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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Huntingdonshire Lookup Requests => Huntingdonshire => England => Completed Huntingdonshire Look ups => Topic started by: Aus_Mike on Saturday 10 September 11 01:44 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
Would anyone know where I should look for the baptism details for Richard who, from his children's death certs, was born in Huntingdon in 1824? I've also seen a reference for his birth to the town / parish of Erith but can't find it on maps / GENUKI.
Richard led an eventful life. He emigrated first to New Zealand where he & his wife Priscilla were married in 1848, then moved to South Australia where they had 1 child then to the Victorian gold fields where they had another 4. I believe he then returned to New Zealand where he passed away in 1902 whereas Priscilla passed away in Victoria in 1911.
I've been researching my family history mainly on the AUS / NZL side and am now trying to extend it back into the UK. However, I'm still just beginning to learn about your search sites & indexes.
I'd appreciate some guidance on how to find the reference and where to get an image/certificate (I understand it probably won't be free).
Best regards,
Mike
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Hi Mike ,
I had a look online for his baptism but found nothing.
Huntingdon is now in Cambridgeshire , did you mean the parish of Earith (Bluntisham ) I beleive the church records for there are held by the Huntingdon FHS http://www.huntsfhs.org.uk/ maybe some one local to the area could do a look up for you.
Does his marriage certificate give his fathers name ?
Jane
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Hi Jane,
Thanks for you prompt response.
No, the marriage cert is just a free-form entry by the minister in the register listing the groom and bride, the parish (Kawaw) and that they were married in his church (St. Pauls) "by banns and with consent of her Parent" as, by my calcs, Priscilla was 14 or 15 at the time.
Richard's death cert is equally unhelpful with "not known" for his Parents, Marriage and Issue entries. "Where born" is "England" and "How long in New Zealand" is "58 years" which refers to his first arrival in NZL, before he moved to SA & VIC and had his family (1848-1860). The NZL electoral rolls show him returned to NZL in 1870.
I have yet to determine if Priscilla went back to NZL with him but suspect not as the family would still have been too young to leave behind - they all married in VIC.
To give you an idea of what life was like at the time, their eldest daughter, Elizabeth, had her first child in 1870 in Graytown, a VIC goldrush settlement. In Dec 1869, Graytown had a population of 12,000; in Dec 1870, after the gold "gave out", the population was 150. There's an entire town surveyed and visible on Google maps, but if you then use Google streetview, it's all bushland. Elizabeth, her husband and child moved to NSW where she raised a large family and lived until 1943 (age 91). Her death cert is blank for the Parents entry and I've never found her marriage certificate. With so mush population movement driven by "gold fever", it's no wonder there a gaps in the records.
Thanks for your suggestion about the Huntingdon FHS. I'll send them an email.
Thanks & Regards,
Mike
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I beleive the church records for there (Bluntisham cum Earith) are held by the Huntingdon FHS http://www.huntsfhs.org.uk/
No. The parish register is held at Huntingdon Archives. Hunts FHS has a transcription available for sale on fiche. But Bluntisham baptisms have been extracted onto the IGI at www.familysearch.org, and there's no Richard Bell. There's a whole string of daughters of William & Rhoda Bell baptised in Bluntisham from 1822 onwards, with a handy little gap between christenings from Nov 1822 to May 1825. William Bell married Rhoda Jackson in Bluntisham in 1821.
Rhoda Bell aged 40 was buried in Bluntisham on 13 Nov 1838, and William aged 58 on 9 Jul 1851.
In 1841 living in Earith were William Bell 50 ag lab, Rhoda Bell 10 and Sarah Bell 15, all born in Hunts. In 1851 still in Earith were William Bell head widower 68 labourer, Sarah Bell dau unmarr 24; Rhoda Bell grand dau 1. All born Earith. There were no other Bells in Earith.
Did Richard name any of his many children Rhoda? Do you know when he emigrated?
Might Richard be an unbaptised son of William and Rhoda, who were the only Bells in Bluntisham at around the right time judging by baptism and burial records? Pure speculation so far! Would be difficult to prove too.
Hunts is not the easiest county to research online as the LDS was refused permission to film many parish registers, so consequently there are no transcripts, and the only place to consult the registers is at Huntingdon Archives, who run a friendly research service for those who can't get to Huntingdon.
David
That'll teach me read the subject line properly. It's BELL I should have been searching for, not GRAY! Hang about, I'll now look for BELL. My excuse is that it was only 7a.m. and I haven't had breakfast yet!
Later, still no breakfast - message cunningly amended to make it appear that it was BELL I was working on
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David,
That sounds like a perfectly good excuse to me ... :) Thanks for helping anyway.
The excuse that I have for responding so quickly is that I'm chewing up a perfectly good AUS Saturday afternoon doing my tax !!! ???
Good luck with the search.
Mike
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Mike
I'd much rather be doing genealogy than tax returns, particularly before breakfast.
My original response has now been amended to make it seem as though I really knew what I was doing
David
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David,
As I was typing this your update came in. I haven't reworked it but, after a sturdy breakfast, I think you'll handle it ... :)
And that will teach me to read your posts carefully ...
Apologies, I hadn't realised when I sent my last that you'd reworked it for BELL.
It must be the tax that's befuddled my brain. :)
First, thank you for the info and for your trouble. Also apologies for the time taken to correct my gaff.
Next, to answer your questions:
1. Rhoda's in the family - Not in his children or grandchildren, direct line or cousins.
2. Emigration to NZL - I believe in 1843, aged 20 according to the ship's muster:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/Westminster.htm
3. Unbaptised son - It's possible. Could William not be Richard's father or adopted with Gray the name of the birth father?
This is a naming "practise" I've found in 2 other branches of my family in Northumberland. Was it followed in Hunts?
4. Huntingdon Archives research service - This looks like the next option for me. Thanks for the lead.
Thanks again & I hope you enjoyed you breakfast.
Best Regards,
Mike
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Another option is that Richard was an illegitimate son of a Bell, who gave him the middle name of Gray as a hint as to his father
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David,
Thanks for your last comment. It got me thinking about this "naming practice" in the other branches of my family and I went looking for Mr. Richard Gray ... To cut to the chase ...
Richard Gray Baker married Elizabeth Bell in St. Giles Cambridge on 25 Mar 1819 and they had a son, Richard Gray, on 16 Sep 1823. I could find no other children and no death cert for Richard Gray Snr.
I presume they must have separated and Elizabeth returned to her maiden name. Does this sound reasonable?
It's just gone midnight here and I'm calling off the hunt for now.
Regards,
Mike
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Hi David,
So, latest findings are:
- older brother Richard Grey born 1821 - presumably deceased in infancy
- Richard Gray born 1823
- younger brother William Bell born 1827
- mother Elizabeth probably born 1798 to William & Mary in Bluntisham-cum-Earith
However, I'm interested in finding out what happened to family after William's birth but have hit the wall.
Do you have any further suggestions?
Regards,
Mike
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We were working in parallel, as I'd just found the other two children!
The National Archives at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=272-kcar6-2_1-1&cid=30-6-9#30-6-9 has a reference to an 1830 map of Cambridge drawn by Richard Gray Baker.
I'm pretty convinced this is the right family, and am checking censuses at the moment
David
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Robert Gray Baker infant was buried at Bluntisham on 6 Jan 1822
Robert appears to be an error for Richard
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You may have seen this already - a newspaper letter from Richard Gray Bell http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=OW18960514.2.199&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0--
Also at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pauatahanui/PriscillaRobertsBell.html there's a transcript of a letter from Richard's wife Priscilla who had recently married an Italian.
David
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david,
Thank you again for continuing to pursue this. The newspaper article, maps & letter really contribute aspects to the story that I'd never thought achievable.
I must say I'm in awe of the diversity of your sources and the speed with which you can draw on them.
I've now found the VIC cert for Priscilla's marriage to Giovanni (1873/reg 2284). The letter nailed it. I'd previously been searching much later and missed it. I'll also (when I figure out how :) ) try to get the divorce / desertion notice.
I had also tried to check the censuses to find out what happened to Richard Gray senior and mother Elizabeth but still don't have enough detail to filter out the many options. I'm down to a likely 4 for Elizabeth's death purely on birth year and location (if that's valid) - Cambridgeshire 1875 Q2/3b/315, Leicestershire 1969 Q4/7a/22, Norfolk 1866 Q3/4b/42 & Nottinghamshire 1874 Q4/7b/2.
Let me know how you go.
Regards,
Mike
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Your deaths seem to be those of Elizabeth Bell. I'm not at all sure about her reverting to her maiden name. Richard Gray Baker might have changed his name to Bell for any number of reasons when he went to NZ.
What's the source, presumably in Oz/NZ for his birthplace being Earith?
Still struggling with censuses
Searching Cambs Archives online catalogue at http://calm.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/ArchiveCatalogue/SearchArchives.htm for Richard Grey Baker throws up a couple of hits - the 1830 map of Cambridge which I mentioned earlier, and a prosection for theft in 1823 from Richard Grey Baker, surveyor of Earith.
David
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David,
My apologies for the delay in responding.
I've spent a fair bit of time scouring the indexes (FamilySearch, FreeBMD, Ancestry, ...) since you last post trying to validate what may have happened to Richard Gray senior and Elizabeth but with little success. Despite exploring many options the only items of note I found were:
- Marriage of Richard Gray Baker to Elizabeth Williard - Sussex 1840 (Q1/7/389)
- Census 1851 for Richard G. Bell & Elizabeth - Stepney, Middlesex - birth 1793 Staffordshire (but v. difficult to read original image)
- Death of Richard Gray Baker - Stepney, Middlesex 1852 (Q4/1c/345)
I checked all Richard Bakers born Staffordshire 1790-1800 but found nothing definitiive.
If it's OK with you, I'd like to park this for now and focus on other branches of the family in Wales, Ireland and somewhere in England :-).
Thank you again very much for all the help and I hope it wont be too long before our paths cross again.
Regards,
Mike
PS: The reference to Earith came from an Ancestry public family tree - Moore's I believe - but focussed on Richard Gray junior's wife's family, the Bottrells.
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Hi David,
I hope this note finds you're well & still on-line with RootsChat. Many thanks again for your help in the past with this case.
After a 5-year break, I've now retired and have recently resurrected my genealogy research and have an update regarding Richard Gray BELL.
Recall that we believed that he was born Richard Gray BAKER & had adopted his mother's maiden name when he emigrated to New Zealand.
Well, I found "confirmation" of this in the form of an 1874 solicitor's advertisement "to his advantage" in an Auckland newspaper, Daily Southern Cross.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=DSC18741110.2.2.3&srpos=1&e=01-01-1874-31-12-1876--50-DSC-1----2richard+bell--
I was quite chuffed by this bit of luck and thought you'd like to see it. Also, energised by this discovery, I've since found :
- Baptism of Richard Gray Baker senior - Lincolnshire 17/01/1793 to Thomas & Rebecca Baker
http://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5510b4d9e93790332e890127?search_id=576a440bf493fd192d0002c5
- 1841 Census Richard Gray Senior, Elizabeth #2 & William with the Willards (Sussex, HO107, 1095/24, p10)
- Death of Elizabeth Baker in 1838 (Q3/7/229) & burial 22/07/1838 (Rusper, Sussex)
I have still to find Richard's burial details as I'm coming to the UK in August & thought I might visit the headstones. Also, I might try to find out what the probate was for Richard Gray Baker's estate. :-)
Best Regards,
Mike