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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: 1963chris on Friday 21 October 11 17:37 BST (UK)
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I and other staff at a Local Studies Library are currently working on a project on the Luddites, and are seeking records of their marriages and baptisms of their children. We have had a little sucess so far in searching the records at our disposal, but wondered if anyone out there has already researched this subject, and has found anything along these lines. We could always use a little help!
Chris
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Which Luddites are you studying.
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Hi Chris
The pall of secrecy hangs over the Luddites still! :)
The ones who lived probably went to great lengths not to be identified as such, but the names of those hanged at York in January 1813 might mean something to some rootschatters:
George MELLOR, cloth dresser of Longroyd Bridge, the acknowledged leader of the Luddites in the Huddersfield area, probably unmarried, chr. St Peter's Christmas Day 1789
William THORPE of Huddersfield, cloth dresser
Thomas SMITH of Huddersfield, cloth dresser
James HAIGH of Dalton (aged 28 in 1813)
Jonathan DEAN of Huddersfield (aged 30 in 1813)
John OGDEN of Huddersfield (aged 28 in 1813)
Thomas BROOK of Lockwood (aged 32 in 1813)
John WALKER of Longroyd Bridge (aged 31 in 1813)
Job HEY, North Dean (Halifax)
John HILL
William HARTLEY of Warley, tailor (aged 41 in 1813)
James HEY
Joseph CROWTHER
Nathan HOYLE
(These last three committed their crimes at Sheepridge)
John SWALLOW
John BATLEY
Joseph FISHER
(These last three were all coal miners, and committed their crimes at Kirkheaton)
Regards,
Lesley
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Hi
Those people mentioned by Lesley were said to be Luddites and hung but all protested their innocence the only two that you can definitely say were Luddites were; John Booth and Samuel Hartley who were taken prisoner and died of wounds after being torched.
John
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I did a bit of reseach a few years ago on some of the names above owing to a family connection. These been.
Joseph Fisher
John Swallow
John Batley
They were charged with breaking and entering the house of Samuel Moxton on 3 July 1812. There were also three others involved, namely Earl Parkin and his brother Samuel also John Lumb, Earl Parkin and Samuel turned Kings evidence so did not face trial even though Earl Parkin seemed to be the ringleader. John Lumb was found guilty but shown mercy and he was sentenced to be transported , I have been unable to find out if this was carried out. John Lumb bn 1776 Briestfield/ Thornhill married in1801 Hannah Fisher
two children Thomas Lumb bn1802 Thornhill and Harriett Lumb bn1809. hannah and her children seemed to have left the area and moved down to the Barnsley region.
John Batley bn1782 Briestfield/Thornhill occ Clothier
married Rebecca Barker in1801 Thornhill. One child Sykes Batley bn1808 d 1812
Rebecca Batley then married Nathan Fisher bn1791 in1814 at Thornhill
John Swallow bn c1776 Briestfield/Thornhill
occ Coal Miner married
Sarah Kaye in Emley 1801
Richard Swallow bn1801 bap1802 in Thornhill
William Swallow b1803 Thornhill
Elizabeth Swallow bn1806 Thornhill
Joshua Swallow bn1808 Thornhill
Ann Swallow 1811 Thornhill
Joseph Fisher bn circ1780 Briestfield/Thornhil (not sure?) occ Coal Miner
Married Maboth Tyne in 1806 Thornhill
Nathan Fisher bn 1807 Thornhill
Martin Fisher bn1811 Thornhill
Joseph Fisher bn 1809 Thornhill
Maboth fisher then married George Milnes in 1814 at wakefield.
Interestingly enough Maboth Tyne,s brother Mark Tyne was brought to Trial in 1806 for beating his wife Hannah Fisher to death. I dont know what the outcome of the trial was but he died in 1811 in Thornhill.
As Leslie stated they were tight lipped about There connection to the Luddites. So I hope this information i have will be of interest. My own interest is the Fisher family of this area.But the big Mystery is where were they buried?? no ref in ThornHill Registers somebody said they were Buririd in secret in unmarked graves and not registered. So if anybody can enlighten me on this matter i would be grateful.?
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Hi
Mark TYNE was acquitted, apparently on a technicality, at his trial on Sep 3rd 1803 (not 1806).
In the account in the York Herald it says:
'The judge here stated to the jury that they must acquit the prisoner, because not properly described in the indictment'.
The doctor doing the post-mortem had concluded that the beating , witnessed by several people including James FISHER, could not have been the cause of death as the deceased had no broken ribs.....
From other witness evidence of the fracas, it seems that Mark Tyne was accusing his wife of being pregnant by John GREEN.
Regards,
Lesley
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Thanks for that Leslie yes 1803 is right for Hannahs death which occured I believe in MIrfield Workhouse?James Fisher was Hannah,s Father.One again Thank you.
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Hi,
Thank you all for your input - I am sure my colleagues will find it interesting!
I had found baptism and burial records for Sykes Batley, son of John, and also a marriage record for Rebecca Batley to Nathan Fisher in 1814. We have been following a few more leads.
The fact that Luddites and their descendants were not keen to be identified as such adds mystery (and frustration!) to the search process...
CME, we will let you know if we discover any burial records for the Fisher family,
Chris
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I notice that you have John Hill on your list- I have often wondered if he had some link with my George Hill of Hartshead.
I seem to recall that John Hill came from Elland and that he may have been amongst those luddites buried ( perhaps covertly) at Hartshead.
Hill isn't an unusual name but it wasn't too common in the early 19thC in our area. So there may be a connection.
Do you know anything about John Hill, place of birth etc?
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Hi
John HILL was a cotton-spinner from Greetland, aged 36 in 1813.
There is no burial for John Hill in the Elland registers, nor for Job HEY (waterman, aged 40), who also came from Greetland. Both were tried, convicted and hanged along with William HARTLEY.
William Hartley had married Sarah SUTCLIFF on 22nd September 1791 at St. John's, Halifax, when both were said to be 'of Luddenden'. William was able to sign the register, Sarah wasn't. It appears to have been a double wedding, as William witnessed the marriage on the same day, between James BUCKLEY and Sarah HARTLEY. There are a number of christenings in the St John's registers which look likely to be William Hartley and Sarah Sutcliff's children:
Anthony chr 16.9.1792
John chr 12.11.1797
James chr 29.12.1799
Grace chr 15.8.1802
William chr 1.4.1804
Sarah chr 3.8.1806
Elizabeth chr 4.9.1808
Grace 7.6.1812
Regards,
Lesley
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My Hill was George b.1771 Pogmore nr Barnsley but already living,+ wed to Susannah,at Hartshead in 1803 when his son Francis was born.
Do we have any record of where John Hill was born/baptised?
A bit of a "long shot " that they might be related but worth a look .
Not sure where I got the idea that luddites were buried at Hartshead- will try to find out.
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Have just had a bit of a google-"luddites hartshead" yields a lot of refs- it seems the story about the secret burial of luddites at Hartshead refers to the aftermath of the attack on nearby Rawfold mills. Patrick Bronte was vicar at the time.
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I can't see any likely baptism for John HILL at Elland.
He married Susannah FLEEMING on Christmas Day 1810 at Elland, but didn't baptise any children in St Mary's.
There was a Mark HILL, cloth dresser of Dalton aged 26 in 1813 'charged with beginning to demolish the Mill of William Cartwright', but he was 'Discharged without Prosecution'.
Regards,
Lesley
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Further to Sunlaw's posting on the 25th of October
It appears to have been a double wedding, as William witnessed the marriage on the same day, between James BUCKLEY and Sarah HARTLEY
I've come across several of these in the Huddersfield area. I got the impression that anyone who could write their own name was roped in as a witness for other marriages on the same day.
Dave
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Yes, there are lots of instances of 'rent-a-witness', but on this occasion I had assumed that Sarah HARTLEY was possibly William Hartley's sister, or cousin. Sarah's bridegroom James BUCKLEY witnessed William's wedding. I presume they still had to pay two lots of fees to the vicar, but might have been able to economise on the post-wedding party!
Regards,
Lesley
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Re "Patrick Bronte and burials of luddite rioters" .
Patrick Bronte was the Parish Vicar (St Peters at Heartshead ) closest to Rawfolds Mill (near Cleckheaton) at the time of the riots there. (said to be the source of the events in Charlottes novel Shirley). He kept a loaded pistol by his bed at the time of the riots , as im sure many did.
The following quote is from a book about The Brontes by Brian Wilks
"The story is told that when one night he stumbled upon some men digging in a corner of his churchyard , he had the good sense to realise that it was an illegal burial of rioters who had died from their wounds while in hiding . He turned a blind eye"
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Some work was done into that rumour and it was found to be unfounded.
The church for Rawfolds would have been Birstal but Mirfield was also close.
John
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Some work was done into that rumour and it was found to be unfounded.
The church for Rawfolds would have been Birstal but Mirfield was also close.
John
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(reply to John iv quoted above ^) What ! They lately dug the whole graveyard up ? .
And Rawfolds mill was nowhere near "Birstal " or "Mirfield" . It was at Liversedge near Hightown going up toward Heartshead moor and Halifax road way. Same as St Peters . Why would someone traipse miles away to "Birstal" or "Mirfield" ?
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Hi
Many things that were written by, about and to the Brontes were heavily censored after their deaths. Court and Libel action was threatened to the extent that some chapters of books about the Brontes were published in America but not England.
Moves were afoot to quash any rumours that were detrimental to the godliness of the family. So it is possible that the above incident fell into that category.
Having said that Patrick was a stickler for setting the record straight, even recording married women as spinsters where a child was born out of wedlock and the mother subsequently married. I find it hard to believe that a burial or burials went unrecorded in his churchyard. However a hanged man or convicted felon would surely have been buried in an unmarked grave outside the consecrated area.
Dave
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The wounded after Cartwrights Mill attack at Rawfolds headed up to what is now the Star Inn at Roberttown. Hartshead St Peters is the logical place to bury any fatalities.
Id heard about the burials when I was a child around Hartshead and often wonder if there are Luddites in an unmarked grave when i walk past the church.
Patrick wouldve had to have actually been at the church as he wouldnt have seen the graveyard from his lodgings at Thorneybush Farm across the road from the church !
Ady :)
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Hi
The rumour was that they were buried by the church wall just outside of the church so there was no need to dig the graveyard up.
Liversidge, Roberttown and Hightown were all in the parish of Birstal so burials would have been there.
The burial of the hanged men was up to the relatives and some of the men hanged at York were taken back to Huddersfield and they were buried in St. Peter's.
The Rawfolds demonstrators fled in all directions and used different paths back to their homes and not just the shortest so you cannot say which road they would have been taken.
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Yes they would have come from and fled to all directions.
But some who died were not hung at York so probably had an illegal burials .
As Ady says . They died at Star Inn Robertown and folk would not have wanted to be lugging dead bodies of rioters all over the shop as that would have put them at risk too.
There would have been Militia everywhere by then
Iv done a googl map with routes on foot , because it is quite confusing with all the old Parish boundries (hope link works)
A. Cooper Bridge (were the rioters/luddites first gathered )
B. Rawfolds Mill (the riot/attack on the mill)
C. Hartshead (were Patrick Bronte was at St Peters)
D. Robertown (Star Inn Pub Ady mentions , were some of injured/dying rioters/luddites were taken)
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=cooper+bridge+roudabout++mirfield&daddr=Rawfolds,+Cleckheaton+to:Hartshead+to:Roberttown&hl=en&ll=53.702601,-1.716614&spn=0.09979,0.216293&sll=53.702601,-1.716614&sspn=0.09979,0.216293&geocode=Few-MwMdb3Hl_yF0u7xxLF2oJimXDg_hZN57SDF0u7xxLF2oJg%3BFZuxMwMdRgTm_ykJrTpEK957SDHsn6KhSV3jyg%3BFTNgMwMdTbrl_ymDybdiQd57SDGtVHfU00bU1w%3BFTljMwMdtwXm_ynZMP4OS957SDFh9N7vn_kMJg&oq=robert&dirflg=w&mra=ls&t=m&z=12
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You mean the Yew Tree which was pulled down and replaced by Headlands Hall. A crowd gather so they were then taken to the Star Inn at Roberttown were they were tortured to death.
The old routs have since been overtaken by development and it is hard to see the old paths, the main one is from Huddersfield over kilner Bank down Long Lane then Nettleton Road, Dalton Bank Road which brings you out onto Colne Bridge were you turn left and then right onto Cooper Bridge Road, the railway as alter this rout but it is very close to how it would have been.
From Cooper Bridge you turn right at the roundabout and then there is an old footpath at the side of the Three Nuns which takes you up to Cross Hall Lane then you take School Lane then down Green Lane through the cemetery onto Clough Lane and at the end of Clough Lane you turn right onto Halifax Road and the left down Primrose Lane and there we have Rawfolds. I have done the Luddite trail and tried several of the other footpaths but I think this is the best and easiest.
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Blimey ! "tortured to death" :( . I hadnt thought of that J.R. Great info . I grew up in the area too and yes they wouldnt have taken the exact route on my map . I just thought it might give folk who dont know the area and history a general idea of events and places. Re topic , maybe we should put some of these luddites here up for the sites Scavenger Hunt section ? What does anyone think ?
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http://archive.org/stream/risingsluddites01peelgoog#page/n18/mode/2up
Theres a book by Peel (Free download above) written in 1880
Think it mentions the "torture" passed of as cauterising the wounds!
Ady
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Hi
It would be a good idea but the On the trail of the Luddites by Lesley Kipling & Nick Hall gives you a good perspective on the Luddites and takes you to all the places of interest, but I don't know if it is still in publication.
The interesting one about the deaths is if you look at the Huddersfield St. Peter's burial register you have John Booth, one of the dead Luddites and just 9 burial later you William Horsfall alledged victim of the Luddites.
It was one of the dying Luddites that when asked by the vicar when he was close to death to confess his sins and name his accomplices. He reply "can you keep a secret" and the vicar replied "yes" and with his last words the Luddite said "so can I."
I did trace one of the cleared Luddites and found his burial for my Kirkheaton burial booklet.
John
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Hi all
Just wondering if anyone can put me on the trail of those Luddites who were arrested, but bailed/released. I have searched the 1812/13 newspapers, but can only find the names of those brought to trial. I live near York so can get in some time to check the prison calendars, but in the meantime, I'm wondering if I can find the names of those originally arrested, somewhere?
Am curious as my ancestors were weavers, clothiers, and cloth dressers in Halifax, Huddersfield and Longwood, at this time.
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Hi
Cowgill's book about the York Trials, available in full here:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pjoIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PR1&dq=york+castle+trials+luddites&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sZ4GUYSzB5K00QXivoCQDQ&redir_esc=y
contains (pages 130-131) lists of those acquitted or not charged.
Regards,
Lesley
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Thanks so much for your prompt reply, Lesley. I'll go and look at it, now.
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Hi all,
This is a good blog on the Luddites, they are blogging in real time as the riots,trials and accusations occur.
they use the various online and offline resources that reported and recorded the trial.
http://ludditebicentenary.blogspot.co.uk/
They are also in Twitter: https://twitter.com/luddites200
@luddites200
I have been following them for a year now and have read most of the blog in real time.
I was interested in trying to tie Joseph Crowther into my family, but sadly i cannot find enough information and records to prove the link.
Regards,
Andy.
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Thanks, Andy. Funny you should mention Crowther as my husband just this week found out one of his relatives married a Benjamin Crowther in the 1890s, whose family came from Sowerby. When I traced him back, I get his grandfather or grt grandfather (forget which), Thorp Crowther, (I know Thorp is also 'a name'), in Sowerby. I think Joseph C's dad's name was Richard, though. And can't as yet see if Thorp and Richard are related in any way. He was a Crowther from Sowerby, though and the only Yorkshireperson on my husband's entire tree!
My own family were clothiers, woollen weavers, and croppers in Halifax and Huddersfield at this time. One lot moved from Halifax to Huddersfield, somewhere between 1812 and 1819. Their names were Smith (I have a Thomas Smith, as well but presumably no relation! Mine was a 'Fancy Wool Manufacturer' at Longwood, nr Huddersfield, and a bit younger than 'the' Thomas Smith - mine was born 1799). And my weavers/cloth dressers were Listers and Crabtrees. Can't yet link them to anything Luddite related. My Thomas Smith went into partnership with one of the Hansons, to start a mill at Longwood and I noticed from the 1813 newspapers, that one of the witnesses who gave an alibi for a Longroyd Bridge Luddite was a William Hanson.
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Have been reading Andys link , thankyou, to the Luddite bicentenary blog too . A great read and so much info re ages , where of ect .
Found some of the last words of the men quite poignant , " farewell lads " !
Looked into Nathan Hoyle of Skircoat but my Hoyles were of the Heptonstall/Wadsworth areas , so i don't think there will be a connection .
Most of the 14 men hung at York had children , some had upto 7 .
There must be thousands of descendents by now .
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This is a bit after the event really, but I do have a question someone may be able to help with. My niece has been researching our tree and has recently sent me her findings. We have an ancestor named Elizabeth Lumb, born in Thornhill in 1812 who was later married to George Scargill, also of Thornhill. My niece has come up against a brick wall re Elizabeth's parentage. Whilst I know the name John Lumb is reasonably commonplace, as the dates and places match up, as well as knowing we come from a long line of colliers, it doesn't seem entirely fanciful to imagine that John and Hannah may be Elizabeth's parents. From an account of his experience of visiting the families of the Luddites, a Quaker states that Hannah Fisher was the mother of 5 children. Has anyone uncovered the names of Hannah and John's children yet?