RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: IgorStrav on Saturday 08 October 11 23:15 BST (UK)
-
I wonder whether anyone can help me with this one.
I have Arthur Friend (or Frend) Cooley, born 25th February 1873 in Chatham. He was christened with the surname Cork, but the family changed their name to Cooley and appear as such in Chatham in 1881 and 1891 censuses.
In 1901, Arthur is in Chatham, 30 Caroline Street, with his wife Mary A Cooley (born 1878 in Plumstead, Kent.
Also there is their son, Arthur David Cooley, born 3 1/2 (apologies, corrected) months ahead of the census in Chatham, and Arthur snr's brother, David R T Cooley (at this point Arthur snr's father was dead, and his mother was in hospital).
I have tracked down all of Arthur Friend Cooley's siblings through the 20th century, but I cannot find him, or his wife, or son Arthur David.
I'm not looking for an 1911 lookup - think I've tried most of the versions I can think of (and not allowed to do so, here, anyway ;)) - but would greatly appreciate any other suggestions.
It would be good to track down the family, as I have just received a contact from someone connected to an Arthur Cooley born at about the same time as the young Arthur David, and it would be great to be able to prove they are connected.
Any thoughts?
-
Have you already ruled out Arthur Cooby on the 1911 index aged 38 and living in Medway. His birthplace matches to Chatham
-
Interesting, Carole! That didn't pop up under Cooley variants. But this man is a skin dresser, when mine was a dock labourer. Will have another look tomorrow when I can see the image itself.
And, of course, if it's him, where's the family?
Thanks so much for looking!
-
Arthur Frend Cork
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
residence Kent, England
parents Richard Cork, Charlotte Jane
Arthur Frend Cork
Bap/Christening Date 12 Mar 1873
Baptism/Christening Place SAINT PAUL,CHATHAM,KENT,ENGLAND
is this him
sylvia
-
Yes, thank you Sylvia, I have his details right up to the 1901, (though not his marriage - if he did actually marry Mary A), it's after the 1901 where I lose sight.
Thanks for looking.
-
I have tried all the surname variations and just searching on the first names of all 3, Arthur Friend, Mary Ann and Arthur David, but can't find them anywhere in 1911, nor a marriage for the couple. Very much a puzzle, the obvious suggestion is that they emigrated, but I couldn't see any likely candidates on passenger lists, US census etc. There were a couple of possibilities for deaths of Arthur COOLEY, born 1901 in the US Indexes, do you have an exact date of birth for him?
-
Hi Scintilla
do you have an exact date of birth for him?
This is the closest it gets - nothing exact
Births March qtr 1873
Arthur Friend Cork Medway 2a 501
and from Sylvia's reply above
Arthur Frend Cork
Bap/Christening Date 12 Mar 1873
Baptism/Christening Place SAINT PAUL,CHATHAM,KENT,ENGLAND
-
Sorry, I should have been more specific, for Arthur David. I know you said 3 1/2 months before the 1901 census, but I wondered if you had an exact date. I found an Arthur COOLEY death registered in New York State with a dob of 17th Jan 1901.
-
This is from freebmd although he could have been born in the December of 1900
Births March qtr 1901
Arthur David Cooley Medway 2a 656
There is only one other Arthur Cooley birth around that time but it was in the December qtr 1900 so doesn't link to a January 1901 birth
That death looks a good possibility
-
Yes, it is a possibility, the last address for this Arthur COOLEY was Binghampton, Broome, New York, but as I say I couldn't see any likely names for the family on the ships passenger lists if they went to the US.
I had a quick look on CityArk for a baptism for Arthur David to see if I could get a dob or baptism date at least, but couldn't find anything in the 3 Chatham churches in the first half of 1901.
-
Yes, I think the Jan qtr 1901 birth reference for Arthur David Cooley in Medway must be the right one.
However, I couldn't find a CityArk baptism reference for him, either.
There don't seem to be any other possible Medway Cooley births after 1901 (I was wondering whether another child would help with tracking the family down), and it's really helpful to have other eyes looking at the Immigration/Emigration records just to see if I've missed anything.
I was rather surprised that the 1911 entry Carole found for Cooby hadn't popped up when I looked for variants of Cooley, so despite Scintilla's excellent research, I will have another look.
The reason I'm having another look at this family is that I've been contacted by someone whose grandfather was an Arthur Cooley, born about 1901 in Kent, who was apparently in the army in firstly Cricklewood in 1925, and then at Wellington Barracks with the Coldstream Guards (I've posted a separate thread on the Armed Services Board asking for advice as to how to research this soldier).
I'm keen to find out whether this Arthur Cooley is the same as the Arthur David I'm enquiring about here.
Arthur David was too young for WW1, but his uncle was a career soldier and served in WW1 as well, so it's not beyond possibility that the two Arthurs are one and the same. I've been advised that to get hold of the army records I will need a death certificate, though, so I'm at a bit of a dead end at present!
I suppose getting the 1901 birth certificate would be a start, and would at least get me an accurate dob.
-
Have you already ruled out Arthur Cooby on the 1911 index aged 38 and living in Medway. His birthplace matches to Chatham
Have now had a look at this image and it could indeed be COOLEY. I have also gone back over Arthur Friend Cooley and note that in the 1891 he is shown as a sausage skin manufacturer, and then a dock labourer, so a further change of occupation to skin dresser could be possible.
This 1911 entry shows an entry for Arthur (crossed through) as married for 7 years, but no children.
But where, as we said before, are Mary A and Arthur David?
-
You have just made my day! I have in front of me my great grandmother's marriage certificate:
Marriage solomnized in the Parish Church of St John's Chatham, 30 January 1904. The bride was Bertha Cooley, aged 17 years, spinster, no profession given, residence 30 Caroline Street, Chatham. Her father's name is given as Alfred Cooley.
The groom was Arthur Ernest Read, 23, bachelor, corporal at Chatham Barracks. Arthur was born in Australia and returned there with Bertha and family in the early 1920s.
This has been the most frusrtating line in my whole family for many years now.
When my grandmother was born in 1907 her birth certificate gives her mother's maiden name as Evenden. The birth certificate (1886) I thought would have been Bertha's has the father as Nathan Evenden and the mother as Mary Ann Cork. One of the reason's I believed this to be Bertha's birth is that my grandmother had told me that Bertha's brother, who she named as Albert Sydney Cooley had broken his neck in an accident in a dockyard in Scotland because his scarf had caught in machinery and that his body had been brought back to Chatham. She was 10 years old in 1917 and remembered the circumstances including the fact that an aunt Cooley came to the funeral who was aged about 94 years.
Now the problem here is that the man killed was named Albert Sydney Evenden... His death certificate contains a correction following the inquest and this gives his home address as 40 John Street, Ordnance Place, Chatham. His parents were Nathan Evenden and Mary Ann Cork which ties with Bertha being his sister.
My notes from talking to my grandmother are quite brief and written about twenty years ago. She mentions the following about her mother Bertha Cooley:
Bertha's grandfather Nathan Evenden was 90 in 1921.
Bertha was one of eight in the family. Her sister Lizzie Cooley married a Canadian (Harry? Read?) and went to Canada.
Bertha's sister Alice died young.
Bertha's son Sidney lived with her mother until they came to Australia.
Bertha's mother lost a baby boy.
The youngest was Marie Cooley (Aunt Polly) who married ? Hyde and lived near Bertha and Arthur at Chatham (they were living at 48 Eldon Street in 1907). Marie had a son Wally Hyde.
Bertha's mother was Mary Ann Evenden.
From the 1911 census
Arthur and Bertha now have four children but also living with them are Nathan Evenden aged 55 and Albert Sydney Evenden aged 28. The postal address was 11 Best Town, Chatham
If anyone can verify or help with sorting this out it would be much appreciated. I am so confused!
-
Welcome to Rootschat
I remember Igorstrav's CORK/COOLEY conundrum well ;D
To start you off and understand where the names originated from, there are a couple of huge thread for you to read through http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,338879.0.html
Casalguidi :)
-
1901 Claygate Cottage, Wrotham
Nathan EVENDEN head mar 44 orginary farm labourer b.Mereworth
Polly wife 40 b.Seal
Alb. Sydney son 18 works with horses on farm b.Ide Hill
Alice dau 11
Lizzie dau 9 b.Marden
Arthur son 9m b.Malling
RG13/745 folio 68 page 20
...............
1891 10 Rope Yard R......., Woolwich
(lodgers)
Nathan EVENDEN mar 39 ag lab b.Merryworth (Mereworth) Kent
Polly 30 laundress b.Seal Chart Kent
Albert 8 b.Sundridge Kent
Bertha 5 b.Marden Kent
RG12/532 folio 17 page 28
Does the birthplace of Bertha (Marden) in the 1891 census match with what you have (or near enough)?
Casalguidi :)
-
Hello all - I read Goldcoast's post very early this morning, and the Cooley/Cork mystery has been revolving in my head ever since.
Thank you so much, Casalguidi, for pointing the direction to the older research, although I wouldn't want to put Goldcoast off at the start!!
I am mailing Royd (of this forum) who also has Cork connections in the Chatham area at the time - irritatingly, some of the facts you mention are ringing a vague bell in my mind (but don't place any weight on this, yet), and I want to see if anything connects with Royd's family.
In very brief summary, Goldcoast, of mine and Royd's Cork(e)/Cooley connections:
It appears that a Richard Cork(e), born in 1817 in Stone, Kent, who was an itinerant farm labourer, had a family with a Jane Cooley (born c 1820 in Surrey), and they moved through Kent and Surrey borders, as "travellers".
We can follow them because of the baptism records of their children, as well as some censuses. There's no marriage record for Richard and Jane, and their children variously called themselves Cork or Cooley.
My great great grandfather, another Richard Cork (Richard and Jane's son), did marry my great great grandmother, and their daughter was registered as Cork. However, the two split up, and the very long thread Casalguidi mentions, finds that Richard moves to Chatham and marries (bigamously), using his mother's name, Cooley.
As I mention in this thread, his first two children with the new "wife" ahead of their bigamous marriage, were registered as Cork, but then the whole family changed their names and became Cooley.
So I will have a good look round again, and see if I can link in Bertha - the very mention of the address in Chatham, the names both Cork and Cooley, and the working in a shipyard, whether Kent or Scotland, seem to suggest irresistibly that there is some connection somewhere!
Back to you, later, and will alert Royd also.
-
Thank you Igorsrtav and casalguidi
I started to have a look at the long thread but it is already way past my bedtime here... will check it out tomorrow.
In brief, I cannot find an Alfred Cooley... could Bertha be a cousin or something???
The Bertha I thought was mine was born 'in a hop house on Duddy's farm, Hunton? RSD?' (last bit hard to read). I think I remember my grandmother saying (although I did not write it down) that her mother was from Maidstone which I think is not far. Maidstone was definitely mentioned in a number of conversations I had with her.
I must be seeming like some kind of beginner with all these references to heresay but quite the contrary - I have been searching for clues on this family for so long through official records and have now had to dig out these old notes to get myself a fresh view and some incentive to go on. Had no idea about Cork/Cooley and thank you for that.
Not sure if this ties in with the travelling bit but I vaguely recall some mention of gypsies as well.
I have always had the feeling that my family on this branch were not sure of their names or relationships and beginning to think the gut feeling was correct.
Lastly, casalguidi, I wonder why Nathan Evenden aged only 5 years in ten whilst his wife and son did the regulatory 10 years...
Glad to meet you and Rootschat
cheers
-
Hi Goldcoast
While you are sleeping the sleep of the just over there in Oz, I am just about to have a hunt round the censuses etc over here.
I'm just going to summarise, if I can, to get myself straight.
Your great grandmother's marriage certificate of 30th Jan 1904 says
her name is Bertha Cooley
she's 17
her father is Alfred Cooley
her address is 30 Caroline St Chatham
can I ask who are the witnesses to the wedding, please?
we can link this address to my Arthur F Cooley, a wife Mary A, a son Arthur David Cooley in the 1901. In addition, my Richard Cork/Cooley, his wife Charlotte (Tolhurst) and the family were living at this address in the 1891
Your grandmother's birth certificate in 1907 gives her mother's maiden name as Evenden
However, in 1917 there was the death of an Albert Sydney Evenden (or Cooley), at whose funeral a Cooley aunt appeared, aged in her 90's.
You also have a birth certificate for a Bertha Evenden, whose mother was Mary Ann Cork. If this is a member of the Cork clan who variously called themselves Cork or Cooley, it would explain where the Cooley reference comes from.
However, it does not explain why Bertha's marriage certificate gives her father as Alfred Cooley!
This family has made my head hurt before. And is evidently going to do so again.
Will post anything interesting today I come across.
PS do you have an Ancestry Tree?
-
Bertha dau of Nathan and Mary Ann EVENDEN bp Holy Trinity Woolwich 13 Mar 1890 (born 18 Jun 1886) of 5 Rope Yard Rails, lab. Alice (born 16 Feb 1890) was baptised the same day.
I notice Bertha gives a birthplace of Marden on the 1911 census which matches with that given on the 1891 census of Woolwich.
Bertha's 1904 marriage IgorStrav
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ki2/
I think it all looks pretty much ok EXCEPT that Bertha says her father is Alfred COOLEY on her marriage ............. her mother was still a COOLEY wasn't she if she wasn't married to Nathan EVENDEN?
IgorStrav (and Royd), Bertha's mother, Mary Ann, looks well to be the daughter of Richard CORK and Jane COOLEY from Seal doesn't she?
Casalguidi :)
-
Yes, I'd just found that baptism, Casalguidi, and thought it must be Bertha's.
I'm also thinking that Mary Ann (sometimes called Polly) didn't actually marry Nathan Evenden, and that was why Bertha called herself Cooley.
I'm also wondering if Bertha therefore made up a father's name to fit her official surname?
When Sarah Cooley, first daughter of Richard Cork and Jane Cooley, got married for the first time, she left the father's name blank. However, when she got married again, and her surname was therefore not Cooley, she DID show her father as Richard Cork.
Sorry, should have said, thanks for the marriage cert. No clues from the witnesses, then!!
The last child of Richard Cork and Jane Cooley was Mary Anne. I last have her in the 1881, aged 20, born in Seal in Kent.
I shall now have another look for her afterwards, and see if I can connect her with Nathan Evenden.
-
I can't quite find positive evidence for Mary Ann Cork(e)/Cooley, last seen in the 1881 with her father Richard Cork, to be Mary A or Polly Evenden.
On the other hand, I can't find Mary Ann anywhere else after the 1881, so she could well be the Polly Evenden on the 1891 in Woolwich.
Can't find Albert Sydney's birth ref, either as Evenden, Cooley or Cork(e). However, just another bit to the jigsaw, his birthplace is shown as Sundridge, in the 1891 Census. Sarah Cooley, eldest daughter of Richard Cork and Jane Cooley, by then Sarah Dalton, is living in Sundridge in both the 1881 and 1891 Censuses.
And where's Bertha in the 1901?
However, I think that the address, the Cooley and Cork references, the appropriate Mary Ann/Polly means that it's very likely, as Casalguidi says, that Bertha is descended from Richard Cork.
Which must mean that Goldcoast and I are related, albeit somewhat distantly! And realistically, she's probably related to Royd, too, as neither Royd nor I can believe that her Daniel Cork isn't part of the same family.
Anyone help fill in the missing 1901 census ref, I'm wondering if Bertha is with another bit of the family which would add to the proof? They evidently did keep in touch.
-
Re the 1901, think I've found Bertha as a servant in Wrotham, not far from her family. Shown as Evenden.
Blow! I was hoping she'd be with the more remote family somewhere!
-
aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :o :o :o
Not more Corks and Cooley's surely ??? ???
Am going to put my head under a pillow until I can face this lot again ;)
Back later. Bit busy now. R.
-
I do know how Royd feels. We have been through so much, together and separately with these wretched people. ;) As indeed, have the helpful and resilient Rootschat audience, Casalguidi chief amongst them!
For some reason I've been unable to persuade Ancestry to let me find Bertha, Arthur, Nathan and Albert Sydney in the 1911 in Chatham, under every combination of names and including trying the address provided.
Are Mary Ann (Polly) and the other children with them - any clue about how many years married, number of children etc? If they aren't there, where are they?
I think I've found Mary Ann (Polly) Evenden's death in 1918 in Medway, and Nathan's death in 1924, also Medway.
I can't find Albert Sydney's birth or death (presumably the lack of death ref is that it was in Scotland, access to whose records I don't have).
I think I've found Alice's death record in 1903 in Medway, Goldcoast said she died young, and this death is aged 12.
No joy with Lizzie's birth or marriage, can she be the Catherine Lizzie Evenden birth ref in Jan 1891 in Cranbrook, Kent?
And, finally, if Mary Ann (Polly) Cork, Cooley, Evenden is who we think she is, then Goldcoast and I are both related to Richard Cork (1812) Stone, Kent, and Jane Cooley.
They are my great great great grandparents, and hers, and that makes us fourth cousins. :)
-
I can't find Albert Sydney's birth or death (presumably the lack of death ref is that it was in Scotland, access to whose records I don't have).
Albert Sidney CORE (the image actually says CORK) June quarter 1883 Sevenoaks registration district http://freebmd.rootsweb.com
For some reason I've been unable to persuade Ancestry to let me find Bertha, Arthur, Nathan and Albert Sydney in the 1911 in Chatham, under every combination of names and including trying the address provided.
Because Kent isn't indexed yet it's a bit of a faff! Do a general search for READ with keyword Chatham and select census lists, 1910s, 1911 census summary books and make a note of the parish, ed (enumeration district) and schedule number or, better still, open a new window! Go back to the front page of ancestry and right at the bottom of the page where it lists some popular records select UK census, 1911 census of England and then, from the drop down menu in the right hand box, select county, civil parish and ed (enumeration district). If she schedule is, say, 19, you'll find this on approximately page 38 as there are two pages per schedule - one for the front of the form and one for the form itself. Hope this helps
Going back to "Arthur Frend COOLEY", does it say on the 1911 census whether he is married and how long for as there is a 1904 marriage for an Arthur COOLEY in Medway http://freebmd.rootsweb.com though I realise neither of the possible spouses are a Mary ::)
Lizzie's birth is more difficult with such a common first name but it should be in the Maidstone district if it was Marden. There is an Elizabeth EVENDEN 1891 Maidstone district .......... possible perhaps?
Casalguidi :)
-
Could you hear the swearing as I trolled my way through Ancestry to the Read 1911 Census record, following your helpful instructions, Casalguidi? Air was blue, here.
For any interested parties, the record shows Arthur Ernest Read, his wife Bertha, and 4 out of the 5 children they say they've had in their marriage - as I recall, Goldcoast says that Sydney lived with Bertha's mother, so that's perhaps where he is.
In addition, there's Nathan Evenden, aged 55, single, farm labourer, born Mereworth,
Albert Sydney Evenden, aged 28, single, farm labourer, born Sevenoaks. The relationship to Bertha isn't shown, both are boarders, as is another single woman Elizabeth Lily Lovett.
So I think that demonstrates that Nathan and Mary Ann (Polly) didn't marry.
I shall try Casalguidi's method to see if I can find Mary Ann and grandson Sydney and any other Evenden children, such as Lizzie and Arthur, and the others - presumably there were more if Bertha reports she was one of 8, even given that Alice apparently dies ahead of the 1911.
-
I have had no success in the Chatham 1911 with Mary Ann (Polly) Cork/Cooley/Evenden with any of her remaining children and/or Sydney Read.
Goldcoast mentioned that one of Bertha's sisters, Marie (Polly) married a Mr Hyde, and I have found two of their children, Audrey (1914) and Walter A S (1917 - this is the Wally, Goldcoast mentions) both born in Chatham with mmn Evenden, but I can't see a Hyde/Evenden(Cooley, Cork) marriage at present, or any birth ref which would fit Marie. And I can't see them in the 1911 in Chatham, although I've looked at all the Mr Hydes who pop up via Casalguidi's method.
-
And finally, (unless any other miraculous discovery pops up tonight), I have been thinking about the 90 year old Cooley Aunt, who attends Albert Sydney's funeral in 1917.
If she really was 90, she'd have been born in c 1827. None of Mary Ann Cork/Cooley's siblings was that old. However, I think one strong candidate is Sarah Cooley, Mary Ann's eldest sister. Sarah was born in 1837, and would therefore have been 80 in 1917. She lived in Sundridge at much the same time as Albert Sydney was born there, and her daughter Ellen was born at around the same date. In the 1911 she's in Westerham, Kent, and it may well have been that she journeyed to Chatham to give her respects.
Goldcoast, I am thinking that it would be very helpful for you to see my Private Ancestry Tree. Once you have made 3 posts, you will be able to PM me (which you do by clicking on the green scroll under my name at the left) and give me your email address, and I will then be able to invite you
-
Not sure I can add anything to this at the moment - as I haven't really delved into the Cooley's that much.
However, I remember the Sundridge census.........if memory serves me right, he is there with a Mary Ann Corke who is actually Mary Swaisland but is listed as his wife. His daughter Mary Ann is there also.
For some reason the name Evenden rings a bell but I simply cannot remember why! I don't have the name in my tree but I know I have seen it somewhere.
Hopefully, sleep may restore some grey cells!
R. ;D
-
Royd, I also thought Evenden rang a bell! Which was why I said I thought something in what Goldcoast had said linked in somewhere.
Goodness knows where we both think we heard it..... :o
I also thought John St Chatham rang a bell, but can I find it anywhere? No.
-
Hi IgorStrav
I have to go to work right now but this should be my third post. You could have a look at my private tree too although I think you have pretty much done all the work in one day that took me years, and a lot more :)
Running late but what I had for Polly's children is (and Marden is there... didn't look in my haste last night)
1. POLLY1 EVENDEN was born about 1861 in Seal, Kent, England. She married NATHAN EVENDEN. He
was born about 1857 in Mereworth, Kent, England.
Nathan Evenden and Polly Evenden had the following children:
i. ALBERT SYDNEY2 EVENDEN was born about 1883 in Ide Hill, Kent, England.
ii. BERTHA EVENDEN was born on 17 Jun 1886 in Kent (Tunbridge Wells?). She died
on 04 May 1941 in Griffith. She married Arthur Ernest READ, son of William READ
and Emily Ann Ida ROGERS on 30 Jan 1904 in Kent (Tunbridge Wells?). He was
born in 1880 in Redfern NSW.
iii. ALICE EVENDEN was born about 1890 in Kent, England.
iv. LIZZIE EVENDEN was born about 1892 in Marden, Kent, England.
v. ARTHUR EVENDEN was born about 1900 in Malling, Kent, England.
-
Marian EVENDEN m Walter A HYDE Medway Sep quarter 1913 Medway registration district http://freebmd.rootsweb.com ref. 2a 1694.
I've looked through the marriages on Medway Cityark for all the Chatham and Gillingham C of E churches and couldn't see it though I can't promise that I haven't missed it if anybody would like to double check. I didn't get so far as checking Rochester.
I also checked Chatham and Gillingham for that 1904 Arthur COOLEY marriage but couldn't see that either. It looks like it could be that of the Arthur COOLEY (skin dresser) in 1911 if he says he's been married 7 years :-\
Mr HYDE could well be Walter Ambrose HYDE died Sep quarter 1971 Chatham registration district (born 2 Jan 1889). The birthdate matches a baptism in Islington, London. There is a death for a Marian HYDE in Chatham December quarter 1956 age 67 which would mean a birth about 1889.
Any sightings of Marie/Marian/Mary Ann/Polly(possibly bc1889?) in any census yet ???
Casalguidi :)
-
Hmmmm .............. "Lizzie" Elizabeth EVENDEN bc1892 Marden. I looked at http://freebmd.rootsweb.com and there is a 1909 marriage in Medway for an Elizabeth EVENDEN to (one of the two possible spouses) a Charles Edward BELL. I looked for any Elizabeth bc1892 Marden give or take a couple of years in the free index of the 1911 census http://www.1911census.co.uk/ and there is an Elizabeth BELL in Medway (I checked place and she comes up for Chatham). I then looked for other persons in household and she cross references with a Chrls Edward BELL. I think maybe she could do with checking out - I haven't looked on Cityark for a marriage.
Casalguidi :)
-
You are such a star, Casalguidi! ;D
Have turned off Ancestry for tonight (though still checking updates via my I-phone!!! ;)), but will get on it tomorrow.
Wonder where Mary Ann (Polly) was in the 1911? Goldcoast implies she was alive, looking after Sydney, so she can't have died, can she?
I think the last son, Arthur, born 1900 may have done, though, there's a death ref c 1905 (need to check that date, didn't make a note) and that could be the little boy who was lost.
-
Just had a thought ;D
If "Lizzie" supposedly married a READ and went to Canada perhaps Mr BELL (assuming we have the correct husband) died in WW1 ???
Charles Edward BELL Royal Navy 297972 born Hastings 13 Jan 1883 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/royal-navy-service.asp?WT.hp=Registers%20of%20Seamen%27s%20Services
Checking the 1911 free index for BELL born Hastings ......... Chrls Edward BELL pops up in Medway ;)
Charles Edward BELL 297972 died 25 Nov 1914 and is buried in Lowestoft http://www.cwgc.org/ (unfortunately, no next of kin given).
Goodnight :)
-
you guys or girls are absolutely amazing ;D Am trying to get my head around all of this but you certainly seem to have it in your radar. So happy to know my fourth cousin and that they have such an interest in the family! I must warn you that you have now discovered a huge Australian branch of the family, Bertha and Arthur had 15 living children (one twin died) and 12 of those had families... some of them quite large.
I am trying to find a photo of Bertha and Arthur taken with their then family on the eve leaving Chatham for Australia. A distinctive feature of Bertha and her children were large almond shaped eyes coming from her side as Arthur had very distinctive wide narrow slit type eyes. I know this photo is here somewhere just haven't found it yet. Would be interested to know if any other family members have eyes like this.
I will try and attach a photo of Bertha with her daughter Evelyn Bertha (my grandmother) taken in 1907. Obviously the outfit was the photographer's as they as poor as church mice.
Still going through the forum threads...
Wow, thank you again
-
I think Bertha bears a resemblance to Adelaide Cork from Royd's family!
If we are right, Adelaide would be her cousin
-
What a lovely photograph :)
Now, with regards to finding Bertha's mum in 1911, Goldcoast says Sidney lived with her ;D
Sidney Arthur bp 9 Oct 1904 St John Chatham (born 17 Sep) son of Bertha and Arthur Ernest of 6 Meeting House Lane, labourer in HM dockyard
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0kin/
Use the advanced search at http://www.1911census.co.uk/ for Sidney READ born Chatham and up pops "Sidney Auther READ" age 6. Look for surname *e* (thinking EVENDEN here) in the same household as Sidney Auther READ in Chatham and up pops a Mary Ann BELL age 48 with a "Marran" BELL age 22 ............... the forenames and ages are certainly right ;D
Casalguidi :)
-
Yes Casalguidi a lovely photo and looking at it some more it seems her wedding ring is carefully displayed, maybe something of a rarity in this family ;)
The Bell connection is a great discovery, something I don't think I could have done. Today I sent IgorStrav some letters to Sydney from Marie Hyde and Audrey whose married surname I know now is Parker. Sidney was very attached to his cousins and kept in contact with them for decades after the family came to Australia. They mention some other names but if there is anything relevant IgorStrav will probably, or should I say certainly, pick up on it.
Thank you for finding Sydney's birth. He died when I was about 10 but I distinctly remember him from holidays at my grandmothers as he lived there in the later part of his life.
It is now quite late here and I have to work in the morning...
-
What a lovely photograph :)
up pops a Mary Ann BELL age 48 with a "Marran" BELL age 22 ............... the forenames and ages are certainly right ;D
Casalguidi :)
Pick a surname, any surname ;)
I don't suppose it has years of marriage (or presumably she says she's single does she?)
-
Oh that's lovely that you have letters and things sent all that way so long ago :)
Pick a surname, any surname
;D
Well she comes up when you type "head" into the relationship box so you should be able to find her on ancestry. I don't know how many BELL household's there will be in Chatham but you can probably discount all the "Mr" ones which should narrow it down a bit if not a lot.
Casalguidi :)
-
Here's a photo of Adelaide Delma Corke. If this turns out to be the right family, Bertha would also have been a cousin to my grandma Beatrice.
Have been busy but will try and catch up later. R ;D
-
Well I think they look very like, what does anyone else think?
-
This is Beatrice Olive Cork - sister to Adelaide Delma
-
What a fascinating thread!
Thought I'd have a look for Lizzie's marriage for you :).
CityArk image 00110303.jpg for St Mary's Church Chatham
Charles Edward Bell 25 B
Stoker RN of HMS Lord Nelson Chatham
f. James Bell Carpenter
to
Elizabeth Evenden 18 S
41 Cross Street Chatham
f. Nathan Evenden Labourer
30 Oct 1909
Banns
Both signed for selves
Witnesses Robert McQuillan and Louisa (?) Robinson
Regards
Polarbear
-
Thank you, Polarbear! That's another good one!
I thought I would let you know that I have fought Ancestry through to the 1911 Census.
I know why Mary Ann is calling herself Mrs Bell - it's so that her name matches her daughter "Marran" Bell's surname! Mary Ann says she's a widower, married 8 years (!), with 4 children, all living. Occupation home washing.
She is born Sevenoaks.
Daughter Marran Bell, who is single, is shown as born Maidstone, no occupation.
Then there's a boarder, Edith Maud Motherill, aged 19, single, also home washing.
And finally, Sidney Arthur Read, grandson, aged 6, born Chatham.
It really does make me think of the old proverb about "what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive".
I wonder if Goldcoast knows if Mary Ann had separated from her husband at that time, and that's why he's single and she's widowed, under a different name? Or is she still just covering up the fact that they weren't married.
As Goldcoast says, no wonder Bertha's proudly demonstrating her ring finger!
Now tell me, don't you think all the ladies look quite alike?
This is my great grandmother, who was the much older cousin of all the others - if we're right, that is
-
Apologies, the 1911 Census for Mary Ann says 8 children born alive, 4 now living, 4 died. No note of length of marriage.
-
Just a little question.
If Mary Ann is at the John St address in 1911 with MARIAN, her daughter, who is, at this stage, not married, why does she call herself BELL, which is the actual married name of another daughter, Elizabeth?
Still looking for Elizabeth and Charles Edward.
-
I wonder if Goldcoast knows if Mary Ann had separated from her husband at that time, and that's why he's single and she's widowed, under a different name? Or is she still just covering up the fact that they weren't married.
A few days ago I wasn't even sure if Polly was Mary Ann and if she and Nathan Evenden were the parents of my Bertha... When I re-found my notes last weekend I was reminded that Syd had lived with Bertha's mother, unfortunately I hadn't asked why... So even though I knew a Nathan Evenden was living with Bertha, Arthur, their kids, Uncle Albert and another woman it didn't even click until now that Bertha's parents were separated! doh!
And why was a very young Syd with Bertha's mother and Albert with his father and sister?
I shudder to think but when this is all sorted to some level I will need to re-visit Nathan Evenden, not even sure if I have the correct one which is why I have never tried to go back further on that line...
Must get back to work.
Also, I think there is a likeness between the girls
-
thank you polarbear for contributing, very much appreciated.
This is the most wonderful forum, wish I didn't have to go to work. Am going to try and add all the bits to my tree asap.
One more question, why would Mary Ann Cooley call herself Polly? Is there an significance in that name? My grandmother said that Marie was called Aunty Polly...
-
Polly is a well known nickname for women called Mary or Mary Ann, for some reason, which would explain Marie being called Polly, too.
Put the kettle on! ;D
-
And finally, (unless any other miraculous discovery pops up tonight), I have been thinking about the 90 year old Cooley Aunt, who attends Albert Sydney's funeral in 1917.
If she really was 90, she'd have been born in c 1827. None of Mary Ann Cork/Cooley's siblings was that old. However, I think one strong candidate is Sarah Cooley, Mary Ann's eldest sister. Sarah was born in 1837, and would therefore have been 80 in 1917. She lived in Sundridge at much the same time as Albert Sydney was born there, and her daughter Ellen was born at around the same date. In the 1911 she's in Westerham, Kent, and it may well have been that she journeyed to Chatham to give her respects.
Going back through the posts... Whilst my Grandmother Evelyn was pretty accurate with most of the info she gave back in the 1980s from memory this is one that may be wrong. Evelyn would have been just on 10 years old at Albert's funeral and an old lady to a girl that age is oooollllldddd and she may have overestimated the age although the fact that she remembers this old Cooley lady is probably true in that someone from that side was at the funeral.
-
Ever since I first saw the name Polly in the family that old nursery rhyme comes into my head :D
-
I have Bertha Cooley/Evenden's birth certificate which says she was born on the 18th June 1886 'in a hop house on Duddy's farm Hunton?' Father Nathan Evenden, mother Mary Anne Evenden formerly Cork, father's residence No. 6 Fisher Street, Park? Terraces, Barking, Essex. (sorry if I have already posted this info)
My question to you very clever people is why would he put born in that location? Did Polly/Mary Ann slip into the hop house to give birth? Did he not live with Polly/Mary Ann? Was she at work when she went into labour? How do I find Duddy's Farm? Any other suggestions?
-
I have transcriptions for Hunton parish register baptisms, but can't find a baptism for Bertha under any combination of names. I thought a baptism for her might give some additional information.
Her birth in June in a hop house seems strange, Hunton is definitely hop country but the hop picking would have been August & September, so perhaps they were there for some other agricultural work?
-
Just to say that we have evidence for the Cork/Cooley family being itinerant farm workers through the 19th century.
Mary Ann Cork/Cooley was with her father and a young baby in the 1881, and her father, Richard Cork, travelled about for work into his 80's.
So quite probably Mary Ann was with him at this farm, and some googling may find out what sort of work was being done on the farm ahead of the hop harvest in September.
-
Meant to add, am at work, but will look at the other detail re Nathan that Goldcrest has posted later.
-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/voices/hartlake/hop_picking.shtml
See this interesting BBC link re gypsy itinerant agricultural workers in the 19th century. Although this refers to Romany gypsies, I think the Corks/Cooleys weren't true Romanies, but merely travellers.
In the history I've found, within the family were hawkers, general dealers, marine store dealers, chair bottomers etc., and Richard Corke (1812, Stone, Kent) seemed to carry out agricultural work, following the requirements of the farming year.
He carried on until he was nearly 80, finally dying of burns when he set fire to himself whilst sleeping (with the farmer's agreement) in a barn, probably during the hop harvest. I've seen where he died, in Otford, Kent, a small town where what struck me most was the number of pubs. I hope that he had a convivial evening, after a hard day's work, and didn't know much about what happened.
In terms of Nathan Evenden and the reference to previously living in Barking, Essex, I wonder if he had travelled in work - after all, the family in 1891 is in Woolwich (on the South side of the Thames, but otherwise not very far away from Barking on the Essex side of the river).
And I expect the family were living in the Hop Barn whilst Nathan was working on the farm. Thomas Duddy apparently was a landowner in Hunton, and although I can't see the farm now, it's not a very large place and therefore you can see country very like where your grandmother was born from google earth.
-
Oh my goodness, poor Richard - I wonder if this is why my mother and grandmother had an obsession with potential fires when going to bed. Have been looking at Hunton history, very interesting. I am attaching a photo of Bertha and her family taken shortly before coming to Australia in 1921, perhaps there is some resemblance to some Cooleys/Corks.
-
Oh my goodness, poor Richard - I wonder if this is why my mother and grandmother had an obsession with potential fires when going to bed.
Well, given that your grandmother was Richard's granddaughter (we think), and would have been 7 or so when the incident happened to her grandfather in 1893 in Otford, Kent, I should think it would certainly leave her with an abiding caution of fires occurring in the bedroom.
I am very keen to try and post the various potential family members on the Photo Recognition Board, to see if the opinion there is that they are of the same family.
I will have to switch to another computer (get me! ;)) to do this, as I don't have a programme on this laptop to cut and paste the ladies' pictures next to each other.
But I think Bertha's eyes are like to Royd's grandmother and great aunt and also to my great grandmother. I don't know if Royd can spot any other family likenesses within the picture you've posted with her own family.
-
Yes I do think there is a likeness. I was also wondering about posting them altogether. I am fortunate in that I have quite a few of my grandmother's siblings photos - I will get them out to scan over the weekend. Maybe we could all post closeups on Monday or Tuesday? It's finding the time that's difficult isn't it?
I had a look on trees on GR to see if anyone on there had the Evendens in their tree. Have been in touch with one who is distantly related by marriage but, he hasn't done any research on them! Will try a couple of others later.
Goldcoast - the traits in my maternal side are music, singing and the Salvation Army. Any hints there?
R.
-
I have music and singing on both sides of the family, I believe, so not much clue there.
And no connection with the Salvation Army at all!
However, can I also just add that we have not satisfactorily concluded the connection with my original post to this thread, in which I was trying to track down my Arthur Frend (or Friend) Cork/Cooley and his family in the 1911. You may recall that the reason that Goldcrest came to this thread is the connection between the name and the address on her grandmother's wedding certificate -
I have Arthur F Cooley and his family in the 1901 at 30 Caroline Street, Chatham, and that is where Bertha was married from. Bertha would have been a cousin of Arthur F Cooley, as she was the daughter of Mary Ann Cooley, his father's sister.
Since the whole family seems to have come to Chatham in the first decade of the new century, from Wrotham (about 16 miles away), where they were in the 1911, perhaps they stayed with their cousins at Caroline Street?
But what happened to Arthur F, his wife Mary A and his son Arthur David?
Whilst we're having so much success with the Cooleys, perhaps I can resolve this issue, too?
I might have to send away for the marriage in (I think) 1904 which Casalguidi found?
Did they emigrate to Australia and could this have been the inspiration for the Reads, later?
-
Sorry about that Igor - we do get so easily sidetracked with this family don't we?
Back to Arthur we go. R.
-
Oh no, no need to stop adding to our Mary Ann Cork/Cooley/Evenden/Bell discussions, just thought we should continue to look out for old Arthur Frend during the search! ;)
-
Back to the Cooleys.......
Browsing through City Ark, I came across the following:
St. John's Chatham.
1874 - Baptism of Charlotte Jane Cooley, daughter of Richard and Charlotte Jane Cooley
(4 Mount, Chatham)
1877 - Baptism of Florence Victoria, daughter of Richard and Charlotte Jane Cooley.
1879 - Baptism of Alice Elizabeth Cooley, daughter of Richard and Charlotte Jane Cooley. But....underneath Charlotte's name, it looks as though the vicar had written Sarah Jo? Cooley but it was crossed out and initalled by him.
I get confused with your Cork/Cooleys but are they yours???
-
Thank you, Royd, that's very kind!
I have a Charlotte Jane Cork - born (and died :() ahead of her parents' marriage, in 1872. But not a later one, as you say, born (or at least baptised) in 1874.
Arthur Friend(Frend) Cork was born and baptised in 1873, again ahead of the marriage.
Charlotte and Richard then married in October 1874, and I have a Phoebe Jane born the same quarter (presumably Charlotte put her foot down at this point!).
Alice Elizabeth in 1879 is also mine, and then David Richard T in 1885.
But I didn't have Florence Victoria either.
So I will have another look for a replacement Charlotte Jane, and the new-to-me Florence Victoria. Where were they in the 1881/1891, then?
Doesn't get simpler, does it. ::)
-
Well, I can't see a replacement Charlotte Jane, and wonder if this is Phoebe Jane, born 1874, with there being a confusion over the baptism record.
And, many thanks, have found little Florence Victoria, who died aged 1.
-
Some information on the Arthur COOLEY who married Ellen TEAGUE 1904 ..............
Arthur COOLEY of 18 Gardener's Buildings, Walker Street, Hull, a butcher, enlisted into the ASC 1 Nov 1915. Discharged 26 Apr 1916 due to chronic bronchitis. Next of kin, Mrs Ellen COOLEY of same addresss, married Chatham RO 16 Jul 1904 (no children listed). Same address on discharge but later changed to 44 Portland Street, Mansfield, Woodhouse. Age 47 on discharge 1916 so born c1869 unless the age was meant for later dates on the form ie. 1919/1920 which would mean bc1873?
Arthur COOLEY death registration Mansfield registration district December quarter 1926 ref. 7b 73 age 53 thus born c1873.
Didn't that Arthur COOLEY on the 1911 census say he'd been married 7 years ???
Casalguidi :)
-
More cousins/confusions... could someone please tell me what City Ark is, I have seen it mentioned a few times.
Thanks
-
Medway Cityark is the website for Medway local studies. They have the orignal C of E parish registers online to view for free (see parish registers online in the left hand menu) http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/
Casalguidi :)
-
Some information on the Arthur COOLEY who married Ellen TEAGUE 1904 ..............
Arthur COOLEY of 18 Gardener's Buildings, Walker Street, Hull, a butcher, enlisted into the ASC 1 Nov 1915. Discharged 26 Apr 1916 due to chronic bronchitis. Next of kin, Mrs Ellen COOLEY of same addresss, married Chatham RO 16 Jul 1904 (no children listed). Same address on discharge but later changed to 44 Portland Street, Mansfield, Woodhouse. Age 47 on discharge 1916 so born c1869 unless the age was meant for later dates on the form ie. 1919/1920 which would mean bc1873?
Arthur COOLEY death registration Mansfield registration district December quarter 1926 ref. 7b 73 age 53 thus born c1873.
Didn't that Arthur COOLEY on the 1911 census say he'd been married 7 years ???
Casalguidi :)
Well, that doesn't sound like my Arthur Frend Cork/Cooley born 1873, very firmly in Chatham, does it. I wish other Cooleys, born elsewhere, and not connected to ours, would keep well out of it. There is enough to worry about with ours.
I am tempted to think that Arthur, "wife" Mary Ann and their son Arthur David Cooley emigrated, or otherwise left the area. Because I can track down all Arthur's siblings, but not them.
And why did Bertha marry from the same address that Arthur lived at? Answering Goldcoast's question, it would definitely have been a rented house, I can't imagine any of the family being wealthy enough to own a house.
Did Arthur and his family emigrate, and this give an idea to Bertha and Arthur Read?
-
Well, that doesn't sound like my Arthur Frend Cork/Cooley born 1873, very firmly in Chatham, does it
Well I thought it could well be him ;D
He was born c1873, if he is the one in the 1911 census then he says he was born Chatham and that he's been married 7 years and, I thought this was the best bit, on one of the census your Arthur is a sausage skin maker (or something to that effect) and the only people I know who make sausages are butchers!
Of course, it may well not be him at all.
Regarding young Arthur David, assuming the 1901 census is correct and that he is the son of Arthur, he may well have lived with a step name if his parents parted company whilst he was a baby and may not have even known any different and especially so if his parents weren't actually married :-\
Casalguidi :)
-
It was the Hull reference that got me, Casalguidi. But I suppose he could have gone there as a butcher or assistant.
Mm. Need to get a different mindset. And the marriage cert. ;)
-
Hello I to am a descendant of Bertha and Arthur Ernest Read, (they were my great grandparents)
I have recently received Bertha Read's death certificate, it states her father being Nathan Cooley and her mother Mary Ann Everden. I have been doing a lot of research on Arthur Ernest Read and have just recently started on Bertha's side. I have read this forum topic, I am slightly confused...sorry
please any one can help me with my search it would be greatly appreciated, unfortunately my grandmother died 11 years ago and there is no one here that knows the family history that can help me.
-
Hi Sluggie, and welcome to Rootschat!
I am at work at present, and can only reply very briefly, but I will try and explain Bertha's heritage more simply for you later on today. ;D
If you are descended from Bertha, you have a cousin on this site in Goldcoast, who should also get a notification that you have added to this thread, and I am fairly certain that Royd and I are also distantly connected.
This is definitely the best site for family history research with families such as the Cork/Cooleys, who seem to have set out to be confusing!
best regards
Igor
-
Hi Sluggie and welcome to the Corke/Cooley madhouse!
I knew someone had posted on a thread on here because I received the notification - but - unfortunately, I can't open the email. I'm having the odd probs with emails at the mo.
I will leave you in the capable hands of IgorStrav who has a fine grasp of the complexities of this very frustrating family.
R. ;D
-
Thanksheaps Igor and Royd,
I showed my mother the images that goldcoast put up on this thread tonight, she has never seen a picture of her grandmother Bertha before, she said her mother looked a bit like her, had similar eyes.
if goldcoast is still around i would love to hear more about the family, and if wanted, i could pass on what information i know
-
Hi Sluggie
Sorry I am slow at responding to your post, work makes weekdays difficult for me. Please tell me which of Bertha and Arthur Ernest Read's children you are descended from! I am Evelyn Bertha's granddaughter so we are of the same generation.
I have only recently sorted some of Bertha Cooley's family all thanks to this wonderful forum. Please read the previous posts carefully to get the picture. Thirty years I went in circles until our cousins IgorStrav and Royd, along with other input helped solve the mystery although I am sure there are other secrets yet to be uncovered.
After making a certain number of posts I think you can pm me and I can give you much more info. If your grandmother died 11 years ago then I may well have met her. In the 1980s a reunion of all the living children of Bertha and Arthur Read was held at Terrigal in NSW and I have some photos from that weekend. Also have a number of other family photos to share.
Looking forward to hearing from you
Goldcoast
-
Right, then Sluggie, let me see if I can make this as clear as I can – you must forgive us, we have been researching this family for some time and they ARE complicated.
For simplicity, I’m going to spell Corke with the e – sometimes it gets left off.
Richard Corke was born in c 1812 in Stone, Kent.
We see him first in the 1861 Census, with wife Jane, and their children. I won’t burden you with all the research, as yet (although I can invite you to see my Ancestry tree, where all the source details are attached), but we discovered a number of children, who (we think!) are:
Sarah (1837, Seal, Kent)
Richard (c 1841, Cudham, Kent)
Jane (1842, Ightham, Kent)
Daniel (1845 – place of birth not certain, but shown on records as Chelsea, Middlesex/Surrey)
James (1848, Reigate, Surrey)
Stephen (1851, Wisley, Surrey)
Eliza (1853, Seal, Kent)
Alice (1859, Seal, Kent)
Mary Ann (1862, Seal, Kent)
Richard’s wife – we can’t find trace of a marriage – was Jane COOLEY (c1820 Chertsey, Surrey).
Now then, you and Goldcoast are descended from Mary Ann, the youngest child, and Royd is descended from one of the other brothers (at least we think he is of the same family) Daniel. I am descended from Richard jnr.
It appears that the family did use the name Corke AND Cooley, as it suited. So it may be that Jane and Richard snr never married.
For example, the eldest daughter, Sarah, married for the first time as Sarah Cooley, with no father quoted. After having been widowed, when she remarried, she gave Richard Corke as her father on the certificate.
And my great great great grandfather Richard Corke married my great great great grandmother as Richard Corke, but when they separated, he married again – bigamously! – giving the name Richard Cooley, and after that his family all changed their name to Cooley.
We have tried for some years to connect Daniel, Royd’s ancestor, to the family, but cannot do so as we do not have them on a census together – although Daniel lives next door to other Corkes in various villages through the censuses. We have been comparing likenesses, and I believe that my great great grandmother, daughter of Richard jnr, looks very like some of Daniel’s daughters, and also bears a resemblance to Bertha. When you have caught up with all this, we’d love to see any pictures you have, or just hear your opinion!
One of the difficulties is that the family travelled in work – they weren’t Romany gypsies, but just itinerant workers, following the agricultural calendar, across county boundaries in Kent and Surrey, but also probably doing such things as hawking goods, repairing chairs etc. So although we know they were in Surrey in March 1851 for the christening of son, Stephen, we can’t find them in the 1851 census which is the only census which would have likely shown all the older children together, with their parents.
Anyway, let’s get back to your ancestor, Mary Ann. She was, as I have shown, youngest daughter of Richard Corke and Jane Cooley, and her mother died (as a complication of childbirth) when Mary Ann was only 5.
Mary Ann is with her father, Richard, and some of her siblings in the 1871 census, and in 1881 is still with him, this time, still unmarried aged 19, with a small son whom I believe was called Joseph Stephen Cork (but I don’t have the certificate to prove if this is the correct birth). And I don’t know what happened to this son.
By the 1891 Census, we think she is with Nathan Evenden, shown as Polly (a common nickname for girls called Mary Ann – I have several in my tree), with two children Albert 8, and Bertha 5.
Then in 1901, the family is in Wrotham, Kent, with son Albert, and other daughters Lizzie and Alice, and small son Arthur.
Now, just briefly to take you back to my own relative, Richard Corke jnr, as you will recall I said he remarried, bigamously, and then called himself Cooley – the family were based in Chatham, and although Richard died in 1896, his son Arthur Frend (Cork)Cooley, was living in Chatham at 30 Caroline Street.
Now I believe that this is where the families start to join back up, and got Goldcrest interested, as this is the address which Bertha COOLEY got married from in 1904.
So, in summary, we believe that
Mary Ann Cork was the daughter of Jane Cooley and Richard Cork, who never married – so she would legally believe herself to be called Mary Ann Cooley as her maiden name.
She lived with, but never married, Nathan Evenden, so all her children would legally be Cooleys.
So her daughter, Bertha, quoted this name on her marriage certificate. However, she didn’t want to seem to be illegitimate and therefore “made up” the name Alfred Cooley as her father.
However, on the birth certificate of Goldcrest’s grandmother, Bertha’s maiden name is shown as Evenden, which was of course the name she was brought up with.
I’ll stop there! It’s probably enough!
If you make a few more posts on Rootschat, I will be able to PM you with my details and if you then give me your email address (don’t post it here), I will invite you to see my family tree which sets this out in all its magnificent confusion.
We have had fabulous help from this site, so I do hope you continue to use and enjoy it.
-
May I just apologise that I continually type Goldcoast as Goldcrest. Doh :-[
-
Even though we have been working on this family for several years, I still feel the need to lie down after reading through it! ;D :o ::) ;D :o ::)
Any info you can share will be received with gratitude. R.
-
Thanks IgorStrav, much easier to understand now putting all info together like that.
Goldcoast...... my grandmother (i called Nana) was Dorothy Kathleen Vivien Foster, nee Read, we too would have meet as i also went to that reunion in the 80's..........remember the incident of a boy that went through the wall??
that was me accidently pushing my older brother and having him fall through the wall! :-[
I meet your grandmother a long time ago (about 25 years), i knew her as "Aunty Eve" also Aunty Gladys was there. We had more to do with their younger sisters Mavis and Audrey.
I have a memory of nana saying there was gypsies in her family
i am going to go through my nana's photos tomarrow see what she has, though i do know she didnt have much at all, i have a war photo of her, will post if wanted
-
IgorStrav you are amazing summarising all that but I too feel like I need a lie down to digest it...
Sluggie, yes we must have met. I don't remember the brother through the wall incident, I was probably trying to control my own three children who were equally kind to each other :-) I do remember that when we arrived in the middle of the night, having driven from Wollongong after working there until midnight, we found an old man with a head wound wandering the carpark and were about to call the police until we saw him in the light and realised he unmistakeably the lone surviving brother. They all looked so alike...
I have three children for Dorothy, is that correct? You need to pm me so I can give you access to my tree as well. If you were born in Sheffield, Tasmania I think I know who you are. I have a lot of photos of the family as Evelyn my grandmother become the other mother and inherited Alice, Syd and Gladys to live with her as well as having her father stay very frequently. Also I have some photos of the reunion. It was quite funny really as my children and their immediate cousins only knew Evelyn as their granny and when we all assemble the first morning they all 'look at all the grannies' as I was quietly trying to shut them up...
I also had the story of gypsies in the family but I think IgorStrav has covered that with itinerant worker. It was such a strong thing from my granny I wonder if they did even think of themselves as gypsies in the broader sense.
Look forward to seeing any pics you have, I can send many more recent ones than I have posted here. Did you see the family pics on, the photo restoration board on rootschat? Some very kind people have done the most amazing things with the family picture of Arthur, Bertha and kids before they left England for Australia. Have a look here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,585182.0.html
Goldcoast or Goldcrest, either is fine by me :D
-
Great to be in touch with another fourth cousin, Sluggie!
I am fascinated by the snippets from your grandparents, Sluggie and Goldcoast, about the "gypsy" connection, and the fact that it seems to have been spoken of as almost Romany type background.
I have already posted somewhere that my great uncle Henry Albert had very distinctive dark curly hair, and a dark complexion, very different from his other siblings, and his grandfather Richard Corke was described, on his entry to the Navy, as swarthy, with dark hair and hazel eyes. My son has also got very distinctive dark extremely curly hair, and hazel eyes. Is this the "gypsy" heritage? Do you have any of this in your family?
Now, Sluggie, what I want to know is whether there is extreme caution in YOUR family about fires in the bedroom?
I see you have now completed your three posts, so that I can send you a personal message. I will give you my email address and if you will give me yours, I will invite you to see the tree.
Please do look at the photograph restoration thread Goldcoast has attached, I think the restoration is great! Is this the same thread where we compare Royd's ancestors, my great grandmother Victoria Adelaide (daughter of Richard Corke jnr), and Bertha(Cork)(Cooley)Everden?
It would be great to share other family pictures to see if any other likenesses emerge?
-
I notice some missed words in my previous post, sorry about that, my brain and fingers aren't always in unison.
Am keen to hear if Sluggie has a fire story...
Could we have Romany heritage? Bertha Cooley had dark wavy hair...
My sister is pretty much dark skinned black hair but we also have Indonesian ancestors many generations back
DNA one day I guess will tell it all...
Goldcrest
-
I'm really looking forward to see any photos Sluggie may have - wouldn't it be great to see a likeness somewhere ? ;D
-
this is a picture of Dorothy Kathleen Vivian Foster, nee Read, one of the five children born in Australia to Bertha and Arthur Read, im not sure now if she does look her mother
-
Dorothy Kathleen Read with her husband Thomas Richard Foster on their wedding day 1947
-
sorry no fire history that we are aware of
my nana....Dorothy had dark wavy hair also
sorry... nana didn't have much pictures, we send what she had. when they left Tasmania to live in Victoria, someone broke into their house and took some things, pictures included!!!
its strange that on Bertha's death certificate it has her father as Nathan Cooley and mother Mary Ann Everden?????? bit backwards, she died from kidney disease.....uraemia, chronic nephritis, acute gastroenteritis
states also she was born in East Mawling Kent England
-
Thank you for the photos, they are very interesting to see. Whilst I can't at the moment think of who they are trundling me of, there is a resemblance which I will have to think about. Beautiful woman!
Re Bertha's death certificate, don't forget the details will have been provided by someone else, who didn't know the facts for certain and may have been confused. What those details indicate is that the informant knew Bertha's father was called Nathan; that her parents hadn't martied( and that she had also been called Evenden. Which is all correct, they just got the names the wrong way round
So sorry there aren't more pictures, must have been great to see Bertha and the whole family!
-
Hilda Emily Ida Read
-
Is this Bessie Margaret Read or May Jeannie Read, my mother thinks its Bessie (she has always thought it was her)
-
They both look like Bertha Read, same almond shaped eyes like Bertha and my grandmother. Their father had very different eyes
-
i have a nathaniel john evenden born to nathan and Mary Ann (polly) evenden birth Abt Mar 1881 Malling, Kent, England
is this right?? found it on Family search
-
Would this be the 14 day old male child in the 1881 census listed as grandson of Richard Corke? I must admit I didn't have this census entry but I am sure you would have IgorStrav. Life gets in the way of adding this stuff at times... He must have died young I think.
Since you are sleuthing Sluggie there is an opportunity for more children for Polly and Nathan between Lizzie 1892 and Arthur 1900. If someone else has these please reveal... I am so confused with this family.
I have an extra day off work this week so will try and get my head organised with this
Goldfinger
-
Ooh, that's interesting! I mentioned before the child on the 1881, and hadn't managed to pin down who he was - I have a possible birth ref, (a Joseph, I believe, without looking it up) but without ordering the certificate couldn't check it was the right one. I do indeed have the census on the tree, if you need to look it up.
If Mary Ann (Polly) was living with her father at the time of the 1881, do we know where Nathan snr was at that Census? I will have a look.
Hadn't thought to have a look at Familysearch, good one, Sluggie, worth a trawl through those, as the Corkes did mostly have their babies christened, even if they didn't much believe in marriage!
-
Just to say, yes, I do have Nathan on the 1881 with his widowed mother in Aylesford, Kent, which is about 7 miles away from Trottiscliffe where Mary Ann (Polly) is with her father, Richard Corke, and the young baby.
I can also see the birth reg of Nathaniel John Evenden in Jan qtr 1881 in Malling, Kent.
Interestingly, can't currently see a death ref for him - I wonder what happens because of course by the 1891 Nathan and Mary Ann (Polly) have Albert Sydney and Bertha with them, but no sign of the earlier child.
-
I see the Familysearch details were submitted, and don't have any sources attached. The same submitter, called djevenden2686098, also has details of Albert Sydney and Bertha but none of the other children. Which is a bit of a mystery.
So there are no christening details for Nathan (which was where I initially thought the information came from). However, the birth reg suggests there WAS such a child, but we have no proof (without the certificate) that our Nathan and Mary Ann were the parents.
Can't see this Nathaniel anywhere else on Ancestry at the moment.
-
If the baby Nathaniel John was Mary Ann and Nathan's child he must have died young as my grandmother talked of all the other children we have identified who grew up. Not sure if I mentioned before that on my scrap of notes she said that Bertha's mother had a baby boy who died young??? Maybe this baby? Her comments have been pretty spot on so far. But there is also an eight year gap between Lizzie and Arthur but maybe there are other reasons for that.
Would love to find someone from this branch of the family in England. Anyone know of a local way to advertise cheaply? There would be family still in Kent I am sure, they were corresponding with my grandmother into the 1980s.
Goldstar
-
Hi Goldcoast/star!
I think we decided that the boy who died young was Arthur - 1900-1905 - perhaps? Which might have been why Bertha's son was with his grandmother and was brought up by her?
I have continued to look for Nathaniel John both under Evenden, Corke and Cooley surnames but no joy for an early death - or, indeed, popping up anywhere else.
I have done a Familysearch for Nathan/Mary Ann parentage births, and Mary Ann 1888 in Maidstone has popped up, as a sourced Christening - which is evidently Marian whose dob we didn't know, and couldn't find a reference for, I think. Perhaps she's registered as Cooley or something, will have another look in a mo. ADDED: found it, under Mary Ann Evenden, Apr qtr 1881 in Maidstone, which is quite right.
Can't see any other children for them in the gap you mention. But there could be some we just can't tell without investing in lots of certificates.
I must apologise that I have currently mislaid in my filing the letters which you kindly sent to me from your family history - will turn them up shortly, very sorry - am sure we can find some family in Kent. Once I have the clues, I will start a bit of a search.
-
I've just created myself an account on FamilySearch, and asked whether it's possible to be in touch with the person who submitted the information that Sluggie found. Their reference suggests that they are an Evenden, and given that not very many children are found it's possible they are only connected peripherally, but you never know.
-
familysearch site has:
Nathan evenden
Event(s)
Birth: Abt Dec 1856
Mereworth, Kent, England
Christening: 8 Apr 1866
Mereworth, Kent, England
Death: Abt Dec 1924 Medway, , Kent, England
Spouse: Polly (AFN: 1WC2-GC0)
Marriage: Abt Mar 1877 Maidstone, , Kent, England
This marriage date would put mary ann at age 16
so maybe if this is true wouldn't some children have been born about 1878-9 or 1880 as Nathaniel was born 1881, maybe Arthur b.1900 was "accidental" as mary ann and nathan would be starting to get on in age by then
if they had 8 children then we are really only looking for one more
-
SORRY just found a 1881 census same site stating nathan unmarried must be living or visting with his mother at time of census, that marriage date was submitted by djevenden
Nathan EVENDEN Household
Male
Other Information:
Birth Year <1857>
Birthplace Aylesford, Kent, England
Age 24
Occupation Ag Lab
Marital Status U <Unmarried>
Head of Household Mary A. EVENDEN
Relation Son
Disability
Source Information:
Dwelling Herne Pound
Census Place Aylesford, Kent, England
Family History Library Film 1341215
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0902 / 54
Page Number 16
Mary A. EVENDEN Household
Female
Other Information:
Birth Year <1822>
Birthplace East Peckham, Kent, England
Age 59
Occupation Ag Lab
Marital Status W <Widowed>
Head of Household Mary A. EVENDEN
Relation Head
Disability
Source Information:
Dwelling Herne Pound
Census Place Aylesford, Kent, England
Family History Library Film 1341215
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0902 / 54
Page Number 16
-
Hi Sluggie
Yes, I have that 1881 entry for Nathan on my tree, have you seen?
Are these Familysearch entries 'submitted'? Because if so, they may be purely guesswork. We need to check and see.
The 'marriage' entry, for example, which says it is a guess is likely to be someone trying to legitimise the family.
A lot of research has already been done, can you see the census and other sources on the tree?
-
Sorry, Sluggie, didn't spot that you did say the earlier entry was submitted by djevenden, so I think must be regarded with a pinch of salt.
However, whilst we don't have any evidence that the submitted entry on FamilySearch for Nathaniel John Evenden born in early 1881 does in fact belong to our Nathan and Mary Ann, there is separate evidence of the birth in the official registration, so the child did in fact exist.
And, as you say, this could be one of the missing, dead, four children shown on the 1911 census. We know that Arthur died in 1905, and that Alice died in 1903, so if Nathaniel is another death - although I can't see the death ref, we are only missing one more.
I did do a search of Evenden births/deaths in the gap between Elizabeth's birth in 1892 and Arthur's in 1900, and came across a possible (would need a certificate to prove it), a Polly Evenden, born Oct 1897 in Maidstone and died April 1900 also in Maidstone.
But more interesting, can I ask for help from anyone still reading through this thread? ::) ::)
Where are the following children of Mary Ann and Nathan in the 1891 and 1901?
In 1891 the family were in Woolwich (10 Rope Yard Buildings), and in 1901 in Claygate Cottage, Wrotham, Kent.
Missing from both the above censuses is:
Mary Ann (sometimes called Marian) Evenden
Baptism 6th June 1888 (birth 9th May 1888) St Peter's Maidstone
From Familysearch.
Birth Ref Mary Ann Evenden, Apr qtr 1888, Maidstone 2a 713
I only have her in the 1911 where she is Marran Bell. She marries as Marian Evenden in 1913.
And missing from the 1891 census is:
Alice Evenden
Baptism 13th March 1890(birth 16 Feb 1890) Woolwich Holy Trinity
Birth ref not yet confirmed.
I have her on the 1901 with her family in Wrotham, and I think she dies in Jan 1903
I cannot see either of them with other family members of her mother - had another good look last night! And I also added some detail to her father Nathan's tree, and his siblings, but couldn't see them there either.
Any suggestions, anyone?
-
If you can't find them with any other family members IgorStrav, it makes me wonder if the enumerator went round omitting very young children from his records??? ???
I looked at the census on FindMyPast and I guess the enumerator may have wanted to be out of the premises as quickly as possible.
R.
-
Yes, Royd, I know what you mean with that Rope Yard Census.
I don't suppose it was the enumerator, but perhaps the Boarding House Keeper just lost count of how many people were in each section of his hovel. Perhaps the two littlest were under the blanket in case he charged more for them......
But even given that, where's Mary Ann/Marian in 1901? She was nearly 13 so I suppose could easily have been out working somewhere ::)
I might have a look in the neighbourhood of Bertha's employer to see if she was near her elder sister.
-
Missing from both the above censuses is:
Mary Ann (sometimes called Marian) Evenden
Baptism 6th June 1888 (birth 9th May 1888) St Peter's Maidstone
From Familysearch.
Birth Ref Mary Ann Evenden, Apr qtr 1888, Maidstone 2a 713
I only have her in the 1911 where she is Marran Bell. She marries as Marian Evenden in 1913.
Possible ???
Mary EVARDEN age 12 born Maidstone a pupil at 26 Bolingbroke Grove, Battersea (a school for the indigent blind) R13/459 folio 173 page 40
Casalguidi :)
-
Well, Casalguidi, I have to say the image looks very like Mary Evenden, and age and pob are good.
I wonder if Goldcoast has any memory of her mother saying her aunt Marian was blind/impaired vision etc?
Of course the column marked INFIRMITY is blocked out in the only other census we have Mary Ann/Marian in, the 1911. She is 22, and doesn't have an occupation in that census.
Added: I had another look myself for every possible combination for Mary in this census, and I really think you've hit on it, Casalguidi :D Thank you!
How fascinating, this family gets more and more complicated and interesting. (And exhausting, Royd ;)
-
Well IgorStrav you sent me looking for my magical scraps of paper... and bingo... my notes say:
Marie (Aunt Polly) Cooley m Hyde (went blind due to operation) lived near Granny and parents at Chatham
Now, I wasn't 100% sure if the blindness referred to Marie or Mr Hyde but I think it must have been Marie.
These gems of information were from my grandmother Evelyn Bertha Read b1907 which I wrote down in the early 1980s.
As I was looking for this piece of paper I came across Sluggie's grandparent's wedding photo with my mother mother (Evelyn Bertha's daughter) in it...
Goldcoast
-
goldcoast if its not too much trouble can I please have a copy of that photo
-
sure Sluggie, I have many photos to send you :)
-
I did do a search of Evenden births/deaths in the gap between Elizabeth's birth in 1892 and Arthur's in 1900, and came across a possible (would need a certificate to prove it), a Polly Evenden, born Oct 1897 in Maidstone and died April 1900 also in Maidstone.
I to found this on familysearch, only problem is father's name: FILO???
but isn't Maidstone not very far from Marden (about 8 miles) where Elizabeth was born in 1892, and Marden not far from Malling where Arthur was born in 1900
coincidence that the baby is called Polly
must say sounds very likely to be the missing child
-
I to found this on familysearch, only problem is father's name: FILO???
but isn't Maidstone not very far from Marden (about 8 miles) where Elizabeth was born in 1892, and Marden not far from Malling where Arthur was born in 1900
coincidence that the baby is called Polly
must say sounds very likely to be the missing child
Polly is the pet name for Mary Ann and she's already been "found" ;)
Casalguidi :)
-
I'm not sure it is the correct child, Sluggie - I just said it was a tempting possibility, given that Mary Ann was known as Polly.
Casalguidi, we're just trying to pin down the 4th child of the "marriage" of Nathan and Mary Ann (Polly) who was dead by the 1911, and I suggested this child's birth which is, as Sluggie says, in the right sort of area.
We'd need a punt on the certificate, but I wouldn't be surprised that wishful thinking proved not to be correct.
Whatever the likelihood, dreadful to have 8 children and lose 4.
Goldcoast and I have subsequently tracked down the family of the daughter of Mary Ann Cork/Cooley/Evenden, Mary Ann/Marian (she of the blind school in the 1901 which you miraculously turned up, Casalguidi) and she also very sadly lost children, including one, we think, at the age of 11 in 1938. Infant mortality isn't confined to the 19th century.
I am consistently reminded how lucky I am to be here.
-
We'd need a punt on the certificate, but I wouldn't be surprised that wishful thinking proved not to be correct.
No, it's not correct. As Sluggie mentions, it is the child of Filo and Mary Ann (baptised Maidstone 7 Oct 1896) http://www.familysearch.org ;)
To refresh our memories, which are the 7 children you have for Nathan and Mary Ann (to save me going all though the back posts) as I could only find 6 quickly ::)
Mary Ann (alive 1911)
Bertha (alive 1911)
Albert Sydney (alive 1911)
Lizzie (alive 1911)
Alice (dec by 1911)
Arthur (dec by 1911)
Casalguidi :)
-
From an old Ancestry post this child probably belonged to Philo or Filo Evenden and Mary see http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=1670&p=localities.britisles.england.ken.general
There is a strong possibility that this branch is related on the Evenden side Sluggie but not relevant to this thread. We have the whole Evenden mess to sort out yet which I fear is equally if not more complicated than this branch. As I said to IgorStrav earlier this week 'Evendens put rabbits to shame in the breeding game' after delving into Nathan Evenden's family and I will keep you informed on anything I find but for this forum let's sort this out first.
Goldcoast
-
We'd need a punt on the certificate, but I wouldn't be surprised that wishful thinking proved not to be correct.
To refresh our memories, which are the 7 children you have for Nathan and Mary Ann (to save me going all though the back posts) as I could only find 6 quickly ::)
Mary Ann (alive 1911)
Bertha (alive 1911)
Albert Sydney (alive 1911)
Lizzie (alive 1911)
Alice (dec by 1911)
Arthur (dec by 1911)
Casalguidi :)
We hypothesised that the Nathaniel Evenden shown on Familysearch on a submitted entry as being the son of Nathan and Mary Ann (Polly) might be right - I found the birth ref (Jan qtr 1881 Malling, Kent) so the child actually exists (although I appreciate that without the certificate it's a guess rather than proven that he belongs to our family).
It's a tempting thought, though, as Mary Ann is with her father Richard Corke in the 1881 with an infant, and this Nathaniel could be him.
Can't, however, find a death for a Nathaniel Evenden/Cork(e)/Cooley between 1881 and 1911.
So this is the seventh child, we think, of the eight, and Sluggie refers to seeking the last one.
Thanks for sorting out Polly born 1897. As I said originally, it was just a tempting possibility, but evidently - as so often - wrong!
-
Don't know if we have seen this before, but here is Arthur's baptism at Malling church.
3 August 1900 Arthur Evenden Nathan Mary Ann West Malling Labourer 16 July 1900
I presume the following are linked in - just posting for interest! :)
2 October 1814 Louisa Evenden James Ann Malling Grocer
18 July 1813 Mary Evenden James Anne Malling Grocer
-
Thanks Royd for Arthur's birth :D
I don't have the two others you mention in my lists - they are not children of Nathan's grandfather Thomas Evenden (b c1795) but James may have been his brother.
I have just started adding the Evendens to my tree using online resources rather than typing in from my reams of paper, a task so daunting it has been left in a box for years... So keep checking the tree Sluggie as it will grow quickly.
Still think that the baby Nathaniel 1881 is Mary Ann and Nathan's, will keeping looking for more info.
Goldcoast
-
Free BMD deaths Mar 1881:
EVENDEN Nathaniel John 0 Malling 2a 344
-
Oh well done. Couldn't see that on Ancestry at all for some reason.
The final child who died will probably have to remain in the mists of time.
-
Hi all,
I just found this forum and interested to read regarding the Corkes and Evendens. I worked years ago on my husbands family tree and his grandmother is Audrey 1914. Her mother was Mary Ann AKA Marian and her mother was Mary Ann AKA Polly. Her mother Mary Ann 1888 was blind and was married to Walter Ambrose Hyde.
If you have any questions let me know. I haven't yet had time to update any information this thread has given yet.
-
Hi Clared - great to hear from someone else researching the Cooley family.
There are a number of people here who are connected to the Cooley/Corke family, and it's great to have another to add.
I think your husband will be my fourth cousin. At least, going by the relationships shown on Ancestry - I didn't work it out myself.
I don't suppose you have any pictures of your husband's family, his grandmother Audrey?
When you find the energy to go through this thread (!) please do tell us if you think anything's wrong, or if you have any more information.
-
Oh, and I should have said - Welcome to Rootschat!
It's a very helpful forum with lots of helpful people, and they have been immensely helpful with this particular family and helped me greatly with my researches ;D
-
Hi Clared
My grandmother, Evelyn Bertha, and your husband's grandmother Audrey were first cousins. Evelyn Bertha's mother was Bertha Evenden born 1886. That makes your husband the same generation as me. Evelyn Bertha, her brother Sidney and probably a number of the older cousins kept in constant contact with Audrey for decades after they came to Australia.
I am so excited to find someone so close to my branch, not just cousin wise but because they kept up the letters for so many years and never forgot their family in England.
As IgorStrav has mentioned it will be great to have your input into the ongoing thread and I am also dying to know if you have any family photos etc
Looking forward to hearing more
-
Hello Clared and welcome both to Rootschat and to this thread. :)
I am part of the Corke/Cooley tribe too, but it's much too convoluted to explain where I fit in. ;D
As Igorstrav has already mentioned, there are several of us who are all connected, and it would be interesting to know what you make of our efforts so far. You will also find links to another thread of ours on Rootschat which goes on for pages and pages - about 4 years of researching I think. You may find that you lose the will to live after a while....... ;D ;) ;D
I think some more Kent records have come on line recently so, who knows, we may find some answers to our long standing queries - of which there are many.
Looking forward to hearing from you soon. R.
-
I would like to say thanks for the welcome from you all. Most of the details you have are the same as mine. I research the family years ago when it wasn't all online. Visiting libraries and archives.
I recall Audrey keeping in touch with Australian family and have notes that say Bertha emigrated to Australia in 1921. Wally her brother was kind enough when he as alive to write up a lot of notes on his family with some details. Audrey died in 1997 and Wally 1998. Wally had said that Sidney the eldest son of Bertha used to push him around in his pushchair. He said Bertha had 15 children. Audreys mother was Mary Ann AKA Marian and she was blind. Her grandmother is down as Mary Ann Corke but Audrey had said she was nicked named Polly but had no idea why. As for the marriage of Mary Ann/Marian to a Bell maybe this is true as I had a feeling she may have done.
Audrey and her brother Wally were both petite and I think her mother from her pictures was also. Both Audrey and her brother had hearing problems. I will attach some photos which I have.
My tree only goes back as far as Richard Corke B. 1813 and Jane Corke and my Evenden family Thomas Evenden b.1795 to Mary ?
-
Mary Ann Evenden
AkA Marian Evenden
-
Hi Clared,
Igorstrav and myself both descend from Richard Cork(e) born 1813.
Igorstrav through Richard's son Richard born 1841, and myself through his son Daniel born 1845.
You can't begin to imagine how long it took us to work it all out though....... ;D
If you follow the various links attached to our threads, you will see that we posted some photos a while ago.
Looking forward to hearing more from you.
R. :)
-
Old thread I know, but I've just come across a David Richard Thomas COOLEY, born 10 May 1885, married 4 July 1917 (Dublin), ex-soldier, served in the Royal irish Constabulary in Co. Cork (Kinsale) 1920-22.
-
Hello Peter
Welcome to this thread. My word, 2013 - we seem to have been researching the Corke family for ever.
I can't remember any direct link to Ireland but I may be wrong. Perhaps one of the other folk interested in this thread can help? Regards R.
-
Hi there - I do have this man in my tree (not at my computer so this is from memory which further confirms Royd's statement that we spent years and years trying to sort them out so that it's engrained in my head).
I think this man is the son of my Richard Cork/Cooley and appears in my tree - thank you for the record I will see if I have it as a source for him.
And just to say that if anyone reading this can find the Cork family in the 1851 census somewhere in Kent or Surrey, Royd and I will fall on your neck with glad cries of joy. (Richard snr, Jane snr, Richard jnr, Sarah, Jane jnr, James, Stephen - travellers)
-
Thank goodness this thread has come up again, my laptop was stolen about 6 months ago and so lost all of my family tree work, I have to start it all over again.... not good at all
-
David Cooley married an Anne Gallagher. I don't think I can add more than that (apart from his very limited service record) but happy to have added a little more info for you all.