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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: Mowsehowse on Monday 19 September 11 09:21 BST (UK)
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Is there anyone out there who has any interest in the Nowells of Brixham, who also migrated to Ramsgate, Tenby and Hull?
In particular has anyone done any work on the conundrum of the numerous Nicholas' who pop up in every branch?
I have done quite a lot, but it would be useful to compare notes.
:)
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Hi I am searching for John William Nowell from Brixham Devon born about 1809. He married Charlotte Thompson 29 Nov 1830 in Dover, Kent she was born about 1810 Brixham but I havent been able to locate both of their baptisms. 4 of their children I believe were born in Ireland John and Charlotte also lived in Ramsgate. John was a fisherman- any connections? I havent come across any Nicholas yet.
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According to the IGI, Charlotte THOMPSON was baptised at Brixham 24 Aug 1809, dau of Thomas & Hannah.
The IGI also has several baptisms which 'may' be relevant as they took place in Brixham - one that 'could' be yours is a William NOWELL son of John & Temperance baptised 10 Mar 1808.
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Hi, I am sorry, I have not come across this connection as yet.
I will ask someone who is a Nowell descendant if she can help.
I expect you have looked at family search? I am betting this must be one of the children??
Hannah Tomson Nowell - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Christening: 25 MAR 1852 Ramsgate, Kent, England
good luck............
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Many thanks for the information. Hannah is one of their children.
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And you found them on the 1851 Census at Clover Hill in Ramsgate?
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Yes in 1851 they were both at Clover Hill
1861 John was onboard 'Fame' Vessel and Charlotte was at 7 Waterloo Place, Ramsgate
1871 they were both at 31 Haldies St, Ramsgate
1881 Charlotte is a Widow living at 30 Brunswick Street
she died 10 Feb 1894 at 37 Brunswick Street.
If Charlottes parents are Thomas Thompson and Hannah Bodley they married 8 Oct 1797 in Brixham and it looks like they had 6 children.
Is there more than one family of Nowell's from Brixham as there seems to be a lot of them. Are they all connected in some way?
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So probably this is the registration of death: John William Nowell age 68 Reg Jun 1/4 1876 at Thanet [ref: 2a 482 ]
I don't know why the birth / baptism doesn't show up on findmypast and familysearch.
It was a very big family - the first connection to our family that I found is a Nicholas Nowell bap.1718, then 4 generations later 2 sisters in our family both married a Nicholas Nowell, (though for years I thought the one had married her sister's widower!)
I am sure they all connect up somewhere, but my primary interest is via the Rowse sisters rather than the Nowell cousins, which is why I posted my query, and can't really help much. Sorry. :'(
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My Nowell expert has also placed your John William as the son of John & Temperance, baptised according to familysearch in 1808 as William.
She admits that is based as much on "instinct" as research.
For your peace of mind the parish register should be checked as it may well have him with both names, or the vicar might have been working on memory alone when he wrote up the register and only remembered one name.
Certainly I would expect to find a John amongst their children, but familysearch doesn't list one.
???
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Hi many thanks for your help. On an 1861 census with his mother Charlotte is a son John William Nowell born in 1838 Dublin, Ireland. I think John and Charlotte were living in Ireland between 1836-1848 as 4 of their children were born there. With his fathers name also recorded as John Williams it is looking like his father could either be a William or a John or both. I will have to get hold of a copy of the William's baptism to see if it says anything else. Or see if I can find the marriage of John and Temperance.
Many thanks
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Have you tried the Devon family history society?
Quite probably they can help.
Good luck...............
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Hi I've come to join the discussions on the brixham nowells. What started out as an attempt to complete my mothers early ( before computers ) efforts to find dirrect ancestors has turned into an obsessive desire to link all the Brixham Nowell together like a jigsaw! it has been great fun and I must be getting near the end.??
John William born 1809-- a big problem-- there doesn't appear to be any trace of parents, I had given him to John & Temperance but the gap there between chidren is only 19 months, other candidates were Joseph & Mary with 23 months between children at that time, Richard & Mary or Thomas & Harriet but nothing concrete. I'm also a bit puzzled by note on Ancestry about probate on his will in 1876, £99 17 02d left to charlotte Lambert wife of William Valentine Lambert, I have Charlotte junior married to someone else. Any input to my jigsaw greatfully received.
I'd also like to find parents for John Nowell born Churston 1817 married to Mary then Eliza,- with Children John Percy, Florence Mary, and Annie
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William Valentine LAMBERT married Charlotte STOKES Sept qtr 1875 Thanet vol 2a page 1239.
Charlotte Thompson NOWELL married Thomas Robert STOKES Mar qtr 1859 Thanet vol 2a page 796.
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Hi,
Just picked up on this thread about the Nowell family from Brixham/Ramsgate, which I have been researching for the last couple of years.
Hope this is useful ;
According to the Devon Parish records John William Nowell was born in Brixham and baptised at St Mary's on 2nd Oct 1808. His parents were William and Catherine. They were married in 1802. William was a Mariner and Catherine's maiden name was May.
John William Nowell married Charlotte Thompson in Dover on 29th Nov 1830.
William and Catherine appear to have had at least four other children;
Nicholas (Bpt 9/12/1810)
Henry (Bpt 17/10/1813
Catherine (Bpt 17/8/1815
George Henry (Bpt 4/10/1818)
Nicholas went onto mary Elizabeth Rowse (B 1812) on 30th Apr 1832.
Another Nicholas (Bapt 16 July) 1815 (son of Nicholas Nowell and Mary (nee Dust)) appears to mary Selina Rowse in June 1839. As far as I can see it this Nicholas that has a son Nicholas who then ends up in Ramsgate.
Would be very interested if anyone has any info on possible links between the William & Catherine (m 1802) and Nicholas & Mary (M 1814).
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Hi Many thanks for the information.
Would you have a taken a copy of this baptism on the 2 Oct 1808.
I had some research done by devon family history society and they didnt manage to find a match but it does look like you do have a match.
Do you know if the Brixham records go back further eg the parents of William and Catherine
Many thanks once again
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Thank you for the information about John William & also for the post about Charlotte & William Lambert.
I have Willliam & Catherine's son as William born or rather baptised on 25th Oct.1806 and I was rather hoping I'd find a John William in the Exeter microfiches. must look harder next visit. I think William & Catherine had a total of 7 children.
Nicholas 1815 married Selina but she died aged 44, he then married Elizabeth Harford a widow.
Nicholas's parents were Nicholas b. 1796 & Mary Bird. Mary Dust married yet another Nicholas in 1814 they seem to have had only one son Matthew who died aged 1yr' in 1832 perhaps they should have been less adventurous and called him Nicholas!
The links between Nicholas 1815 & William 1757----- Nicholas' greatgrandfather Nicholas 1725 was brother to William's father John 1723.
The tree goes back from here to Phillip married in 1617 and rather more shakily to Phillippe & Rycorde married in 1589
I think these facts are fairly accurate.
At present I am trying to find out which William - of 4 born within 8 years, remarried as a widower, Mary Anne Trant in 1872 aged 63 and who his first wife was.
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Thanks to jill2011 and pilkdown, and for all contributions.
I know familysearch suggests that the mother of Selina's husband Nicholas was Mary Dust, but given that one of his brother's appears to be Stephen Bird Nowell (bap 1.2.1829) I think we can accept that his mother was actually Mary Bird. (Wife of Nicholas bap.1796.)
I wonder if anyone has found satisfactory burials for any of these Nicholas Nowell??
Especially the two that married the Rowse sisters please. (i.e. Nicholas's bap 1810 & 1815)
Perhaps that would help us sort them and their second marriages out. ::)
p.s. Jill - you can find transcribes on-line of some Brixham registers at the Brixham Heritage Museum site.
I think the parent's of William bap. 1757 were John bap. 1723 who married Jane Langmead in 1752.
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Hi
Just to let you know I did find John William Nowells baptism on familysearch - the name was misspelt - Its recorded as Kowell.
I havent started to look at burials as yet. Still trying to get my head around all the Nowell's.
I couldnt find Johns father William on familysearch.org in Brixham unless its spelt wrong that is. I did find
William Bennett Nowell bap 18/11/1776 Stoke Fleming
William Nowell bap 4/5/1777 Dittisham
William Nowell 14/11/1773 Stoke Fleming
Have any of you come across a William Nowell b abt 1780 in Brixham?
I did however find info on his wife Catherine May and her family if anyone would like this info let me know.
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If you do a search on your family name it will throw up a number of matches are these any of yours?
http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/index.php
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to mowsehowse thank you for your tip on locating early parish records for Brixham (bef 1765)
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I think I may have found William b abt 1780 but without checking the original records I can not be sure unless any of you have found this information.
I have a William Howell (possible misspelt) bapt 20/5/1779 Brixham parents John Howell and Mary.
Any ideas?
To Bilge - many thanks for the link, at the moment I dont think they are related to my side but early days yet.
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Hi,
Thanks for some very useful information jil2011, jigsawpussler and mousehowse.
Jill 2011 - Some further info on the Devon Parish Records, as mowsehouse says some records from 1600s to 1750s can be found on the Brixham Heritage Museum Site. Records from 1813 were transcribed by members of the Devon Family History group and were, I think, available on the BHM website, but can now be found on FindMyPast. As far as I am aware the pre 1813 records have not been transcribed (They are much more difficult to read than the post 1813 ones). I got the Bapt record for John William 1808 from microfiche at Brixham Museum - so I don't have a copy I'm afraid.
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As my particular interest is in the Rowse connection, I am trying to tie up the two Nicholas Nowells who married two Rowse sisters.
I sent for a copy of the death registration in 1860 of Elizabeth Nowell, however it turns out that this lady was the wife of John Wotton Nowell. :'(
If anyone has a particular interest in this information please pm me.
Which leaves me still trying to locate the death of Elizabeth (Rowse) Nowell bap. 1811.
Can anyone help?
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Hi
Mowsehouse, hope the following is useful Re Elizabeth Nowell (Rowse)
The 1861 Census shows her living with Nicholas and her family in St Julians St Tenby
The 1871 Census shows her living with her now married daughter Mary Davies (b 1884) in St Julians St Tenby. The Census records Elizabeth as a widow by this time.
The 1881 Census records her living with daughter Mary at 73 Great Thornton Street Hull
There is a death for an Elizabeth Nowell in Hull in the third Quarter of 1881 (Vol 9d Pg 163) aged 69.
I can find only one Elizabeth Nowell in the 1891 C who was born in Lewisham/London (There are a few other Newall/ Newell but none seem to work).
I'm pretty sure this is the person you are looking for.
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Thankyou Pilkdown -
That all sounds rather marvellous, but, from which site are you getting these readings ?
I can not get anything at all off findmypast or familysearch!!!
???
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Mowsehouse
Re Elizabeth Nowell (Rowse)
All the info is from Findmypast
Searched on Elizabeth Nowell (plus variants where applicable) born 1810 +- 4 years they come up as follows;
C1861 - Elizabeth Newel b1813
C1871 - Elizabeth Nowell b1813
C1881 - Elizth Nowell b 1812
Hope that helps
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mmmmm thanks.
Perhaps I better get my eyes tested!!
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Jill2011
I have John William's father as William born 25 Dec. 1757 son of John born 3 April 1723 & Jane nee Langmead.
There is a William born 20 May 1779 son of John born 1754 & Mary nee Decent. he married a Joanna Loram
Hope this is of use
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Now Im really confused - this is what I have what do you think? Records from familysearch and Brixham Heritage web site.
John Williams bapt 2/10/1808 parents William and Catherine (their marriage date 1 9 1802)
William bapt 20 5 1779 parents John and Mary Decent (their marriage 9 6 1778)
John bapt 1 1 1754 parents John (bapt 3 9 1723) and Jane Langmead.
John Nowell bap 3 9 1723 parents John and Agnes (no marriage date)
John Nowell bap 23 11 1701 parents Nicholas and Ann
Nicholaus Nowell bapt 7 8 1677 parent Phillip Nowell
jigsawpuzzler - I had a quick look for a marriage of William Nowell and Joanna Loram but the date was 29 4 1792 this would have only made William born 1779 13 years old at the time of his marriage (thats if I read your comment right). I believe this William married Catherine but I could be wrong.
Thank you to pilkdown for all your information.
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To pilkdown re message
"Would be very interested if anyone has any info on possible links between the William & Catherine (m 1802) and Nicholas & Mary (M 1814)".
I thought that William and Nicholas were brothers however I have found a family tree on ancestry.co.uk which suggests that Nicholas b abt 1796 was the son of a Thomas Nowell (bapt 21 9 1766) and Elizabeth Crews however I could not find any evidence of a baptism for Nicholas on familysearch. Thomas’s father is recorded as Nicholas Nowell bap 9 12 1725 son of John Nowell and Agnes which could be were the connection lies. (their children John b 1723 being Nicholas brother b 1725).
Brixham Heritage Records pdf files go up to 1765 so unfortunately I can not check this out.
If any one has the baptism of Nicholas in 1766 it would really help as I can not find this on familysearch.
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Hi Jill2011
Re William and Nicholas,
Thanks for that info, that all seems to make a great deal of sense. I am pretty sure they are related, as there are too many occasions when the two branches pop up together for it to be coincidence. I think it might be time for a trip to the Brixham history centre!
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Whoops - Ive got the date wrong for Nicholas - there is no baptism date just an estimate of 1796. Its Thomas baptism details I gave by mistake. Time to take a break I think.
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Jill2011 I have the same line back for John William as far as Nicholas & Ann, I then have Nicholas' father as John bapt. 26/1/1630 married Sibley. John as son of Phillip married to Martha Barrett 14/9/1617.
John has a brother Phillip bapt. 7/7/1633 who had a son Nicholas bapt.7/8/1677.
You are quite right there is a problem with William 1779 & Joanna. I 'm sure William is right but probably he was not married to Joanna, I think she came from Totnes,and may not be relevant.
The link I have for William & Catherine m1802 and Nicholas 1796 & Mary m1814 is ---
Nicholas' father Thomas bapt.2/9/1766 was son of Nicholas bapt. 7/12/1725 who was the brother of John bapt. 3/4/1723 who was the father of William bapt.25/12/1757. I will look for a date of baptism for Nicholas 1796 next time I go to ExeterRrecord Office
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jill2011 Nicholas's Bapt. date was 9/8/1799
does anyone have any information about any of the William Nowells born 1800 -1808 and later
which one was the father( married to Rhoda ) of Sarah bapt.2/5/1847
which William( a labourer) was the father of Elizabeth( married in1842 to Thomas Hodge)
any help appreciated
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Interested in a line that may have stayed in Bonavista, Newfoundland.
Nowell, Nicholas bn Brixham s/o Philip/brother John Noll (Nowell)
1675 - Ship: Bricksom Merchant, Brixham, Capt. Nicholas Newell, (Nowell) bapt Brixham 1630 s/o Philip
1705 - Captain of the Pembroke from London, John Noll (Nowell).
A stray - Nicholas Newal father of John 1785 Harbour Grace
Anyone know if their families remained in England?
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Hello Noel.
The earliest I have managed to get back to (in Brixham) is Nicholas Nowell (bap. 1677) son of Phillip. Nicholas married Anne Horsewell; they had sons (at least): John, 1701 + Nicholas, 1705 and Oades, 1707.
This was deduced after a very painstaking study of the parish register transcripts which can be found via the Devon pages of genuki.
John married Agnes from which at least 5 sons and a large family of descendants in Brixham and other fishing communities of the U.K. and Ireland.
My in-laws family tree has 2 sisters who each married a Nicholas Nowell in Brixham, during the 1830's.
I hope you get a posting from jigsawpuzzler as she is the Nowell expert, but I will help if I can.
Good luck.
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Thanks it is interesting I was reviewing St John's, Newfoundland,
Another stray....
Nowell, Joseph buried 25. Mar. 1835, 43, A native of Brixham Devon
possibly b 24 Jul 1794, of Joseph Nowell & Mary, Brixham??
This lead me to look at a different Joseph Nowell Married 1759
http://noelhistory.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/st-john-s-bap-and-burials.xls
stumbled on this
http://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/lab4/labvol4_2031.html
I thought this Joseph might have fit with Oades as a father......bap 22 Nov 1734
My previous stray Nicholas Newell is in St John's in 1795 concurrent with these others
However, I do see an earlier Charles Nowles in a 1706 census of St John's but this name does not seem typical of the Brixham Nowells
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Hi Noel, how fascinating!!
I would like to know where the name Oades came from, as I believe his mother's maiden name was Horswell - it is SO unusual I think it could take you back a generation perhaps.
I have sent a message to Jigsawpuzzler and am holding my breath for her to step in as she is a direct descendant and knows much more than I do.
It may be that she can find a whole line of Charles, for while I don't have any on the tree I constructed, mine is limited by the specific Rowse interest.
Are you aware of naming patterns? There was a tendency to name first son for paternal grandfather, second for father, (or maternal grandfather,) then third for maternal gf (or father). Likewise for girls, starting with maternal grandmother, and so on.
Eagerly watching this space........... :)
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Hi Noel.
Very interested in your information about Newfoundland.
I knew the family went over there but I didn't realize they were there in the 17th century, quite impressive. Where did you find this info ?
I have Nicholas and John very near the top of the family tree, a little earlier than them there is a Thomasine who marries in 1615, but I can't place a Joseph other than Oades son and i had him as dying in Brixham in 1778, but as it is very hard to be sure which of the many people with the same names does the dying, this could well be wrong.
Who was Hannah his wife, was she from Brixham i wonder. What was the source for the Joseph who married in 1759?
One branch of the family a George Nowell was in New Brunswick in 1847-1850 with 3 children born there.
You ask if any Nowells remain. In the 19th century the family seemed to spread to Hull, Tenby and Ramsgate and even London- in the 1911 census there were Nowells from the family in each town. I don't think there are any left in Brixham, and it may be that my uncle who died last year in Hull was the last of the name and with a fishing background from there, not sure about Ramsgate or Tenby & London
Interested to hear about your sources and connection to the Nowells and thank you for the input
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In tracking my roots in Newfoundland for the name Noel it was necessary to consider all spellings, including Nowell. Their early presence makes them very interesting but there are few records. The survey of ships was 1678. Some notes where added by Thomas Cole a Newfoundland historian. Captain Noll as you see was involved in an interesting event which likely drew attention from historians. I think I had long overlooked the data because Trinity Bay is the home of a long-established family of Newells.
Bonavista, Newfoundland links:
http://ngb.chebucto.org/Articles/1678-shipsr-bon.shtml
http://ngb.chebucto.org/Articles/bonavista-1497-1700-bon.shtml
http://ngb.chebucto.org/Articles/fr_atk.shtml
http://noelhistory.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/perlican.pdf
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The above Bonavista records had me interested in this group from familysearch.com:
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
father
Philip Nowell 07 Jul 1633 Phillip Nowell
Philip Nowell 25 Jan 1631 John Nowell
Philip Nowell spouse: Mathew 26 Jan 1639 Elizabeth Nowell
Philip Nowell 07 Mar 1631 Nicholas Nowell
Philip Nowell 07 Aug 1676 Nicholaus Nowell
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Brixton
I saw 2 Josephs relatively close together on familysearch.com if they survived:
Joseph Nowell 22 Nov 1734 Oads Nowell, Susanna
Joseph Nowell 15 Oct 1740 Joseph Nowel, Elizabeth
It may be that this fellow who died was John and a lone wolf in Nfld.
St John's, Newfoundland
From Seary: Newfoundlnad Names:
John (or Joseph) Newell (or Nowell), from Brixham (Devon),
of St. John's, deceased 1835, aged 38 (Times 25 Mar 1835, Star
and Conception B.J. 15 Apr 1835)
Baptisms:
http://www.math.mun.ca/~dapike/family_history/ParishRecords/stj_ang_cathedral_bap.shtml
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ooops! Joseph 1740 did not survive but had brother Joseph 1744
Have a tree going back a bit here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SYDK-CBD
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Hello Noel
Many thanks again, I have been puzzling over these Josephs. Could it have been Joseph b. 1734 son of Oades who was the wife of Hannah, do they marry in 1759 & father of the 3 children, then I have a Joseph b.1794 the son of Joseph & Mary, could he have been the John/Joseph who died 1835 aged 38?? If so I have 6 Josephs on my tree & 5 burial dates ie. one too many. Interesting how Joseph & Hannah's children start as Nowell but are Newell when they are buried. Are the Newfoundland Newells definitely the same family and do they then change to Noel? Any clue to what happened to Thomas born 1763?
I think John b. 1630 is my 8 x grandfather, his children are fairly well spaced so you could imagine a trans Atlantic voyage between each.
I have a John b.1659 and one b.1681 both have no English history so could be Captain John Noll,but it would be a long shot
Re the children of Philip I have his spouse as Martha and Nicholas's birth as 1630/31 ( change of calendar?) and Philip b.1676 as son of Philip b. 1633. Interested to hear of any more discoveries
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I will get a lookup if I can and determine if Joseph or John was recorded in the newspaper.
I chose Joseph as the name John does not appear in any other records. It will take about 2 weeks.
I, a Noel, have done a DNA test and was matched on 12 markers by a Newell so spelling is not consistent. Possible Nowell changed to Newell, much more common on the island. I will look.
This might be of interest:
http://collections.mun.ca/PDFs/cns_decks/DA_Vol22_No02.pdf
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A long shot.....
I just realized Tenby in Wales. I have 2 references to Wales for 2 different Noel family groups.
Just wondered if someone might see a fit.
1) William born Wales not sure where brothers Joseph and Jonathan born ca (1800-1810)
2) Isaac, James and ? ca 1755- 1775
more info here:
http://noelhistory.wordpress.com/category/william-joseph-and-jonathan-of-england/
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Hi all
I found this early entry for a Nathaniel Nowell and didnt know if it would help anyone. Just discovered this website whilst looking for the baptisms for my John William Nowell in 1837 in Ireland
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/daa6d80355167
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The Times and General Commercial Gazette (March 25 1835), St john's, Newfoundland
DIED on Monday evening last, after an illness of only forty-eight hours, Mr. JOSEPH NOWELL, aged 38, a native of Brixham, Devonshire. His funeral will take place from the house of Mr. Goss, this afternoon, at 3 o’clock, when his friends and acquaintances are requested to attend.
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Jill & Noel
I'm sure you must be right and he must be Joseph born 1794 son of Joseph & Mary, do we know if he had any family? also in your 6.30 post on 19th Nov, presumably Philip's children were all born in Brixham as they were in the Brixham parish records. I didn't find the Joseph 1759 marriage info, was this England or Newfoundland, was there a bride?
My Tenby branch of the family is later than 18th century no William or Isaac, nor Jill can I find a Nathaniel. Did you find a date for John William, I have Dublin 1838 thats all .
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No it looks like I transcribed the age wrong originally and Joseph and Mary are not a geat fit.
May not find that one.
Not sure these are Brixham but thought they might be related to the first Joseph
St. John's Anglican Cathedral records – Marriages Newfoundland
Joseph Nowel m Hannah Hoggins [6?] January 1759 Hannah dies [3?] Nov 1766
Joseph Nowel widower remarries Rebecca Heize 21 Sept 1767
Son Thomas sells family land 1820 - last I see of family so far
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Has some onedone an overview of the family?
Who is where when?
Saw this posted on a board:
"My Davies and Nowell families, 1700-1890s, lived right on the front by
Tenby Harbour."
Not clear to me if the both families from the 1700's
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My jigsaw puzzle starts with Philip born in Brixham at the end of the 16th century, there are a few earlier Nowells but any attempt to make a tree would be guess work. The Nowells stay in Brixham other than their seafaring until 1829 when
Henry b.1804 moves his family to Bridgewater.
William b.1806 has his family in Teignmouth & Brompton Kent 1834-47.
John William b.1809 has family in Brixham Ireland & Ramsgate 1831-51
Nicholas b.1810 has a daughter in Tenby in 1840
John 1818 has his family in Tenby 1844-47
Nicholas b.1815 has family in Ramsgate 1840
Stephen b. 1829 has family in Hull in 1850
In the 1870s some families went to London, but there was a lot of movement between Hull, Ramsgate Tenby & Brixham but with Brixham featuring less & less.
One Nowell Samuel b.1869 had his son Roger in Altoona USA, Roger joined the RFC in WWI and died falling from or being shot from a plane over France
I dont know about overview but I like to link these Nowells as far as possible! I think there are over 700.
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Another early tie to Newfoundland I think. Devon Petition concerning the Newfoundland fishing trade 1642. Names original. Notes from Thomas Cole....may have errors.
Spelling questionable - are Knowlings same family as Nowells:
http://ngb.chebucto.org/Cole-Documents/dartmouth-harbour-gathering-1642.shtml
3 Knowlinge Stephen B1615 s/o Step Dartmouth SS.
260 Knowlinge Jo B1622 s/o Steph Dartmouth SS.
306 Knowles Ben B1575 Widecombe itm Dartmouth SS.
713 Knowlinge James M1635 Brixham.
714 Knowlinge Tho M1645 Brixham.
946 Knowling Nicholas M1611 Ashburton?
991 Knowles F or P Bn abt 1580 Dartmouth SS
B is baptized.
Itm is In The Moor.
M is married..
SS is Saint Saviour.
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A researcher passed me this.
Richard Nowell, agent for John Slaney, Head of the Bristol London Company. Richard was born c.1594 at Brixham. He was the Son of Phillipe Nowell and Rycharde Eme, who were married in Brixham in 1589.
Richard Newell is referred to regarding the Coopers Cove settlement in Newfoundland:
http://noelhistory.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/coopers-cove-1610.pdf
Is this consistent with your information?
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More Captains and ship information from Newfoundland:
1677: Phillip Newell, Captain of the "Nicholas" out of Dartmouth. 90 tons with 56 men and 11 boats. (Boats were carried on deck for fishing)
1675: Nicholas Nowell, Captain of the "Brixham" out of Brixham. 80 tons with 60 men and 12 boats at Bonavista. 2 stages and 1 Train full. (A train is how Cod Oil was measured)
1676: Nicholas Newell at Harbour Grace. From Dartmouth with 30 men and 6 boats. Vessel particulars not recorded.
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Noel.good to get your info. I do have Richard son of Phillippe born 9/12/ 1594 on my tree, but there are also parish records of a Rycharde son of Phillippe who is buried in Brixham on 18/1/1602, and a Richard buried 28/5/1617. What was the evidence that Richard agent for John Slaney was the son of Phillippe?
On a recent stopover in Toronto I sent a request for information plus SAE. to Bonavista, but have heard nothing. It would be good to know if Nowell and Newell were interchangeable, did the Newells come from Dartmouth & the Nowells from Brixham, whether any Nowells settled there, whether any died there, I have no date for the death of Nicholas b. 1630. or his sons. Too many questions with no answers.
In Nov. you mention a post about Davies & Nowells in Tenby, where was that?
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My Davies and Nowell families, 1700-1890s, lived right on the front by
Tenby Harbour.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DYFED/1999-12/0945361795
Regarding Family Name spelling - Name changes here seem to be random. People came over often illiterate and without papers. Spelling was at the discretion of the recorder (Newell, Nowell, Noel, Noule, Nule, Neil, Noal, Knoll)
I will wait for a reply from my source of information regarding the family and Mr Slaney and may have him respond directly.
The source of Maritime info would be here:
http://www.mun.ca/mha/
I will check if if it is known whether the Newell info already provided is all they have.
Cheers
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I must apologize. The connection of The Brixham Nowells to the Cooper's Cove settlement cannot be supported. I requested the post be removed but I am not sure if that is possible. If you wish to do further research on Newfoundland hold for a bit. They are doing a Remembrance event and monument for the sailors of this ship:
http://noelhistory.wordpress.com/2012/06/02/1831-john-newell-survives-wreck-of-azariah/
The researcher has promised to keep an eye out for Newells during his efforts at identifying the other members. Contact me via the website if you want any other suggestions on researching in NFLD.
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Interesting Dartmouth petition here mentioning a Newfoundland connection again.
http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Dartmouth/MaryNowell1688.html
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This link from 1863 seems to indicate connections to both Dartmouth and Brixham at that time
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=027-1976_1&cid=-1#-1
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Hi
I don't know if this will be of any use to anyone but I'll throw it into the mix anyway...
I found a marriage of Mary Ann Nowell to Samuel Hamling 2/6/1848 at All Saints, Brixham. She was a spinster, of full age, the daughter of Nicholas Nowell, mariner. Samuel was also a mariner, son of Richard Hamling, thatcher.
In 1851 Samuel age 24 and Mary Ann age 28 were living on King Street, Brixham with 2 year old daughter Mahala (think this really refers to Amelia), and 1 year old daughter Sarah. Next door was Nicholas Nowell, widowed, age 51 and his married daughter Betsey Nowell age 26.
By 1861 they are living at Ramscombe, Brixham and Nicholas has moved in with them, they also have more children: Samuel age 9, Susan age 7, William age 5, Richard age 3 and Cornelius age 6 months.
In 1871 they have moved again and were living on Pump Street, Nicholas is no longer there. Samuel is a fisherman, Mary is a baker.
Some of Samuel's brothers and his parents had moved to Hull by the 1850's and were fishermen/mariners.
It is possible that Samuel's bride, Mary Ann Nowell, is the same person as the 15 year old Mary Knowell who on the 1841 census was a domestic servant and living in the household of Samuel's parents Richard and Elizabeth Hamling in King Street. (At that time Richard was a baker).
Also Samuel's mother Elizabeth (nee Coke) had a sister Susannah born in 1781. She married Edward Rouse 28/9/1800 at St Mary's, Brixham.
Could this be a connection to the Rowse family??
Anyway hope this is of use to someone!
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Hello and welcome Sarah.
Thank you so much for taking the trouble to post information surrounding this HAMLING / NOWELL marriage in 1848.
You are absolutely correct that Elizabeth Coke who married Richard Hamling, was the sister of Susannah Coke who married Edward Rowse in 1800.
I have traced Susannah's ancestors and descendants for several generations, so if you have an interest and I can help please do let me know. :D
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Hi
I haven't gone back very far with the Coke family. I know that Susannah and Elizabeth were the daughters of William Coke and Susanna Gibbons, who married in 1775 at St Mary's Brixham. I also have baptism dates for William and Susanna's other children. Susanna Gibbons was born in 1753, the daughter of William Gibbons and Susanna Pulsever who married in 1752.
That's as far as I have gone so far so any other info would be great.
Do you happen to know where the Hamling family came from?
I have got Elizabeth's husband, Richard Hamling, born in Brixham in 1797 son of Richard Hamling and Ann Smale (or Small) who married in 1787. I have siblings for Richard but no trace of where Richard senior came from. There are some Ancestry trees which show him coming from Widecombe but I'm not sure...
best wishes
Sarah
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You don't say what your particular interest is??
I am sorry I only have Richard Hamling as married to Elizabeth Coke..... but there is a current Richard Hamling, an ardent researcher, who shows up if you google him. I would always check any trees I found on-line quite carefully to verify, if I wanted to use them.
I have not researched all the families of Susannah Coke's siblings. I usually just note the marriages, as I have quite enough trouble keeping tabs on the one line, and would sooner look at the social history than have masses of BMD with no other details.
All the Brixham St Mary registers are available free on-line and you can find them here:
> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/BrixhamStMary <
Rowse is my particular interest.
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Thank you Sarah for putting the information about the marriage of Mary Ann Nowell and Samuel Hamling. I havent been on the website for a while so I have only just found it.
Mary Ann Nowell is my husbands 1st cousin 5 x removed. So I haven't managed to look into this side of the family yet.
How are you related to Mary Ann if you don't mind me asking.
I would be very interested in any information on the descendants of their children if you have traced these and don't mind sharing.
On my side of the family I do have a lot of Hamling/Hamblin and other various spellings of the name and they come from the Gloucestershire area and have traced these back to Hungerford in Berkshire but I dont expect they are the same family but you never know.
Jill
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Hi Jill
I don't have much more information about Samuel and Mary Ann other than what I put in my earlier post.
I do have the baptisms of their children as follows:
Samuel born 28/11/1851 bapt 4/4/1852 at All Saints, Brixham
Sarah Kate born 23/2/1850 bapt 4/4/1852 at All Saints, Brixham
Amelia Elizabeth born 19/7/1848 bapt 1/1/1854 at All Saints, Brixham buried 16/11/1864 at St Mary's, Brixham
Susan Ann Nowell born 17/8/1853 bapt 1/1/1854 at All Saints, Brixham
Richard born 9/12/1857 bapt 16/3/1860 at All Saints, Brixham
William Gibbons born 15/6/1855 bapt 16/3/1860 at All Saints, Brixham
Cornelius born 16/11/1860 bapt 8/8/1862 at All Saints, Brixham.
So they appear to have had their children baptised in batches!
I haven't traced their descendants any further. I'm not related to the Nowell family and only to the Hamlings by marriage. Samuel's brother Cornelius moved to Kent and had a family there before moving to Hull where his parents Richard and Elizabeth had already gone. Cornelius' daughter Christiana married Edmund Jordan in 1874 and he was the brother of my ancestor Richard Jordan. I wouldn't normally spend much time on "in-laws" but the Hamlings seemed interesting and Brixham is not far from where I live so I thought I'd have a look. I posted the info I had on Samuel & Mary Ann because I stumbled across this thread and hoped it would be of help to someone else rather than because I wanted to follow it up myself.
I think Samuel's son Cornelius went to Hull as well (lots of the family did so).
Best wishes
Sarah
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Found This marriage, 13 April 1832 All Saints, Brixham, Marriage Nicholas Nowell and Elizabeth Rowse Witnessed by William King, Joseph Palfray (X)
sometimes transcribed as Knowles.
I have Kingdom family also from Brixham, Ramsgate, Hull & Tenby.
gogogadgetlegs
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Yes..... thank you gogogadgetlegs.
Then Elizabeth's younger sister Selina Rowse married Nicholas Nowell at St Mary's in April 1839. :-\
For years I assumed it was the same Nicholas, but eventually found census proof that it wasn't.
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Just found that i have a Jemima Rouse married a George Sparks 24 Dec 1834 Brixham they moved to Tenby, Brixham, Ramsgate. Jemima daur of Edward Langman Rouse & Susanna Gibbons.
Phil
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Yes, she was their sister too. :)
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If you want a copy sending of this part of the family could email me and i will forward you a copy,
Phil
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Hello Noel
Many thanks again, I have been puzzling over these Josephs. Could it have been Joseph b. 1734 son of Oades who was the wife of Hannah, do they marry in 1759 & father of the 3 children, then I have a Joseph b.1794 the son of Joseph & Mary, could he have been the John/Joseph who died 1835 aged 38?? If so I have 6 Josephs on my tree & 5 burial dates ie. one too many. Interesting how Joseph & Hannah's children start as Nowell but are Newell when they are buried. Are the Newfoundland Newells definitely the same family and do they then change to Noel? Any clue to what happened to Thomas born 1763?
I think John b. 1630 is my 8 x grandfather, his children are fairly well spaced so you could imagine a trans Atlantic voyage between each.
I have a John b.1659 and one b.1681 both have no English history so could be Captain John Noll,but it would be a long shot
Re the children of Philip I have his spouse as Martha and Nicholas's birth as 1630/31 ( change of calendar?) and Philip b.1676 as son of Philip b. 1633. Interested to hear of any more discoveries
NOEL and JIGSAWPUZZLER
I found these burials for daughters of Joseph and Hannah in Newfoundland: 1764 and 1765.
Do you have them?
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cannf/as_angpar1752.htm
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Apologies - lost track of this.
arrived destitute
Boston 1762
Joseph Newell, his wife and a child
http://ngb.chebucto.org/Articles/cole-trinity.shtml
The Noel/Newell question remains open. My Noel line claims Jersey heritage but one Newell branch has been shown to have matching YDNA. They have a strong tradition of English heritage. There is another Newell line, thought to be English, which may or may not tie to the one previously. mentioned. Additional lines are also possible as other lines may or may not connect to those mentioned.