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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kerry => Topic started by: ceve5478 on Thursday 20 October 11 14:19 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone can help me. I am trying to trace my Grandfathers side of the family, but apart from what my mother and aunts know I can't get past his parents! My grandfather was born in (or around Tralee) on 21/08/1918 Dermot (Boggy) Whelan to Thomas/Tom/Tommy Whelan and Nora nee Guiney. He as the thrid of four children, Joseph 1913, Eleanor, 1916 and Tommy 1921.
I know that he worked with horses until he ran away to England at the age of 9. He got a job as a stable boy over here and joined The 5th Enniskilling Dragoon Guards, he served in Palestine between 36 & 39 and was part of the BEF in 1940 and was evacuated from Dunkirk. He landed during the Normandy operation and was badly injured in the head during the fighting around Caen, he left The Army in 1945 and became a successful race horse trainer. Some of his horses were Tug of War, Rocky Royale, Elco, Tropic Star and Indian Melody. He passed away in 1999 after an 8 year battle with altziemers.
If anyone can help it would be much appreciated.
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Do you have a birth cert for Dermot already ?
It should give you his father's occupation, and place of residence at the time, which might help find him on the 1911 census.
I had a quick look at the BMD Index but I didnt see a good 1918 match for his birth..
Shane
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Between 1911 and 1920, I can find just three three Whelan births in the Tralee registration district :
Joseph Anthony Whelan / Jan-Mar 1913 / Vol 5 / Pg 479
Eleanor Whelan / Jan-Mar 1917 / Vol 5 / Pg 447
Jeremiah Whelan / Oct-Dec 1918 / Vol 5 / Pg 387
see : link (https://www.familysearch.org/search/records#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3AWhelan%7E%20%2Bany_place%3ATralee%7E%20%2Bany_year%3A1911-1920%7E&collection_id=1408347&birth_place0=5)
Shane
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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone can help me. I am trying to trace my Grandfathers side of the family, but apart from what my mother and aunts know I can't get past his parents! My grandfather was born in (or around Tralee) on 21/08/1918 Dermot (Boggy) Whelan to Thomas/Tom/Tommy Whelan and Nora nee Guiney. He as the thrid of four children, Joseph 1913, Eleanor, 1916 and Tommy 1921.
There is a birth registration for a Jeremiah Whelan Tralee registration district Year 1918 Quarter Oct Dec Vol 5 p 387 . I have come across Dermot and Jeremiah being used interchangeably many times in Kerry records so it may be worthwhile getting the birth cert. I didn'f ind any entry for a Dermot Whelan
See Irish Civil registration Index at Family search.org
Also a possible marriage for Nora Guiney Tralee rg district 1913 Jan Mar vol 5 page 415. However did not find any match for a Thomas Whelan -- but sometimes one of a couple can be missing from the index.
Hope this is of use
annclare
You can apply online at www.groireland.ie ( a photocopy of the register entry gives the sam info as a cert and costs less.)
there
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Thank you for your help. I've confirmed that he was born Jeremiah Dermot Whelan, but dropped the Jeremiah. You would of thought my Mum and Aunt would of told me this when I mentioned I was researchin his side of the family!!!
I think this may of also lead me to my Great Grandfather Tom Whelan, http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000877867/ although this would indictate he was born in 1881, when I have other source saying he was born in 1884, could it be that there is a mix up here?
Thanks
Charlie
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Can anyone help with my Grandad's parents? Further information on his mother is that the Guiney's were/are a family of Doctors.
Many thanks
Charlie
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Do you have the details of the birth cert for Jeremiah Dermot ?
Once you have the place of birth, parents names, father's occupation etc the next steps might be to check the census for any possible matches, and also search for the parents marriage.
A marriage cert will include details of their fathers and help you take another step back in time.
Shane
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Hi Shane,
Thanks for that, it looks like I'll have to put my hand in my pocket for the birth certificate!
Charlie
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You can use the references mentioned above to order a research cert from the GRO - see :
Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433040.0.html)
Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)
Shane
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All,
I just wanted to say thank you very much for your help. On the off chance that it might yield something I also made enquiries to a couple of parishes in Tralee, and got the below response.
"I failed to find a record of the marriage of Thomas Whelan and Nora Guiney in Tralee, but, for other reasons, I was in the General Register Office in Dublin and I found a record of their marriage in Cork in 1912 and I attach a copy of same. This shows that Nora was from Kanturk in Co. Cork, which is in the diocese of Cloyne.
The baptismal and marriage records of the diocese of Kerry, up to the year 1900, are now available free on the website www.irishgenealogy.ie. The records of the diocese of Cloyne are on the website www.irish-roots.ie, but you have to pay to view them. However, it may be worthwhile to do so if you want to research Nora’s ancestors.
Having said that, I failed to find a record of Thomas’s baptism in Kerry. The only record of a Thomas Whelan, son of Maurice Whelan, is from Lixnaw Parish (about 10 miles north of Tralee) and dates from 1840, which would put him over 70 when he got married.
Details of the Censuses of Ireland 1901 and 1911 are now available free on the website www.census.nationalarchives.ie. I failed to find the Whelans in the 1911 census, but they are in the 1901 census. To find them, enter the following in the search engine:
Census Year: 1901
Surname: Whelan
County: Kerry
Townland/Street: Manor West
DED: Tralee
The census gives Thomas (Tom)’s age as 26, which means he was born about 1875 and tells us that his mother’s name was Hannah, and he had a brother Charley, born about 1881 and a sister Mary, born about 1890.
Armed with this information, I went back to the irishgenealogy website and found a family at Manor where the parents were Maurice Whelan and Johanna Foley. They had six children, Jeremiah, born 19th September 1871, Honora mary, born 11th March 1873, Catherine Mary, born 22nd August 1876, John, born 5th February 1878, Charles, born 1st March 1880 and Mary, born 21st November 1889.
Charles and Mary match the census. The others may have left home before 1901 or, sadly, may have died young. The mystery is that there is no Thomas.
Nora’s family are in the 1911 census. To find them, enter 1911/Guiney/Cork/Gurteenard/ Castlemagner in the search engine. This shows that Nora was 31, so was born about 1880. Her father, Timothy, was 71, so was born about 1840, and her mother was dead.
The family are also in the 1901 census and the mother, Ellen, was still alive and was the same age as her husband.
I found records of the baptisms of Thomas and Nora’s four children.
Joseph Anthony, born 7th March 1913, married Margaret Knibbs on 15th January 1942 at St. Joseph’s, Portland Crescent, Manchester 13.
Eleanor Mary was born on 11th January 1917.
Jeremiah was born on 21st August 1918, as you know.
Timothy Thomas was born on 3rd April 1921 and married Edna Rose Yearling on 4th July 1945 at Holy Cross, Plymouth.
All four were baptised in the chapel of St. Catherine’s Hospital, Tralee, which was near to where they lived at Manor."
Thanks again
Charlie
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The Maurice Whelan family are on the 1911 census site, wrongly listed as Whelon, I have filled in the form to correct this.
I am the grandson of Maurice's son John - an interesting character who was a surgeon commander in the Royal Navy and fought in the Boer War and WW1. His obituary describes him as a "well known big game shot" and "possessed of a rare gift of originality of expression and demeanour". His only son, the late Charles was my father.
I have a distant memory from the 1970's when I was 8 of attending a wedding in Leiecestershire where I met Derry the racehorse trainer and enjoyed a drive in a (to my young eyes!) splendid Jaguar car he owned!
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Looks like we're both tracing the same family. JW's obituary describes him as being born at Manor House, Tralee which comes back as a company office if googled as "Manor House, Tralee, Co. Kerry", so the building may still be standing. I hope to get to Tralee and see.
http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/grifftralee.html mentions a Jeremiah Whelan from 1851. I wonder if he was Maurice's father.
http://eppi.dippam.ac.uk/documents/17509/eppi_pages/469400 is a list of the 100 largest rate payers in Kerry and also mentions Maurice.
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002515084/
is the 1911 census record which has Thomas on it.
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Hi John,
Wow! That would of been my Grandad, although I'm not to sure if he ever "owned" a Jaguar! The Manor House in Manor West is the family home, I think both of my aunts have been there to see it.
I think Jeremiah is Maurice's father, but I can't get any hard eveidence to suggest this, the Whelan's have certainly covered their tracks!
I'm on ancestry and will share my tree with you if you pm me.
Charlie
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Hi Charlie CEVE5478, I'm new here and would like to email you about Dermot Boggy Whelan who I met many years ago when he called to see my father who worked at
Manor in Tralee in the 1920's.
thanks Seamus
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Hi Seamus,
I've sent you a PM with my email, would love to hear what you ahev to tell me!
Regards
Charlie
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Hi, just thought I'd tell you...I used to work with your Grandfather - the Legend that was - Boggy Whelan!!!! God I was scared of that man!!! Haha! I worked with him for nearly 2 years at the Stud Farm in Epsom, Lavendou Stud in Chalk Lane.... it was 1986 - 88! I was only 16, my first ever job...I loved it! He was amazing with the horses - I was in awe of him he was so natural & could calm the most highly strung of horses! Nothing fazed him!!! He never really spoke to me - he was far to busy with his horses to speak to a mere stable girl, but I had the utmost respect for him, every once in a while, if you crept up on him, you'd hear him talking to the horses so gently.....an amazing but stern man.
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marriage Killarney 1870
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYSN-FQ7
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYSG-KPK
Children
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bfather_givenname%3Amaurice~%20%2Bfather_surname%3Awhelan~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Ahannah~&collection_id=1584963
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Hello I am fairly new here, doing some research on Burton family and came across your thread.. just thought you might like to know that Nora Guiney - married to Thomas Whelan was my Grandmother's sister. My Grandmother was Annie Guiney, daughter of Tim Guiney of Kanturk - married to Frankie Burton Curragh, Kanturk. My Dad - Phil Burton - married to my Mum Eileen McAuliffe was their son.
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hi there - the Guiney's were prominent farmers and community leaders in Co Cork. Lawyers, politicians - not sure if there were any Dr's in the Kanturk Guineys.
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I believe we are cousins. My mother, Miriam Slattery, was Derry's first cousin, I think. Which makes us second cousins once removed. I met him a few times at Goodwood races, he was a sweet man. I'll see if my sister knows anything more about him. I happened to find your request when I was searching for some information on him - my partner is in the racing world. I think I remember him saying that his daughter was a nurse working in Singapore, but I remember very little else about him, he was always in a rush to the next race when we caught up with him.