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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: akersbyway on Sunday 18 September 11 10:53 BST (UK)
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Could anyone please tell me whether it was "usual" for a family to change their surname. My ancestor William Byway born 1800 had (amongst others) 2 sons William summers byway and Henry Byway. What is odd is that Henry at some point seems to take his motherS surname and becomes Henry Summers and his children become e.g. William Henry byway summers.
Is there any way to identify if this was formally changed? Or indeed any other way I can find out why they took Summers as the main surname???
Many thanks fir any help!
Alex
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It would be helpfull to give a few dates,when did his parents marry,or did they not,
St George Hulme
Charles Byway,
son of William Byway and Elizabeth ,formerly Summers,
born the 24 th of June 1838,
baptism 8 Th of July 1838,
abode Hulme Barracks,
father a trumpeter,in the 3rd dragoons guards
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Just looking around at the moment,
St Georges Hulme,
William Somers son of William and Sarah,
born 17 th of December 1837,
baptism 31st of December,
abode back Owen Street,Hulme
father a private soldier,
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is this the couple who marry in Newcastle please ,
William Byway and Elizabeth Summer,
27 th of November 1821
ST Andrews Newcastle upon Tyne,
family search org
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Thank you, yes William byway and Elizabeth summers married in Newcastle/Northumberland 1821. He was a trumpeter in dragoon guards. Charles byway fits, I havea death record for him- Restalrig, mid lothian, died whilst William stationed at piers I'll barracks. William summers byway b1827 Henry byway b 1829 in scotland and married an Anne tyldesly it's his family and offspring that seem to become surname Summers and not Byway??
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Yes I am just looking at them now ,Henry is Byway in census and his marriage, but his sons marriage he is stated as Byway Summers, I do wonder if the vicar just wrote it the wrong way round,and it stuck,
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Oh! Do you think it could be something as simple as that? that's a shame!! I was hoping for some dark secret lurking somewhere!! ;
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Yes I am just looking at them now ,Henry is Byway in census and his marriage, but his sons marriage he is stated as Byway Summers, I do wonder if the vicar just wrote it the wrong way round,and it stuck,
Do you have an image of the byway Summers record at all?
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St George Tyldesley Lancashire,
Henry Byway,Bookseller batchelor,of Atherton,aged 25,
Ann Tildsley,weaver spinster of Sales Lane,aged 25,
Grooms father William Bywater,deceased,
brides father George Tildsley,weaver,
witness by
Peter Hampson,and Sarah Hancock,
married by banns,
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St Chrysostom,Rusholme Lancashire,
William Henry Byway Summers,full age,batchelor ,warehouseman of 2 Brampton st Ardwick,
Ledward of full age ,skirt maker,spinster of 19 Febuary Street,
grooms father Henry Byway Summers, deceased mercantile clerk
brides father,James Ledward,farm labourer deceased,
witness Wm R Dobson and Emily Chadwick
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Thank you Radcliff.
Can I ask, is it possible to view these records online? I have looked at familysearch.org but unable to view the record? I have an ancestry subscription and can't find the detailed info!
Thanks for your help Radcliff!
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Try lots of different free sites and compare what you find I use family search ,free bmd ,lancashire opc ,ancestry any thing I can ,because some times you find different records on different sites,
one thing I did think was did your Bywater have a small criminal record or doing a runner from an earlier marriage,no offence ,meant
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Ah! Ok, thanks I will try that - lancashire opc is 1 I haven't used yet!
oh, interesting, I hadn't thought of that! You migt be right, certainly not something I had considered, no offence taken! Would be very interesting to find something like that out!
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probate for William Henry Bywater Summers,
1906 ,of 9 Thompson Grove ,Ardwick Manchester,
probate granted to Emma Summers widow,
death recorded Chorlton ,December 1906,aged 51,
the only birth around the estimated age is William Summers Manchester ,September 1855,
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William Sumner Byway marriage Manchester,J/F/M 1846 but i cant work out the spouse,
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William Sumner Byway marriage Manchester,J/F/M 1846 but i cant work out the spouse,
It appears from www.lancashirebmd.org.uk that the spouse is Sarah Bingham; marriage at St John, Manchester.
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I just found a some one looking for all the same info on the Manchester and salford forum with copies of certificates. Could they be related?
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Yes, that's me too! :)
I was most interested in the switching of surnames between Byway and Summers.
On reflection, I could/should have posted the question on there too!
I have alot of the information for my direct ancestors already, but getting things like images of parish records for burials and marriages has been a struggle for me. And I like to keep the images where possible.
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Lets narrow down when the name change occured,
1861 still Henry Byway,
1871 Henry Sumner,
he has been in Yorkshire as he has two six year old sons born Bradford,
,so we need to look in Yorkshire for their births,to see if they are registered as Byway or Summer,
death Henry Byway Summers Chorlton December 1875
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So I think he had twins in around 1864/5 Albert and Malcolm./ I believe them to be registered as Byway...Malcolm and Albert Summers Byway.
So is it looking that at somepoint between their birth and 1871 the name is changed??
Confused!
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Their baptismis at Girlington St Philip
Malcolm and Albert born September the 13 th 1864,
baptism,12 th of Feb 1865,
father Henry Summers and Ann
address,92 Girlington Road
father a scripture reader,
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No I am not confused , so its narrowed again
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Ah! Born Summers then....
It's a little odd the time between birth and baptism isn't it?
Most of the records I have come across from this period, the baptism seems to happen fairly quickly after birth - or do I have that wrong?
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Their baptismis at Girlington St Philip
Malcolm and Albert born September the 13 th 1864,
baptism,12 th of Feb 1865,
father Henry Summers and Ann
address,92 Girlington Road
father a scripture reader,
OK, so we're looking at a 3yr period where he potentially changed the name.....
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Yes and the change in occupation,
clerk to scripture reader ,
have you confirmed their births as Byway ,
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Yes, well not as Byway...
Malcolm Byway Summers died Jan 1904 Chorlton and Albert Byway Summers d. 1920 in Chorlton.
Both married as Summers too - Malcolm to Ada Cork and Albert to Mary Shiels (I think)
Could changing the name be a religious thing I wonder?
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Malcolm dies and marries with the name Byway Summers,
thats what I was thinking religion
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Hmm, perhaps I'll never know for sure! :(
One thing I haven't been able to find is Henry's wife Ann's Death record - If you can find anything on that, that would be great!
Alex
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As Malcolm dies Chorlton,1904 and William Henry Byway also Chorlton 1906,
I would look very closely in this area for Ann their mother ,she is still in Manchester in 1901,
do you have her in the 1911 census,sorry I cant look that one up for you .
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No nothing on the 1911 census as yet! To be honest I'm struggling with the 1911, can't seem to finds anyonen I would expect on ancestry!
Will keep trying though!
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I think and I quote think, your Ann Summers possibly dies Chorlton,September 1913,or July 1913 depending on which free index you are lookin at,
aged 83, worth purchasing her death certificate,
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thank you! :)
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Malcolm and Albert ,both registered as Summers,
Bradford ,September 1864,
free bmd ,
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Thanks! I've (hopefully) emailed the vicar at St Philips, Girlington in Bradford and asked if she can provide any information on them from any additional church records they might have. Not holding up much hope, but you never know!
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fingers crossed ,you never know,as he lived just around the corner in Girlington road not far from the church he may have been connected to St Philips,
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Hi, I have just seen your posts on the byway /Summers surname . My great grandfather was Albert Byway Summers , married to Mary Shiel, as you mentioned. I always assumed Byway was his second name not his surname. My mother and her cousin , his grandchildren, also thought that was the case. I would be very interested in anything you have found out. :)
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Ann Summers did live and die in Manchester. My grandmother ( born 1892)would call on her to help her with her boots..she lived quite close to her, if I remember correctly what I was told .