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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Montgomeryshire => Topic started by: Raido on Friday 16 September 11 16:55 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I recently became aware that Owen Evans is one of my great grandfathers. On Welsh Biography Online it lists him as being related (through his mother) to the Welsh poet Ann Griffths.
http://www.anngriffiths.cardiff.ac.uk/
EVANS , OWEN ( 1829 - 1920 ), Congregational minister and author ; b. 19 Nov. 1829 in Pen-y-bont-fawr, Mont. He hailed from a deeply religious family — on his mother's side he was related to the hymnist, Ann Griffiths (q.v.) .
http://wbo.llgc.org.uk/en/s-EVAN-OWE-1829.html?query=owen+evans&field=name
The first link below includes reference to Ann's siblings, and the second link includes detailed information about her family.
http://wbo.llgc.org.uk/en/s-GRIF-ANN-1776.html
http://www.anngriffiths.cardiff.ac.uk/biography.html
I have no access to parish records and I wondered if anyone could help me to establish the direct link between the two. I'm assuming, it's most likely that Owen is related to her through one of Ann's siblings as Ann's only child died a few months after birth.
Through help from others here, I think I've found Owen Evan's parish birth records. It shows William Evans and Elizabeth Evans crhristening Owen Evans in
LLANFYLLIN,MONTGOMERY,WALES in 1829.
I guess the first thing I need to discover is the surname of Owen's mother. I believe there may be a clue in the following record from the 1841 census. Owen was born in PenybontFawr, so his address and the age of his parents are included below. The clue I think, is that someone called Edward Thomas (born 1826 Montgomeryshire) is also living at the address which is Ann Griffiths original surname
Interestingly, if you look at the 1881 census record of Owen's son William Henry Evans, it lists a a Grace Morgan living in that household as a 'sister in law'. This is probably irrelevant but one should note that Morgan was the surname of Ann Griffiths grandmother on her fathers side as is clear below.
Marriage of Evan Thomas and Elizabeth Morgan (the parents of Ann’s father)
http://www.anngriffiths.cardiff.ac.uk/biography.html
I know William Henry Evans is Owen's son because Helana Blodwen (misspelled on the transcript), also listed in the census is my great grandmother.
Any help greatly appreciated.
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Was wondering if it might be better to move this to the Wales forum?
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Hello Raido :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
I will request that this is moved to Montgomeryshire
Kind Regards
Morgan
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If you don't receive any info from this Posting, I suggest that you write to E Wyn James at Cardiff University, as he may know the connection between the 2 families.
Modified: here is a list of publications, which include Penybontfawr Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials:
http://home.freeuk.net/montgensoc/pages/pubns.htm
Baptism of Owen Evans at Bethania Congregational Or Independent, Pennant Near Llanfyllin, Montgomery on 22nd November 1829. However marriages would have been recorded in the Church records. I've seen a marriage of William Evans and Elizabeth James in Llanfihangel y Pennant on 4th July 1829, but this was an unofficial transcript so would need verification.
Best wishes
Morgan
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Hi,
Thank you for your help. I stumbled upon a family tree someone is trying to construct online related to this. At first glance I can't see anyone related to Ann's siblings who would fit.
http://www.btinternet.com/~lyndon11/anngriffiths/index.html
I'm beginning to feel that the link is through one of Ann's parents. Perhaps a sibling of one of them.
Might this be them?
groom: William Evans
brides: Elizabeth Morris Or Williams
date: 19 Sep 1828
Llandegai,Caernarvon,Wales
If it was Elizabeth Morris her parents might be Thomas Morris and Mary Jones. Thomas Morris being he son of Ann's sister Elizabeth Thomas. The location of the marriage is odd though I admit.
Actually there's another birth record that might be her under the name James.
A girl called Elizabeth James born in the district of Llanfyllin and civil parish of Llangyniew 1811.
Oh actually that's according to the 1841 census, thus it's probably not her.
17 November 1798
Edward, Ann’s brother, marries Elizabeth Savage in Llangynyw parish church, with Ann as one of the official witnesses. Elizabeth comes to live with her husband at Dolwar Fach.
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Hello :)
I received this info from a kind Rootschatter:
"Hi,
I have now been through my PR and have found some possibilities:
William Evans bachelor married Elizabeth EVANS spinster at Pennant Melangell Church
4 July 1829 witnesses were Edward Evans and Sarah Jones
Elizabeth Evans baptised 9 Nov 1808 at Pennant Melangell
Parents Thomas & Elizabeth Evans
Siblings of Elizabeth;
Robert 1806
Edward 1804
David 1803"
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Hi thanks for that. I will see if it matches the trees.
There was another related point which I was looking for an answer for, one which actually led me to to do all this digging in the first place.
My aim was to try and find which relatives of mine went to Patagonia, Argentina. My great grandmother on my mothers side (on the Evans side) would go on to my mother about it when my mother was young.
I'm wondering if it might be Owen Evans brother- Thomas Evans. He was also a preacher and was trained at Bala around the same time that the whole nationalism thing kicked off.
The reason I think he might have gone to Argentina is two fold. Firstly have a look at his biography. it says:
He was considered a diligent pastor and a preacher with a kindly and homely style; he also worked hard for the foreign missions
http://yba.llgc.org.uk/en/s-EVAN-THO-1844.html
He was born in 1844 and like his brother in Montgomeryshire.
http://surman.english.qmul.ac.uk/resultDisplay.php?dbid=08631
Is there any chance the Thomas Evans in this list might be him? It has his middle name as Pennant which is the place they all came from.
http://www.bisa.btinternet.co.uk/welsh.htm
Sorry if this has digressed a bit. Also any ideas where it would be good to look for information on this? Foreign missions etc?
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The Pennant name indicates that it is a possibility but the biography lists where Thomas was in 1860s, e.g. "He was at Bala Independent College , 1865-8," etc
I assume you are looking for family members who went to live in Patagonia?
Modified: Thomas Pennant Evans, age 29, was a member of the Crew of Mimosa, which took emigrants to Patagonia in 1865
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Hi guys,
Thanks for all the help. I think I've stumbled upon a tantilising clue as to Owen's relationship with Ann.
Search for "Owen Evans" in the document below. Sorry but it won't let me copy and paste the text into this post.
It basically says she went to a sermon given by Benjamin Jones and was invited by a woman who became Owen Evan's grandmother (this would make sense in a generational context)
I'd hazard a guess the woman who invited Ann was probably her Aunt. It's a bit frustrating that the document doesn't actually tell us what this woman's relationship to Ann is. However it does tell us that this woman was the mother of Owen's mother.
If we're certain Owen's mother was Elizabeth then maybe this woman was the wife of Thomas Evans, who is Elizabeth below/
Elizabeth Evans baptised 9 Nov 1808 at Pennant Melangell
Parents Thomas & Elizabeth Evans
Siblings of Elizabeth;
Robert 1806
Edward 1804
David 1803"
What are the chances of being able to track down Elizabeth Evans' maiden name? The other odd thing is why this woman is described as an 'old friend' not a relation...
http://web.mac.com/quintapress/PDF_Books/Anne_Griffiths.pdf
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If you don't receive any info from this Posting, I suggest that you write to E Wyn James at Cardiff University, as he may know the connection between the 2 families.
Did you contact E Wyn James at Cardiff University? He is an expert on the Welsh hymn writers and very helpful. He may be able to recommend published articles.
The reference you found to "An old friend" inviting Ann is interesting. Perhaps she married a family member, i.e. Thomas Evans
Best wishes
Morgan
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If you don't receive any info from this Posting, I suggest that you write to E Wyn James at Cardiff University, as he may know the connection between the 2 families.
Did you contact E Wyn James at Cardiff University? He is an expert on the Welsh hymn writers and very helpful. He may be able to recommend published articles.
The reference you found to "An old friend" inviting Ann is interesting. Perhaps she married a family member, i.e. Thomas Evans
Best wishes
Morgan
Hi,
Many apologies that I forgot to get back to you on this thread. You were a great help. I did contact Wyn James and he gave me lots of details about the family. The poets James T Jones, John Gwilym Jones and Aled Gwyn (all brothers, the first two being former archdruids) are related to Owen Evans through his brother David.
The link between Ann Griffiths (nee Thomas) and Elizabeth Evans is purported to be through Elizabeth's mother Ann Davies (who is given as a cousin), however, it's quite difficult to prove and the likelihood is they may have been second cousins.
There's also a book called Y Tri Hyn which gives a lot of background to the family. It also contains pictures of the three ministers and their mother Elizabeth.
There's several other riddles that the book throws up, for e.g. Elizabeth's husband William Evans' father John married a Mary Price but we have no idea who her father was. The story goes that her mother Ellen Jones died after giving birth so Mary was taken to the Rhiwlas Estate to live.
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Parish records you need to look at are Llanfihangel yng ngwynfa for Ann and her family and Pennant (melangell) the parish that Penybontfawr is in. A church was erected in Penybontfawr c1850/1860.
Parishes near by are Hirnant and Llangynog and to Llanfihangel Llangyniew and Meifod are adjacent
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Unsure but I think the Rhiwlas estate was based at Llangedwyn
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Thomas Evans lived in Amlwch died 1922 where he had been minister for over 45 years also has an entry in Dictionary of Welsh Biography as his other brother has an entry 1842-1914
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Any clues in the published biography of the three brothers published Liverpool 1931 by Hugh Evans a'i feibion written by R O Evans called "Y tri hyn: sef y Parchedigion Owen Evans Llundain, David Evans Caerfyrddin Thomas Evans Amlwch"
One if not more of these three were born at the Ffactri Penybontfawr
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David Evans Owen's brother died 1914 had a son Rev RO Evans minister at Neath at time of his father's death. Is he the author of the biography?
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Can I just apologise that I haven't responded to your points yet. I appreciate your help, very interesting. My health hasn't been great lately sadly so I had to take some time away from family history research.