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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: markharrison1973 on Thursday 08 September 11 13:11 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Has anyone any information on Street Names in Kingston Circa 1890-1910.
Looking for the above but cant find. Had a look in Thoms Directory for 1879 but to no avail.
Did find a Tivoli Ave in Harolds cross area but a birth certificate I have mentions Tivoli Ave/ cross Ave which would suggest the area round about Tivoli Terrace / Tivoli Road in Kingston.
Are there any Old maps sites like you get in UK.
Cant find any mention of Echo Court or Hacienda Court.
Regards
Mark.
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Have a look at the OSI (Ordnance Survey of Ireland) historic maps - see : Kingstown/Dún Laoghaire (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,724032,728591,4,10)
The 25" Historic Map is from c1890
p.s. the birth cert you mentioned will show a registration district of Dublin South if it took place in Harold's Cross, and Rathdown if it took place in Kingstown.
If you post the registration, and registrars district details listed on the cert I may be able to narrow down the area for you.
Shane
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Thanks Shane,
The Baptism record is from Roots Ireland and it states Parish/District: Kingstown
Under notes it says: Address: Tivoli Ave/Cross Ave.
Think the mother died shortly after birth ( no father listed) so details may be Sketchy.
1901 Census also confirms Tivoli Avenue in Kingstown
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Kingstown/Tivoli_Avenue/1319509/
Echo Court also listed in Kingstown
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Kingstown/Echo_Court/1318795/
Could be Haisards or Halsaids Court for other one. Listed on marriage Certificate.
I've clipped the small image.
Regards Mark.
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There's no mention of Echo court in the County Dublin Street index I have for 1904 .. so maybe it was gone by then.. I'll check earlier listings, but smaller streets are not always listed.
1904 Co. Dublin Street Index (http://roots.swilson.info/codublin1904streetidx.html)
(some of the pages were difficult to scan without risking damage.. )
Where was the marriage that mentioned 'Haisards Court' and who did it relate to (i.e. bride or groom) ?
Shane
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The marriage was at St Michaels RC Church, Kingston No1 in Rathdown, June 6th 1904. Address is for Patrick Byrne Previously of Echo Court (1901) then after of Sarsfield Street (1911) in his marriage to Mary Breslin of Tivoli Avenue.
There is a small street at the end of Cross avenue that dosent seem to have a name on the map you sent me a link to. Could have been it as Tivoli terrace / Tivoli road are close bye.
According to the 1901 census Tivoli Avenue had at leased 21 houses / addresses on it.
I noted also in the 1911 Census the only Tivoli Avenue is the one in Rathmines/ Harolds Cross IE not in Kingston. I wonder if a lot of the Streets just changed name.
Regards
Mark
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Is this the small street you mean on the 25" map ?
side street off Cross Ave. (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,724005,728414,7,9)
Shane
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It was, maybe too small to have 21 addresses?
That sites brilliant by the way. thanks.
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that's what I was thinking too..
re your previous question - streets changed all the time, some where covered in by redevelopment etc, and some were renamed. Finding the smaller streets can sometimes be difficult as they tend not to listed in directories and are often not labelled on maps.
Shane
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The area you are looking at is a small lane between two shops and if you were to build on it today you would only get one or two town houses on it Dun laoghaire was full of small lanes and courts until around 1900 the corporation started to build houses for the" working class".
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Hassards court (later Echo court) were part of area between patrick street and convent road on cross ave known as Paradise row they were replaced with the development of the streets which were built off cross ave early 1900s ,sarsfield street is in an area known as sallynoggin about 2km from cross ave
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"Hassard's court Dunleary" has 24 mentions in Griffiths:
Including a James Byrne. may be a relative or just coincidence.
Hassard's Court, Dublin - Griffith's Valuation (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doPlaceSearch&Submit.x=36&Submit.y=10&Submit=Submit&freetext=hassard%27s+court&countyname=DUBLIN&baronyname=&unionname=&parishna) (AskAboutIreland.Com)
See the map. Shane, sorry about the long link, I must practice the shrink link option!
PM
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Thanks Edenville, I can see Paradise Row on the older map that Shane posted a link to. I can make out Bryans Court and Millikens Court but others are not named. Interesting you said that Hassards Court became Echo Court as the 1901 Census lists Echo and the 1904 marriage Cert refers to Hassards.
Suppose they could have just been refering to the old name when they got married.
The Tivoli Avenue is still a mystery.
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Tivoli Avenue also appears on The Griffiths Valuation List. Going by the names that surround it, I think it may also be part of Paradise Row at the junction with Cross Ave. Its on the same page as Hassards Court.
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Thanks Edenville, I can see Paradise Row on the older map that Shane posted a link to. I can make out Bryans Court and Millikens Court but others are not named. Interesting you said that Hassards Court became Echo Court as the 1901 Census lists Echo and the 1904 marriage Cert refers to Hassards.
Suppose they could have just been refering to the old name when they got married.
The Tivoli Avenue is still a mystery.
Don't honestly know the ansewer to that markybhoy ,the street of Desmond ave south off cross ave was built in 1904 the lane way to the rear of the houses was the location of 25 houses of tivoli avenue i think if you look at the old map this mite be near longs row and bonds lane
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"Echo Court" is a very odd name, I can't think of how it might have been derived. Hassard may have been from a family of that name who landowners. plenty of documentary evidence for them, but no obvious connection to this street. Interesting!
PM
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If you look at the historic 6 map Hassards Court is indicated behind Paradise Avenue, approx where Dominic Street is on historic 25. It is also on the Griffiths Map with a lot more buildings round about. Looks like there is a place called Echo Lodge where the Convent was built too. Cant quite follow where you recon Tivoli Ave was though possibly one of the small lanes off of Cross Ave near Hassards.
Regards Mark.
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The area is paradise row/cross ave......... if you look at an up to date map it is basically at Desmond ave and where Tivoli terrace is now situated,Dominican convent Dun laoghaire was originally Echo lodge a large house owned by a protestant clergyman until 1847
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there's a mention in Thom's 1848 of a Tivoli Avenue at somewhere named Tivoli Hill :
Tivoli Avenue (Tivoli Hill)
24 small houses
see : link (http://roots.swilson.info/towns1848/img/king5.html)
and an Echo Hall :
George's St Lwr, Kingstown
Jas. Dawson esq., Echo Hall,
see : link (http://roots.swilson.info/towns1848/img/king2.html)
presumably this is associated with the Echo Lodge mentioned earlier by edenville.
Shane
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From "Historical Street Directory of Kingstown - Dun Laoghaire", published by the Dun Laoghaire Borough Historical Society in 2000.
"Desmond Avenue, which extends south off Cross Avenue, was built in 1904 as part of a housing scheme for the working classes. The laneway to the rear of the houses on the west side of Desmond Avenue was originally the location of the 25 houses of Tivoli Avenue which faced onto the lane..." - page 21
and
"The east end of Dominick Street was originally the location of Hassards Court, later called Echo Court ..." - page 21
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Brilliant, mystery solved.
I was sure it was round about that area.
Its nice to have some actual proof.
Regards Mark.
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I've just found out that my Grandmother was born in 58 Glasthule Road, October 1917. Are there any Electoral or other registers from this time that you could find who else was living at that address.
Regards Mark.
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Can't help with electoral rolls, but here are the families in that road in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Glasthule/Glasthule_Road/
and in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Kingstown_No__4/Glasthule_Road/
As you probably know, House numbers in the census are not the same often as postal addresses.
Just in case the family was there before she was born.
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Unfortunately the family in question were residing at Sarsfield Street in 1911. they immigrated to Scotland sometime between then and 1930, but think that they were all still in Kingstown till the mid 1920's.
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So my Grandmothers parents died in 1918 (aged 1) and 1920 (aged 3). Family Stories say that she was raised by nuns. Watching Boy George's Who do you think you are, he has a similar story that refers to Golden Bridge Convent in Dublin. Was there a similar facility in Dun laoghaire. Are there any entry records of these facilities. Her name Was Bridget Byrne. In 1933 she is resident in Scotland working as a Domestic Servant which seems typical of girls brought up in the Convent. Presumably she would have been there until she was 16 / 1939. Any Help Appreciated. Regards Mark Harrison
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You could try writing to the Sisters of Mercy
I did a family tree for a friend and found his g grandfather died in 1897 and his widow was on the census minus a few children
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/North_Dock/Church_Place/1274449/
the widow married the lodger in June 1901 and was on the 1911 census with the children i was looking for
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Irvine_Terrace/14436/
so i looked for the girls in 1901 and found them here in Carysfort Ave,Convent
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Blackrock/Carysfort_Avenue/1314339/
the convent was basically an orphanage around that time but changed shortly after 1901 as the children were transferred to different industrial schools throughout the country the girls in question were transferred to Goldenbridge around late 1901/2
the above info i got from the Sisters of Mercy with some info stating that the mother had since remarried and had a comfortable home so could get her children back.
I had drafted a letter for my friend which he copied and signed and sent it off to Sisters of Mercy,sorry cant remember where address was as it was sometime ago.
Dathai