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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: 2Harriet on Tuesday 25 October 11 21:09 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Does anyone have any ideas please how to find the burial place of my gt grandfather Alexander Gordon who died in Ayr County Hospital Dec 31 1893 ?
He lived at Miltonise, New Luce, Wigtownshire. He died a day after being hit by a train and was a railway surfaceman. so I also wondered if there may have been something in a local newspaper about the accident. Any ideas ??
Thanks, June
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Hi June,
There is a graveyard at New Luce . The paper which is still going today for that area is the Wigtownshire Free Press there might be a report or an obituary
You could also contact the local council at Stranraer I am sorry I don't have the telephone number I have only visited it at Blackparks as you have his death date that will help the woman Morag is very helpful .
They is a website dedicated to research in Wigtownshire " Wigtownshire Pages " they will often do lookups.
I notice you live in Dumfries why not try the local family history society there they might also be able to help.
Regards,
suzilad
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Hi, thanks for reply . I have searched graveyards around New Luce area to no avail so far .
June
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Hi June
Did you ever have any luck with finding your great-grandfather's burial place? If so, I'd be interested to hear your tale.
I'm in a similar situation. My great-grandfather Daniel Murphy died in Ayr County Hospital in 1915 and I am completely unable to trace his last resting place. I am currently looking into the possibility that he may have died in a state of poverty and been buried in a pauper's grave - but nothing as yet.
Just be interested if you've had any inspiration that may possibly be of help to me.
Many thanks
Brian
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Hi
I live in Ayr, I would be happy to go and ask in the local library to see if they would have any information or if there was anything in the local Ayrshire papers. They also have burial records at the cemetery, if he died in Ayr he might have been buried here too.
Maureen
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The deaths may have been reported in the Ayrshire Post. If the burial was in Ayr I would think the most likely place would be the main cemetery in Holmston Road - it is more or less across the road from where the hospital was. You could triy contacting the burials admin office in Ayr with the date of death and give Holmston as the burial place - they should be able to tell you, I would think it would be unlikely to be anywhere else in Ayr. There may also have been a death/obit in your local paper which may also give where he was intended to be buried.
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Hi Brian
I'm afraid I don't have any information regarding the burial place of Daniel Murphy but I would be interested if you had managed to uncover any further information as he was also my Great Grandfather.
Audrey
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Hi Audrey
Nice to hear from you. Your message certainly took me by surprise. Do you by any chance live in Ayr where Daniel was born and raised?
I have been piecing together my family tree for some years now and I have a considerable amount of information regarding Daniel Murphy. Perhaps you might tell me what kind of information you need. I'd be glad to help.
Brian
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Hi Brian
Thanks for your reply. I have been pottering with the family tree on and off for a few years now but I have never really fleshed out the bones so to speak. I only really have what I can glean from the certificates online, which is really just dates, occupations and places, so any extra information that you may have found would be great. I knew Daniel worked as a saddler and as a child when we went on daytrips to Ayr we would pass a shop, possibly in the Sandgate, and I remember being told that was where he used to work. I remember the plastic horse's head in the window.
I managed to get back to Catherine Sheehy on the Irish side but couldn't get any further down that line.
I live within an hour's drive of Ayr and Glasgow. I should really visit the Mitchell Library and get myself down to the Ayrshire Archives. You are obviously well ahead of me in the information stakes but if there is any digging that you think I could do for you from this end I would be happy to help.
Audrey
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Hi June
I have found a very sad and detailed article on the accident of Alexander Gordon on FindMyPast.
However as i am quite new to the forum I am now asking RC members How I can post this, without breaking any copyright rules etc
Any guidance please?
Thanks
C_W
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Thank you so much for finding this for me. I found it straight away when I looked up the Glasgow Herald on FindMyPast. I had not thought to search the Glasgow Herald ! We went last year to look at the area and remember the route and scenery between Glenwhilly and Barrhill Stations.
Here is a transcript of the article on page 4, 2nd Jan 1894, Glasgow Herald ...
"MAN KILLED ON RAILWAY NEAR GLENWHILLY - On Saturday evening sufaceman, Alexander Gordon, was walking on the railway near Glenwhilly station, on the Glasgow and South-Western railway was overtaken by the 8.30pm express train from Stranraer to Glasgow. The driver of the train reported at Barrhill station that his engine had struck something, and this was communicated to the officials at Glenwhilly. A search was instituted, and the man Gordon was found lying between the rails about a mile and a quarter from the station. His left arm was broken and his right foot was entirely cut off. He was also severely bruised on the head. The injured man was conveyed by train to Ayr, and the infirmary, where he died shortly afterwards. Gordon ,who was 51 years of age and married, was returning from Glenwhilly station to his home at Miltonise cottages."
My new challenge will be to find out what the outcome of the precognition was / and subsequent inquiry into his death.
Thankyou for your help...I had been looking for over 10 years, so many Alexander Gordons in Scotland !! Great site this x
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Hi again,
I know there is a website that holds info on railway accidents. Sorry I don't remember more, but I did find info on an ancestor who lost a leg in a rail crash.
Other members may know more.
C_W
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http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk
Here is the site I mentioned. If you don't find anything they maybe able to point you in the right direction. ...
C_W
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Hi , For future reference (useful for anyone who doesn't have a Findmypast subscription) - the Glasgow Herald archive is free to search through Google Newspaper archive -
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=GGgVawPscysC
There are many more titles of world newspapers online in Google's newspaper archive.
Looby
PS. would agree that if Alexander Gordon was not taken home for burial the likely place would be Ayr Cemetery , next to Holmston Road , which was not far from the location of the old County Hospital.
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My new challenge will be to find out what the outcome of the precognition was / and subsequent inquiry into his death.
On your g grandfather's death cert, was there a note written on the left hand margin of his entry on the register? This would be a reference to the Register of Corrected Entries (RCEs). Where available, Scotlands People have been adding links to view the RCE on their website (costs an additional 2 units to view the RCE online).
Monica
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Hi It was a precognition reference in the margin of Alexander's death record[attached]which as far as I know is an official gathering of evidence or statements of witnesses for some sort of enquiry. I am hoping someone can decypher it as its hard to make out.
I guess surfacemen did not work on a Saturday evening in the dark even in 1893 so he was unlikely to have been actually working on the line. The railway track was a more direct route for him rather than the undulating roadway to get home. Having no car, he would use the local train for local journeys to Ayr or perhaps Colmonell. Considering he was an experienced surfaceman he would be aware normally of the timing of trains on this line [ and would hear them from his home in Miltonise cottages] so it would be reasonable to suggest he might have been having a social pre hogmany drink and his usual good judgement was maybe impaired. What do folks think ?
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Did you get his death cert yourself online from Scotlands People? If so, you should be able to go back and see the link button to be able to access the RCE entry for his death online on SP.
See www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?1314
Monica
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RCE gives exactly same info as death record. I thought it would be different ! The Holmiston Road cemetery is the most likely for a burial and I will research that, Thanks everyone.
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Ok folks back to where he was buried. The south Ayrshire cemeteries office
could not find Alexander Gordon in Ayr Cemetery [Holmiston road] for that date. They also kindly had a look in the inscription books for Colmonell and also Barrhill, and could not find Alexander there either.
The Masonhill crematorium in Ayr was not built until 1966 and i wondered if he could have been cremated somewhere else nearby. Maryhill cemetery did not open until 1895. He would not have been incinerated by the hospital surely?
MI books for the area searched and Alexander is not buried in New Luce . Glenluce or Inch cemteries [ Suzilad on Rootschat tells me] Although possibly he had no headstone.
What do I do now? He must have gone somewhere? Anyone any ideas please ??
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Has anyone checked Ayrshire Archives for the Hospital records for Ayr Country Hospital?
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Would it be worth trying the Dumfries & Galloway Family History Society? http://www.dgfhs.org.uk/
(But of course you may already be a member?!). They may hold other records.
You would think his family would take him 'home' to bury.
C_W
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Thanks for the idea ! about the Ayr County records. I have emailed the Ayrshire Archives and will let folks know if I get a response.
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My reply from Ayrshire Archives.....
"Thank you for your recent enquiry with regards to finding the burial place of your Great Grandfather, Alexander Gordon who died at Ayr County Hospital in 1893. Unfortunately, although we do hold records of this hospital, there are gaps within the collection and I’m afraid that the Register of Admissions and Discharges for the period 1892 – 1904 has not survived. There appear to be no death registers either, whether they existed and haven’t survived or such a thing was never recorded I can’t say.
We do not hold any other burial records, these are all held by our colleagues within South Ayrshire Council’s Cemeteries Office whom I note you have already been in touch with.
We do hold the Registers of Corrected Entries which were compiled by Registrars and contain information about suspicious or accidental deaths, I have looked for the entry for Alexander and whilst I did find the entry there is no information with regards to his place of burial. The death registration took place at Ayr and the Procurator Fiscal who carried out the investigation into the death is noted as being Stranraer. The other details given are merely his name place and time of the accident and then his subsequent death."
So I think I am at a dead end now [haha]. Seriously though, quite sad I cannot find him.
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Sorry to hear you didn't get a better result in your research. Have you tried Wigtownshire fhs?
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Where are the rest of the family buried? Wife, sons/daughters etc, there might have been a family lair, and if you find one of them as being a likely choice, then maybe the burials admin office for whatever area could confirm his burial in the same plot.
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http://www.dgfhs.org.uk/ Dumfries and Galloway Family History Society have printed books of the inscriptions of New Luce and other church yards.
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Hi Audrey
We share the same great-grandfather, did you ever manage to find out more info about where he is buried?
Linda
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Hi Linda,
I found my grandparents' grave in Colmonell [ie William Gordon and Janet ], and right beside it there is the small headstone, easily missed, of "Annie Wright, wife of Alexander Gordon". I assume he is buried there but cannot be certain as that was all that was on it. I would love to know how you fit into the tree please and would be happy to share photos and info with you. Do get in touch!
Best wishes,
Harriet