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Some Special Interests => Quaker Family History => Topic started by: jannergray on Friday 28 October 11 17:29 BST (UK)

Title: Quakers in Wellingborough
Post by: jannergray on Friday 28 October 11 17:29 BST (UK)
Hello
Can anyone help answer a question about Quakers in Wellingborough?

My 7xGt Grandfather, Lot GARNER was buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Wellingborough on the 21 December 1784. His burial record remarks that "The above Lot GARNER was not a member of our Society". Does this mean that he was not a Quaker? or was he a Quaker from a different meeting house, i.e. Northampton?

I have been led to believe he was a Quaker since his Parents also appear to have been Quakers; also Lot's children, among them Phillis GARNER, born 1744 at Wellingborough was not baptised until she married James RANDS in 1768.

If anyone wishes to see the original burial 'certificate' please see the link to Flickr here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gora_gray/6289322552/in/photostream

Any help or advice regarding the comment on the burial record would be most appreciated; likewise if anyone else connects to Lot GARNER at Wellingborough i'd love to hear from you.

All best wishes,

Graham Naylor
Title: Re: Quakers in Wellingborough
Post by: MajorD on Saturday 05 November 11 16:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Graham

Have you seen this link:  http://home.comcast.net/~adhopkins/nh-birth.txt    ? There are references to the births in Wellingborough of Sarah, Ann and Lot Garner, 1707, 1709 and 1710 respectively, to parents Lot and Ann Garner.

I  can think of a couple of possible explanations;

a) given the number of Garners shown at Northampton on the link above, your Lot was possibly a member of Northampton Meeting, perhaps returning to Wellingborough to be closer to immediate family towards the end of his life.

b) that Lot chose not to follow his parent's membership of the Quakers (of any other denomination) and was buried there because of the family's connection.

I will contact the Meeting House to find out if they retain any records of that age on site and if I can get to see them but I would think it unlikely that it would clear this up with any certainty.

Hope this helps

Ian

Ian
Title: Re: Quakers in Wellingborough
Post by: WolfieSmith on Saturday 05 November 11 18:59 GMT (UK)
The 1707, 1709, 1710 records are from the Quakers Northamptonshire Quarterly meeting and the Wellingborough Monthly meeting (same info recorded at each meeting).

1707. Sarah, daughter of Lot Garner and Ann, his wife, was born on the 21st day of the 7th month.

1709. Ann, daughter of Lot Garner and Ann, his wife, of Wellingborough, was born on the 1st of the 3rd month.

1710. Lot, son of Lot Garner and Ann, his wife, of Wellingborough, was born on the 23rd day of the 9th month.

Their marriage is in 1706.

Lot Garner of Wellingborough and Ann Brown of Irthlingborough took each other in marriage the 14th day of the 9th month.

A Quaker burial in 1741 :

Lot Garner Senr of Wellingborough died the 12th and was buried the 14th of the 2nd month at Wellingborough.

Its likely that Lot Jnr was introduced to Quakerism by his parents and will have attended their meetings. He may then have done something to cause him to be "blackballed" later in life, or just chosen to stop attending. You could move in and out of membership. Quakerism was bit like a club, where the members made the rules of who was "In Membership" and who was out. Marrying a non-Quaker was grounds for expulsion, but you might be let back in later.  Many non Quakers were buried in the Quaker burial grounds, but they usually had some connection to the movement. A child whose parents were not members is two entries after Lot Jnr in the burial register.

Alan.
Title: Re: Quakers in Wellingborough
Post by: Sandy Hall on Saturday 05 November 11 21:30 GMT (UK)
Hi All.

I wonder if Lot waited for his Father to die before he married.

From The Northants Marriage Indexes.

Wellingborough
27 Dec 1741
Lot GARNER otp & Jane GROVE otp

Sandy      
Title: Re: Quakers in Wellingborough
Post by: MajorD on Sunday 06 November 11 12:16 GMT (UK)
@ Wolfie - is that from records held at the NRO?  If so, there's probably no point in me approaching the Meeting House direct.

@ Seahall - Interesting - it might indicate that he married out of the Quakers and felt it appropriate to wait rather than risk estrangement from the family
Title: Re: Quakers in Wellingborough
Post by: jannergray on Sunday 06 November 11 13:09 GMT (UK)
Dear MajorD, WolfieSmith and seahall,

Thank you so much for your most helpful and interesting input here. I really appreciate it.

MajorD - I appreciate your thoughts. To me it seemed strange that Lot Garner, d1784 was recorded as not of our society. I thought he was a Quaker since his birth/baptism is recorded in September 1710 but I hadnt made the link that WoolfieSmith made with regards to the marriage date.

I wonder if Jane Grove wasnt a Quaker and this somehow took him out of active membership with the Quakers? The only reason I suspect that Lot and Jane were Quakers is that two of their children, Phillis Garner, born 1744 and Hannah Garner, born 1747 were not baptised until they married in 1768 and 1770 respectively.

I appreciate the info from the Northants Marriage Indexes seahall. That helps a lot. So I wonder if Jane Grove was a Quaker? And if not, it would be more that a coincidence that Lot didnt marry Jane until after the death of his Father, Lot senr.

If anyone can find out anything more on these interesting GARNERs I'd love to hear it!

All best wishes

Graham
Title: Re: Quakers in Wellingborough
Post by: WolfieSmith on Sunday 06 November 11 13:17 GMT (UK)
Hello all,

MajorD, Yes, from the original records.
 
If Lot was still a practising Quaker at the time that he married in Wellingborough Parish Church, then he would almost certainly have been expelled, as he would have broken a lot of the Quaker rules.
a. marrying outside of the faith, b. marrying in a non Quaker ritual in a non Quaker establishment, c. being married by a non Quaker official. 
Jane would also have been expelled if she were a practicing Quaker, but I would assume that she was not.
He will also have had to undergo baptism, as the Anglican Church would not marry you if you had not been baptized. A lot of (former) Quakers were baptized one day and married next.

He may still have held Quaker beliefs, eg. not believing in infant baptism for his own children.

Alan.
Title: Re: Quakers in Wellingborough
Post by: Sandy Hall on Sunday 06 November 11 16:18 GMT (UK)
He is not on the Anglican Baptisms as being baptised in Northamptonshire.

Sandy
Title: Re: Quakers in Wellingborough
Post by: Sandy Hall on Sunday 06 November 11 16:28 GMT (UK)
Possible baptism of Jane from Northants Bap Indexes.

Wellingborough C of E
03 Jan 1717
Jane GROVE d of John

Sandy                           
Title: Re: Quakers in Wellingborough
Post by: Lesley Rands on Friday 14 September 18 20:46 BST (UK)
Lot Garner is my 5th Great Grandfather so I would be grateful if anyone has any more information about Lot and Jane's Children.  I know they had Phyllis and Hannah but did they have any other children?