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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: cschleibs on Wednesday 26 October 11 12:36 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help. What do you think the maiden name is.
I know it looks like Monks but other names beginning with 'M' on this Irish Certificate start from the top.
Also what could that squiggle mean on top of the last few letters?
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Id say it was Monks
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I would agree looks like Monks
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The squiggle is just a faded loop.The writer seems to like them,all the L's and the E and Z in Eliza have them.
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Another vote for Monks (deciphered before I read the other replies)
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Hello there and welcome to Rootschat ;D
Who is the birth cert for (I'd say Monks too ;D) and where and when !
Have you not found this child with her parents on any censuses?
Is it possibly thia marriage,although there's no guarantee that Eliza married Robert without further checks.
Marriages Sep 1869
Monks Eliza Romford 4a 169
Smart Alfred Romford 4a 169
TURNBULL Robert Romford 4a 169
WRIGHT Emily Mary Romford 4a 169
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Agreed it is Monks, but can you confirm the M from anywhere else on the certificate?
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The squiggle is the top part of the "K" which is looped.
Carol
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Thanks everyone.
carol8353 you are a Gem!
It is a birth certificate for a child to Eliza and Robert Edward Turnbull but i couldn’t find a marriage which is why i wasn’t sure that her maiden name was Monks.
Can i ask where did you get your info from and who are those other names listed.
My next step would be to order their wedding certificate!
Many thanks
Carolyn
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The info comes from FreeBMD http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
On a page in the parish registers there are usually 2 marriages (more in earlier times) so 2 couples share the same page number,that's why there are 4 names in the list I gave you. Unless you have the cert or can find them on later censuses you don't know for sure which girl married which chap.
But if the area and date seem roughly right then I'd say they were the right ones ;D
Order the cert from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ at a cost of £9-25 they post anywhere in the world for that price.
As I asked yesterday who is this child and what date and where was it born?
We may then be able to find the family on a census to confirm it,sometimes they have other family members staying there(maybe an elderly relative,or a single sister) to prove mum's maiden name.
Carol
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Thanks Carol!
This family is from Ireland so I cannot believe on how naive I am not even giving a thought to looking at UK BDM!
Eliza could possibly be English. I will have a look at the Census.
This child is Robert Turnbull, born in Dublin on 15th July 1879. I have found both him and his father on the Irish 1901 and 1911 Census but no trace of Eliza. If she is English, she may have returned to England - There has also been a name change from Turnbull to Manning between 1901 and 1911 which isn’t helping in my search!
Robert (the father) has recorded his home town in Waterford Co. Ireland on the Census so I’m thinking he must have travelled.
I will now shift from Ireland to England and see what I can find.
Many thanks again ;)
Carolyn
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just to confirm the maiden name - a baptism for Robert is included on IrishGenealogy :
RC Parish of St. Mary (Marlborough St, Dublin)
Name: Robert Edward Turnbull
Date of Birth : 15 July 1879
Date of Baptism : 16 July 1879
Address 2 Uxbridge[?]
Parents : Robert Turnbull & Mary Elizabeth Monks
Sponsor :Elizabeth Byrne
Priest : M. A. Fricker
see : link (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ab99da0120506)
Shane
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THanks for that Shane. I now don't think that 1869 marriage in Romford Essex that I found is correct.
The mother's name is completely different.
Are you sure they didn't marry in Ireland?
Was that the only child they had,you would expect a marriage to be a year or two before the birth of the 1st one.
Carol
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I dont see any likely Civil marriages for Robert and Mary on the Irish BMD Index - two under the surname Riddal during the 1870s in Armagh and Belfast and one in 1880 in Longford :
Robert Rudell, marriage 1870-1880 (https://www.familysearch.org/search/records#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3ARobert%7E%20%2Bsurname%3ARuddell%7E%20%2Bany_year%3A1870-1880%7E&collection_id=1408347&marriage_place0=5)
Shane
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Thanks for that link Shane, it was great! I also searched Robert (the son) wedding in 1901 to Kate Lennon and to my surprise his mothers name has changed to Eliza Mc Donnell!!!
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3540540061911
I am not sure if the father Robert had any brothers or sisters. I’m finding it so hard to trace them.
As i mentioned they changed the surname often from Turnbull to Manning. This stuck permanently when Robert and Kate moved to Scotland in 1821 where our Grandfather was born. My uncle remembers his grandfather Robert very well as a child and recalls he would never talk about the past... all very mysterious!
When the father Robert died in Dublin 1914 (found him on LDS) his is a Manning.
Thank you both Shane and Carol for getting me this far!
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Thanks for that link Shane, it was great! I also searched Robert (the son) wedding in 1901 to Kate Lennon and to my surprise his mothers name has changed to Eliza Mc Donnell!!!
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3540540061911
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are you sure it's the same Robert Turnbull ?
the father's name is different also - Robert on the baptism, Edward on that marriage
Shane
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Yes its the same Robert. I have their wedding certificate. Their address is the same.
It seems that the father registered his names on different document either Robert Edward or Edward Robert.
*on previous post correction - Robert and Kate moved to Scotland in 1921