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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: Crisscreek on Monday 29 August 11 23:33 BST (UK)
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Hi to the board-my first post but I'm stuck.
Researching husband's Johnston line-and the subsidiary Harkness line. I have confirmed back to Thomas Johnston m Ann Harkness (b: 1749-d: 1833 Goldieslee, Graitney, Dumfriesshire).
There's a lot of info on the web which seems to say that this Ann is the daughter of George Harkness/Anne Currie of Tower of Sark. I was convinced and pretty happy with this as it was nice and neat and tidy, until I found this:
according to the memorial inscription in the Tower of Sark, "George's daughter Anne died 1807 and is buried with George and Anne in Tower of Sark."
Grenta old Church inscriptions have this:
"In memory of Mary Rickerby spouse of George Johnston Springfield who died 26th Oct 1798 aged 22 years. Also Ann Harkness his mother who died at Goldieslee 20th Oct 1833 aged 84 years. And Thomas Johnston his father who died there 1st Nov 1835 aged 88 years. Also the above George Johnston who died the 17th of Dec aged 83 years."
So I'm sure that my Ann Harkness (M Thomas Johnston) and the Anne Harkness daughter of George and Anne Currie are in fact two different people.
Phew-that's background!
From the OPR I have a birth for Ann Harkness 27/08/1749, In Kirkmichael, daughter of Thomas Harkness and Janet Kirkpatrick.
From there, I'm stumped....
Can anyone do memorial inscription lookup for me-Primarily for Thomas Harkness, father of Ann-and I'm presuming Kirkmichael? Possibly Graitney or area?
Actually any Harkness inscription info at this point might just be helpful!
Bright ideas anyone? Helpful advice??? Thanks Barb
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Not sure if this it what you are looking for?
It is a Gretna (Graitney) MI and fits your HARKNESS/JOHNSTON/Goldieslee criteria.
Don't see anything in your query about this tea dealer John PICKERING !
Can you make that fit your research data.
MI reads:
Mary PICKERING, spouse to George JOHNSTON in Springfield, who died 26th October 1798 age 22 years
And Ann HARKNESS, his mother, who died at Goldieslee 20th October 1833 age 84
And Thomas JOHNSTON, his father, who died there 1st November 1835 age 88
And George JOHNSTON, who died 17th December 1854 age 83
And Margaret PICKERING, daughter of late John PICKERING, tea dealer in Langholm, who died 20th October 1888 age 77
Cheers,
Sy
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Let me know if want more stuff on HARKNESS families, I have an interest in Covenanter graves and the Harknesses of Locherben and Mitchellslacks . They aren't my line but I did some research for a Harkness some time ago and have retained the data.
I'll probably need an email address that accepts attachments, but don't post one here, use the personal message facility.
Sy
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Thanks Sy!
Yes, she's the one. That's the inscription that pointed me away from the "other" Anne Harkness who keeps cropping up on searches.
Only my transcription read Rickerby...but I'll go with Pickering!
From there, assuming Ann was born 1749, an OPR search has taken me to Ann Harkness Bapt 27/08/1749 Kirkmichael (Dumfries) which I understand is in the area of Locherben?
Daughter to Thomas Harkness and Janet Kirkpatrick ( and the handwriting is so bad I can't figure out "of where" )
OPR search also give me two siblings to Ann, namely Anna (BD 1743 Kirkmichael - I assumed died and name reused) and Thomas bd 1747, also Kirkmichael.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I had a nice tidy tree at one point, tied neatly into the famous Thomas "The Martyr" and Jame of the Long Gun Harkness....until I found that darned conflicting memorial inscription!
Thanks again. Barb
Off now to see if there is a PM function so I can send you my email...otherwise I'll just post it in a minute!
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Hi Barb
MI at Gretna definitely reads Rickerby not Pickering - I think the published version has a misprint.
I have a photo of the gravestone - if you'd like a copy send me a PM with your email address
cheers
robbiesmum
http://longtown19.website.orange.co.uk
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Thanks to the both of you! I think I have a much better handle on these particular Harknesses now. I just need to figure out the various Thomases but it appears to be coming together.
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Hi Barb
Looking at the published MI from the Tower of Sark, I think the Anne who died in 1807 is not the daughter of George Harkness and Anne Currie.
It mentions George Harkness of Cowsknowe d 1765 aged 63
Anne Currie his wife d 1787 aged 85
James Harkness son to the above d at Goldieslee 1811 aged 76
Anne his daughter d 1807 aged 45
Jane Irving his wife d 1813 aged 80
George Little d 1848 aged 50.
If my maths is correct, this Anne is too young to be a daughter of George and Anne, and from the wording is probably daughter of James Harkness and Jane Irving?
I don't know if George and Anne Harkness had a daughter born 1749, but it would just be possible.
cheers
robbiesmum
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Thanks Robbies mom....yes, this is the inscription that sent me off querying the "Anne Harkness" in my tree.
I use ancestry trees occasionally, but always double check what i can...and most online trees for Harkness show Anne 1749-1833 married to Thomas Johnston. This is true, but those trees usually say Anne was the daughter of George Harkness and Anne Currie-which the Tower of Sark inscription pretty much negates.
I have the inscription from Gretna old church-which shows Anne Harkness, with her husband Thomas Johnston...1749-1833.
OPR has 1749 Anne Harkness daughter of Thomas Harkness and Janet Kirkpatrick of Kirkmichael.
And that's where I was stuck! I'm fairly sure (as sure as one can be 300 years ago), that my Anne is daughter of Thomas, son of William/William/Adam Harkness....and that Janet Kirkpatrick was a first wife, who died 1749-1752 ish, and Thomas remarried....
It's either possible, or wild speculation! Haven't decided yet.
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Hi Barb - from the Tower of Sark inscription, it mentions Anne Harkness who died in 1807 aged 45.
This Anne Harkness was therefore born about 1762, if my maths is correct!
From the same MI Anne Currie, wife of George Harkness, was born about 1702, and would have been 60 when this Anne Harkness was born.
Therefore I think the MI refers to an Anne Harkness, daughter of James Harkness and Jane Irving, and probably granddaughter of George Harkness and Anne Currie. The wording isn't clear but that's how I would have read it.
So the Tower of Sark MI doesn't actually negate the theory that Anne Harkness, wife of Thomas Johnston, was daughter of George and Anne. (If they definitely had a daughter Anne!)- the Anne on the gravestone at Tower of Sark was probably a granddaughter of theirs, not a daughter. There is a link with Goldieslee in the two families, as well.
Your theory sounds more likely, but possibly you shouldn't rule out any possiblities yet! There are a lot of Harknesses about.
cheers
robbiesmum
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Oh shoot! now that I've reread for comphrension I get what you're saying!
Yes, it does look as though Ann (d 1807) is James' daughter, not George.
So my Ann could be George's daughter.....
Gack...but now I also have Ann Harkness, daughter of Thomas, born 1749 according to the OPR.
Still muddy, just different water!
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Hi
Is the 'Kirkmichael' you are researching the one in Ayrshire? (The other one is in Perthshire).
I live near there, and maybe able to provide photo's etc. Although I do not know much of the history of the village, I am willing to 'have a go'!
Kirkmichael is a two hour drive from Gretna, and a village with a population of about 700.
Regards
C_W
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Thanks C_W,
I think it's the parish of Kirkmichael, just outside Lochmaben, Dumfries.
None of the monumental inscriptions matched my particular genealogy, so I think I'm okay for photos-but thank you so much for the generous offer!
I've pretty much decided with this genealogy to simply write up both options-including my references, as future genealogists may be able to sort it out.
1. Anne Harkness, born 1749 to Thomas Harkness and Janet Kirkpatrick (from OPR/Kirkmichael-still in the correct area).
2. or Anne Harkness, born 1749 to George Harkness and Anne Currie (from many other genealogists/ and she's in the correct area of Dumfriesshire, but Anne would have been 46 years old!).
Bit of a cop out but there it is!
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Good Luck with your research.
Have you tried the Scotlands People website?
They are 'pay as you go' where you can search free then pay to see transcripts etc. Their parish records go quite a way back. Although my family are English, I have used them for my husbands side, and they are very good. I think their price starts around £6 for units.
Regards
C_W
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Love Scotland's People! Just ask my Mastercard.....
Problem is though, now I'm back in time to where potentially there weren't records kept in some parishes.
So, the question then become is the person I've found in the OPR the "right" person or just the same name in a parish that happened to have records?
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If it was all too easy what would we do? !!
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Hi Barb/ Crisscreek/ anyone linked,
You are researching the Johnston descendants also? I would be interested in making contact; some of the Johnston descendants moved to Birmingham, England- there is still a house here that one of them lived in named Goldieslee to this very day out if of interest?
Regards,
Ian
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Hi Ian, Barb and others,
Was browsing the Internet for ancestry information....as one does. Found this discussion on Thomas Johnston and Anne Harkness who are in my family tree. Was happy to find additional information on Anne which I did not have. I am a New Zealand descendant of Dr Alexander Johnston who is grandson of Thomas and Anne. Alexander was born in Birmingham and led an adventurous life before becoming the senior medical officer in Colonial New Zealand in the 1850's. I have quite a bit of history on this gentleman and his descendants in NZ and in the UK. I am interested in any further information about the Johnstons from Birmingham and the information that has been compiled on Anne Harkness.
I read mention of the Johnston's home being called "Goldieslee", interestingly Dr Johnston designed and built a heritage listed house known as Goldies Brae (located at 4 Goldies Brae), which is more commonly known as the Banana house. Check it out on the web.
I see that this thread is a little old, also this is my first post on roots chat so I am hoping the process works and my message gets read.
regards
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Alexander is my great great great granduncle. Please get in touch!
Regards,
Ian
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Thanks for the Harkness info in this thread.