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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: selby1977 on Saturday 13 August 11 19:42 BST (UK)
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Hello
Can anyone help me with a look up of a burial- Possibly St James' Bury St Edmunds for the burial of Elizabeth Druce (Crickmer was her maiden name born 1800 Bungay). She was my 3x great grandmother.
I have conflicting information thought she died 1851 in London - but now from a family document
I have seen- she may have died 1836 in Bury St Edmunds and if someone could find the record to confirm this I would be really grateful.
I would also like to confirm the baptisms of Henry Thomas 1817, George 1819 , Frances 1821, William 1827 all children of Thomas Charles Druce and Elizabeth Crickmer who were married 1816 St James' Bury St Edmunds. Any information I'd be very grateful
Thanks
Andy
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Hi
Baptisms of children
Henry Thomas Druce bp. 23 Sept. 1817, Archdeaconry of Sudbury, Suffolk. D.O.B 21 Sept. 1817
George Druce bp. 1 Oct. 1819, Suffolk County Bts. Suffolk. D.O.B 1 Oct. 1819
Frances Elizabeth Druce bp. 8 June 1822 St. James, Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk. D.O.B 6 July 1821
Charles Crickmer Druce bp. 23 Dec. 1818 St. James, Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk.
William Druce bp. 16 June 1828 Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk. D.O.B 7 Oct. 1827
Some extracted PRs from IGI, others from An***ry.
claire
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Hello Claire
I have had a look at the Suffolk Burial Index - it only has 2 Elizabeth Druce's listed
buried 1696 & 1698 in Long Melford so not what you are looking for. I tried a few other potential spellings of the name Druce just in case :)
Keziah
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Hi Keziah
Thanks a lot -the information I found was given in an interview with a private detective 1n 1898 by her grand daughter who states she died when her own mother Frances was 15 years old at Bury St Edmonds - I wonder if her recollection maybe out a bit she also states her mother was born 1819 when infact it was 1821 - Elizabeth was born in Bungay - and i believe she also lived there- in other some other family information that I have it states she may have died 1851 but I can't find any records of this.
Andy
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Hi Andy
Have checked again for 'DRUCE' burials in Suffolk & can see nothing remotely possible for Elizabeth. Her marriage to Thomas in BSE's is recorded in the Suffolk Marriage Index.
You say the family moved to London - have you seen the death registration on FreeBMD:-
Elizabeth DRUCE registered September 1837 - Marylebone District Ref: 1/153. There are several other Elizabeth DRUCE deaths listed on the site between Sep1837 - Dec1855 but this one is the nearest date wise to one of your possibilities. Perhaps she died in London not BSE.
Have you found Thomas on the 1841/1851C - what is his marital status in 1851??
K
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Ignore the 1837, Marylebone one, she was a baby, the burial is on the London collection on Ancestry.
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Hello Andy,
Elizabeth Druce nee Crickmer was a 3 x great grandmother and I have some information about her.
I believe she was born in 1795 at Ditchingham in Norfolk which apparently isn't very far from Bungay. Family Search has a record of a baptism.
Her son William Crickmore Druce was my ancestor. He and brother George emigrated to NSW sometime before 1854. Charles Druce, their older brother emigrated to Victoria some years later.
1841 census shows Elizabeth was living at Great Yarmouth and William was apprenticed to a master mariner there.
Elizabeth died at Southwark in October 1851 as per her death certificate but I have no idea where she was buried.
Thomas Druce appears to have left Elizabeth sometime in the mid 1830s when he moved to London and began his business connections with the Baker Street Bazaar.
regards,
Kay
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Hello:
I am trying to find a death certificate for Elizabeth Crickmer in 1851 - I have a burial record at Norwood cemetary, but no death certificate recording Thomas Charles Druce as her husband. Has anybody seen one?
Thanks,
Piu
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There is an Elizabeth Druce listed as died in Oxfordshire in 1851.
Witney
Jun qtr
Vol 16
Page 102
Maybe this is her.
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Hi,
Thanks for the response!
I don't think the Witney one is her - the contemporary newspaper reports say she died in Southwark on 6th October 1851, and the burial register gives 10 October 1851 as date of burial. April would have been too early.
There were other Druces in Witney (where Thomas Charles Druce, her husband, was born).
Sunny Kayte says she has the death certificate for October - do you, Kayte??
Many thanks
Piu
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Death, Dec qtr 1851
Elizabeth DRUCE
St George, Southwark vol 4 p371.
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Wow! Thanks!
I have been looking for this for absolutely ages....
:)
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Hello Piu, just saw your message re Elizabeth Crickmer.
According to the information on the death certificate Elizabeth died on 6th October, 1851 at 8 East Street, West Square, Southwark.
The copy of the copy of the cert I have is very faint so I'm guessing it's West Square. It's definitely the right person as it states she was the wife of Thomas Charles Druce, gentleman!
The informant who was present at the death was Mary Walker or Waller? (name is very indistinct) of the same address. Cause of death was diarrhoea and congestion of the brain. Unfortunately there is no indication of where she was buried. I'm not familiar with cemeteries in London but Googled Norwood and saw it was probably the closest for her burial however I couldn't find her name listed there.
TC must have been aware of her death because he married Annie before the end of the month.
I believe Elizabeth may have been in London for some months as there's a possible entry for her on the 1851 census as a lodger with a Waller/ Walker family in East Street.
Do you have any information on the probable pedigree for our man of mystery TC himself????
I suspect it's something we will never know... :'(
Cheers, Kay
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The 1851 census is a great find. Full details are as follows.
1851 census
8 East Street, St Georges Southwark
Edward WALLER Head Mar 36 Carpenter Hardingford*
Mary do Wife Mar 38 Devonshire
Elizabeth do Daur 9 Enfield Middx
Mary J do Daur 4 St George's Southwark
Edward W do Son 3 do
Susan do Daur 1 do
Elizabeth DOUCE Visitor Mar 56 Shirt maker do
*Later censuses show Edward's birthplace as Hertingfordbury, i.e. Hertford.
The family's surname is definitely WALLER rather than WALKER
Their daughter Susan WALLER was baptised on 23 Dec 1849 at All Saints, Lower Marsh, daughter of Edward (carpenter) and Mary, of 8 East St, West Square.
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Hi, thanks for the clarification of the name Waller as the family with whom Elizabeth was staying. In the 1841 census there is a Mary Denton , 25, listed at the same address in Great Yarmouth so it's possible she may have become Mary Waller.
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Hello,
Thanks so much for these responses, sorry for the delay in reply - I didn't get any email alert to say there had been replies!
Ancestry.com has an entry for Elizabeth Druce's burial at Norwood cemetery, and I have her death certificate now - interesting that TC is described as a 'gentleman'!!
The 1851 census entry is very interesting and especially as she is described as a 'shirt maker' - a Daily Express article contemporary with the Druce case describes that Elizabeth was a wonderful seamstress and made beautiful shirts for a shirt-maker in Southwark (she was obviously pretty hard up after being deserted by TC, and presumably did this to make a bit of money)
One thing I just can't find is a D.O.B. for Charles Crickmer Druce - the parish register entry for baptism just gives date of baptism of December 1818, but no date of birth. I really want to find this as I have a hunch it might lead to something very interesting.....
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On the Suffolk Baptism Index it says Charles Crickmer Druce was born October 26th and baptised December 23rd, 1818. His father Thomas was a linen draper.
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Hello,
Thanks for this. Hmm, October is a bit later than I expected. George Hollamby Druce's case (to justify his claim to the Portland title) was that Charles Crickmer was the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Crickmer's sister Mary, so I was wondering if Charles' birth date might give a clue as to the truth of this - ie if he was born at a date too close to the birth of either his elder brother Henry (23 Sept 1817) or younger brother George (1 Oct 1819) to have been born to the same woman. But the dates show that they perfectly could conceivably have all three been born to Elizabeth, although it's very close! Will need to do some more resarch....
Best,
Piu
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Hello Piu,
I see Sue has listed the birth date for Charles Crickmer Druce.
I haven't seen that claim of George Hollamby's re Charles's legitimacy but I think it's baseless and there were five children born to Elizabeth and Thomas after their marriage.
Elizabeth had brothers Charles and William and her father was William so I think there was a continuation of family names.
Are you descended from Charles Crickmer? Over the years I've had contact with several of his descendants
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Hello,
I am researching the Druce case for a book, and have been in touch with some of the Crickmer descendants in Australia.
The case that Charles was illegitimate was the basis of GH Druce's claim to the Dukedom, although he had problems proving it and therefore entered into a written agreement with Charles Edgar (Charles Crickmer's son) that they would split the proceeds of any claim. I agree, the contention could well have been baseless.
I am continuing research in Nottingham University archives and in Bury St Edmunds, and will keep you posted if anything more concrete turns up.
Kind regards,
Piu
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I've finally found answers to all these questions and more and they're in my book on the Druce-Portland case, due out in September 2014 - 'The Dead Duke, his Secret Wife, and the Missing Corpse.' Published by Head of Zeus.