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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: MerRhosyn on Tuesday 13 September 11 02:00 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help with the interpretation of a CR10 card?
On the front gives: No of identity certificate, name, rating, date and place of birth, nationality, nationality of father.
On the back gives: Three ship identification numbers with corresponding dates and the text "No photos. See RS1." Possibly "RSI."
What does this code mean?
If I look up the crew lists for these ships (some of which exist, I know), what sort of information would they tell me - name and the specific date range the sailor was aboard the ship?
Is there any way to correlate this CR10 card to a later CR2 card? The CR2 card has a "Dis A No," name, and ship identification numbers with corresponding dates.
Specifically - is there any database that links the CR10 "no of identity certificate" with the CR2 discharge number?
I am trying to determine if the CR10 and CR2 cards belong to my great grandfather James McDuff Robertson. There are some convincing arguments to be made in the case of each, although some inconsistencies that I'd like to shed more light on. A way to correlate "Jas Robertson" to "J McDuff" would be extremely useful.
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
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Is there any chance you could attach the individual cards showing front and back.
Regarding Crew Agreements rather than crew lists. A crew list was usually part of the ships logbook and was by and large a record of the crews conduct.
What you need to see is the Crew Agreement. I have attached a sample of what you may expect to find. the name of previous ship can be an aid as this can help confirm a link between CR10 and CR2 and Dis A number.
Logbooks and Crew Agreements are searchable via the ships official number. To put a name to an O/N see.
http://www.mercantilemarine.org/showthread.php?6377-Ship-Numbers&p=35569#post35569
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Seaweed -
Well, I had attached them for an instant. But I was concerned posting them perhaps violated the forum copyright rules. They have crown copyright notices attached, but were obtained via a third-party service. If I'm mistaken, I can attach them in a jiffy.
Thank you for the example of the crew agreement! There is a six year gap btw the end date on one card and the start date on the other - so this should, indeed, help rule in or out a connection between the two. That link is a goldmine too.
Many thanks!
CR10
123332 - 5.19
131312 - 9.19
135456 - 10.20
CR2
136791 - 26.10.26
9 other handwritten entries
Two stamps including from Alhama, Glasgow, 145260
146330 - 19.4.35
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Don't worry,
I take it that the date 26.10.06 is a typo and should read 26/10/1926
Is that correct?
If it is it may explain the RS1 RSI enigma.
Form CRS1 is, seamen discharged and immediately re-engaged on Articles for further service in the same ship.
So it could mean he served on NESTOR o/n 135456 for six years.
If it were me, the easiest way to prove or otherwise the CR10 and CR2 belonged to the same man is to look at the Crew Agreements covering the dates for NESTOR 135456 and METAGAMA O/N 136791.
You could then compare signature's, Dis A numbers DOB etc.
Problem is these documents are in Newfoundland! However Memorial University of Newfoundland have a first class research service and they are not overly expensive.
http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/searchcombinedcrews.php
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Yes, 1926, writing too early in the morning.
This is fabulous advice - I honestly didn't realize the crew agreements would be so thorough and contain age, address, etc. I thought I'd be lucky to get a name and date of service.
I have all sorts of complementary evidence for solving my problem (birth cert, childrens' birth certs w/ signatures, addresses for the 1920-1930 time period, etc.). One of the issues is that the CR10 year of birth is 11 years "off" - to the date. If the agreements show age that matches more closely with the real year of 1899, that will go a long way in helping me explain the inconsistency. I had Southampton search and looked myself at the National Archives, but it was the only the online search interface that enabled me to catch these candidates. I'm more confident the CR10 is my man...but if both belong to him, all the better!
Thank you so much - I will contact Newfoundland and see if they can help!
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Sorry if this was implied - do those Form CRS1s still exist?
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What would happen in the case of an AB seaman with appendicitis transferred to a hospital in Capetown?
Would his company in 1934 help him in any way?
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Sorry if this was implied - do those Form CRS1s still exist?
I doubt very much if a CRS1 for your man is available. Probably destroyed.
Please keep us up to speed on your research at Newfoundland.
I would be interested in the results.
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@Seaweed or any one else with experience...
Do the dates "135456 - 10.20" correspond to voyage start or termination dates?
I've been going back and forth with Newfoundland. They possess the Nestor agreements for 1920, but not for 1921. I can't get much except a form response. If the voyage terminated in 1920, then I'm happy to pay the $40 for that particular search. But if it's almost guaranteed it terminated in 1921, I'll pick another ship and date range.
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As far as I am aware the date refers to the termination of the voyage. But you can always get a rogue entry.
To be on the safe side choose another vessel and a mid year date.
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Do the dates "135456 - 10.20" correspond to voyage start or termination dates?
This date on the CR 10 is the date of engagement. However, I have found mistakes on these cards when checking crew agreements.
Regards
Hugh
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Thanks again for your advice. To follow up..
Got two agreements from Newfoundland today:
123332 - 5.19 (Tamaqua) - 10/5/1919 to 19/6/1919
131312 - 9.19 (Ascanius) - 20/9/1919 to 28/1/1920
Newfoundland held 1919 for both ships and were able to locate James Robertson on each voyage.
This James Robertson (from the CR10) is, in fact, my great grandfather. His address matches my marriage cert and he set sail on the Tamaqua the day after leaving the Royal Navy (correctly reporting the last ship I knew he sailed on). He's 22 years old on the first trip and 28 on the second trip ;D
Will probably mull over J McDuff's CR2 and pick a good year. This was a good start, though, as I've obtained a copy of his signature as well.