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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: bramble9 on Tuesday 06 September 11 09:08 BST (UK)

Title: Peter BARAGONITH
Post by: bramble9 on Tuesday 06 September 11 09:08 BST (UK)
I've just found my ancestors Nicholas and William Phillips in the 1861 census, living with their aunt and uncle Peter Baragonith and his wife Nancy in St Ives (all born St Ives, and Peter and Nancy are 52 and 57 respectively).

I am keen to work out how Peter and Nancy are related to the Phillips', but have been unable to find any trace of them in 1851 or the marriage records. Can anyone help?

A huge thank you in advance :)
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 06 September 11 09:16 BST (UK)
In 1851 their name is spelled as Baragwanath:

Reference HO107, Piece 1917, Folio 520, Page 43
Back Street, St Ives

Baragwanath, Peter  Head  M  45  Miner
Baragwanath, Nancy  Wife  F  47
Baragwanath, Benjamin  Son  M  20
Baragwanath, Peter  Son  M  14
Baragwanath, Elizabeth  Daughter  F  10
Baragwanath, Cath  Daughter  F  2               All born St Ives


Cornwall-OPC-Database (.org) has this marriage:

17th August 1828 @ St Ives by Banns
Peter Baragwanath, bachelor, of this parish    to
Ann Sisley, Spinster, of this parish

Witnesses: John Sisley, Thomas Williams
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: bramble9 on Tuesday 06 September 11 09:22 BST (UK)
Thank you so much! Is there any chance you could find them in 1841, too? I want a definite spelling of their name if poss although with a name like that might be tricky to find :/
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 06 September 11 09:30 BST (UK)
There's no such thing as a definite spelling in the mid-1800's!

Most of the population were hardly literate, and the spelling depended more on what whoever was writing it down was hearing.

For the marriage I quoted, for example, both bride & groom made their mark - they did not sign their names!  ;D

But 1841 census, reference HO107, 144, 5/31, 1
Sydal's Court, St Ives

Baragwanath, Peter  M  30  Copper Miner
Baragwanath, Nancy  F  30
Baragwanath, Nancy  F  12
Baragwanath, Benjamin  M  10
Baragwanath, Peter  M  5    all born in county

Remember that, in 1841, ages above 15 were rounded down to a multiple of 5 years.
So Peter & Nancy could have been any age from 30 to 34!
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 06 September 11 09:35 BST (UK)
You really should take a look at www <dot> cornwall-opc-database <dot> org!

I did a quick search and found 84 baptisms of Baragwanath between 1700 and 1840!
Plus another 6 non-conformist baptisms.
And 54 marriages!!  ;D

Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: bramble9 on Tuesday 06 September 11 09:39 BST (UK)
Oh wow, thanks for that! Have never heard of that site before so will have a look :) !
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: bramble9 on Tuesday 06 September 11 10:58 BST (UK)
have just looked - can't see a marriage for a Peter and Nancy :(
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 06 September 11 11:37 BST (UK)
Try searching for Baragwanath! ;D

It's that spelling thing again!

                                           Groom                              Bride          Witness 1          Witness 2 
Year  Parish Or Reg District Forename Surname          Forename Surname Forename Surname Forename Surname 
1828 Ives, St.                     Peter        BARAGWANATH Ann           SISLEY        John          SISLEY    Thomas    WILLIAMS
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: bramble9 on Tuesday 06 September 11 11:56 BST (UK)
Ah! Didn't spot that one before!

Surely that must be the right one - half of the offspring from the Phillips family had Sisley as a middle name! Perhaps she's a sister of the Phillips' brother's mother?  ???
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 06 September 11 12:27 BST (UK)
Another marriage for you!

9th March 1833 - St Ives, by Banns

Joseph Phillips, bachelor, otp to
Sibella Sisley, Spinster, otp

Both made their mark

Witnesses:
Nancy Baragwanath (Does that sound familiar?!?!  ;D)
Thomas Williams
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: bramble9 on Tuesday 06 September 11 12:32 BST (UK)
Perfect - thank you!

Don't suppose you fancy helping me find Joseph snr.'s dad? Or the parents of Nancy/Ann and Sibella? :D
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 06 September 11 12:50 BST (UK)
Baptism, 9th May 1804, St Ives

Nancy Sisley
Daughter of John and Sibella


Other baptisms to parents John & Sibella:
1792 John
1794 Elisabeth
1796 John
1798 Mary
1802 William


And a very interesting baptism:
1825, to Hugh and Mary Sisley
Sinai Baragwanath Sisley
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: bramble9 on Tuesday 06 September 11 12:57 BST (UK)
Oh, my head is spinning! Who are Hugh and Mary Sisley? I need to draw up a rough family tree to try and make sense of things  :)
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 06 September 11 13:24 BST (UK)
Sorry! I have no idea ;D ;D

Just saw the baptism, and as it's another link between Sisley/Braganwath, thoughht I'd let you know!
Title: Re: Baragonith
Post by: bramble9 on Tuesday 06 September 11 13:43 BST (UK)
Thank you! Surely they must be connected somehow...? I'd hope so at least, otherwise I am going to get very stuck, haha.
Title: Re: Peter BARAGONITH
Post by: OrganicJohn on Friday 09 September 11 12:51 BST (UK)
I wonder whether I might be descended from the same Baragwanath ancestors.My gt.gt.grandmother was Zenobia Sisley who married her cousin Thomas Bennetts Berriman(1822--1889).She was born 1825.As Zenobia is sometimes spelt Sinobia could she have been the ancestor you have found?Mary Baragwanath (1792--1847) married Hugh Sisley (1797--1864)  and her sister Zenobia married Mathew Berriman.Both the sisters were descended from the Baragwanath family of Towednack,near St.Ives who if Family Search are to be believed have been traced back to John Baragwanath(1590--1660)
Title: Re: Peter BARAGONITH
Post by: bramble9 on Friday 09 September 11 15:42 BST (UK)
Dear John,

One of my Phillips ancestors (b. 1878) had a daughter named Ellen Berriman Phillips... Sisley is a very prevalent middle-name amongst my Phillips. I'm sure they must be linked somehow! :)
Title: Re: Peter BARAGONITH
Post by: phillm86 on Monday 09 January 12 15:30 GMT (UK)
I believe Zenobia / Synobia STEVENS who married Richard BARAGWANATH in Dec 1729 was the Great Grandmother of the Peter BARAGWANATH who married Nancy / Ann SISLEY in Aug 1828.

Nancy / Ann SISLEY was an older sister of SIBELLA who married Joseph PHILLIPS in Mar 1833.

Nancy and Sibella's parents were John SISLEY and SIBELLA CARE. (All spellings vary).
Title: Re: Peter BARAGONITH
Post by: bramble9 on Sunday 29 January 12 16:49 GMT (UK)
Thank you for clarifying - it all gets so tricky! :)