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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: magslote on Wednesday 07 September 11 11:29 BST (UK)
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Looking for family of Charles Chapman, born
1876 in London, perhaps Catford,in
1911 census he is living in Luton, in an
Institution where I do not know,any
help welcomed
many thanks Margaret.
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Hi
In 1891 Census for example, there are at least 6 x Charles CHAPMAN born London 1876/1877 - and that's just the one's without a middle name/initial.
Do you know anything else at all about your Charles CHAPMAN that might identify him?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Ambly
The Charles in 19 blah blah, I put in birthplace of London and he came up living in the Inst. in Fulham
aged 35yrs, poor man.
Nothing in 1881 census for Chapman's in Catford.
Tinam
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Thankyou both so very much, bless him, , its good people care, and respond
to you request so quickley, many thanks ,Margaret.
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Hi
In 1891 Census for example, there are at least 6 x Charles CHAPMAN born London 1876/1877 - and that's just the one's without a middle name/initial.
Do you know anything else at all about your Charles CHAPMAN that might identify him?
Cheers
AMBLY
No sorry.Margaret.
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Hi Tinam
The one I saw in blabla :) in an Institution in Luton, Beds age 34 - born London.
I guess either one of them could be an inmate, a patient or an employee of said institution ....
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/search.page/index/census_1911
http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx?4
Cheers
AMBLY
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No sorry.Margaret.
That's a pity :'(
As it will be very hard to find anything out about him without some other clue. I can only suggest the full 1911 Census might give a marital status, or an occupation for him that may lead somewhere.
What makes you say he might be born in Catford?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thankyou to you both, and I will, try to find more imfo on this
Institution in Luton, thankyou.Margaret.
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The one in the institution in Luton doesn't seem to have a birthplace of Catford, just London, nor is there another Chapman in the institution. As Ambly says, you need to check the full entry, which will involve the outlay of £6-95 which is the minimum amount you can buy credits for. You might then get an expanded birthplace which might narrow down the search for him in earlier censuses
How can you know the one in a Luton Institution is yours if you know nothing more about him.
David
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Thankyou David,Margaret.
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Knowing your aversion to giving your credit card number online, I used up a few credits.
The institution was the York Model Registered Lodging House, 43 York St Luton.
Chapman, Charles Lodger 34 single Hawker b London
The next entry was
Chamman, Harry Lodger 31 single Hawker b London
I wonder if Chamman is a transcription or enumeration error for Chapman. Seems a bit of a coincidence otherwise
David
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Wow, ! thats great David, thankyou for
your kindness, Best Wishes Margaret.
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Hi Margaret
The Charles Chapman you seek - you do know he has a sister named Charlotte:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,553993.0/topicseen.html
where the topic was:
I have a Charlotte Chapman, born 1876, London,Sydeham, dau of Samuel 1851 Herts,and Annie
Brazier,she dies1885, aged 50,Charlotte maries Albert William Thurley
in 1898,at Lewisham,they have a son Ernest 1900 in Penge, but the
family in 1911 are in Croydon, many thanks.Margaret.
And the name of her parents are, I presume, also the name of his parents (unless they were half siblings for eg).
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi
In 1891 Census for example, there are at least 6 x Charles CHAPMAN born London 1876/1877 - and that's just the one's without a middle name/initial.
Do you know anything else at all about your Charles CHAPMAN that might identify him?
Cheers
AMBLY
No sorry.Margaret.
I have to say Margaret that trying to help you is sometimes like doing up shoelaces with one hand. So you DID know more about him. You knew he had a sister. You know his parents' names. Why not tell us? Looking for a Charles Chapman with a sister Charlotte born 1876 Sydenham with parents Samuel and Annie in a census would have been much easier. As it is I'm sure you're capable of looking them up yourself in the 1881 census which you can consult free at www.familysearch.org
I'm out of here
David, somewhat irked, in France
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1881: 3 Orchard Place, Parish of Lewisham, London
Head: Samuel CHAPMAN 31, Gas Stoker, b Herts
Wife: Annie 27, b Lewisham, Kent
Dau: Charlotte 5, b Lewisham, Kent
Dau: Rose K? 3, b Lewisham, Kent
Son: Fred T, 1, b Lewisham, Kent
RG11 / Piece: 739 / Folio: 101 / Page: 27
(RD Lewisham, Sub RD Sydenham)
1891: 13 Stanton Square, Parish of Lewisham, London
Head: Samuel CHAPMAN 40, Labourer, b Affley, Herts
Wife: Sarah A 25, b Salsoe, Bedfordshire
Son: Frederick T, Scholar, b Catford, Kent
Son: William J, Scholar, b Catford Kent
(no ages written down for the 2 sons)
RG12 / Piece: 524 / Folio 14 / Page 21
And as shown above, there is no Charles in the household of the Samuel CHAPMAN you mention!
I also notice two things:
1)
The Charles Chapman you seek born abt 1876
The Charlotte Chapman as is sister, born abt 1876
2) The 1881 Census image is not good quality. If one isn't checking that "Charlotte" is a daughter - then it might easily be read as "Charles".
I am suspecting there was never a Charles. Only Charlotte - who has been misread in the 1881!
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi
In 1891 Census for example, there are at least 6 x Charles CHAPMAN born London 1876/1877 - and that's just the one's without a middle name/initial.
Do you know anything else at all about your Charles CHAPMAN that might identify him?
Cheers
AMBLY
No sorry.Margaret.
I have to say Margaret that trying to help you is sometimes like doing up shoelaces with one hand. So you DID know more about him. You knew he had a sister. You know his parents' names. Why not tell us? Looking for a Charles Chapman with a sister Charlotte born 1876 Sydenham with parents Samuel and Annie in a census would have been much easier. As it is I'm sure you're capable of looking them up yourself in the 1881 census which you can consult free at www.familysearch.org
I'm out of here
David, somewhat irked, in France , you do not have to help me David, it seems you have your nose into all the Rootschat requests, there are helpful peole out there, a very offended Margaret, goodbye
and THANKYOU.
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"you do not have to help me David" - I know that. I've learned my lesson.
"it seems you have your nose into all the Rootschat requests" - only Beds Cambs and Hunts. I don't follow any other boards.
"there are helpful peole out there" - so I was being UNhelpful when I used my own money, which I didn't begrudge doing, to look up the 1911 census for you?
"a very offended Margaret" - I don't know why, but so be it
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lets not fall out over this David, let bygones, be bygones,
forgive and for get, and try to still do a good job helping
people with their family history, has best we can, life is too short
for disputes lets shake on this, and make a fresh start. life cut my husbands life,when he died in 2004
aged 62. Margaret.
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Does anyone know when Samuel Chapman died. He is descended from Isaac Chapman and Elizabeth Upchurch.
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Welcome to Rootschat.
Unless Samuel was connected to the Charles Chapman, the subject of this thread, it's better to start a new topic.
Can you tell us a bit more. When and where was Samuel born? How is he connected to Isaac Chapman and Elizabeth Upchurch, son, grandson or what. I see they were married in Kings Walden Herts on 23 Apr 1845 per the IGI, which makes it even more vital that you tell us more about Samuel.
David
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Samuel Chapman (1850 to ?) was 1 of 8 children of Elizabeth Upchurch and Isaac Chapman. Samuel was born in Kings Walden but was living in Sydneham, Kent in the 1911 Census with his second wife.
I am related via one of Elizabeth Upchurch sisters. The Upchurch's never travelled further than Lilley or Offley in Hertfordshire.
I am wanting to know if any one is aware when Samuel Chapman died. Also his brothers who I have found in the Census, but when they died is a mystery to me.
JJF
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Giving too much information is better than not giving enough. If you want the deaths of his brothers then at least give us the names of the brothers and their years of birth, and when and where you found them in censuses.
But we are likely to just look on www.freebmd.org.uk which is free for all to use. With a common name like Chapman it's going to be very difficult to separate them though.
Sydenham was in Lewisham registration district. There's a death of Samuel Chapman aged 93 in Lewisham registration district in the Sept quarter 1943 vol 1d page 602. If you purchase the certificate at http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ you'll get more information
David
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Children of Elizabeth Upchurch and Isaac Chapman of Offley and Kings Walden, Hertfordshire.
1) William Chapman. Born 1846, Kings Walden.
He married Margaret.
In the 1911 Census he was living in Thornton, Stony Stratford, Buckinghamshire.
2) Arthur Chapman. Born 1848, Kings Walden.
He married Ann Wood.
In the 1911 Census he was living in Dunstable, Bedfordshire.
3) Samuel Chapman. Born 1850, Kings Walden.
He married firstly Annie Elizabeth Brasier. He then married Sarah Ann King.
In the 1911 Census he was living in Sydneham, Kent.
4) Frederick Chapman. Born 1852, Kings Walden.
He married Mary.
In the 1911 Census he was living in East Bedort, Feltham, Middlesex.
5) Edwin Chapman. Born 1854, Ostrich End, Kings Walden. Died 1932, Ilkeston, Derbyshire.
He married Ann Stevens.
In the 1911 Census he was living at Ilkeston, Derbyshire.
6) Elizabeth Emma Chapman. Born 1858, Offley. Died 1949, St Albans, Hertfordshire.
She married George Hill.
In the 1911 Census she was living at Harpenden, Bedfordshire.
7) Sarah Chapman. Born 1861, Offley. Died 1862, Offley.
8) Sidney Chapman. Born 1866, Offley.
He married Martha Jane Young.
In the 1901 Census he was living at Sheffield, Yorkshire
What I would like to know is when William, Arthur, Samuel and Sidney Chapman died. With quite a few Chapmans appearing in the English Death Indexes I am having trouble trying to find the correct ones.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
JJF
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Hello, JJF Samuel Chapman 1850, his 2nd wife,
Sarah Ann King,she is my great aunt,the Kings
lived at Silsoe, and were servants at Wrest Park, Margaret.
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You must appreciate that our access to death records in the 20th century is no different to yours, except where Freebmd has not transcribed an area which might be found on Ancestry. If you've found a possibility the only way to verify whether or not it's your Chapman is to shell out £9-25, and even then there's no guarantee that you can prove it if you don't know the address or the informant. The NBI won't be of much help as there are very few 20th century burials.
So all you can do is what I did with Samuel:
1) look for a death in the registration district where he last lived
2) where the age at death matches the assumed birth
3) Of course if he moved from the 1911 address you're stuck.
- there are no William Chapman death registrations in Potterspury registration district, which is where Stony Stratford is situated. The closest is a William who died in 1917 in Newport Pagnell RD aged 75, which is four years adrift.
- Arthur Chapman - how about the 84 year old in Luton RD which includes Dunstable, in the March quarter 1931
- Samuel - see my previous post
- Sidney - can't see anything obvious. Who might be his wife died in the March quarter 1936 in Sheffield aged 67
David
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It has been a while since my lost post but after some research I have manged to find out when most of these people have died.
William Chapman. Born 1846, Kings Walden - I do not know when he died.
Arthur Chapman. Born 1848, Kings Walden. Died 1931, Luton. His wife died in 1912 in Luton.
Samuel Chapman. Born 1850, Kings Walden. Died 1943, Lewisham, Kent. His second wife Sarah died in 1957, Lewisham, Kent. All of his chlidren by his first wife married.
Frederick Chapman. Born 1852, Kings Walden - I do not know when he died.
Edwin Chapman. Born 1854, Kings Walden. Died 1932, Ilkeston, Derbyshire.
Elizabeth Emma Hill nee Chapman. Born 1858, Offley. Died 1949, St Albans, Herts.
Sidney Chapman. Born 1866, Offley. Died 1948, Clay Cross, Derbyshire. His wife Martha died in 1935, Sheffield, Yorkshire.
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Thankyou so much to you all.Margaret.