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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: marythorburn on Saturday 03 September 11 13:02 BST (UK)
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looking for details of john william campbell married sarah stewart - had child henry campbell died edinburgh 1975
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where would i be able to find details on parentage
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On a birth certificate ?
Some extra details would help us to help you :)
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sorry, but i cant find birth certificate
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All i have is Henry campbell born abt 1901, died 1975 edinburgh, father john william campbell and mother sarah stewart. henry campbell married helen lees
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Sorry, I don't have access to Scottish records, but I'm sure that other Roots Chatters may be able to help :)
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Have you eliminated all possible corresponding births on ScotlandsPeople (or do you have reason to believe he was born somewhere other than Scotland?).
Do you have details of the marriage to Helen Lees - when and where?
See www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for Scottish records (including BMD and 1841-1911 censuses) if you are not already familiar with it.
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Henry Campbell married 31 dec 1925 west lothian scotland.
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Hi
had child henry campbell died edinburgh 1975
Do you mean Henry died in 1975 or John?
If it was Henry - how old was he when he died? If he was born before the 1911 census you can check the 1911 on Scotlands People to get details of his parents
Have you checked Scotlands People for the marriage of John & Sarah which will give his age at that time and also his parents names and mothers maiden name
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
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Related thread here:
Threads merged and edited.
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Closest census I can see is
1901
John Campbell 40 born: Ireland occ Varnisher
Sarah Campbell 35 born: Greenock, Renfrewshire
Christina Campbell 12
Mary Campbell 10
Sarah Campbell 8
Henry Campbell 6 born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Janet Campbell 3
Charles Montgomery 72
Christina Montgomery 30
Alexander Montgomery 28
Address: 419 1/2 Argyle St Glasgow
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Hi Mary,
Just to confirm, here are the details from Henry and Helen's marriage certificate ...
Married 31st December 1925 @ The Kirklands, Queensferry (after banns according to CoS)
Henry Campbell, 24, able seaman - Royal Navy, HMS Columbine (parents John William Campbell, labourer (dec.) and Sarah Campbell m.s. Stewart (dec.))
Helen Barclay Lees, 23, distillery worker, Nicols Close, Queensferry (parents John Lees, slate miner and Agnes Lees m.s. Barclay)
Witnesses - Margaret Stables - 141 Granton Road, Leith and Charles Lees - West Terrace, South Queensferry
It would suggest that Henry may not appear in the 1901 census (probably born after the March of that year) so he will be a bit trickier to find.
I don't see any marriages for a John Campbell and Sarah Stewart in Scotland around the right period ... :-\
hume
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Henry Campbell b 1901 Edinburgh married Helen Barclay Lees Queensferry 1925.
Henry’s parent are Named as being deceased John William Campbell and Sarah Stewart.
Any info on John and Sarah ?
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Welcome to Rootschat.
How do you know Henry was born Edinburgh, 1901?
I have 4 births in Midlothian from 1900 to 1902 & none are just a Henry Campbell. There is a John Henry, Alexander Henry & 2 more with middle names
Did he have other middle names?
His marriage in Queensferry is 1926 on SP
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Only marriage on SP nearest to those names?
CAMPBELL JOHN STEWART SARAH MCKINNON 1907 Greenock East
If above is correct is this Henry
CAMPBELL HENRY 1908 Barrhead and Levern
As posted.
CAMPBELL HENRY LEES HELEN BARCLAY 1926 Queensferry
The only other marriage for a Henry to Helen?
CAMPBELL HENRY MCCALL HELEN 1925 Kelvin
Colin
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Is this Henry's death ?
Henry Campbell , age 73 , 1975 George Square Midlothian , mother's maiden surname Stewart.
ev
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Is this Henry's death ?
Henry Campbell , age 73 , 1975 George Square Midlothian , mother's maiden surname Stewart.
ev
Yes, I believe this is Henry's death, however on his marriage certificate it says his parents are deceased. I'm looking to see if Henry had any siblings.
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Welcome to Rootschat.
How do you know Henry was born Edinburgh, 1901?
I have 4 births in Midlothian from 1900 to 1902 & none are just a Henry Campbell. There is a John Henry, Alexander Henry & 2 more with middle names
Did he have other middle names?
His marriage in Queensferry is 1926 on SP
I don't know for sure that Henry was born in Edinburgh.
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Helen Barclay Lees born 1882, St Nicholas, Aberdeen
Obviously not the correct one.
Henry was an AB on HMS Columbine at the time of marriage
John Lees married Agnes Barclay, 1900, Larbert
Birth of a Helen Leighton Lees, 1902, Larbert
Death of Helen L.B. Campbell (Lees), 1969, Leith
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HMS Columbine was a Naval Base Depot Ship at Port Edgar, South Queensferry between 1917 and 1938. This would mean that Henry would be shore based.
On his marriage certificate what was his father's occupation? This is usually given even when deceased.
Welcome to rootschat from me too.
Dorrie
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He was a Labourer
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On the Naval Service records, there is a Henry Campbell, born Carlisle, July 1901.
There is also a Christening, Oct 1901, Arthuret, Cumberland for a Henry Campbell, parents William & Sarah.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3BW-3FZ
Found their marriage. Sarah Cummings. Not our family! Stumped with this one. Such a common name in Scotland.
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The witness at Henry's wedding was possibly Henry's older sister, cousin or aunt, Maggie Stables (nee Campbell). There is a marriage in 1907, Knockando, to a George Stables
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There is a naval record for a Henry Campbell which gives his date of birth as 20/7/1901 Carlisle. He enlisted on 20/7/1919.
Amongst the places he served was Columbine - July 1923 to January 1924 and again from April 1924 to February 1926. This second period of service would tie in with his marriage to Helen Barclay Lees.
Dorrie
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We can rule out the Maggie Campbell who married George Stables in 1907 as her parents were James Campbell and Isabella McDonald.
Back to the drawing board.
Dorrie
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I had dismissed the Carlisle link because the MMN was not Stewart but either Wenmor or Young
Possible census 1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSVN-XJH
Possible census 1911 Henry with brother James
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7K1-MVN
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Dorrie, is there any details on where he enlisted in 1919?
Monica
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There is this birth entry showing on the GRO indexes:
CAMPBELL, JOHN WILLIAM - MMN STEWART
GRO Reference: 1897 S Quarter in GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 936
I think it ties up with this 1901 entry in Dukinfield, Ashton under Lyne, Lancs. Everyone showing as born in Gateshead:
Sarah Campbell 35 married (I think original images shows Sarah as 25 not 35 as indexed)
Mary Campbell 1
Jno Willie Campbell 3
Wm Stuart 15 boarder
Monica
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Daughter Mary born 1900, her christening shows:
Mary Campbell
Baptism 26 Jul 1899 Gateshead, Gateshead
Father: John Alexander Campbell
Mother: Sarah Campbell
Still trying to find a reference to a son Henry. They seemed to have had another son Alexander b. 1904 in Gateshead. Trying to find this family in 1911 to include or discount.... :-\
Monica
Added: No sign of a Henry with this family in 1911 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWCK-WC8 John Campbell Snr here showing as a plumber by trade.
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Monica on looking at the record again (the writing is hard to make out) it seems that Henry Campbell first joined the Navy on 19/1/1917 as a boy and served on the training ship Ganges. At the top of the record it states Devonport - both are at Portsmouth. On 20/7/1919 he signed on for 12 years.
I don't know if I would be allowed to post his service record (1 sheet) here. Anyway the file may be too large.
Dorrie
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Not sure it can add anything further for now if there is no more personal details.
Hard search for sure!
Mary, have you considered applying for Henry's 1939 Register entry? See www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/nhs-central-register/about-the-register/1939-national-identity-register-and-how-to-order-an-official-extract It would give you a date of birth to aim for with searches.
Monica
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What are your thoughts on the 1901 & 1911 census records I posted on reply 25?
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Kloumann at your Reply#25 you said you had dismissed the Carlisle one because MMN was Wenmor or Young. ??
The 1901 Census could be Henry's parents and siblings. The 1911 Census shows both Henry and his brother James as Inmates.
I am still leaning towards the Carlisle birth being the Henry Campbell we are looking for.
Your thoughts on this please.
Dorrie
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Not sure where to go with this now, except trying to confirm his birth date (and hope he gave the right details then!).
If we take on board that he stated his mother to be a Sarah Stewart/Stuart at the time he married and on his death reg, I don't think we have anything concrete so far :-\
Dorrie, I can't access Royal Navy service records. Was the one you mentioned the only possible one? Nothing under the first name variant of Harry?
I wonder if there could be service records for Henry WW2? He was young enough (c. 39) to have been involved.
Monica
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Hi Monica it was the only one I could find but I will go back and have another look just to make sure.
If he did serve during WW2 his records would still be with the M.O.D. and would need to be specially applied for.
Another thing we must take into account is that many of WW1 records were lost during WW2 when London was bombed.
Dorrie
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Hi Monica I have searched the Navy records again using both Henry and Harry Campbell and nothing else relevant coming up.
However, there is another record for the Henry Campbell from Carlisle. He joined the Royal Naval Reserve in 1931. He then served from 1940 to 1945 mostly around the area of Rosyth/Port Edgar on the River Forth. Being discharged on 8/10/1945 at Lochinver which was a shore base in the Forth.
Doesn't help solve the original query but a bit more information.
Dorrie
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Reading through this all again. I agree with you both. I think it is likely that the Carlisle Henry could well be the right Henry.
With parents likely dying when Henry was young, not surprising if he got some details confused maybe :-\ From what you found, Kloumann, Sarah's maiden name I think was Young going by the children's birth regs.
His birthdate would fit with that Royal Navy record that you found Dorrie and location. His age at marriage also fits with that bith date. From the RN records also, and this helps lots, he would have been stationed in Queensferry on the HMS Columbine at the right time for the marriage.
Too many co-incidences?
Monica
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Yes, Monica the evidence does point to the Carlisle one being correct. I know that Campbell is a common surname especially in Scotland but not with the first name of Henry.
He was born in 1901 and by the 1911 Census he was in a home of some sort so it is quite possible that he may have been confused about his mother's maiden name.
Personally, I don't think there would be 2 Henry Campbell's serving on HMS Columbine in 1926.
One other piece of information I have found from the Edinburgh Electoral Registers is that Henry and his wife Helen lived for many years at 107 Granton Road, Edinburgh. Easily accessible to South Queensferry and the Naval Bases.
Dorrie
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This Henry's parents, William Campbell and Sarah Young married in 1889 in Lochmaben Dumfriesshire. Snip from their marriage below in the hope further details may be found:
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Sarah Young with family in 1881 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WM-4XYD
She also had a younger brother called John William https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J7FW-17M
Monica
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Good find Monica.
Now all we need is for Mary to come back on and give us her thoughts on our findings.
Dorrie
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Hi all, thanks for the help. However can I ask for some further help?
Harry Louden Campbell b1934 Edinburgh married Agnes Brodie Kerr Parker in Edinburgh 1953 Who were his siblings?
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This Henry's parents, William Campbell and Sarah Young married in 1889 in Lochmaben Dumfriesshire. Snip from their marriage below in the hope further details may be found:
Can someone decipher this for me?
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New topic started but will reply here to keep all the information together-
Thread locked.
Harry Louden Campbell b1934 Edinburgh married Agnes Brodie Kerr Parker in Edinburgh 1953 Who were his siblings?
When did Harry die? the informant may be a sibling but since he had been married just as likely to be wife or child.
If Harry did have any siblings they could possibly still be alive (we aren't allowed to post details of living, or possibly living, people)- my parents were born in the 1920s and are both living.
When did Henry's parents marry? that would be a good starting point to start searching for other children but with such a common surname like Campbell I suspect it will be extremely difficult without more details.
Did either parent leave a Will? if so it's possible that their surviving children were named (with possibly a location where they lived at the time the Will was written).
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For the avoidance of duplication and confusion, this topic continues at
Threads merged.
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Hi Mary.
To summarise what we have all found.
We know that Henry served on HMS Columbine & from his naval records, he was born in Carlisle in July 1901 to parents William Campbell & Sarah ( nee Young).
The 1901 census for Longtown has his parents & 4 siblings, John W, Joseph, Mary & James.
The 1911 census has him & his brother James as inmates in a residential school
In searching for a marriage of his parents, Monica found a marriage in Dumfries which fits the bill.
We have not been able to find his parents or other siblings on the 1911 census.
That is where we are at.
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A Harri Louden Campbell, born 27th Sept 1934, died Peterborough, M Quarter, 1980
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVZ7-D4TZ
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That sums it up nicely Kloumann.
Now for a summary of the marriage certificate -
William Campbell, Hawker, Bachelor, Marjoribanks Lochmaben - Parents - Joseph Campbell, Labourer, Deceased. Bella Campbell m.s. Kelly deceased.
Sarah Young (she made her x ) Hawker, Spinster, Marjoribanks, Lochmaben - Parents - Thomas Young, Hawker. Mary Young m.s. Davidson.
Dorrie
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I have found his brother, James birth record on SP
James Campbell, born 8th Sept 1898, Annan, Dumfries. Parents William Campbell, General Labourer & Sarah Young, married December 1888, Annan.
The Lochmaben marriage is correct.
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On the Electoral Register for 107 Granton Road in 1960 there are listed -
Henry Campbell, Helen Campbell, Agnes N. Campbell and Harry L. Campbell (marked S which means he was serving in the Forces)
On the 1965 Register there are the above plus an Ellen Campbell who may have been a sibling to Harry. I will take a look at the Index on Scotlands people to see what I can find.
Dorrie
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Possible death for his mother
CAMPBELL
SARAH other name YOUNG
36
1904
829/ 2
Hoddom
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I have had a look at the SP Index and there are a number of Ellen Campbell's coming up between the years of 1929 and 1946 in Edinburgh.
Unfortunately because of the 100 year rule no image is available online, sorry.
Dorrie
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One possible sister born in Haymarket/George Sq reg district in 1930. Double birth registration would normally imply that she was born in a different registration district to where the family normally lived in. Middle name of Barclay. Have a search on the index. Possible marriage to a Mr Bell in 1950 in Haymarket.
There is another possibility with a birth for a Michael Campbell in Haymarket in 1941 and a death showing in 2008 in Edinburgh Central, with mother's maiden name of Lee.
Once the Scotlands Peoples centres or local family history centres are open in Scotland, you can do a personal search (or arrange maybe for someone to do this on your behalf) where you can search for births from 1929 using mother's maiden name. You can't do this remotely online, has to be at one of the genealogy centres in Scotland. See www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/statutory-register-births
As Dorrie has mentioned, with privacy rules, this period is hard to find details of people online and then being able to verify the facts.
Monica
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Have Sarah's death record in Hoddom.
Sarah Campbell, married to William Campbell, Hawker, died 16th Jan 1904, Ecclefechan, parents Thomas Young & Mary Young, m.s. Davidson. (Both deceased) William present at death.
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Marriage of Thomas Young, 1867, Hexham to Mary Davison
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2HP-R4R
1871 census, Hexham
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V51S-K37
William Campbell is the 'Scarlet Pimpernel'
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With Sarah Young Campbell's death confirmed in 1904, I wonder what happened with husband William. Kloumann, that 1911 entry you found for Henry and brother James in Longtown has them at the workhouse, www.workhouses.org.uk/Longtown/
Either William, father, had returned to the area there before 1911, or they were returned there by a parish authority elsewhere as this was their birth parish. Who knows really :-\ From the above link, not sure there are any remaining records that would help with this.
Monica
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I think that the father William must have returned to the area after his wife's death.
James was born in Scotland and Henry in England so my feelings are that the boys were resident in England in 1911.
Dorrie
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There was still John William, Joseph & Mary, who remain unaccounted for.
There was a John Campbell, born Carlisle, joined the Navy but it listed his birth as 1889. John W. birth was 1891.