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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: sonofthom on Tuesday 06 September 11 14:34 BST (UK)
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My greatx2 grandfather Alexander Sinclair was born in Ulster. I have just discovered he had an elder brother Archibald who according to the 1851 census was born in Argyll, Islay; however the 1861 census gives his place of birth as Ireland Their parents were Alexander Sinclair, a linen weaver, and Margaret Morrison. My concern is to establish whether the Islay link is plausible. Can anyone confirm whether there was a weaving industry, linen or otherwise, in Islay and whether there was a decline in the early 1800s that would result in a family moving to Ulster. Any other thoughts or suggestions are very welcome. Alex.
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Alex, do you think the ennumerator has just picked them up wrong? Skoosh.
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Skoosh, Problem is one or other census is clearly wrong, but which one? The 1851 census states "Argyle, Islay" and is much more specific than the 1861 census which simply states "Ireland". I have another ancestor who was born in Scotland but brought up in Ulster who was stated as born in Ireland in a subsequent Scottish census. Unfortunately Archibald Sinclair is a lodger in both the 1851 and 1861 census and so there are no other family members to research. His death certificate shows that he is a widower but I can find no trace of his wife, Mary Ann Bailly. Alex.
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I can’t really answer your question about the linen industry in Islay. What I would say is that many homes and farms in Ulster (and I suspect Islay) had a bit of hand loom weaving as a side industry rather than as the main source of income. It was very labour intensive and home weaving disappeared in Ulster around the 1850s due to mechanisation. I suspect it might have been the same in Scotland.
It’s not very far from Islay to Co Antrim. 25 miles or thereabouts. On a clear day you can see Islay easily from Ireland. (The 3 distilleries of Lagavulin, Laphroaig and Ardbeg on the south coast are all painted white and are very visible). In the 1800s, and earlier, people travelled back and forth all the time.
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Thanks for your input. Since my initial post I have found some on-line references to a book on the history of Islay by Clifford Jupp which confirms that there was a linen weaving industry in Islay in the 18th century but this was undermined by the import of cheaper cotton. As the name Sinclair was also common in Islay at this time my Islay connection is certainly plausible but by no means proved. Problem is that I can find no trace of my Sinclair line in Ulster other than through subsequent Scottish documents (which place them in Antrim) and I have only one reference to support the Islay possibility. I will keep researching and hopefully the answer is there to be found. Alex.
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Hello Sonofthom.
My Kirkland link goes back to Islay for 1841 where the family are staying next to a family of weavers (Initially I thought that they were also HLW - Hand Loom Weavers but there is no occupation given for William Kirkland). When I have looked at Jane White's death her father was a given as a taylor/tailor. Her father was an Alexander White and his wife was a Sinclair from Islay. I think the tailor and weaver may be closely related. There are some families who stayed and weaved on Islay - I even think some of the Kirklands were weavers. There was another family too called Adair they stayed on the island and continued to weave. Alexander's wife's mother was a McVoran which apparently can be interpreted as Morrison.
I am hoping to get up to Islay in May to have a look around.
Yours NG.
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Thanks Northern Girl. Apparently the Islay Sinclairs had previously been known as MacNacaerds but for some reason they all changed their name to Sinclair and the alternative form died out by about 1750 - it doesn't make it any easier when there were such substantial name changes, as is also the case with McVoran/Morrison. My greatx2 grandfather was born in Ulster in about 1813 and so far the only sibling I have traced is his brother Archibald who was probably born in Islay in about 1799.. The family returned to Scotland in 1840, although they had been in Renfrewshire a few years before that. I clearly need to trace brothers and sisters of Alexander and Archibald but so far they are proving elusive! Enjoy your trip to Islay - so far I have never been there but a family connection seems a good excuse for a visit - perhaps this year.
Alex.
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Hello again Alex.
I went up to Islay for a few days which proved quite productive. I was blessed with some very sunny weather - too hot really. The views were fantastic.
I had a look at a few books for sale that have been written about the island. I didn't have time to see if there was a library around that I could use. I had a quick look through the books. As much as I can make out the island was improved by one of the Campbell family who imported weavers from the Glasgow area. There is a small hamlet on the east shore called Keills and it was there that the weavers were housed. I think the investment was not successful and the weavers either went elsewhere or changed occupations.
I spent my last day looking around for the place where my Kirkland family were in 1841. The place name has the vexing title of Leacachrin - or something like that. It was near or between Balulve and Mulreesh. There are traces of old buildings that were apparently part of a lead mine but I cannot say for certain which would have housed a group of weavers and their families. Even in the basking sunshine the conditions are harsh and potentially desolate.
I don't know what time frame this imported weavers experiment was but think it may have been in the middle or late 1700's. I'm going to see if I can get a copy of the books here in England.
Jacqueline.
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Have a read of this Islay site http://www.islayinfo.com/islay_campbells_campbell.html which puts the time frame a little earlier 1700 to 1750's given the Shawfield connection it may also explain the alleged connection to Glasgow.
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My great great grandfather Hugh Sinclair (c1844 - 1872) was from Islay and his father Colin Sinclair was a handloom weaver. However, Colin Sinclair was born In Glassary about 1794 and seems to have gone to live on Islay.
abrach1
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Sonof, Macnacaerds looks like Mac na Ceard, son of the tinker ;-)
Skoosh.
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HI Alex and Jacqueline,
I am decended from Johnstons and Campbells on Islay and while I haven't been to Islay, I have been researching it on and off for 20 years and hooked up with some older researchers around 2000 who wrote fairly extensive messages on the Islay rootsweb pages. There was definitely a Toni Sinclair researching in that group.
In the 1840 census I have family living at Keils:
1841 Census
Mary Johnston and children were found living at Islay during the 1841 Scottish Census. Angus has not been found.
Parish No Place Name Surname Age Occupation Born
Kilmeny 227 6 Keills Mary Johnson 35 Ind. ARY
Kilmeny 227 6 Keills Mary Johnson 12 ARY
Kilmeny 227 6 Keills Janet Johnson 7 ARY
Kilmeny 227 6 Keills Angus Johnson 3 ARY
Kilmeny 227 6 Keills Alexander Johnson 2 ARY
Kilmeny 131 20 Ballygrant John Johnston 14 ARY
Not sure what they were doing there and most of them ended up in Glasgow by the 1850s.
I don't know if that helps.
Best wishes,
Rowena
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Thanks Rowena. I have still not managed to trace any siblings of my great x2 grandfather apart from his brother Archibald Sinclair who seems to have been born in Islay. I followed your lead to Rootsweb but it is currently offline but I will keep a watch on this for when it becomes accessible again.
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Hi Rowena.
It is October 2nd 2018 now.
Thanks for your reply - which I have just found now.
I've had my DNA tested in April and have it on Ancestry and the common DNA test kit user site Gedmatch. As a coincidence it was one of my Kirkland cousins that gifted me the kit and it was she also that showed me Gedmatch. She has had her DNA tested also. My kit number is A221634 if you or others linked to Islay are interested. Another possible cousin - one of the Kirkland who emigrated to Canada from Islay is having his DNA tested so there will be another kit to analyse.
The cousin who gifted me the kit, R. and I have a direct common ancestor and through that obviously back to Islay. We both would be connected to the Sinclair/Campbell line.
I did go back up to Islay again to try to find the elusive place for where my ancestors were for the 1841 census - the Hand Loom Weavers but even a seventeen mile trek around the area gave no definite site. It looks as if John Kirkland who was head of the household died but I am not sure if that was Islay or Bute where the family seemed to have moved to for the 1851 census. I haven't found a death for John yet.
You are correct about Toni Sinclair it was she who suggested the Mc Na Cearnard connection - I think.
Great minds must think alike as I also did a lot of extensive reading on the Campbell of Shawfield and have come to the same conclusion; that Campbell possibly imported people from the main land to begin his linen industry and my ancestor came before 1776. Another possibility is that my Kirkland came from the Skipness area.
Jacqueline
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hi try this link for islay records
http://sites.rootsweb.com/~sctislay/~tlarson/bdm/