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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Eve45 on Thursday 29 September 11 08:27 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Richard HAMPTON died on 22 April 1852, drowned in the Shoalhaven River in NSW. John SIMMS was indicted for his murder or manslaughter but the evidence was not sufficient and he was discharged, not guilty. There are reports in several newspapers of the incident and the indictment (June that year).
I would really like to buy a copy of Richard's death certificate because I suspect he belongs in my family tree - there are no other details in newspaper reports of his death, not even his age. BUT there is no death registration for him in NSW - I've searched for every possible variation of HAMPTON in a wide year range and even just for Richard, no surname, registered 1852 or 1853. I know that many life events weren't registered at that time but I would have thought that one that appeared in newspapers, and obviously went through some sort of legal process, would have been registered.
Can anyone shed any light on Richard and/or why there is no death registration?
Thanks lots.
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Hi there,
Civil registrations commenced in NSW in 1856, so none of the indexes at NSW BDM give you death registrations earlier than 1856.
The transfer of information from parish records to NSW BDM included many records for burials, but there's no guarantee that all records of all burials were included.
The Early Church Records that NSW BDM does have indexed all start with the prefix "V" and cover Baptisms, Weddings and Burials in the districts/territories/counties that were part of NSW during the penal times ...
Do you know if Richard Hampton's body was recovered? If so, perhaps do you know his denomination? If so, perhaps a letter/email to the local family history group for the Shoalhaven may stimulate some interest for a search for his grave....
Cheers, JM
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Thanks for your reply - I suspected something like that. I guess records were a pretty hit and miss affair in those days because eveyrthing was changing so quickly. I've applied for a copy of his marriage (I think it's him, anyway) from 1845 and have been warned that there might not be much of use because it's a church record (Wollongong Presbyterian according to the early church codes).
The body was recovered, pretty gory and battered by all accounts, and an inquest was held on 13 May 1852. The entry in the register of coroner's inquests is not very helpful - it just says that the verdict was manslaughter by John Simms, so presumably that's what brought about the indictment.
I like your idea about the local history group. I've had a look online at cemeteries where he might be buried in the area but they all opened too late to have him as a tenant. Local knowledge might give me some where he ended up, so I'll definitely do that. Thanks, much appreciated!
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Eve, hi.
Your post is a bit dated, but hopefully you might pickup on this reply.
I'm the g-g-grandson of Richard Hampton, and I'll probably have most of the genealogy information on your(?) antecedent. He was a resident of Good Dog Creek near Bomaderry where he purchased a 50acre farm in 1851, just before to his untimely death. Prior to this they (the family, with wife Ellen Doran) lived at Green Hills which was on the Graham Estate on the Nowra side of the river, his occupation then a carpenter I believe.
A court record in the 1880's pertaining to his estate mentioned he was a Ferryman on the Shoalhaven River. You may find he was buried at the Cambewarra Cemetery, though I doubt this very much as the earliest records date from about 1874. A possibility is the Historic Old Numbaa Cemetery where burials date pre 1852.
As an aside, his eldest son Thomas Hampton became one of the last Bushrangers to operate in NSW. He was mortally wounded in an escape bid form the Old Macquarie Gaol in 1872, aged 27 years.
Kind regards,
Greg Rogers.
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Hello and welcome to Rootschat Greg, ;D
I am sure Eve will pick up on your post and be happy to get any information. Just as an aside on the burial site of Richard Hampton. I used to stay, quite a few back now, but still there I believe at The Archer Resort on Greenwell Point Road. There was a very old cemetery out at Worrigee operating at that time. Pretty run down now and after having a look at the interments there he is not listed, but many graves do not now have headstones. So it could also be a possibility. A local surveyor, drowned in the Shoalhaven in the early 1850's is noted as buried there.
Neil
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Great to hear from you, Greg! I still re-visit Richard and Ellen and their story. As more information becomes available and more newspapers are digitised, I like adding to the stories. I had read about Thomas - "a very active and powerful man standing 6 feet 2 inches, he was undergoing a sentence of eight years imprisonment, passed upon him in the year 1866 on three different charges of highway robbery under arms" - but I wasn't certain that he was Richard's son, so thank you for confirming my theory.
Richard is not my ancestor - he's the ancestor of my aunt's partner, who is descended from Richard and Ellen's daughter Mary (1847-1908) and (Captain?) James Smith. Richard is recorded as a carpenter on Mary's second marriage certificate. May I ask how you are connected? I find this all fascinating...
Thanks for your comments too, Neil. I have a feeling we'll never actually know where Richard is buried. The cemetery at Worrigee sounds possible - Richard's circumstances were similar to the surveyor - but without a death certificate it's going to be difficult to find out for sure.
Thanks again, this has made my weekend. :-)
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Eve, hi.
This reply will be a bit of an epistle, so grab a coffee.......
How are we connected? Mary Hampton-Smith-Rogers (d. Manly, 1908) was my g-grandmother. I have the original Certificates of Marriage for Mary to James Smith (Mariner) and later as widow to Walter James Paull ROGERS. Mary is buried in Manly Cemetery, see attached lo-res image.
OK, interpreting the genealogy lines for Richard Hampton and Ellen Doran was confusing and perplexing to say the least, there being entities with similar names DOB etc., also to have lived around the Shoalhaven River. This added to the fact that the NSW BDM Registrar in abt. 1912 appended notes to the death certificate intimating Mary spend some years in Tasmania which really threw me a curve ball, there being Dorans down that way too! My grand father Edward was obviously unsure of his mothers date of birth and true age when she died.
Mary could neither read or write but was employed as a midwife for most of her adult life and towards the end at The Manly Village Hospital in Darley Road, a short stroll from her residence in Thornton street where she lived with son Edward, a Farrier who worked in Whistler Street Manly.
Digressing, my aunt recounted a story passed down when she was but a lass as family lore relating to Richard Hampton's death. The story goes like this..........Richard had a mail run on the Shoalhaven, was held up by a local bushranger going by the name of "Dick the Lag'' , murdered and his hands cut off. I contacted the Nowra Hist Socy looking for clues about this fellow, but drew a blank. It took some time, years in fact , to unravel the intriguing tale of melded half truths and not so, which had over 100 years evolved more as characters borrowed from the novel of "Robbery Under Arms".
The facts: John Simms and Hampton were partaking an evening of revelry (drinking) at the house of Angus Robertson on the Shaolahven (somewhere), accompanied by another neighbour of Richard's, one Charles Comerford who had a farm just a bit North from Hampton's 50 acres, purchased in 1851. These properties were at Good Dog Creek, on the Bomaderry side of the river. Simms and Hampton decided to row across the river, but not far from the shore, Richard fell overboard and drowned. We know the rest, how his body wasn't discovered until a few days later. I've pondered on the mention of his hands being cut off?. I attribute this to maybe the local marine life had a few nibbles at his limbs whilst he was submerged but it was not reported in his autopsy.
Collateral damage, Ellen Hampton (Doran) is now left to look after the farm and almost made destitute until an opportunistic pardoned ex-con sweeps her off her feet and marries Ellen, no doubt thinking he may have an easy-in for inheriting the farm one day. Joseph Smith was his name, not exactly a moral compass when it came to rearing step children it seems.
About 1860, when Thomas Hampton was 15 years of age, he was convicted along with Smith for thieving a neighbours steer and butchering it. Caught in the act, both sentenced to 5 years hard labour on the road gangs. Thomas, upon his release takes up with a couple of other recently released felons and went on the rampage robbing Royal Mail coaches, four in total before they were apprehended.
Now James Smith, Mary's first spouse, the Captain. Nought too much known about him other than a James Smith died from an epileptic seizure on tramp steamer en-route to Brisbane about the time of his recorded death.....a real enigma. Going by his eloquent style of handwriting, James Smith was quite accustomed to the use of a pen, in contrast to his poor wife poor Mary.
I'm guessing the distorted tale that was told to me was concocted to mask the embarrassing shame of having a bushranger included in ones family. His existence wasn't known until I fully researched all the connections and joined the dots thanks to Trove NLA Newspaper on-line as there wasn't too much out there 10 years ago when I first became aware.
Will call it a day for this chapter. You could probably email me if you wish to continue with our dialogue, but that's up to you. I have some period (downloaded) Shoalhaven parish maps depicting where the Hamptons resided for Green Hills and at Good Dog Creek.
As far as cemeteries go for Richard Hampton's final repose, Neil (thanks) mentioned Worrigee, but who knows for sure. Son, Thomas Hampton is buried in the Port Macquarie Historical Cemetery. No marker, but his name is inscribed as a list on a bronze plaque for those interred within.
Kind regards,
Greg.
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Hi Greg,
That was a two-coffee epistle... thanks for all the details. My friend (the actual descendant) has a copy of that same photo (the portrait) but she was never completely certain that it was Mary.
The story that Mary was told is interesting - it probably did deflect from the truth of having a bushranger in the family. Gotta love Trove - it was also the way I found much of my information about the Hamptons, helped along (although sometimes they were no help at all) by certificates.
My friend is descended from the daughter of Mary and the dubious Captain John Smith, Ada Mary Ann Smith (1872-1955) who married William Charles Kennedy in 1895 in Petersham. Thank you for the note about James Smith - I've looked at so many mariners' lists and "died at sea" articles without any convincing joy. I have a note in my file that a tree, including James, at Ancestry says that James died in about 1879 at sea, believed to have been murdered before his last child Clara was born. More murder?
The maps would be very interesting if you don't mind sharing.
Many thanks again,
Loretta (Eve is just my Rootschat name)
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Loretta, hi.
With regards to photo(s) above, the larger image where Mary is standing outside a picketed fence house is very much enhanced in photo-shopped. My original is degraded, faded and almost illegible. When I was labouring over it, curious I took a closer look at plaque on the wall just to the right of the door to the house. Almost indiscernible was the name Mrs ROGERS. It was then I could label the portrait with Mary's name, as I too was not sure of her identity until that time. Pic was not taken in Manly, I'm hypothesising it was around the inner west (may have even been Balmain), like Petersham, Dulwich Hill.
My aunt Edna Rogers was the boring family historian who spent many years researching the various lines of our family genealogy, long before the wealth of on-line archives an resources we appreciate today. She did the hard yards on foot, a creditable and accurate job indeed. Edna was going blind in her later years and had to go to a nursing home in the late 1990's. They were clearing out her house when uncle Ron telephoned, knowing I was a serial hoarder enquiring if I was interested in Edna's 'junk' as no-one else had put there hand up. Well what was there was boxes of photos, old certificates dating back to the 1850's all her notes and correspondence. Her legacy, the accumulated wealth of 150 years documented history of a family destined to be discarded as landfill. Now I'm the boring family historian.......
On James Smith's Marriage Cert it states Mariner. The 19th century term is more synonymous with an appointment as a navigator, having a Masters Certificate or ticket. When looking into James and where he may have been 'crusing' around, I found reference to a James Smith Master on the Northern Rivers, but that was back I about 2003. There are Maritime Registers for seamen but I haven't bothered to investigate beyond his marriage.
Ada Mary Ann, Minnie and Clara are known issues of that union. They are all of course half sisters to my grandfather. Clara remained close to Edward, I have a photo of her on the back verandah at the Rogers home in Waitara taken in the late 1950's. She went through a difficult time with her marriage and was staying there for as spell. My Aunt Doreen (Rogers) was in contact with her daughter for a while, Christmas cards and the like but hasn't heard form her for many years now. Clara died in Manly too, buried in Manly Cemetery I believe, but could be wrong.
So what happened to Minnie???????
Sure, can share the maps and other stuff I have. Just email us at: (*)
Regards,
Greg.
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Hi Greg,
I don't know what happened to Minnie - sorry.
Mary's death certificate lists the following living children for Mary:
1st marriage:
Ada, 36
Sarah, 34 (Sarah was a witness at the marriage of Ada and William Kennedy)
James, 32
Minnie, 30
Clara, 28
2nd marriage:
Elizabeth A P, 26
Edward R, 22 (your grandfather, I presume)
I also have a Walter J Rogers in my notes - born 1884, died 1885. Apart from the appearance of Sarah on Ada's marriage certificate I don't know anything about the other children...
Blessings upon your Aunt Edna - when I started doing this it was all archives offices and microfiche too, no online stuff at all. The wealth of information available now is wonderful and I can spend days just exploring Trove.
Thanks for your stories :-)
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Hello! It's been a while since anyone has spoken on this message board. I'm the great, great, great, great granddaughter of Richard Hampton and I'm hoping someone may have some information on who his parents were and when he came to Australia or if he was born here. My grandfather and I are hoping to trace his lineage but we can't find much information on Richard Hampton. Any help will be greatly appreciated!