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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: JMelchiors on Monday 19 September 11 01:52 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm looking for record of a birth or baptism of Robert Fields Linthwaite Toder in Scotland, ~1814. Father William, mother unknown (possibly Mary?). He also had an older sister named Mary Linthwaite Toder, born ~1809, but I'm not sure if she was born in Scotland or England. If anyone knows anything about either of them, please let me know! Thanks!
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Do you have him on any census records?
Where in Scotland was he born?
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hi all :)
had a look at this earlier
think the family ended up in maryland USA(around 1821 ?)
there is a marriage 5th oct. 1806 wisbech st peter cambridge england
william toder and mary fields(both are noted as widowed)(IGI beta search)
william born about 1774(?)
there is a naturalization record for a william L toder age 47 in maryland
some trees on the mundia website
william linthwait toder and ann appleton marriage 19th sept. 1795 st. mary nottingham england :-\
ev
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Sancti, I can't find any record of him at all, other than his grave in Baltimore, which says that he was born "1814, Scotland". So I don't even know if that is accurate. But I've done a lot of searching and can't find him anywhere else.
Ev, I've found the information that you mentioned already. (I'm descended from the American branch of the family.) The information about Mary Fields is a little ambiguous though, so I'm trying to find the birth records of the children to see if she is listed as the mother.
What's the mundia website?
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When did he die in Baltimore?
Does the gravestone give his full name?
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There is no gravestone. Just an unmarked grave. per http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=13501234. Another site, http://pipl.com/detailed/?p=PFAgVj0ndjN0Jz48Tj48Rj5Sb2JlcnQ8L0Y-PEw-VG9kZXI8L0w-PC9OPjxBPjxUPkJhbHRpbW9yZSBjaXR5PC9UPjxBPk1EPC9BPjxDPlVTPC9DPjwvQT48L1A-&i=1908735971 , doesn't mention Scotland. Presumably the name and dates come from the cemetery records - it would be good to see exactly what the cemetery says.
What disturbs me about the write up - "With him would have been his father William Linthwaite, 42, and his sister Mary, 12, among others" - is the use of "would have been" which to me implies that the statement is an assumption, rather than the more emphatic "With him were his father ...." which comes as a result of seeing a passenger list.
Even more worrying is the write up for Mary Linthwaite Toder on the same site " Mary J Toder is believed to be one of the passengers who sailed aboard the ship 'Pallas' arriving in Baltimore harbor during the quarter ending September 30, 1821. Sailing with her would have been William Linthwaite Toder,42, and his children Robert F L, 9, and Mary Toder, 12, among others" which seems to make it plain that she hasn't been found on a passenger list. Did William emigrate alone to be followed by his wife and family?
See also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,392957.new.html#new
David
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Sancti, Robert died 8 Apr 1853 in Baltimore, according to the Find-a-Grave website. I'm searching for the original cemetery records to find more information. There is no gravestone, but the memorial on the website lists his full name as Robert Fields Linthwaite Tudor (I think a lot of the Toder family changed their name to Tudor after they emigrated. Or the recordkeepers just recorded it that way.)
David, I don't think Mary J Toder and Mary Linthwaite Toder are the same person, and there may have even been another Mary Toder who was married in 1822. I get the impression that there were other family members on board the ship, maybe cousins, etc, so there may have been several Mary Toders. I've requested a copy of the passenger list, so I'll let you know when I have more information. In the meantime, I'll try to find the records for Baltimore Cemetery and see what they show that isn't on Find-a-grave. It's also possible that Robert and Mary were born in England, not Scotland, but I haven't had any luck searching England records either. I'll let you know when I have more information.
Thanks to both of you for your help!
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Ancestry.com has a database Baltimore Passenger Lists 1820-1948, but I don't have a worldwide subscription. Using trial and error I've deduced the following:
Arrived Baltimore Oct 1821
Mary Tudor born 1776
William C Tudor born 1779
Mary Tudor born 1784
Thomas Tudor born 1806
Mary Tudor born 1809
Robert Tudor born 1815
Looks suspiciously like your Toder family with a couple of extras. If William C is actually William L then it seems as though his wife Mary was with him
David
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Yup, that looks like them! That's great! So they arrived in October, not September. Maybe that's how long it took to get from PEI to Baltimore. The older Mary is probably William's sister, who was born in 1776, and the younger one is maybe his wife. I don't know who Thomas is - I'll have to look into that. Thanks!
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The problem is that when I put in Pallas as the name of the vessel it's a nil return, indicating that they didn't arrive on that ship.
If you have a US Ancestry subscription you should be able to get full details - if not your local library may have a library subscription
David
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That's what I was thinking too - maybe they got the name of the ship wrong. If I don't have any luck with my library request, I'm definitely going to subscribe to ancestry.com in the next week or so. Thanks for the help!
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Hi, I've looked at the image & it's definately William L.Tudor. They are onboard the schooner "Ardent" which sailed from St.Andrews. All the passengers on the list are noted as English, but I think that might have applied to the Scots as well!
William's occupation's a manufacturer. they are listed in this order;
William 42, Mary 37, Thomas 15, Mary 12, Robert 6, Mary 45.
Hope this helps,
flst
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Wonderful! I knew there had to be something wrong with the info I had - wrong ship! Thank you so much!
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I am Baltimore born and raised for 15 years. I have spent many hours at Pratt library and in Baltimore cemetery where in plot C228 14 of our relatives are buried in a 4 person grave. I have their names and date of burial.
hope thins inspires some conversation. Look forward to it
Baltimoregirl. 1/14/2012
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Wow, that's great! Did you get access to the burial records? I'd definitely be interested in your information if you're willing to share! I've come across quite a few instances of relatives being buried in that unmarked plot, but I haven't been able to find any official documentation.
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Hi and thanks for your reply. I'll be glad to share the burial record index card information with you. You will see the card list a female as Mrs Tudor and that is why it says Mrs Tudor in Find A Grave (FAG), and also that there is a Mary J listed among the interred.
Tomorrow I will scan the the card that lists who is buried in C228 and the date along with a diagram which shows how the bodies are distributed in the plot. Look over the names and let me know whose name you recognize and what you know about them. In return I'll tell you who I know and how they fit into the family tree. Some names I feel confident about, some I have an idea and some have no idea of who they are. I'd love any feedback as some of my assumptions might be incorrect.
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That would be great. Thanks!
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i may have to send in several posts. some files are too large ~ will need to resize
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#2
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Thanks! Give me some time to go over them and compare them to my notes, and I'll try to get back to you in the next couple days. :)
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Looking through my notes and found copies from 'departed this life death notices from the Baltimore Sun 1851-1853'.
Tuder Robert F L, 38, on the 16th Henry Co Tenn + Anson Co NC
copy ~ 28 Apr 53.
Below is the link to his FAG site and although the day dates are off a little it could be because communication was slow in 1853. Thoughts.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSvcid=10111&GRid=13501234&
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Ok, here's what I know about the people listed on that burial card. If you know anything additional, please share! :)
1. Wm. Toder (10-8-58) is William Linthwaite Toder, born ~1774 in Nottinghamshire, England; emigrated to the US aboard the Ardent in 1821; died 10-6-1858.
2. William Tudor (11-11-91) is William Linthwaite Tudor, the son of #1 above; born 10-26-1822 in Baltimore (although this is unconfirmed - I haven't gotten a birth cert yet); died 11-9-1891.
3. R. F. L. Toder (4-11-53) is Robert Fields Linthwaite Toder, the son of #1 above; born ~1814 in the UK, emigrated with his family in 1821; died 4-8-1853.
4. Chas. H. Toder (child) (8-5-58) is Charles H. Toder, the son of #3 above.
5. Elizabeth Ann Tudor (4-25-75) is Elizabeth Ann Miller Tudor, wife of #2 above; born ~1821 in Baltimore; died 4-23-1875.
6. Thomas Tudor (4-11-77) is Thomas C Tudor, the son of #2 and #5 above; born ~1841, died 4-9-1877.
7. Arthur J Tudor (child) (10-25-93) is the grandson of #2 and #5 above, by their son Joseph Henry Tudor (1851-1900) and Annie Elizabeth Denbow Tudor (1851-1915).
8. William L Tudor (7-21-91) is also the grandson of #2 and #5 above, by their son Joseph Henry Tudor (1851-1900) and Annie Elizabeth Denbow (1851-1915).
I don't know anything about Emma, Mary J, Joseph, or George Linthicum. James Douglas is probably related to Margaret Tudor Douglas, the daughter of #2 and #5 above. And there's no way of telling who "Mrs" Tudor was, without a first name or more details.
I am descended from Joseph Henry Tudor and Annie Elizabeth Denbow, mentioned above, through their daughter, Sarah Virginia Tudor (1893-1964). How are you related to this clan, BaltimoreGirl? Thanks again for sending these to me!!
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Re: Baltimore Cemetery, C228
Read with interest what you know about relatives in C228. We agree on most but have a few differences.
1) Wm. Toder (1858) arrived on ship Pallas ~ I have copy of ships and
passengers arriving in Baltimore harbor covering the year 1821.
2) RFL Toder ~ have copy of 1850 census where he states he was born
In Scotland.
3) William Tudor (1891) ~~ I would be interested in copy of birth certificate.
How are you getting it?
4) Emma ~ I know nothing
5) Mary J ~ I thought she might be one of the Mary's who arrived w/Wm in
1821 but have no proof at all.
6) George Linthicum ~ I know nothing although his name sounds familiar,
Maybe just from looking at all the Tudor info for so long, who knows.
7) Joseph ~ I have a very, very poor copy of a death certificate for a
Joseph Tudor Jr with date of death 6/30/1877, and he was only months
old. I am assuming because of dates and name he might be the son of
Joseph Henry and Annie Elizabeth Denbow Tudor. He would have been
skipped all census years. I also have the index card for the plot of Joseph
Henry and Annie Elizabeth. It is a 4 person plot showing 5 people (Joseph,
Annie and 3 of their children). There is a note made that says
Tudor, Joseph July 2, 1877
Lot 228 Area C Grave 2w Reop
Age 6 months
What does all that mean? Was he buried in C228 and moved to D53?
Thoughts??
Now, how am I related? Sarah Virginia (Aunt Vergie) had an older named Elmer Alphonsus Tuder ( yes er). It is said he had a dispute with other Tudors and changed spelling because of that. Elmer, his wife and 2 daughters kept the er spelling. My father and his brother went back to or.
I have right here in front of me a picture of the marker for Virginia S Arnett and one for her daughter Loretta Pittinger, both in Moreland Memorial Park, Baltimore.
Tell me what I have right/wrong and any additions you have
Sarah Virginia (Aunt Virgie) Tudor b: 24 Feb 1893 in Baltimore, MD, USA d: 23 Sep 1964 in Baltimore, MD, USA
+Mr Pittinger
......Virginia Pittinger ..........................................................................
+ Horst Schroder
Suzanna Schroeder
Virginia Ann Schroeder
Horst Schroeder, Jr
.................................................................... 8 .................................................................... 8 .................................................................... 8
.......Fredenand Pittinger b: 1913 d: 1954
......Albert J Pittinger b: 1915
......Loretta V Pittinger b: 27 Jul 1917 in Baltimore, MD, USA d: 14 May
1936 in Baltimore, MD, USA
....... *2nd Husband of Sarah Virginia (Aunt Virgie) Tudor:
+Samuel M Arnett
Am I allowed to ask if you live in Baltimore?
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Forgot James L Douglass ~ I have always seen it spelled with the ss on the end.
Anyway, he is the son of Margaret Ann Tudor (daughter or William Linthwaite and Elizabeth Ann Miller Tudor) and James H Douglass.
Agree on Mrs Tudor
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Since this is getting a little off-topic, I'll send you a private message with more info. :)
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Much to say but do not know how to send a private message. Can you help?
Laptop battery gone and iPad almost out so this may have to wait till tomorrow.
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Click on my name to the right here, then scroll down and click on "send this rootschatter a personal message."
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But you should be able to just reply to my message. Does that not work??
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Hello
I am researching my mothers side of the family - Linthwaite Toder. If you would like information relating to that part of the family tree in Newark England which is where the family originated I believe then please get in touch.
Apologies if this message is way out of date.
Cheers
John
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Be happy to get any info you have. Family tree in not handy but I’ll compare when I get you info. Thanks.
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Hi again. Only just joined this site so not sure how it all works yet. So the Linthwaite Toders:
The middle name of Linthwaite originated I believe around 1770 when Elizabeth Linthwaite married a Thomas Toder. Because Thomas Toder was a bankrupt I suspect that there was some deal done whereby - I am guessing that she was quite wealthy and agreed to marry Thomas and get him out of hock on condition that any future children would have the middle name of Linthwaite. I have only followed my direct line but they had 7 children, one of them being Robert Linthwaite, babtised 11/10/1781 at Newark Notts. One of Roberts children was named William Linthwaite It was at this point that the name changed to 'Tudor' either by the sensus recorder hearing the name wrong or just writing it down wrong, or by design. William was an artist and lace designer. One of Williams children was Henry Linthwaite born 12/07/1849 - commercial clerk to a lithographic printer. In 1881 he was living at 44 Raleigh Street, Basford, Nottingham. Henry appears to be the last Linthwaite as his son was named William Henry Tudor born 1887 - I think!
They all lived around the Nottingham and Newark area.
Hope this is of some interest.
Regards
John
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Hi again. Only just joined this site so not sure how it all works yet. This is what I have relating to the Linthwaite Toders:
The middle name of Linthwaite originated I believe around 1770 when Elizabeth Linthwaite married a Thomas Toder. Because Thomas Toder was a bankrupt I suspect that there was some deal done whereby - I am guessing that she was quite wealthy and agreed to marry Thomas and get him out of hock on condition that any future children would have the middle name of Linthwaite, or they used the name out of respect or rememberance I have only followed my direct line but they had 7 children, one of them being Robert Linthwaite, babtised 11/10/1781 at Newark Notts. One of Roberts children was named William Linthwaite It was at this point that the name changed to 'Tudor' either by the sensus recorder hearing the name wrong or just writing it down wrong, or by design. William was an artist and lace designer. One of Williams children was Henry Linthwaite born 12/07/1849 - commercial clerk to a lithographic printer. In 1881 he was living at 44 Raleigh Street, Basford, Nottingham. Henry appears to be the last Linthwaite as his son was named William Henry Tudor born 1887 - I think!
They all lived around the Nottingham and Newark area.
Hope this is of some interest.
I have posted this message to Baltimore girl as well so hope I am not just duplicating things!
Regards
John
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Hello
My ancestors were the Linthwaite toders. They lived and died around Farndon near Newark, Notts.
1700 - 1800.
The Toder name later became corrupted to Tudor round about 1850.
Good luck
John