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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: jomcd967 on Wednesday 14 September 11 05:46 BST (UK)
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Hi I am hoping someone can help me find a marriage for Alexander Alexander & Mabel Wilhelmina Hill (Woodbry). They were married sometime between 1914 & 1921, probably in the New Norfolk area. I know Alexander died in 1934 and his age gives a DOB of around 1875. I know nothing else about him and hope that the marriage might have some family details. Any help would be hugely appreciated.
Regards,
Jo
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"..I know Alexander died in 1934 and his age gives a date of birth around 1875"
This sounds as though you do know more about him.
What do you have..a death notice in a paper..a death certificate? Can you give all information you have about him...children, death details..where, when, if there is a death certificate, who is the informant.
Where did he live, what occupation please.
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Hi Wivenhoe,
all that I have been able to find is a death/in memory notice in the Tassie papers. That's where I got his approx. date of birth. I don't know where or when he was born, (family say Scotland), when/if he came to Australia, when he married Mabel? I know they had a son Kenneth - my husband's ggrandfather. That and two voters registrations on Ancestry that show him living in New Norfolk as a labourer.
Thats it and I would love to know more. I would appreciate any help that you may be able to provide.
Thanks,
Jo :)
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Can you give the dates for the newspaper notices please.
His death certificate, Tas, 1934 would have space for age at marriage/s, children identified as male/female dead/alive but not named, years in Tasmania.
When and where did Kenneth marry?.
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Hi Wivenhoe,
The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954) Thursday 31 May 1934 p 1 Family Notices
The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954) Tuesday 31 May 1938 p 1 Family Notices
The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860 - 1954) Saturday 29 May 1937 p 1 Family Notices
Kenneth married in Sydney in 1941, I have his marriage certificate and it only gives Alexanders name.
Does that help?
I hope so, fingers crossed,
Regards,
Jo :)
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Hi Jo,
Some more information from the Mercury, 10 May 1948 in the "In Memorium" section -
KINGSHOTT-ALEXANDER. - Treasured memories of our dear mother and father, passed to higher life May 10, 1946. and May 30, 1934 We are lonely here without you, dears, And sadness marks the way,
For the old place is not the same Since you were called away.
Inserted by their loving children.
KINGSHOTT. - In loving memory of my dear mother, Mabel Kingshott, died May 10. 1946; also my dear father. Alex. Alexander, died May 30. 1934. Resting where no shadows fall,
In perfect peace they await us all.
Inserted by their loving daughter, Jean, son-in-law. Wave, and grandchildren, Roma. Ken. and Kaye: also sons. Don and Ken.
Further, Mabel W Kingshott was buried New Norfolk,13 May 1946 aged 51. Her birth place is listed as Sydney NSW. Alex Alexander buried 1 June 1934 at New Norfolk, Labourer, age given as 59. No birth place listed. Both interred at the old North Circle Public Cemetery.
Hope that gives you a few more leads...
Cheers,
Peter
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Thanks Peter,
Mabel hasn't been too hard but Alexander gives no clues as to who he was, where he came from? I am hoping that his marriage to Mabel would yield some facts. Would there be more information on his origins in a marriage or death certificate? I think I need to order one or the other. Which would be best do you think?
Regards, Jo
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Marriage certificate would be the way to go if it had all the details filled in correctly. It should give Alexanders birth place plus his parents names. The death certificate would give you his birth place, length of time in the commonwealth and probably the number of children he had...
If I get the chance I'll check the indexes at the library... if the marriage took place in a church you may be able to get a copy from TAHO for a fraction of the cost of a certificate. It will have exactly the same information...
Peter
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I think you were saying that you had not located a marriage certificate for Mabel and Alexander?
The certificate for Mabel's second marriage would have her parents names which might help to locate the first marriage to Alexander.
It would also give her birth place and age.
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I think that Jo already knows details of Mabel's birth and parents.
I don't see any evidence of a divorce from George HILL (have you found anything?). He appears to be alive and well and living in Tenterfield for some time and died in 1964.
Debra :)
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Thanks Guys,
It's Alexander that I don't know about - Mabel is fairly easy to track. 1st marriage in 1914 in Tenterfield (no divorce found by me either!), 2nd to Alexander sometime before Kenneth is born in New Norfolk in 1920, 3rd to John Kingshott in 1936/37 in New Norfolk. Six children, at least one to JK, probably 3/4 to Alexander and 1/2 to GH. I am hoping the marriage date to Alexander will clarify that.
Cheers,
Jo :)
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If you have not accounted for Mabel's first husband - George F W Hill, then there might not be a marriage with Alexander Alexander?
Can you give some details about the 1/2 children of this marriage...when, where.
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Hi Wivenhoe,
Other than Kenneth born in 1920, I don't know. That's why I was hoping someone could find a marriage date for Alexander and Mabel between 1914 & 1920/1, so I could order the certificate and work from there.
Thanks,
Jo :)
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Hi,
On the death notice for Alex Alexander it mentions he died May 30th 1934 in his 39th year so his birth year would be 1896 not 1875.Can`t find a headstone for him at New Norfolk but there is one for Mabel Kingshott.Not sure what information it would have on her headstone.Do you live in Tassie Jo so you can go check out Mabel`s headstone.It may have her children mentioned.
Johngirl
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Its actually 59 in the paper...looks a bit like a '3' rather than a '5'. His burial from the North Circle Cemetery book which I have says 59 too. I live in New Norfolk and I've been right through the cemetery and don't recall any Alexanders. I'm related to the Kingshotts and I don't recall a headstone for Mabel or John Jingshott either.
There are photos of headstones in the book to and none of the mentioned appear.
Kenneth Roy Alexander appears in service records for the Navy and a court martial in the army. He is given as being born 25 Dec 1920 at New Norfolk, religion Methodist. Mother is Mabel W Kingshott. Living in Montague St. Service date seems to be 1938.
If you do a birth search though there doesn't seem to be a Kenneth Alexander born that period....
Peter
Peter
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Hi Peter and Johngirl,
I thought it said 39 the first time I saw it too. I have one photo of Alexander and he looked much older, which made me go back and check. I also have one photo of three of Kenneth's siblings, each has a different surname - Hill, Alexander & Kingshott - written on the back!I have ordered Kenneth's service records from the NA (still waiting) but don't expect it will help with Alexander. As there is no record of a divorce from GH, maybe she and Alexander never married, which means she probably didn't marry JK either. Is there any chance someone can check if there is a marriage between Mabel Hill/Alexander to John Kingshott in 1936/37??
Thanks for your help,
Jo
PS. I'm in Melbourne Johngirl :)
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It looks as though Mabel was living in a "partnered relationship" with both Alex Alexander and John Kingshott rather than being married to them.
This is further evidenced by the one baptism I could find in the New Norfolk Methodist Church records - Baptised Feb 26th 1923, Born Dec 2 1922 - Name:Maise Jean Surname: Hill Alexander (Hill was indicated by an insertion arrow before Alexander) Parents: Alexander & Mabel W Hill, New Norfolk, Labourer.
So Jo it looks as if you best way forward is to obtain Alex's death certificate and hope it may give you the details you seek...
Peter
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Sorry for my mistake but it does look like his age was 39 when he passed on.Must need knew glasses. ;D
I did find a burial for a Mabel Kingshott at the New Norfolk Old Council Cemetery who I thought may have been the Mabel mentioned on this forum but as TasTyger has found that this Mabel never married John Kingshott then it can`t be her sorry. :-[
I`m in Tas ;D
Johngirl
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Hi,
As George Frederick William Hill remarried in 1928 quite legally Mabel and George must have been divorced.
This is the first time I have used roots chat, I hope that I haven't done anything incorrectly.
My family is related to George Hill.
Regards
Gwenda Spencer. Vic.
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Hi Gwenda,
I have been unable to find any record of a divorce for Mabel and George and as Mabel does not appear to have married either of her subsequent "partners " think that they never did divorce. Maybe George felt that as Mabel was now in Tassie that he was free to remarry without anyone knowing he wasn't divorced, certainly that was common at the time.
Regards, Jo :)
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Hi Jo,
I have recently connected with a family member of George Hill's brother, Walter and his wife Mabel. I will ask her what she has to say about the marriage and subsequent happenings and let you know when I hear back from her.
Regards
Gwenda
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Hi Jo,
My contacts had no idea that George had a previous wife, before their mother Elsie Irene Sloan, until about ten years ago. They have next to nothing.
Have to do some more searching and more emails.
Sorry,
Gwenda.
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mabel was my great aunt she was born 1894 in tenterfield,her parents were peter &agnes woodbry of muswellbrook.According to my searches she had two daughters with george Mary 1914 &Aileen elizabeth 1915 i have a photo of mabel with two young girls.Her funeral notice in the muswellbrook chronicle says she was survived by her husband four daughters and two sons
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Hi Dionne,
You are one up on me, as I don't have any photos of Mabel, I think somewhere I may have some of George. He is my first cousin twice removed. What I am trying to find out is:
(i) Did Mabel take Mary and Aileen with her when she moved to Tassie?
(ii) Was Mabel divorced from George and did she marry Alexander, and did she marry John Kingshott?
George married Elsie Irene Sloan in 1928 in Lithgow, NSW. I have this side of the family pretty well sorted out. Love to hear your views on the above.
Bye for now,
Gwenda
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hi gwenda, still searching i assume she did take her daughters with her,my aunt has told me that in those days alot of things were kept secret or weren't talked about haven't found anything on alex or john just her funeral notice that said she was survived by her husband whether that was true i dont know.looked up kenneth in army records it said he was born 1918 not 1920,will keep searching it has me intriged now
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Have been looking up old newspapers i have found no marriages for Mabel with either Alex or John in the death notice for Mabel John says his loving wife. The children Mary,Aileen Kenneth,Jean and Don all have the surname Alexander one more daughter Lorraine Kingshott.Mary married a G. Clark,Aileen married Colin Midson,Jean is Mrs Wilton,Donald married Eunice Lyall,Kenneth i already know who he married but nothing as yet on Lorraine.Not sure if Mary and Aileen were children from Mabel first marriage or whether Alex was their father or used Alex's surname.
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Have been looking up old newspapers i have found no marriages for Mabel with either Alex or John in the death notice for Mabel John says his loving wife. The children Mary,Aileen Kenneth,Jean and Don all have the surname Alexander one more daughter Lorraine Kingshott.Mary married a G. Clark,Aileen married Colin Midson,Jean is Mrs Wilton,Donald married Eunice Lyall,Kenneth i already know who he married but nothing as yet on Lorraine.Not sure if Mary and Aileen were children from Mabel first marriage or whether Alex was their father or used Alex's surname.
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Hi my name is Erin Frame and I Stumbled upon your conversation after I googled my grandmother.
My grandmother is Elsie "Lorraine" Frame (nee Kingshott)
Her parents are : Thomas John George Kingshott and Wilamena "Muriel" Kingshott (nee Woodbury)
My dad Nigel Frame said my grandmother (who died in 1995)'s mother Wilamena married/was in multiple relationships with many men (Unheard of for the time)
I met Aileen Midson (Elsie's Sister) when I was little she died in the early 2000's.
I also met her son my dads cousin Kevin Midson.
I know great Aunty Eunice but I never met Donald Alexander. (He died before I was born).
I also heard of Kenneth.
I have never heard of Mary or Jean. My dad only mentioned: Aileen, Don & Kenneth as Elsie's half siblings.
My grandmother was born on feb 14 1937 in Devonport, Tasmania.
She was a nurse and Aileen was said to be a "mother figure" because Wilamena died when Elsie was little.
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Hi Erin Elsie's mother is Mabel Wilhelmina Woodbry my great aunt if you look up her name under Mabel Kingshott on Trove you will see her funeral notices with her childrens names.Mary and Aileen are supposed to be children from her first marriage in 1914 i do have a picture of Mabel and two little girls, Kenneth, Donald and Jean to a Alex Alexander and then your grandmother to John.There is a picture in the newspaper on trove of Donald and Eunice on their wedding day if i can help in anyway just let me know.
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Who's your mum/dad that is her relative?
Do you have a copy of the picture of Mabel?
My email address: (*)
Do you have any family medical history?
I've been worried about medical stuff cos my grandmother died in 1995 at age 57 of acute myeloid leukemia (very young) and anything else.
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Mabel,s brother was my mothers father i do have the picture if you would like a copy the site has left a message and taken your email away as for medical history in the Woodbry family i don't know any as yet.
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Yes I would love a copy :)
If you find anything that would be great.
I noticed Mabel died at 50 too. Do you know anything about what she may have died from?
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Mabel was born 1894 which would have made her 52yrs at death i don't know why she died,are you on face book as this site took your email away
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Hi, Have just discovered this chat and am very pleased I did. I am Elsie Lorraine Kingshotts daughter. Mum married. Ian Hamish Frame.
I have 4 brothers.