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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: miriamkinga on Monday 19 September 11 12:39 BST (UK)
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Morning all,
I have come across a birth record for a Martha Goater on the FreeReg site for Somerset. She is listed as being born in 1814 in Twerton, Somerset - father Anthony mother Sarah (Higgins).
Can anyone see a marriage for Martha ? I have tried & failed to find one!
Recently I have been contacted by a lady in New Zealand who says Martha married a Charles Baker and emigrated to New Zealand. She has emailed me a copy of the wedding cert for Martha's second marriage which confirms her parents.
I think have found the family on the 1851 census (ref HO107 Piece: 1480 Folio: 547 Page: 8) as follows but can't find the marriage: -
BAKER, Charles Head Married M 35 1816 Journeyman Carpenter born in Bath, Somerset
BAKER, Martha Wife Married F 36 1815 born in Bath
BAKER, John Son M 10 1841 Scholar born in Bath
BAKER, Louisa Daughter F 5 1846 born in St Georges, Middlesex
BAKER, Thomas Son M 3 1848 born in Saint Margarets, Westminster
BAKER, Hannah H Daughter F 2 1849 born in Saint Margarets Westminster
Any thoughts/ help on the way forward would be great.
Best wishes
Maria :)
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You say second marriage - was that the marriage to Baker?
In which case, was Goater her maiden name, or the name of her first husband?
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Dear Liz
Goater was her maiden name. Her second marriage was to a man called Charles Massey. The cert gives her status as widow and her parents as Francis Goater (think this should be Anthony) and Sarah Higgins and POB as Bath, England.
best wishes
Maria
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They Married in Gloucestershire.
Martha GOATER, Single
Charles BAKER, Single
13 December 1835, Bristol, St Mary Redcliffe, Gloucestershire
(Source Bristol Marriages on Familysearch.Org)
Trish :)
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Thanks Trish - you're a star! ;D
best wishes
Maria
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Hi Maria,
I am happy I could help.
Another Child for them.
BAPTISM;
St Mark, Lyndcombe and Widcombe, Gloucestershire To CHARLES/MARTHA Baker;
CHARLES, 13 November 1836, Abode Paradise Row, Fathers Occp Carpenter.
(Source FreeREG)
Trish :)
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Thanks again Trish.
Poor Charles - wonder if he died as he doesn't appear on the 1851 census with the rest of the family.
Best wishes
Maria :D
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He may be alive and away working by 1851 as he would be 15/16.
I dont have Census access as my Net download is at the limit so cant look for him.
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Dear Trish
I have had a quick look for 1851 census for him but too many Charles Bakers!!!
Thanks again for all your help.
best wishes
Maria
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Hi Maria,
Are you interested in the Higgins side of her family as well? I have recently traced a friend's family back to a William Higgins, born Englishcombe (near Bath) about 1778. He appears to be a brother of Sarah Goater (nee Higgins). They are in adjacent houses in Englishcombe in 1851.
David
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Miriam, I am also in New Zealand, a descendant of Martha Goater who married Charles Baker. I also have the census of this couple and their family who were living in London in 1851. Have you made any more discoveries regarding this family?
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Hello DRH, can you tell me the name of the street that Sarah Goater, nee Higgins was living in at the time of the 1851 census when she was living adjacent to her brother William Higgins? Thank you, Marion
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Hi Marion,
Welcome to Rootschat.
There is no Street name on the Census at all, just Englishcomb.
Do you want full details?
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Yes thankyou.
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1851 Census
English Combe, Somerset
HO/107/1940/143/13
William HIGGINS, 73, Head, Widower, Carpenter, born English Combe, Somerset
Hannah UNDERWOOD, 23, Daug, born Weston, Somerset
Emma Higgins, 20, Daug, born Chease, Surrey
William Underwood, 7mths, Grandson, born Wabstone, Surrey
Next Door;
Sarah GOATER, 74, Head, Widow, born Englishcombe
Nearby;
Elizabeth HIGGINS, 56, Head, Widow, Laundress, born ?, Somerset
Mary, 19, Daug, Laundress, born Englishcomb
Sarah FEAR?, 5, Grand/Daug, born Englishcomb
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Thankyou Trish.
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1841 Census William Higgins and Family are in Chertsey, Surrey;
William HIGGINS, 65, Carpenter
Mary, 40
Emma, 10
William, 8
Keziah, 5
Wm/Mary are not born in County, Children are which fits with Emmas POB on 1851 Census which should be Chertsey, not Chease!
1841 Census (under Goates)
English Combe Village,
English Combe, Somerset
HO107/961/6/English Combe
Anthony GOATER, 65, Pauper, not born in County
Sarah, 60, born in County
Trish :)
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1861 Sarah seems to be still alive age 79 Boarding with the Hould Family.
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I earlier found a Francis Gother [different spelling] on 1841 England Census, born about 1786 in Shropshire, England.
I estimated the birth year of Francis Goater, father of Martha Goater, to be 1785. I do not have an actual birth year for him.
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I am interested in Hannah Higgins marriage to ? Underwood about 1849/50.
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Hi MJH
Hope you are keeping well. Not done much with the tree recently due to the cricket season. Now over at last so hopefully I can make some progress :)
Francis Gother appears on the 1841 census in Madeley, Shropshire - HO107 piece 928 folio 2/13 page 20
He is a barge builder (think that's what it says!) aged 55 born in county, wife Mary 45, Edward 25 carpenter, George 20 joiner, Ellen 19 & William 15 joiner, all born in county.
Best wishes
Maria :)
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I cant find a Underwood/Higgins Marriage on FreeBMD.
May I ask where Francis Goater/Gother, Shropshire, fits in?
Burial;
Anthony GOATER, 08 February 1846, St Peters, Englishcombe, age 73
(Birth c 1773)
Anthony GOATER and Sarah HIGGINS married 07 May 1810 , same Church
Witnesses, Jacob BACK/Ann HIGGINS
(Both on FreeREG)
Anthony is down as not born in County in 1841 Census;
Anthony GOATER Christened 03 August 1773, Micheldever, Hampshire
Parents ANTHONY/ELIZABETH
(Source F/S.Org)
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Hi Trish, I was looking for a Francis Goater with the various possible spellings. I now know that Francis Gother of Shropshire does not fit as a father for Martha Goater. See the post by Maria. Thanks for your help. Marion
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Hi Trish
No neither can I - or in parish marriage records or on the IGI.
MJH mentioned coming across Francis Gother so I put up the census info for reference. Not sure if/ how he fits in.
best wishes
Maria
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Sorry Trish and Maria, I was getting a bit excited when I asked for a marriage Higgins/Underwood. It was because I saw a Hannah Underwood was living in the household of William Higgins. She had a 7 month old son. I was jumping to conclusions and got it wrong.
No excuse, but the reason I got excited is that Underwood is a name in the ancestry of one of my grandchildren.
Marion
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I posted a reply to you and it was unsuccessful. So hello again, I can now see that Francis Gother is not connected to Martha Goater.
Marion
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Hi Marion,
Martha BAKER nee Goaters second Marriage in NZ to Charles MASSEY confirms her Parents as Anthony Goater and Sarah Higgins.
That is why I have been following them.
Trish :)
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Hi Trish, do we share the same ancestors? Martha's daughter Louisa was my grt grandmother.
I have a copy of Martha Baker nee Goater's 2nd marriage to Charles Massey in front of me. It names the father as Francis Goater and the mother as Sarah Higgins. Also on Martha Massey/Baker/Goater's death certificate which I have in front of me, her father's name is Francis Goater.
Lots of fun,
Marion
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Hi Marion
I'm a bit confused as to why Martha's father is listed as Francis when all the other records seem to suggest he was Anthony?
Best wishes
Maria
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It is confusing, I agree. Perhaps Martha had forgotten/not known her father's Christian name. He died before Martha came to NZ in 1859.
In my previous post, I was just letting Trish know what was on the certificates that I have.
Is your Henry Kingston Goater related to Martha?
Marion
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Now I'm confused!
No I am not related but am from New Zealand ;D
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Trish in NZ, Please explain what it is that is confusing you?
i.e. is it because you have a certificate with the name Anthony Goater on it, and I have a certificate with the name Francis Goater on it - as the father of Martha Goater?
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Hi MJH,
No I have no Certs as I am not related to this Family.
I just had read some of it incorrectly and got confused between your and Marias posts.
Ok, a Daeth Cert may have the wrong Parents names on it as it depends how much correct info the informant on the Cert had.
Marriage Certs usually are more correct.
Unfortunately the 1st Marriage of Martha was before Civil Reg so it would have only Witnesses names.
As I can find no other Martha Goater with a Father Francis I presume either he was known as Francis within the Family or their has been a mistake onthe Cert in NZ.
Trish :)
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Thanks for your reply Trish. By the time Martha Massey/Baker nee Goater died in 1886, the name of Sarah nee Higgins was not written on it. Memories fading, maybe.
I always ask for microphagic copies of the actual entry, so there is no typing error. The name Francis Goater is clearly written. We may never know why. I have been cautious about accepting that he is Anthony. However, now I have added the name Anthony Goater to a couple of online trees.
In old notes of mine, from the IGI - British Isles, I found a possible sister of 'Francis' Anthony Goater:
Martha Goater, female Christening 05 Feb 1771, Micheldever, Hampshire, England.
Marion
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Maria, I hope you enjoy new discoveries in genealogy, now that the Cricket has finished.
Important to me; Regarding your Sept 19th post, Martha Goater born 1814. Did your source actually show the names of the parents. [You have stated their names as Anthony Goater and Sarah nee Higgins.]
Alternatively, would you kindly list for me the documents you have, or have seen, which show Anthony and Sarah as the parents for Martha Goater?
Thank you,
Marion
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Hi Marion
the website www.freereg.org.uk has a baptismal record for Martha Goater baptised 13/02/1814 parents Anthony & Sarah, father's occupation labourer.
The Somerset OPC site - wsom-opc.org.uk/index.php?id=19 - has the marriage record of Anthony Goater & Sarah Higgins at St Peter's Englishcombe 07/05/1810.
best wishes
Maria
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Maria, thanks so much for your research: Baptism of Martha & the marriage of her parents. Do you know of any other siblings of Martha?
Marion
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Dear Marion
Martha had the following siblings: -
Children of Anthony Goater and Sarah Higgins:
i. 2. John Goater was born 31 Jan 1811 in Englishcombe, Somerset and died 1875 in Newport, Monmouthshire
ii. 3. Martha Goater was born 1814 in Twerton, Somerset
iii. 4. Elizabeth Goater was born 1817 in Twerton, Somerset
iv. Mary Goater was born 1823 in Twerton, Somerset
best wishes
Maria
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Thank you Maria :)
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:) Today I found the siblings of Martha Goater b. 1814 on a family tree on myheritage.com website: John b. 1811, Elizabeth b.1817 and Mary b.1823.
Martha's brother John Goater 1811-1875, had a son Francis Goater. [His other children were: Martha, Sarah Ann, Priscilla 1837-1926, Alfred James].
So the name 'Francis' does appear in the family, and may give a clue to how Anthony's christian name was given as FRANCIS on Martha Baker's [nee Goater] 2nd marriage certificate 1881 in NZ, and her death certificate 1886 in NZ.
Marion
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:) Martha Baker nee Goater's second marriage was to Charles Massey, a son of John Massey, hotel keeper, and Mary Ann Adams. Charles was born Hackney, London.
Charles had been a soldier in the Crimean War. He had been in NZ since about 1860.
Martha's brother John Goater married twice. His second wife was an Ann Adams. [source a genealogy website].
Marion
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Hi Marion
Do you have the details on John's first wife - from the freereg site: -
John married Sarah Lewis 5th January 1834 at St Peter & Paul's Kilmersdon.
best wishes
Maria
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Hi again Marion
Forgot to say that I have been looking at John again this afternoon and it looks like his first wife Ann Adams - her maiden name was Lewis - not sure if she was the sister of Ann Lewis his second wife.
best wishes
Maria :)
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Hi Maria, I have been looking at your last two posts. The names you have for both John Goater's wives, appear to be different than the names that were on the myheritage website Guest Family.
1st wife you say is Ann Lewis [had she been married before to .... Adams?]
2nd wife you say is Sarah Lewis m. 1834
The Guest Family Site says:
1st wife Sarah Lewis
2nd wife Ann Adams
Perhaps the Guest Family site was wrong. Can you clarify this for me?
Marion
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Maria correctly had the first wife as Sarah Lewis in her previous post. The FreeREG entry she quotes shows they were bachelor and spinster.
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Marriages&RecordID=587840
The second marriage is on BathBMD, with the alternative surnames of Adams and Lewis. You cannot tell directly from that which was her maiden name but, since it is shown on FreeBMD as Adams, that is the name she used at the time and is most likely her first married name.
Bath Marriage indexes for the years: 1847
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GOATER * John ADAMS Ann Bath Register Office Bath RO1/6/092
GOATER * John LEWIS Ann Bath Register Office Bath RO1/6/092
David
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Dear David
Thanks for your input.
FreeReg has a marriage for James Adams, occupation mason to Ann Lewis at Kilmersdon in 1828.
In 1851 the census has John Goater and wife Ann with their daughters Sarah Ann, Martha & Priscilla, sons Francis & Alfred James and step daughters Susan Adams born Kilmersdon 1828 & Emily Adams born Glastonbury 1837.
Best wishes
Maria
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Thank you David, and Maria.
In NZ, the National Library's website Papers Past has articles about a John Goater who was a jockey riding horses for a Count de Lagrange,[circa 1877 and onward] and for Prince Soltykoff [the latter a member of the English Jockey Club]. Also a W Goater who trained horses circa 1900.
Just thought you might be interested.
Marion
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Update: Martha Goater, married (1) Charles Baker (2) Charles Massey. I have just found an article in the Timaru Herald 2 Aug 1910 (NZ). It is an obituary for Martha's second husband, Charles Massey - he died 1 Aug 1910. His first wife (Martha) is described as being a widow with 7 children (at the time that he married her). Until now, I have known of only 6 children, these being; Charles who did not emigrate to NZ; John, (a gap where another child may have been born) Louisa, Thomas, Hannah, Charlotte (these 5 emigrated with their parents to NZ). Charlotte was born after the 1851 England Census.
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"7 children" My apologies, this should read "family of seven". This could make a difference.