records etc. all say Swansea. Dawn said, her mother said Evan would talk about being born in Africa. Evan was a Kitchen Scout in the Boer War but I have not been able to get hold of his records to date.
Anyway he is my brick wall which I will get through one day.
In regards to the Rugby, I have a soft spot for Wales also. Bron, my daughter and her fiancé, Stuart Campbell have a great time going off to the Rugby dressed as Oz and Scotland! One of Evan's wife, Mary Jones, brothers was a great Welsh Rugby player - John Jones - his caps and colours used to be under glass at Cardiff Arms, don't know whether they are still there though, must ask Dawn.
Yes if we go onto the PM, we can exchange emails, making it much easier. Now what would you like to know about our branch? I will get Edythe's notes out and look at what she has about your family. I am in a U3A genealogy group here in Toowoomba, Queensland and we meet once a month, so I will be able to let them know about your contact in February.
I do have the occasional contact with Brian and Richard Jenkins in Wales, Christmas cards and Facebook with Richard occasionally.
Cheers for now. I will go and do the PM thing now, just read the Help section about it.
Christine