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General => Technical Help => Topic started by: jmp on Saturday 15 October 11 00:33 BST (UK)

Title: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: jmp on Saturday 15 October 11 00:33 BST (UK)
Hi all, well having got a nice new aerial, I am now in the position to get Freeview at last. Our region doesnt go digital until next April along with London, but the aerial is now picking up the digital signals anyway, sooo, for someone who hasnt got a clue what to do next, I need a bit of advice please.

At the moment I have a bog standard analogue TV, as I understand it I can just get a Freeview box and plug it in and away I go, but I also want to be able to record as I understand video isn't supported. So what should I watch out for, and also can you get just a recorder of some description to record onto DVD because it occurs to me that if I get Freeview box and recorder combined then if something goes wrong with it or I upgrade it in due course then I lose all the recordings stored on the harddrive. I like to keep films and some series for sometime so a bit like video I would like to keep them seperate on some sort of removable disc if at all possible.

Also I assume that I will need a freeview box for the TV upstairs as well as downstairs and I wont be able to access the recorded programmes on the machine downstairs from the upstairs TV direct is that correct ?.

I know these are really silly questions and I have googled quite a bit but am now getting myself confused, so any help in simple terms would be very gratefully received. 

Many thanks
Jackie :D

PS I am not bothered about HD as I believe I would need a whole new TV for this.
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: c-side on Saturday 15 October 11 01:13 BST (UK)
Hi Jackie,

I'm no techie either but I do have a freeview box/digital recorder and I couldn't be without it.

If you go down this road it should have twin tuners so that you can record one programme while watching another or record two together while you are out.  There's masses of storage space so it's easy to hold onto things for some time.  Mine allows folders to put different types of recordings in so they're easier to find.  Maybe they all do that.  Some but not all have a usb port to download recordings too.

Usually they also have the facility to pause live TV or to rewind and watch something again if you missed a bit!  All clever stuff.

I could be wrong but I don't think you can record onto DVD any more than you can to video unless the TV has built in freeview.  No doubt someone who knows more will confirm/deny this.

Hope this helps

Christine
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: jmp on Saturday 15 October 11 01:21 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Christine. Twin Tuner I will look out for, this is the sort of thing I need explained to me in words of one syllable  ;D ;D I didnt know that about USB ports either, so presumably you can record on a USB stick and then convert to DVD via your computer ( if I can figure out how to do that too  ;D ;D ;D ;D)

Thanks again
Jackie  ;)
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: andycand on Saturday 15 October 11 01:36 BST (UK)
Hi

If you want to record in one location and watch in another you need a DVD Recorder that records to individual disks and not a harddrive. I've got an LG Recorder that does this but you would need to check what is available in your location (I'm in Australia)

Assuming that what we call a Set top Box is the same as Freeview Box then the way you connect it all up is from antenna to Freeview Box, then you connect the Freeview Box to your DVD Recorder and then your DVD Recorder to your TV. That is a brief description of how you do it. You would need a seperate Freeview Box and DVD Recorder for each location you wish to record in. We have this type of setup in 3 rooms in our house and often record things in one room to watch in another. For example my son follows car racing so might record Nascar overnight in the lounge and an Indy Car race in his bedroom.

Andy
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: c-side on Saturday 15 October 11 01:53 BST (UK)
We used to call them set top boxes too, Andy, but the seem to have been renamed along the way!

You're right, of course, about the DVD set up - I do have one in another room but rarely if ever record to it because it will only record the channel which is showing on the TV and that seems to defeat the object somehow - for me at least.

USB port - you can't record to it Jackie but you can download stuff recorded on the hard drive and then copy it to computer and then put it on a DVD.

Christine
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: jksdelver on Saturday 15 October 11 07:10 BST (UK)
Look up the Humax range
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: PaulineJ on Saturday 15 October 11 09:49 BST (UK)
Yup, we've got Humax.

We have one PVR (freeview + hard disk ) in one room and a Humax "HD-Fox t2" which allows us to watch programmes recorded on the first hard drive in another room, (over the ethernet). The T2 will also decode from aerial (and save to a memory stick).

Pauline
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: mshrmh on Saturday 15 October 11 10:54 BST (UK)
Jackie - I'm someone who has gone through the digital changeover and retained an analogue TV until recently. We've had a Humax PVR for around 4 years now with no problems whatsoever & have many family & friends who have the same or more recent models also without problem (no I'm not an employee or on commission) so I think reliability is unlikely to be an issue.

We've got to the stage that we rarely watch "live" TV  - we record most things and whizz through the adverts & the endless "coming up" and "reminders" of what you saw a few minutes earlier so that a commercial TV station hour programme takes around 40 minutes and a BBC one 50-55 minutes.

The twin tuners mean you can record two different programmes at the same time and have the chance of watching a third (depends on the "multiplex" the various stations are on) - this and the "+1" variations on some station are great for those times when there are several programmes on you want to watch, but all at the same time (and nothing else all evening often).

I'm not sure if I've understood correctly, but if you have a VCR you may still be able to record Freeview on it - you need it to take the feed from the Freeview box so it depends on the settings/connections you have (I know we did this but it was several years ago before the Humax).

We're a single TV household so I can't comment on that issue.
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: jmp on Saturday 15 October 11 11:06 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone for your comments so far, I think I am getting the drift. I have to pop out now though as Sis and I are going to the crematorium to put some flowers on Mums grave, she would have been 94 today, so will read through everything carefully when I get back this evening and come back to you, if I may, with any queries once I have done some surfing of the net about those various products ;D

Have a nice day all and thanks again for your help ;)
Jackie
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: sstarr2008 on Saturday 15 October 11 12:56 BST (UK)
My son has a tv with built in freeview which can record to a usb memory stick. The recordings are stored as .TS files which are the same as a DVD so can be played back on a pc.
You can buy freeview boxes which will record to a usb stick which work in the same way, they are cheaper than the freeview recorders which use hard drives.

If you had identical boxes on all your tv sets then you could playback the recordings on any box by moving the usb stick.
You could also save the recordings to disk using your pc.

Stu
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: tofgem on Saturday 15 October 11 13:56 BST (UK)
I had to jump in and have a rant. Please forgive me.
My television is 24 years old and works perfectly. However, on digital switchover in Feb/March I will have to buy a new set (I have no scart socket for a Freeview box and whatever the alternative cable is, it is unlikley that it will work and the only way to find out is to buy one, plus box and try). I will also have to buy a new aerial as mine will not receive the digital signals. In addition I will have to purchase a new piece of furniture on which to put this new television. The present one sits on its own stand. I really object to being forced to spend a lot of money I cannot afford for something which I will not use very much. In addition my parents who are in their 90s will have to buy a new set for the bedroom - theirs is older than mine and still works perfectly. They already have a digital set in the living room, but on switchover their VHS recorder will not work - it does not work on digital now. I think that it is totally unfair to force us to spend money. I also object to having to pay for a television licence for something I hardly ever use.
Rant over, but is my family really that unusual?
(I'll also have to take the old set to the tip - more expense!!!!!!!!)
Tofgem
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: mshrmh on Saturday 15 October 11 15:21 BST (UK)
Tofgem - our old freeview "set-top box" connected to the TV via the aerial socket (aerial from wall into box; similar lead to TV) - are these types of boxes no longer available? It may be that someone who now has a digital TV has one tucked away if they are not.

Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Saturday 15 October 11 16:56 BST (UK)
My vote is for the Humax too - the easiest one to use.

Tofgem - I think 24 years is pretty good for a TV - it can't go on for much longer, and I hate to think how much more power it is using, compared to a modern TV.  There aren't too many boxes with an RF modulator for use with old Tvs, because in a year or two there won't be any TV's made with an analogue tuner.  Try Googling for the kenable Triax TR-105 Digital Freeview TV Receiver with RF Modulator - this will work on your old TV, and at £26 it's not too bad, or the LABGEAR FV400 at £37.99.  A new aerial for Freeview shouldn't cost more than £100, but installations vary with cable length and routing.
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: jmp on Sunday 16 October 11 00:33 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone for all those comments and yes I am browsing the Humax range which look very good ;) I will take my time and not just dive into a shop or on ebay to buy one without figuring out what I want/need  ;)

I will also add a bit about cost of a new aerial if I may for Tofgem. I had to have a new one as mine was completely ........ :o :o :o so even if we had remained on analogue I would have needed one. My area is one which has a dodgy signal at the best of times, we have never been able to recieve Channel 5 in this neck of the woods. I think if you can recieve channel 5 and you havent got a snowy picture then your aerial is probably ok for digital. I got a reliable and recommended local firm who know the local difficulties to fit it and they did this yesterday so up todate pricing. But I still had to pay over £250 for an aerial. To break it down, £45 for the aerial itself, £35 for a new 10ft mast ( you may or may not need a new mast), £45 for a Masthead amplifier, £25 for a power supply unit ( as I also had a new point put in upstairs so you may not need this) £55 for call out and 1 hours labour ( although he took about an hour and half he only charged me for one)  and 50p per metre for cabling ( again yours might be less) total 215.00 plus VAT £45 = £258. Now it might be better to go for a Satellite dish, but again I guess it depends on your signal and if you are like me and cant stand the look of them then you would probably go for an aerial. Also I believe that Freesat equipment is more expensive than Freeview via an aerial, so it seemed a bit swings and roundabouts. 

Don't forget though Tofgem that for your parents especially they will be entitled to the "help to switch" scheme that is being run, so it may be well worth while contacting them on their behalf to help with the upgrade of any aerial and putting in a set top box. As I understand it the cost of any new aerial and the set top box are included for I think £40 or thereabouts ;)

But like Tofgem I am a bit reluctant to chuck my old TV's a) because of the expense of replacing everything at once and  b) now I have a new aerial the picture is every bit as good as my families all singing and dancing digital TVs, or at least I think so and that is all that really matters isn't it ;) ;) ;)

So good luck Tofgem I hope that you can find the product that Nick recommended and it works with your machine. I agree with everything you say  ;D ;D

Cheers
Jackie :D

Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Sunday 16 October 11 10:25 BST (UK)
I would strongly advise against putting a mast-head aerial amplifier on a TV pre-switch-over.   I can tell you this from bitter experience.  Aerial amplifiers will do little for digital TV reception, and may actually make it worse (as one did with me). A good aerial installer will know this, and should talk you out of fitting a mast-head amplifier.  You may however, benefit from a distribution amplifier elsewhere in the house, if you are feeding two or more TV's, in a position where it can be reached without a big ladder.

The problem with digital TV from its introduction was that the Freeview channels had to be wedged in to an already very crowded TV spectrum.  Even the Channel 5 signal had to be on 2 channel numbers only, with powers drastically reduced, to avoid interference in adjacent TV areas.  When digital TV came along, they had to find a way of introducing the digitally encoded signals (which typically occupy anything between 5 and 8 analogue channels) without causing interference with analogue TV in other areas.  Again, the power of the digital signals had to be kept quite low.

Now, on the day of the digital switchover (actually it may be two days), when all the analogue channels are switched off in your area, some of the Freeview stations will move to occupy the frequencies which were used by the analogue channels and, they will have their transmitter powers increased by up to a factor of 10 because they already know that these channels won't cause interference in other areas.

Now, this is what caused me the problems.  On the day of our full switchover (ours happened over 2 days), I re-tuned the Freeview for the second time (I have a Panasonic Viera with Freeview and Freesat built in), and I was keen to see what Freeview HD looked like, but when I flicked through the channels, suddenly the TV became totally unresponsive to the remote, and remained like that for at least 30 seconds, then there was a click from inside, and the TV reset itself, and then it went into a loop like that.  I found that 'normal' operation of the TV could be restored on Freesat if I pulled the aerial plug out.

I phoned the Panasonic helpline, and they told me that the problem was caused because my Freeview signals were too strong, and were overloading the TV.  This was not harmful, but it did cause the unusual behaviour.  They advised me to get an attenuator, which fits into the aerial socket on the TV, and the aerial plugs into that.  My Freeview reception had been OK before, but now I had 3 Freeview 'channels' which were 9 times more powerful than they were pre-switchover.  Fitting the attenuator fixed the problem (well, at least for now, because the story isn't completely finished !).

So, when the switchover is complete, you will have 3 or 4 strong Freeview channels, and another 3 or 4 that are still on reduced power, and if you are in a bad area, you may not be able to get all the Freeview channels (yet), but these will only be the more minor channels.  Now, when all the analogue channels in the country have been switched off, all the Freeview channels which were on low power until now will be increased in power (that will be sometime in 2013).  When that happens, channel numbers will change again, and a Freeview re-tune will be required again.

I hope you've followed all that - it is a bit technical, I know  ;)
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: jksdelver on Sunday 16 October 11 10:39 BST (UK)
In my case Nick I had a 'booster ' on one of my TV's to get a good signal (on some of the channels) even though it was a digital TV. Anyway since the switch over I no longer need this
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Sunday 16 October 11 13:25 BST (UK)
There's a really good website with lots of information about Freeview switchover and retuning dates, with its own resident expert who replies to problem posts ....... http://www.ukfree.tv/transmittersmenu.php
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: jmp on Sunday 16 October 11 13:48 BST (UK)
Thanks Nick about the comment on the masthead amplifier. I know that everyone in this area has to have one to recieve channel 5, but I will bear in mind it might cause a problem in the future and if so I will know what is causing the problem ;) ;)
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Sunday 16 October 11 13:55 BST (UK)
Some Freeview boxes are better than others when it comes to signal strength.  I have a Humax Freeview+ box for recording purposes, and it's quite happy to work with the signal strength that makes the Panasonic TV go on the blink.  The problem with having a mast-head amplifier is that you'll have to pay again to have it removed, if it causes any problems, whereas a distribution amplifier in a loft or cupboard will be much more easily accessible.

If the aerial installation is old, you will need both the aerial and the cable replaced, because the older cables used to pick up ignition interference from passing cars, which only caused white dots on the picture on an analogue TV, but which will wipe out reception on Freeview.

Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Birtle on Sunday 16 October 11 15:05 BST (UK)
Ditto the votes for Humax. The freeview model that I have (some years old now so little point in saying which one it is) allows recording from 2 channels whilst watching a 3rd (in ideal circumstances - there are some limitations), or record 2 and watch something already recorded with no problem. My model allows approx 100hrs of recording, if I recall aright.
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: km1971 on Sunday 16 October 11 20:37 BST (UK)
If you do a lot of recording you can buy a DVD recorder with built in Freeview and keep your old TV. You need to get Freeview Plus if you want to watch one Freeview channel and record another at the same time, if that is important to you.

How old is your 'analogue' TV. I bought one in 1999 and it was also digital with built in Freeview. You need to see what stickers your TV has on it. If it is really old I would suggest a new TV - as it will probably pay for itself in 18 months from the electricity saved. And you will not need a Freeview box. Get one with a PC monitor mode so you can view iPlayer recordings in the living room if you have a laptop. With series record on iPlayer you may decide you do not need to record anything via the aerial. Everyones requirements are different.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/TechnologyInYourHome/DigitalTelevision/DG_10030984

Ken
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: tofgem on Monday 17 October 11 16:39 BST (UK)
I've just read all the comments with interest. I do not intend to do anything until I have to. I can easily  manage without watching television, hence my annoyance at having to spend a fortune. I know that I will have to have a new aerial, despite having good analogue reception for 4 stations (we have never been able to receive channel 5), as everyone else in the road has had to replace their aerials.
Again, thanks for the advice. I'll take note when I lose my signal.
Tofgem
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Monday 17 October 11 17:27 BST (UK)
You'll find that you'll start getting 'reminders' on your local BBC channels about 3 months before.  I wouldn't leave it too long, if I were you, because aerial installers will get very busy in the area in the run up to changeover.
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: tofgem on Monday 17 October 11 17:46 BST (UK)
I've already had the reminders - very annoying considering I don't watch television very often. If switchover isn't until February/March, why is my viewing being disrupted now?  >:( >:( >:(
I'm not bothered about having to wait. I am bothered about having to find the wherewithall to pay for it all >:( >:( >:(
Tofgem
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Tuesday 18 October 11 08:55 BST (UK)
I could answer that question, but people would complain that it was political  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: jmp on Wednesday 19 October 11 01:06 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone for your replies, all the information has been very useful. I am busy browsing even as we speak  :D
Cheers
Jackie
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: larkspur on Thursday 03 November 11 14:19 GMT (UK)
Please be gentle with me as Iam a complete dunce where this is concerned....
We have Sky + box with satelite dish, and as previously stated we have changed our viewing. Watching when we want to and not when the thing is on.
Iam fed up with Sky and would like to know if I purchase a Freesat + box, could I run it with the Sky dish already on our wall, or would I need a new dish or different leads etc.
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Thursday 03 November 11 15:40 GMT (UK)
You can run a Freesat+ box from your Sky dish with no problems at all, except of course your choice of programmes will be not the same as the ones you get on Sky (you'll only get the 'Free To Air' channels)  :)

You'll find that the FoxSat Freesat+ box is the nearest thing that you'll get to a Sky box.
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: larkspur on Thursday 03 November 11 16:53 GMT (UK)
Many thanks Nick, we don't watch half of the programmes anyway, so no loss there!
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: jmp on Thursday 03 November 11 17:17 GMT (UK)
Can I just ask another question please?

How much memory does a typical one hour programme take up? I am wondering what size harddrive I need to record various things
Many thanks
Jackie :D
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Friday 04 November 11 10:29 GMT (UK)
It depends on whether the recording is in HD or in 'standard definition'.   The Humax Foxsat HDR box with a 500GB drive will record about 250 hours of standard defintion, or 125 hours of HD programs.  You'll most likely to get a mix of both, but these figures will give you a rough idea.  You can now also get a verson of the box with a 1TB drive which will give double those figures.  Some stores (e.g. Argos) also seem to be selling the older 320GB drive model, so be careful about what you're buying if you go for the Humax.

There is also a USB socket on the Humax boxes which allow the connection of a USB hard drive, and you can transfer programs from the box's internal hard drive to the external USB drive for archiving purposes.
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: jmp on Friday 04 November 11 11:45 GMT (UK)
Thanks Nick, that really is helpful

Best wishes
Jackie :D
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Jean McGurn on Saturday 25 February 12 10:28 GMT (UK)
My area is about to start the change-over and do the first re-tune next week.

As I have a Freeview+ box set top box connected to my TV which also has Freeview will I have to re-tune both the set top box AND the TV or just the box?

I presume I will lose any recordings on the box as well?

 
Jean
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: mshrmh on Saturday 25 February 12 11:18 GMT (UK)
Jean - you need to re-tune each Freeview device.

You won't lose any recordings but what you may need to do is to reset anything you've scheduled to record after the time you've done the re-tune.

When we were going through this I used to have a written list of programmes set (sad I know) as we record most things & watch the recorded version to skip the adverts, trailers & the endless "coming-up/reminder of what we've shown you" bits. I seem to recall we had a few re-tunes quite close together so the written list was handy.
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: [Ray] on Saturday 25 February 12 11:24 GMT (UK)
Hi

Sounds like you are recording to the separate box,
so "yes" to the re-tune box query.

Also sounds like you have the capability to watch a different channel on the tv while the box is recording another,
so "yes" to the re-tune tv query.

Will the separate box erase old recordings?
As long as you are only re-tuning the incoming signal, then it should not erase recordings.
(Double check the box's manual)

You could always re-tune either now as practice, channels are being added/lost "all the time".

Ray
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Jean McGurn on Saturday 25 February 12 11:42 GMT (UK)
Thought I might have to re-tune both but wasn't sure as I don't use the TV on it's own.

My top box can record two programmes at the same time and it also does automatic adding of new channels. When you turn the TV and Box on you get the channel list up each time - which is handy because you can see what's on each.

I have noticed that channels have been added to what there was when I originally set the box up, even gives me Sky Sports 1 & 2 even though I haven't got Sky. Don't think I can access though.

Love the idea of a list, think I will do one as I have quite a few series currently programmed to record.

Many thanks for your replies

Jean
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: mshrmh on Saturday 25 February 12 13:37 GMT (UK)
Jean - it's good that you're automatically getting new channels added - like you we get listed those we can't actually get - if you pick that channel you either get a black screen or a message.

IIRC the re-tune will pick up all current channels (occasionally some disappear as well as new ones appearing), name changes (eg Sky 3 to PickTV on Freeview a few months back) and more rarely number shuffles. As the analogue signal is switched off Freeview ones get stronger so you may get more channels or more copies of the same one if you're within reach of more than one transmitter. I know some people who can get Channel 4 and S4C (the Welsh version) and others who can get ITV northwest (ex Granada) and midlands . On ours if we have two versions we find the second is numbered in the 800s (eg 1 & 801 for BBC1).
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Sunday 26 February 12 10:31 GMT (UK)
Jean - it's good that you're automatically getting new channels added - like you we get listed those we can't actually get - if you pick that channel you either get a black screen or a message.


If you have an aerial which was previously installed for analogue TV, then there may be channels that you will never get unless you have the aerial renewed  :-\
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: mshrmh on Sunday 26 February 12 10:50 GMT (UK)
If you have an aerial which was previously installed for analogue TV, then there may be channels that you will never get unless you have the aerial renewed  :-\

Nick29 - the ones listed that we can't actually see are ones, as Jean has mentioned, like Sky Sport for which we don't have a subscription, rather than because of an inadequate signal.

You can check what stations you can theoretically receive at:
http://www.freeview.co.uk/availability

Post-switchover we can receive all those suggested on our 20+ year old aerial without problem (plus a few duplicates). I think, in general, in this area we get a good signal - I've not heard of anyone needing to change aerial  around here. The strength of the Freeview signal is supposed to increase when the analogue is turned off in each area so if anything is being missed it may be worth waiting & seeing what happens unless you're desperate for some particular station.
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Jean McGurn on Sunday 26 February 12 11:05 GMT (UK)
 Had to re-new the aerial  just over a year ago.

 I could get freeview channels before the aerial decided to nose dive down the roof and when the new one was erected I found a couple of channels that used to break up sometimes, didn't anymore however when I got the freeview+ box I found I could get even more channels but put it down to the new box either being superior  or more channels were giving a stronger signal :)

As for the changeover it seems that on Wednesday my area will not be able to bet BBC2 on analogue and the message that comes up on my TV recommends re-tune TV or top box on or after the 29th but it doesn't say both so I will hedge my bets and do them both.

I shall unplug the top box and re-tune the TV then reconnect the top box and re-tune that.

Jean
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Jean McGurn on Sunday 26 February 12 11:09 GMT (UK)
You can check what stations you can theoretically receive at:
http://www.freeview.co.uk/availability

Thanks for the link, I now know why there are some channels still not available such as Dave and Yesterday. It confirmed which transmitter I also use and after the switchover these channels will be available. Can't wait  ;D

Jean
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: c-side on Monday 27 February 12 01:58 GMT (UK)
I shall unplug the top box and re-tune the TV then reconnect the top box and re-tune that.

Jean

You shouldn't need to disconnect, Jean.  I've retuned mine (both TV and freeview recorder) several times with the coming of the +1 channels and others.  I just do one and then the other.

Christine
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Jean McGurn on Monday 27 February 12 04:44 GMT (UK)
How do you re-tune the TV if the aerial is connected to the box? Do I just turn the box off?

Jean
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: japeflakes on Monday 27 February 12 08:24 GMT (UK)
I am not in your area and I use Freesat, but when my area changed over "Age UK" arranged help centres to answer your questions and also there were numbers to ring in the leaflets through the door. Probably no help, but...
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Monday 27 February 12 12:06 GMT (UK)
Had to re-new the aerial  just over a year ago.

 I could get freeview channels before the aerial decided to nose dive down the roof and when the new one was erected I found a couple of channels that used to break up sometimes, didn't anymore however when I got the freeview+ box I found I could get even more channels but put it down to the new box either being superior  or more channels were giving a stronger signal :)

As for the changeover it seems that on Wednesday my area will not be able to bet BBC2 on analogue and the message that comes up on my TV recommends re-tune TV or top box on or after the 29th but it doesn't say both so I will hedge my bets and do them both.

I shall unplug the top box and re-tune the TV then reconnect the top box and re-tune that.

Jean

What happens on Day 1 of switch-over is that the BBC2 analogue transmitter is switched off, and is replaced (later on in the day) with a digital channel on the same frequency which supplies the digital versions of the major channels.  On Day 2 (which may or may not be the day after Day 1), the other three analogue channels will become digital transmitters, one of them supplying BBCHD, BBC1 HD, ITV HD and a couple of others.  At the same time the existing Freeview channels will have their powers increased, but probably still won't be anywhere near as strong as the digital versions of the old analogue transmitters.

Problems can occur, especially if a mast head aerial amplifier is being used, but this will also depend on the equipment being fed from it.  My Humax Freeview+ box likes strong signals, and it handled the change-over very well.  However, the Humax is also linked through to a Panasonic Viera TV, and this does not like the strong signals being looped in from the Humax, and I've had to fit an attenuator to cut down the signals entering the Panasonic.  On the day of the switch-over here, the behaviour of the Panasonic Viera made me think that there was a problem with the set, because (when confronted with a signal that is too strong), the TV will continually reset, which looks like it is switching itself off and on repeatedly (although this isn't actually the case).

It really doesn't matter how many times you retune the Freeview box, but what does matter is that during the change-over week, you do a complete channel reset, and not just a channel update. 
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Jean McGurn on Wednesday 29 February 12 15:17 GMT (UK)
Just to update as the 29th is here.

As I go to work at 04-30 I am up around 03-30 so I usually have the BBC News channel on whilst getting ready for work. No signal for any channels this morning so tried to update both TV and box. They both updated but no BBC1, BBC2 or BBC News although I could get BBC Parliament.

Spent most of day thinking that the new aerial wasn't digital but when I got home I checked the instructions for the TV and started again. Outcome is I have now got the missing channels from this morning.

Moral I suppose is check your manual to see how to do it properly but don't do it before the birds have got up  ;D ;D ;D


Jean
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: c-side on Wednesday 29 February 12 22:10 GMT (UK)
Glad it worked Jean.  We still haven't had the changeover - I think we are last on the list later this year.

Thanks for the tip on the Panasonic Viera, Nick.  I have one of those so am now forewarned for when it's my turn!

Christine
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: mshrmh on Thursday 01 March 12 10:57 GMT (UK)
Jean - good to see it worked out for you eventually - not a case of the early bird..!
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: groom on Thursday 01 March 12 11:39 GMT (UK)
I was listening to a radio programme yesterday where they were saying some people were being conned into buying a digital aerial, whereas actually there is no such thing. Most people will be able to receive the new service through their existing aerial.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/how_do_i_switch/your_aerial

Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Friday 02 March 12 10:12 GMT (UK)
I was listening to a radio programme yesterday where they were saying some people were being conned into buying a digital aerial, whereas actually there is no such thing. Most people will be able to receive the new service through their existing aerial.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/how_do_i_switch/your_aerial




Yes and no  :)

TV aerials work best when they are 'tuned' - they are more efficient, working over a range of frequencies.  In the early days of UHF (625 line) TV reception, the tuners used in TVs tended to be rather 'deaf', so it was a good idea to use a tuned aerial to squeeze the maximum amount of signal from the system.  So, wherever possible, the frequencies for the 3 (and later 4) channels were spaced together. 

For instance, in London, the channels for the 4 stations were 23, 26, 30 and 33.  For the optimum reception of TV signals in London, a 'Group A' aerial was recommended, and this aerial worked best between channels 21 and 36.  There were some exceptions to the channel grouping, but this is mainly how it worked.  A lot of care was taken with the choice of channels in each TV area, to make sure that the transmitters in one area did not interfere with another.

When digital TV was introduced, again a lot of care had to be taken to ensure that the new digital transmitters did not interfere with those already on air, and the power of the digital transmitters was reduced to combat this.  Unfortunately, with the introduction of digital TV, channel grouping went out of the window, but by then the improvements in TV tuner design meant that aerial tuning was not a big deal any more, and so 'wideband' aerials were routinely installed (Group W), which had a reasonable performance over the entire 21 - 68 band.  If your aerial was installed in the last 10 years, chances are that it is a wideband aerial.

One more thing.....  since its inception, TV reception has been blighted by interference from the ignition systems of passing petrol vehicles.  On early TVs, this interference showed up as a number of white dots on the picture, but later on, the electronics turned the white dots into black dots, which were less annoying.  Unfortunately with digital TV, bad ignition interference can cause the picture to 'break up', or for reception to stop completely.  To combat this, most post-digital aerial installations have used a special type of cable which incorporates an additional copper foil shield which stops the aerial cable picking up this interference, so as long as the aerial is high enough and far enough from the street, it isn't usually a problem.

So, if you have an old TV aerial which is not wideband, and does not have cable with an additional copper shield inside, your reception may not be all it could be  ;)

Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: tofgem on Wednesday 07 March 12 16:12 GMT (UK)
I had to give in and buy a new TV (plus stand) and was amazed when my current aerial picked up all the programmes I asked it to; both digital and analogue.
However, today is switchover day 1 and it has been completed for my transmitter. I retuned the TV and although BBC1 and 2 have good signals, ITV, Channel 4 and 5 do not. They were fine before.  Is this normal? Should I want to view them I will use analogue until changeover day 2, but obviously after that I will not be able to.
I was under the impression that after changeover day 2 the signals would become stronger, but I have not heard anything about digital signals becoming weaker after changeover day 1.
Has anyone had a similar experience?
Tofgem
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Nick29 on Thursday 15 March 12 13:10 GMT (UK)
I advise that you go to http://www.ukfree.tv/transmittersmenu.php

They have lots of information and advice
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: tofgem on Monday 19 March 12 16:55 GMT (UK)
Thanks Nick
I'll wait until changeover day 2 which is Wednesday this week and then reassess the situation.
Tofgem
Title: Re: Freeview boxes and recorders for the uninitiated
Post by: Calverley Lad on Monday 19 March 12 21:19 GMT (UK)
After going through the changeover myself, the recommended method is as you have done.
Retune as to continue watching then retune on day 2 of second switch.
You will be surprised on the difference (for the better).
 Brian