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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: reedyspur on Thursday 25 August 11 12:20 BST (UK)
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Hello im hoping someone could shed some light on my 2nd great grandfather Charles Boniface (married to Sarah cutlip Salter). I found info connecting him to Devonport, devon, UK via his daughter Alvena w r Boniface birth cert in 1903. Somewhere around 1903 the family traveled to Canada and they had another son called george Crawford who was born in Canada. In between this time and around 1907 i believe he passed away in Canada.
Sarah remarried a John Robbins after and i cant find any thing about charles Boniface after 1903.
If anyone could be of help i would be very grateful !
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On the Lake Manitoba arriving 23 Mar 1906 is
Charles Boniface 26, b. Middlesex destination Montreal with
Sarah 26, Mary 3, Alvena 8 mos, all born Devon.
Debbie
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I see from the 1911 England census that the family had already returned. It also indicates Sarah and John Robbins had been married for 2 years and they had a 1 year old daughter. The census also indicates that her son, George was born in Mile Stone, Canada (actually Milestone and it's located in Saskatchewan).
There is a birth in the Saskatchewan Vital Stats genealogy database (http://www.isc.ca/VitalStatistics/Genealogy/vsgs_srch.aspx) for George Crawford Boniface born 31 Mar 1907 in Regina (that refers to the registration district and not specifically the city) with Charles Boniface and Sarah Cutlip Salter listed as parents. The same database has deaths up to 1917 but there were no entries for anyone with the surname Boniface.
You may want to consider the possibility that Sarah didn't like living in Canada and returned to England with the children.
And welcome to RootsChat. In future, it is always best to include as much information as possible about a person when you are requesting help. If you have any additional information regarding Charles (parents' names, birthplace) it would help.
As well, in Canada there is no central registry for BMD events as it is a provincial jurisdiction so any bit of information regarding their time in Canada is also helpful.
Jacquie
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It looks like Charles applied for a land grant in Saskatchewan:
http://www.saskhomesteads.com/search.asp
After searching his name, if you click on the file number link it gives information regarding how to order the file. Applying for a land grant does not mean he was actually granted the land and it should be noted there usually is not much in the way of genealogical information included.
The Saskatchewan Genealogical Society has a Saskatchewan Residents Index database (http://saskgenealogy.com/databases/indexes.aspx) and a search of that has a C. Boniface listed as being a resident of Readlyn and of Verwood. The non-members database doesn't give dates but I was able to find out from a member that the Readlyn entry was for 1907 and the Verwood entry for 1910. Readlyn and Verwood are in the same area as the land in the homestead database entry and they are in the general vicinity of Milestone as well (about 130 km away).
If this is the same Charles it would seem to indicate that he was still alive when Sarah re-married (did she actually marry John Robbins? I haven't been able to find a marriage for them).
Jacquie
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Thank you vey much,thats given me some information to work thought tonight ! Thanks again
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Do you have any information about who the parents of Charles Boniface are and where he was born? I've had some hits to a few searches for possible sightings but can't confirm without further information.
Jacquie
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Hi Jacquie
No i dont have any details about parents and such i will be researching over the weekend and will let you know as soon as i find anything - thanks loads for your help so far ;D
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Thanks for all your help ! I have ordered a marriage certificate for sarah salter and charles Boniface and should receive it in the next couple of weeks..... This will give me a bit more information to trace him back further...... you have all been a great help i have taken all the info given by you all and added to my tree.
Thanks
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Be sure to post his father's name once you know it and we'll see if we can find anything new.
Jacquie
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On the Lake Manitoba arriving 23 Mar 1906 is
Charles Boniface 26, b. Middlesex destination Montreal with
Sarah 26, Mary 3, Alvena 8 mos, all born Devon.
Debbie
As it seems as thought they all come from Devon,I would imagine this is his birth.
Births Jun 1880
BONIFACE Charles Stoke D. 5b 346a
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Looking very much like him in 1881 with his grandparents in West Ham.
At 2 Swanscombe Street
James Edmonds 48 head gen labourer b Ireland
Maria Edmonds 45 wife b Devonport
Ellen Webber 24 mar dau b "
Maria Boniface 22 mar dau b "
Henrietta Edmonds 18 dau b "
James Edmonds 15 son b "
Margaret Edmonds 12 dau b Falmouth Cornwall
Charles Webber 28 son in law b Barnstaple Devon
Ellen Wilcocks 70 mother in law b Devonport
Ellen Webber 5 grandaughter b "
William Webber 1 grandson b "
William Boniface 5 grandson b "
Charles Boniface 1 grandson b "
William Camrain 20 unm boarder b Guernsey
RG11/1713 folio 86 page 31
IN 1891 he's still with his grandparents,and by 1901 he's in Portsmouth in the Royal Navy.
Carol
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A good possibility for his parents marriage.
Marriages Jun 1875
BONIFACE William Stoke D. 5b 558
EDMONDS Maria Elizabeth Stoke D. 5b 558
Carol
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Although he could have died, and the death missed in transcription...Not all marriages were dissolved back then...not unusual for couples to split and quickly tie up again...
On that note, here is a Charles Boniface who says he immigrated in 190(3?5?), with a family, living in B.C.
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=36953&highlight=30
You maybe can rule this one out, marriage says born Surrey parents Frederick & Mary... Plus just reread the entry from Jacquie that there was a sighting in 1910 Sask....
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Im still waiting on the marriage certificate for charles Boniface to come.....I will post the details as soon as they do. I hope to confirm a few things then.
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Yes this is the best, but I believe jacquie was right, she didn't want to marry as a bigamist, as looks as though she did marry him later in life
Marriages June quarter 1940 Sarah C Bonaface & John H Robbins / Bromley vol.2a p.2663
Have been looking at another Charles Boniface who was around the Saskatoon area...husband of Nina died in ww1 ( may have been a home child) so although there were few with the name Boniface, there were 2 Charles...
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Ok I finally received the marriage certificate of Charles and Sarah Cutlip Salter....
The marriage occurred on the 24th Jan 1903:
Sarah was 21 years old and her fathers name was Nathaniel Salter (deceased) - Jobbing Gardener Charles was 22 years old and his fathers name was William Boniface (deceased) - Naval Pensioner
Charles was a painters labourer and lived in, princess street, Devonport
Sarah was living in St Budeaux, Plymouth ( Watonga ? )
The witnesses were William Craig and (writing hard to transcribe) -e---llal. ???
I Checked the Sarah Salter - John H Robbins 1940 marriage in bromley posted by J.J and this makes sense as most of the family settled down in Kent....
Thanks again for all your assistance ;D.....It seems Charles and Sarah went there own ways very early in the marraige and Charles made his own life in Canada ;D
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It makes sense that his dad was called William as on the 1881 census where I found him with his grandparents,he has an older brother called William,probably the first born son and named after dad ;D
Carol
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Awe looks as though his brother passed away before the next census
Birth March Q. 1876 - William James _ Boniface / Stoke D. vol.5b p.334
Death March Q. 1884 - William James H /age 8 / Stoke D. vol.5b p.243
As mentioned the names may leave a clue...and now you know you can pick up that other marriage cert as well from the info Carol gave you above...
There is also a death March Q. 1939 for Maria E Boniface /age 80 / Plymouth vol. 5b p.536
However there is also a marriage March Q. 1885 Stoke Damerel for a Maria Elizabeth Boniface... which can be cross-checked on census..
There are so few Boniface in the district I thought I'd mention there is a birth for a female Boniface, Henrietta Aston in 1883...( noted she had a sister Henrietta)
Here's the rootsweb listing for Boniface births, includes other spellings
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~surnamru/steve/amb/GRO%20BON%20births%201837-1949.html
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Hi All
Charles Boniface was my greatx3 uncle. This has been a fascinating read although I need to read it again to take in all the info on here!! His mother Maria Edmonds was my Greatgranx3 and she had 8 children in total. Charles was her second son, she only had two sons the eldest died at a very young age in a work house in plymouth Devon. Charles's father, William boniface b.1849 Dublin was Irish and he was a seaman who apparently died at sea in the late 1890'S, I was sent a family tree listing all the Boniface family from Ireland.. Maria had already re-married to a Charles Ashton (1885) so was she a bigamist??? She had a daughter Henrietta before this marriage but she gave the child the Boniface surname but her middle name was Ashton. Probably as she was still married to William she felt she had to give her the Boniface name?? Three daughters followed all named Ashton, she was married to him by that point. Maria then a few years later had another two girls with a much younger man named Gifford. The strange thing about all of this is all the children except the last two took the name Boniface, maybe they unliked the name Ashton or disliked their father.. They used it when they all married and its only been recently discovered.
Charles has been a mystery to our family. We know he was a seaman also, records show he served from an early age until 1900's ish, i think he served for about 4 years only. I have a picture of Charles with his mum in uniform but I'm not sure it was when he first served in the Navy. Someone did look at the picture and they believed it was taken around 1910.. I dont have any info to hand at the moment but will try and find it as someone may reconise the uniform. If it was taken at that time he must have come home at some point.I did find the passenger records of them all leaving for Canada, I believe they landed on Charles birthday.... One of the daughters listed was named Mary but I believe the correct name should have been Eveline Elizabeth Boniface, maybe that was her nickname. I also found them returning with out Charles and Eveline but Sarah had her new little boy George crawford.. Maybe there's some record of Eveline's death in Canada or maybe she remained with her father?
Any help would be very much appreiciated, Charles has been a difficult relative to find..
Thanks
Kindest Regards
Lisa Dart
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Welcome to rootschat! ;D
Yes by definition, she was a bigamist as unless you find a divorce, she had 2 husbands at once...
Eveline Elizabeth was the youngest one, ( If you've proven the parents, as she's Alvina on passenger list) so I believe Mary is the older child.
( Don't see a registered birth in Devon )
The image from passenger list, March 25th 1906, ( from info found earlier by Debbie)
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e146/e003649565.jpg
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Perhaps the ages were reversed on the passenger list for the two daughters. Alvena's birth was registered in 1903 so there's no way she was 8 months old in Mar 1906 but Eveline's birth was registered in the 3rd quarter of 1905 which would make her about that age so it does seem possible she was Mary.
Jacquie
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I know Eveline Elizabeth Boniface was born in Totnes Devon 04/07/1905, to both Charles and Sarah as I have the birth cert.. She was the youngest but thought that maybe the ages were put in the wrong boxes in the passenger list. ? Charles and Sarah never had a child registered as Mary, maybe it's possible they gave Eveline this name? Thoughts please.
many thanks
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I thought that was Alvina in the 1905 births as well until I checked and she is on the 1911 with another family, isn't she...? Hmmmm...Unless she got back after all and is living with aunts/uncles?
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I thought that was Alvina in the 1905 births as well until I checked and she is on the 1911 with another family, isn't she...? Hmmmm...Unless she got back after all and is living with aunts/uncles?
In 1911 Alvina Winifred Ruby Boniface is with her mother and step-father on the 1911 England census. The only unaccounted child is this Eveline Elizabeth Boniface who seems to have been called Mary on the passenger list. As I said in my previous post, it looks like the ages for the daughters were reversed on the passenger list.
Jacquie
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Hi Jacquie
I'm sure this must be the case regarding the ages.. I have just searched again hoping to find Eveline somewhere but I can only think that she must have died before her mother returned home. I've just found a marriage entry for Sarah C Robbins in 1942, looks like she married a John Cain only a few months after her late husband John H robbins Died. Her death is then registered in 1945 Bromley Kent.
I remember reading a previous thread mentioning Sarah finally marrying John Robbins, I wonder why she left it so late. Did she get news of Charles dying maybe?
lisa
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Sorry, Beg pardon I got mixed up ::) between the two names when looking at the Freebmd... Guess they may have as well...thus the Mary, but you'd think they'd have used her middle name? As you say, the ages were probably reversed for the children. I 'll leave you with the experts, as I can't remember days later what I read on the first page :D J.J.
I remember reading a previous thread mentioning Sarah finally marrying John Robbins
Oh, say! ;D I 'm not the only one who can't remember from page to page, as that was on this thread, page 2
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I'm finding very difficult to remember everything I've read on here J J, hee hee. I'm currently suffering from baby brain, I have a little 4 month old!!
I hope you can help with anything, Its so much easier when you have more people researching... I'm hoping Phil(reedyspur) joins in with this thread again soon.
Lisa
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I have recently been told Charles may have changed his name to Charles Harrison, more confusion! I've found a picture of him with his mother, on the back it's dated aug 1915. I'm not sure where it was taken but know his mother lived in Devon, maybe he came home to visit. I need help with his uniform he's wearing, maybe he served in the army then?
Lisa
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I'm unable to upload the pic :(
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I've found a picture of him with his mother, on the back it's dated aug 1915. I'm not sure where it was taken but know his mother lived in Devon, maybe he came home to visit. I need help with his uniform he's wearing, maybe he served in the army then?
It looks like you were wrong about being unable to upload the picture. ;)
I would suggest posting the picture in the military section of RootsChat. Someone there may be able to help with identifying the uniform.
Jacquie
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Yeah I did it! How I do not no! Thanks Jacquie. x
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I'm trying to post the pic in the military section but it wont let me as I've already attached it here. I'm trying to delete it but not sure how? Any ideas Jacquie?
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You'll have to give it a new name................then you can post it.
Even changing one small thing will work
Carol
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Thanks Carol, I think I've managed to do it now. x
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Hi
Did anyone find any marriages in Canada for a Charles Boniface? I've just come across a picture of a Charles boniface on a canadian archive site, it mentions his wife Nina.
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Yes, I told you about him earlier, he is thought to be a home child and died in WW1...as I had found the ww1 signup and subsequent death...so then found his wife and the photos and his death in ww1, then death & burial of Nina...It mentioned somewhere he was thought to be a homechild, so found more...
Born 1892 mother Alice..You said Charle's mother was Maria?
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc001/250641a.gif
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/virtualmem/Detail/263813
The photo http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/virtualmem/photoview/263813/75639
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/home-children/001015-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=68539
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=106337
There have now basically found the information on him once again...to prove he's not yours, I didn't bother posting more back then as I thought saying don't chase the other I already did would be enough...
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Oh I see. I have seen the record for Charles Boniface 1892 and his mother Alice is mentioned as his next of kin. The photo I found stated that Charles was married to a Nina and thought maybe she would have been entered on the record as his next of kin, unless it was done before he married.. Sorry I will look back at your posts again. Thanks J.J
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actually I think it was her burial which I found first that made me curious, and when I saw it was a Charles followed through... think I found this captioned photo next from their wedding...( her real name was Jemima )
http://scaa.usask.ca/gallery/war/training.html There is a larger photo here if you want to compare?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0fn4/ When I saw your man in uniform I did look back at it and thought your Charles was too old to be the same person, lying about his age but you can look closely...
ah, yes, and a memorial called him Charles Frederick which matched a 1892 portsea birth, thus ruling him out as your man fibbing...
so now that we have mentioned him I'll leave a poppy to honour him as a ww2 fallen and possible Home Child
(http://www.members.shaw.ca/remember/Images/poppy.jpg)
( Note for those searching, the Charles Boniface in the last few replies is not the same man for whom the thread/query is searching)
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I'm just searching his name in every site I can. I didn't realise he was the same one you had found. Love all the info J.J, fascinating to read through even though it's not Charles b.1880. You certainly know your stuff. Thanks again.
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I suppose I know how to "look through" stuff... MY stuff is what I probably DON'T know ;D
...also may have been told on the odd occasion to GET stuffed... :P ;D ( Turkey reference left-over from Thanksgiving)...J.J.
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My mother and I lived with Sarah Cudlip Robins for a few years until her death in 1945. She lived at 5 Bruce Grove, Orpington