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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: tdp3360 on Wednesday 19 October 11 11:27 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know the true story of the Bentham millions,I remember my father telling me that one relative lost all his money trying to get hold of this fortune or a share in it i believe it was 20-30million pounds back in the 1930's or around that time.
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There is some information on this discussion thread:-
http://boards.ancestry.com.au/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=20&p=surnames.bentham
Mentions some newspaper articles and a will so perhaps if tried to track those down they might hold some clues. I would also suggest you either visit or contact Lancashire Record Office too - it re-opens later this month.
Luzzu
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Thank you for your quick reply,I've just finished looking at the thread you posted,it look's like it's true about a lost fortune,it also look's like nobody will get their hand's on it,they are now saying it's in the billions and held in trust or something.
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I have been reading an exert from sir roger bradshaighs will and its interesting. He makes special provision with regard to his sister katherine who he states is" living with me blacks" yes folks that is where we should focus our attention. The blacksmith was a bentham and the cover up began right there. They even cover up that she got married and destroyed all marriage certificates. I have spent 30 years researching this only to be frustrated by desecrated parish records and even headstones destroyed. Dna will finally prove our rightful claim. The story of the the lady and the blacksmith will never die as long as I am alive.
Capital letters , edited.
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I have been reading an exert from sir roger bradshaighs will and its interesting. He makes special provision with regard to his sister katherine who he states is" living with me blacks" yes folks that is where we should focus our attention. The blacksmith was a bentham and the cover up began right there. They even cover up that she got married and destroyed all marriage certificates. I have spent 30 years researching this only to be frustrated by desecrated parish records and even headstones destroyed. Dna will finally prove our rightful claim. The story of the the lady and the blacksmith will never die as long as I am alive.
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I am rather intrigued by your post, but the writing in capitals does not,
are you talking about Katherine Bentham
first daughter of Ernest and Margaret
born 27th Feb 1912
baptised St Wilfrid Standish on the 20th March 1912,
fathers occupation ,cattle dealer
abode Broomfield House Standish,
parents Ernest and Margaret Latham,married 1907 who's father Thomas Latham was a colliery proprietor
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you state marriage details and church records have been destroyed yet I can see plenty of records for the Benthams of Standish ,which one's are lost please
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All Saints Wigan
30th October 1808
John Bentham of Haigh, (x)
Catherine Bradshaw of Haigh (x)
witness to marriage ,Wm Bancks and Ruth Birch
==============================
St Wilfrid Standish
Ellen baptised 1st Jan 1809
John baptised 10th August 1812
Margaret baptised 22nd Jan 1815
=====================
huge jump but possibly they are born to an older mother
Mary Ann Bentham baptised 4th May 1828 abode is Langtree 5th daughter of
John and Catherine,
Catherine Bentham baptised 3rd November 1833 6th daughter of John and Catherine Bentham
abode Standish, fathers occupation on some baptisms is collier
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you will need to find confirmation this is your lady
St Wilfrid Standish Lancashire,
30th April 1863
Catherine Bentham
aged 77 years
abode Standish,
did this lady leave a will ?
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Manchester Courier June 29th 1877
Local Gleanings mentions amongst other things
CCXVII A Recovery Roll
Alexander Osbaldiston,James Smithley and others against James Standish of Erley
Roger Bradhaigh of Haigh and Matthew Standish of lands & in Blackrod Chorley and Duxbury,with third part of two mills in Duxbury Chorley, Lancashire archives may have this document,
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There still are many records available for Benthams but there are many Benthams ,some whome are not related to the claim/ One example struck me as very suspicious. I visited Standish Parish Church with my cousin to examine a a marriage documents dated October 1781. I knew the vicar quite well and he agreed to wave the usual fees to look at the parish records which were held in the cellars of the church. When we found the volume we were looking for one page was burned( yes burned) out of the records. The vicar said there had been a fire hence the missing page. Now just think about that for a moment .. One page burned from a book.. why not two three ?? surely at least two pages would have been burned?? This is one such example of the lengths these people have gone to to send a message to the Benthams .
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interestingly the firm of solicitors was from Dublin Ireland. He disappeared with most of our original documents. My suspicion is that he was paid handsomely for his betrayal/
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I have a copy of this marriage certificate.
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The crucial documents is the marriage certificate of Kathrine Bradshaigh to a Bentham ( not sure of his Christian name.) This was the parish record that was burned out of the book at Standish Parish Church. we attempted to retrieve. dated 1780/1790
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my eye is drawn to the fact that Sir Roger Bradshaigh actually admits his sister is living with his blacksmith. This is astonishing that given the lengths that the trustees have gone to to stop our claim they couldn't cover up his last will and testatment. He amended his will several times though. Copies of which are held at Chester. He goes on to say that she should be " buried at night with as few blacks in attendance as possible??" Why was this to be kept secret? Was she the missing link to our claim?
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the Katherine in question is 1771 (death and birth ) record only. This I feel has been airbrushed out of history. She married a Bentham. Thankyou for your input.
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any mention of a Bentham in that data?
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please forgive my inaccuracies as I have handed most of my documents to my cousin. I recollecting these events from 35 years ago.
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Interesting in Durham and Northumberland at some point all records were copied and sent to the Bishop on a regular basis I wonder if this was the case also in Lancashire
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Hudson Bentham was my grandfathers brother. He lived in County Durham Wingates. It made the front page of The Daily Herald.." Miner claims £42 million inheritance.
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I really do appreciate your input. If we are successful in our claim ,be assured my thanks would be substantial.
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I take heart from the fact that Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth intervened recently ina Scottish baronial case were an illegitimate child was proven to be the rightful heir thanks to The Queen insisting that DNA should indeed be evidential in cases of birthright.
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it states Katherine was unmarried in 1741
living in Haigh ,
in the book Sir Roger Bradshaigh of Haigh,knight and baronet 1628 to 1684
published in 1946
are you sure she wasn't a nun now dwelling with mee blacks
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Interesting in Durham and Northumberland at some point all records were copied and sent to the Bishop on a regular basis I wonder if this was the case also in Lancashire
Do you mean Bishop's Transcripts?
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No this is where the propaganda machine kicks in. Katherine did marry. All records have been destoyed accept birth and death. Why would a nun live with his blacksmith?
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it appears pretty clear to me that Sir Roger wanted as few people to know about his sisters relationship ( given that she had married a commoner). Buried at night?? As few blacksmith in attendance as possible? This was a clear command to see that she was buried with no one in attendance if possible. These were powerful people who could get away with anything.
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John Bentham was a farrier at Haigh Hall at that time. There are records on microfiche confirming this and his wife is named as Katherine Bradshaw (spelled without the H.
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Given his wealth why would Sir Roger send his sister(if she was indeed a nun) to live with his blacksmith?? No this makes no sense. The logical conclusion is that Katherine fell in love with his farrier and they eloped.
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if it helps I remember reading the letter my grandfather gave me from a detective thay hired at the time. He states that he is one certificate away from proving our cliam. He states that the marriage certificate of Katherine and James or John Bentham must be at Wigan Parish Church Wigan or St Elizabeths church Aspull. I am not so confident as family members now deceased mentione they eloped and married elsewhere.
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For any Bentham reading this link please remember Katherine Bradshaigh is the key to proving our claim.
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The Bentham in question was a farrier at Haigh Hall tending Sir Rogers horses. there is a record of a James Bentham living in Red Row in Haigh living with a Catherine . The timeline doesn't fit though .It is safe to assume that when they did marry he would change his profession from farrier to labourer or collier given they too wanted to keep the marriage a secret.
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One example struck me as very suspicious. I visited Standish Parish Church with my cousin to examine a a marriage documents dated October 1781. I knew the vicar quite well and he agreed to wave the usual fees to look at the parish records which were held in the cellars of the church. When we found the volume we were looking for one page was burned( yes burned) out of the records. The vicar said there had been a fire hence the missing page. Now just think about that for a moment .. One page burned from a book.. why not two three ?? surely at least two pages would have been burned??
I assume you refer to St. Wilfrid, Standish.
I looked at transcripts on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website. There were 2 weddings in October 1781. On examining other marriages in 1781, page numbers and entry numbers for the October weddings are consecutive. 2-4 weddings per month seems to have been average.
You may like to read the explanatory page "The Church of St. Wilfrid, Standish - Sources"
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Standish/stwilfrid/index.html
"To develop the transcription of Standish parish records the following sources were consulted.
..
Many of the records were in poor shape and Bishop's Transcripts and other sources were accessed to determine the original entry."
Two of my ancestors were married at the church in 1783.
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The Bentham in question was a farrier at Haigh Hall tending Sir Rogers horses. there is a record of a James Bentham living in Red Row in Haigh living with a Catherine . The timeline doesn't fit though .It is safe to assume that when they did marry he would change his profession from farrier to labourer or collier given they too wanted to keep the marriage a secret.
It's never safe to assume anything.
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Re. reply # 11, a firm of solicitors. When did this happen? If the firm is still in business, your comment might be considered libellous. It's advisable not to make accusations on this public forum.
It would be helpful if replies to a much earlier post included the post number or quoted part of the earlier post. This saves people having to read the whole thread again to find the piece of information to which the reply referred. :)
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I am quite prepared to fight a libel case as its the truth. The Dublin firm disappeared without a trace with all our paperwork. Would love to hear from them . Libel challenge or no.
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thankyou for your help though.
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just had a quick look no mention of missing page? strange?
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am just a wee bit confused by the timeline the will was 1741 and the snippets I did read never mentioned black smith just blacks so can you please confirm birth of Catherine, estimated will do ,marriage circa what year and death please
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I have little to hand other than the documents I gave my cousin. I think its Katherine Bradshaigh and James or John Bentham. My gut feeling is they did not get married in Wigan because of the obvious embarrassment this was causing for Sir Roger. I think they married outside of Wigan. The only timeline I have is when she was of an age to marry.
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I think the term blacks is short for blacksmith or collier. Probably the latter.
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I am quite prepared to fight a libel case as its the truth. The Dublin firm disappeared without a trace with all our paperwork. Would love to hear from them . Libel challenge or no.
I was more concerned for the reputation of RootsChat.
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Re. reply #34 and my reply #40. Please read:
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okay George I will leave your post for now,I asked you, for a simple timeline for the lady in question,I can not look into any church or archive records without a timeline for the birth ,even a simple search would bring up hundreds of unrelated documents in Lancashire archives,and I don't have the time or inclination to look at each individual reference as they cover hundreds of years,
Good luck with your claim and fingers crossed you find the documents that you seek
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thankyou I appreciate your help. will keep digging.
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the will was 1741 and the snippets I did read never mentioned black smith just blacks
Possibly African servants/slaves? Upper-class households had them at the time.
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I am familiar with the slavery point but I don't think Sir Roger had any black slaves. The term he is using is a term used to refer to his labourers. THE GREAT UNWASHED his blacks are his workhands.
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Hi
I am a local historian looking into the history behind the Bentham millions. Can anyone give me further details as I have come to a standstill in my research.
From what I can gather so far, Katherine Bradshaw was the daughter of Roger Bradshaw Snr (3rd Baronet of Haigh) and sister of Roger Bradshaw Jnr (4th Baronet of Haigh). The latter died childless and left a will saying the estate should go to his sister Katherine, who had apparently married a John or James Bentham. The estate actually went to the neice Elizabeth Edwin, who later became mother-in-law to Alexander Lindsay, the 6th Earl of Balcarres.
Its the dates that do not add up to me though. If I have the above correct, then Katherine Bradshaw should have been born around 1690-1740. I cannot find either a John or James Bentham who would be around the same age.
The only possibility I can find is a John Bentham, born 1801, who marries a Catherine Bradshaw and goes on to have a daughter Mary Ann Bentham. This John would have been at lest 60 years older than the Katherine Bradshaw referred to previously though.
Can anyone shed any light on this please.
Many thanks
Zoe
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John Bentham was a farrier at Haigh Hall at that time. There are records on microfiche confirming this and his wife is named as Katherine Bradshaw (spelled without the H.
Hi George
Where is this microfiche stored is it available for public viewing? I am a local historian looking into this story.
Many thanks
Zoe
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Its the dates that do not add up to me though. If I have the above correct, then Katherine Bradshaw should have been born around 1690-1740. I cannot find either a John or James Bentham who would be around the same age.
If Katherine Bradshaw was born before 1740, her marriage might have happened before Hardwicke's Marriage Act.