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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: CelticMom on Friday 28 October 11 19:51 BST (UK)
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I have been trying to find records for the following family. I can find them in the census' but can not locate baptisms for the children or marriage for the parents.
My 4xGreat Grandparents John Paulin born about 1800 in Horncliffe, Northumberland and his wife Mary (surname unknown) born about 1798 in Scremerston, Northumberland.
they had the following children all supposedly born in Norham according to census:
William Paulin abt 1826
Margaret Paulin abt 1830
Eleanor (or Helen) Cairns Paulin (my 3xgreat grandmother) born c1833
Thomas Paulin abt 1835
James Paulin 1838
Mary Paulin abt 1841
my 3xgreat grandmother married a John Small and I can find no marriage for them either all their children were born in Ancroft or Tweedmouth apart from my great great grandmother Mary Ann Small who was born in Sprouston in Roxburgshire in 1860. She is the second oldest.
I am basically trying to locate the marriage between John Small and Eleanor Paulin and then the marriage between Eleanor's parents John Paulin and Mary and then the baptisms of Eleanor and her siblings.
Any help would really be appreciated. I fear the trouble may be the surname is spelt in various different ways. I have already seen Eleanor as Helen, Eleanor and Elendor in the census and her daughter birth record. Surprisingly though in her daughter birth cert (Mary Ann Small born 1860 in Sprouston), she is as Elendor Cairns (no mention of Paulin), but all her other childrens birth certs both the eldest and the youngest she is Paulin.
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I think I may have found John Paulin's baptism on familysearch.
transcribed as Pallon, born 10 April 1801 in Norham, Northumberland
parents: William Pallon and Eleanor Riddle.
the names of the parents would tie in with his first son, who he named William and his daughter who he named Eleanor (my 3xgreat grandmother).
hmmmmm!!!
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Okay so now I have another one to add to the mix
John Paulin born 3rd May 1801
baptised at GOLDEN SQUARE PRESBYTERIAN OR SCOTCH CHURCH,BERWICK UPON TWEED,NORTHUMBERLAND,ENGLAND
parents William Paulin and Isobel.
so seeing as my John Paulin gave place of birth as Horncliffe in the census, which one is most likely to be him. John bapstised at Golden Square with parents William and Isobel or the one baptised at Norham transcribed as Pallon with parents William Pallon and Eleanor Riddle.
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Hi Shevy
I suppose it could be either but if they've used the traditional naming pattern then I would expect John's parents to be William and Eleanor and Mary's to be Margaret and Thomas. Of course, they could have totally ignored the tradition!
Which parishes have you looked in for John and Mary's marriage?
Christine
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Hi Christine,
Thank you for your reply.
unfortunately I am in Canada, so at present have only searched from the records available online and that is Familysearch, Ancestry and Findmypast.
What puts me off the William Pallon and Eleanor Riddle, is the fact the name is Pallon and not Paulin, when William married Eleanor it seems to be as Pallon as well. Strangely it appears they married 1776 which is quite a long time before 1801 and yet I can find no other childrens baptisms for them.
The William Paulin and Isobel had a daughter Eleanor, so the names are in both these families, not making it very easy.
I suppose I have to try and narrow down which one it is more likely to be if my John Paulin was born abt 1801 in Horncliffe in relation to the location of the baptisms.
I can't find John Paulin's married to his wife Mary and I also can not find the baptism of their daugther Eleanor Cairns Paulin, as well as Eleanor Cairns Paulin's marriage to John Small.
I am quite sure my Paulin's will lead back to Ladykirk, it is just working out where and whom. :D
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I wouldn't be too worried about spelling variations - they abound - but it's a nuisance that Eleanor occurs in both families. Why can't ancestors be more accommodating?
I generally spend one afternoon a week at Northumberland archives - planning to be there on Wednesday. If you can think of anything you want me to look for let me know. I can certainly check the Norham records to determine whether it says Pallin or Paulin.
Christine
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The baptism at Golden Square, Berwick.
John Paulin, son of William Paulin, Teacher in Berwick, and Isobel his wife, was born there May 3 1801, and baptized by Jn Blackhall, Minister.
The baptism at Norham,
John Pallon, born April 10 1801, baptized April 31 1801 (thats what it says, I know there is no 31st of April), son of William Pallon, native of Ladykirk N.B., by his wife Eleanor Riddle, native of Lowick.
If its a choice between the two, I'd go for John Pallon. Horncliffe is half way between Berwick and Norham, but John Paulin is stated as born Berwick.
Alan.
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I wouldn't be too worried about spelling variations - they abound - but it's a nuisance that Eleanor occurs in both families. Why can't ancestors be more accommodating?
I generally spend one afternoon a week at Northumberland archives - planning to be there on Wednesday. If you can think of anything you want me to look for let me know. I can certainly check the Norham records to determine whether it says Pallin or Paulin.
Christine
yep I dont normally take much notice of spelling variations, as have seen it very often with the unusual names in my tree lol, however because the name is Pallon on what appears to be both the baptism of the John and the marriage of William and Eleanor, it has raised doubts.
However I do know that the William Pallon is supposedly from Ladykirk, which ties him into the Paulin's of Ladykirk.
Why oh why can't it be simple eh? :P The Paulin side of my tree is starting to give me a headache, there are numerous of this line that I can not find records for.
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The baptism at Golden Square, Berwick.
John Paulin, son of William Paulin, Teacher in Berwick, and Isobel his wife, was born there May 3 1801, and baptized by Jn Blackhall, Minister.
The baptism at Norham,
John Pallon, born April 10 1801, baptized April 31 1801 (thats what it says, I know there is no 31st of April), son of William Pallon, native of Ladykirk N.B., by his wife Eleanor Riddle, native of Lowick.
If its a choice between the two, I'd go for John Pallon. Horncliffe is half way between Berwick and Norham, but John Paulin is stated as born Berwick.
Alan.
thank you ever so much for the more detailed transcripts Alan. Could I ask where you got the details?
from google maps it is about 8 mins from Horncliffe to Norham or 12 mins from Horncliffe to Berwick. It does look like the William Pallon and Eleanor are more likely, but who knows?? Not an easy one really.
Also can you see any other baptisms for children of William and Eleanor, as it seems they married in 1776, yet didn't have John until 1801.
I am still trying to find the marriage between my John Paulin and Mary (Unknown) and also any baptisms of their children, mainly Eleanor Cairns Paulin. I am wondering if perhaps Mary's maiden name is Cairns.
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Golden Square is from a subscription site.
Norham St Cuthbert (Anglican) church records are free to view on Familysearch at : Durham Bishops Transcripts - Durham - Norham.
About 200 pages, lots of gaps though. Worth checking for burials as well as baptisms, as some Presbyterian churches didn't have burial grounds.
The baptism is on page 83. I noticed on the previous page is a baptism of George Pallon, born Jan 28 1801, baptized April 12 1801. 1st son of James Pallon, Native of Ladykirk N.B., by his wife Mary Curie, Native of this Parish.
N.B. means North Britain, ie Scotland.
If Johns childrens baptisms aren't on there, they could have been at Norham Presbyterian. Some kind person might look them up for you.
Good luck.
Alan.
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Golden Square is from a subscription site.
Norham St Cuthbert (Anglican) church records are free to view on Familysearch at : Durham Bishops Transcripts - Durham - Norham.
About 200 pages, lots of gaps though. Worth checking for burials as well as baptisms, as some Presbyterian churches didn't have burial grounds.
The baptism is on page 83. I noticed on the previous page is a baptism of George Pallon, born Jan 28 1801, baptized April 12 1801. 1st son of James Pallon, Native of Ladykirk N.B., by his wife Mary Curie, Native of this Parish.
N.B. means North Britain, ie Scotland.
If Johns childrens baptisms aren't on there, they could have been at Norham Presbyterian. Some kind person might look them up for you.
Good luck.
Alan.
thank you. I will take a look tomorrow.
Can I ask what the subscription site is? Wondering it might be worth my while subscribing.
again thank you for your help.
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Shevy,
pm sent.
Alan.
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hmmm the baptisms for 1832/1833 seem to be missing on the Durham Bishops Transcripts on Familysearch for Norham.
was browsing trying to see if I could find Eleanor Cairns Paulin.
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Like Alan said - there's lots of gaps and not just in Norham.
I am still going to the archives on Wednesday, though, and would be happy to check out the gaps if you let me know which particular ones you want.
Presbyterian records are not fully represented so it will be pot luck on any of them but Church of England are not a problem.
Christine
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Like Alan said - there's lots of gaps and not just in Norham.
I am still going to the archives on Wednesday, though, and would be happy to check out the gaps if you let me know which particular ones you want.
Presbyterian records are not fully represented so it will be pot luck on any of them but Church of England are not a problem.
Christine
yep definately lots of gaps and typically the years I am looking at haha :)
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I can look up some things in my resource bag but I am on vacation and away from my office until Sunday.
Janis
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I can look up some things in my resource bag but I am on vacation and away from my office until Sunday.
Janis
Thank you Janis, that will be wonderful if you find anything that can help me.
Enjoy the rest of your vacation :)
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I do think I have given what I have found on the Paulin famiy on a different thread having to do with this family. Don't hold your breath that I will find amy more.
Janis
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I have been trying to find records for the following family. I can find them in the census' but can not locate baptisms for the children or marriage for the parents.
My 4xGreat Grandparents John Paulin born about 1800 in Horncliffe, Northumberland and his wife Mary (surname unknown) born about 1798 in Scremerston, Northumberland.
they had the following children all supposedly born in Norham according to census:
William Paulin abt 1826
Margaret Paulin abt 1830
Eleanor (or Helen) Cairns Paulin (my 3xgreat grandmother) born c1833
Thomas Paulin abt 1835
James Paulin 1838
Mary Paulin abt 1841
my 3xgreat grandmother married a John Small and I can find no marriage for them either all their children were born in Ancroft or Tweedmouth apart from my great great grandmother Mary Ann Small who was born in Sprouston in Roxburgshire in 1860. She is the second oldest.
I am basically trying to locate the marriage between John Small and Eleanor Paulin and then the marriage between Eleanor's parents John Paulin and Mary and then the baptisms of Eleanor and her siblings.
Any help would really be appreciated. I fear the trouble may be the surname is spelt in various different ways. I have already seen Eleanor as Helen, Eleanor and Elendor in the census and her daughter birth record. Surprisingly though in her daughter birth cert (Mary Ann Small born 1860 in Sprouston), she is as Elendor Cairns (no mention of Paulin), but all her other childrens birth certs both the eldest and the youngest she is Paulin.
Shevy I've got a copy of a letter sent to my father back in 1978 that lists a Helen Paulin born in 1829 at Horncliffe. the letter is signed by a mrs. stearns - is that your line ?
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I know Eleanor was also referred to as Helen, but 1829 is possibly too early for her birth. Does the letter name parents or give any other clues. I know Eleanor's father was apparently born inHorncliffe
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the letter included a reference to the 1851 census in Loanend, Parish of Norham.
John Paulin head married 49 fisherman Horncliffe
Mary Paulin wife married 52 fisherman Scremerston
William Paulin son unmarried 25 fisherman Norham Parish
Helen Cairns Paulin daughter unmarried 18 aglab Norham Parish
Thomas Paulin son unmarried 15 aglab Norham Parish
James Paulin son unmarried 12 scholar Norham Parish
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Yes that family in the census is mine. Eleanor (Helen) cairns Paulin is my 3xgreat grandmother
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Ladykirk, NB probably refers to Ladykirk, Berwickshire. I have a Margaret Paulin born 1754 and her family also came from Ladykirk in Berwickshire. As for alternate spelling, the church record showed Margaret's surname as PALEN and her father as George PALINE.
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Still struggling tracing this line backward backwards. I can't find any baptism for Helen and also do not know the mothers maiden name or any of the parents of her parents.
It is odd because Helen uses Cairns as her maiden name in a couple of her children's baptisms, but uses PAulin for everything else.
I of course still have the two possible baptisms for her father John Paulin/pallon but can't identify which one is definately him. If only I could find a marriage of he to Mary unknown. The records for this family appear to be Scarce. As no baptism for any of Eleanor's siblings can be found either and no marriage for Eleanor.
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Hi Rodrick,
ferndale here. I have done the DNA test but doubt I would be in there.. but I do have a cousin who would be in. She is now living in LA She is the other one I got a post from the same nite I met you.
Catch up soon, Dale.
ps I'll go have a look thru the DNA. byeee
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Hi All
My great grandfathers brother John Small married Elendor Cairns Paulin i have recorded in 1857: John died when he fell from Ramparts following a night out in Berwick Upon Tweed in 1892 i have read Coroners report and paper cuttings recording his death
Cheers Derrick
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Still struggling with this line.
Still not managed to confirm the parents of John Paulin or find the marriage of his daughters Eleanor Cairns Paulin to John Small or the baptisms of Johns children’s. It’s rather frustrating. No records can be found.
I have done the ancestry DNA so maybe I can connect it somehow that way by finding a descendant of a sibling, not sure how accurate that would be though.
I am sure the Cairns middle name must connect in somewhere.
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from GRO indexes to births, James Paulin 1838 and Mary Ann Paulin 1841 both registered Berwick on Tweed district, Mother's Maiden name BROWN.
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Can I ask how you got the mother’s maiden name? I didn’t see those births.
Thanks
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Hi,
It's a new(ish) facility on the GRO website.
Registration is free and you can order a PDF (£6) instead of certificates.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
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Hi,
It's a new(ish) facility on the GRO website.
Registration is free and you can order a PDF (£6) instead of certificates.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
Wow that’s really useful and might prove beneficial. Thanks
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So it looks likely that John is the son of William Pallon (ladykirk) and Eleanor Riddle (lowick) as it looks like the John born to William and Isobel died in infancy.
However the only marriage I can find for a William Pallon and Eleanor Riddle is 1776, that’s quite a jump to John born 1801 and I can’t locate any other siblings. So not sure if that is the correct marriage.
I do know that John Paulin born 1801 horncliffe married Mary Brown born 1798 Scremerston but again can’t locate that marriage either or baptisms for the children. I can only find births registered for the two youngest children which were after 1837 which was what helped me with Mary’s maiden name.
Thanks.
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Hello CelticMom! I happened across this thread and I have Paulins from Ladykirk in a collateral line: King. I totally understand your frustration with the issue of missing records. While I don't seem to have any specific tie-in to you, I do note that another generation or so back, there was a Small woman and, interestingly, it appears that some of these folks went to Canada. It does seem to me there would be a tie there, but, I also do not have enough specific dates to be certain. Some other surnames that have occurred in this Paulin family I have is Marshall and Paxton. Also, if any of you people died in Norham, there are some sources I have found detailing the Norham cemetery. Sorry to be so sketchy, but if you think I could possibly help you in any way, please don't hesitate to contact me. Sincerely, patrexjax
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Hello CelticMom! I happened across this thread and I have Paulins from Ladykirk in a collateral line: King. I totally understand your frustration with the issue of missing records. While I don't seem to have any specific tie-in to you, I do note that another generation or so back, there was a Small woman and, interestingly, it appears that some of these folks went to Canada. It does seem to me there would be a tie there, but, I also do not have enough specific dates to be certain. Some other surnames that have occurred in this Paulin family I have is Marshall and Paxton. Also, if any of you people died in Norham, there are some sources I have found detailing the Norham cemetery. Sorry to be so sketchy, but if you think I could possibly help you in any way, please don't hesitate to contact me. Sincerely, patrexjax
Thanks
I’d be happy of anything that might help me trace back further on this line.
Have you done a dna test? I do have some hits to those with Paulin in there tree but haven’t been able to find the connection as yet.
Someone did give me some dates of birth for Eleanor Cairns Paulin and siblings from a family bible they have but again can’t find any official records for them.
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So I’ve been looking at my DNA matches and it looks like my John Paulin is perhaps the son of William and Isobel Paulin not William and Eleanor as thought.
Strange as I found what I believe is a headstone for William and Isobel and it shows their son John died in infancy. There is a death to coincide with that it seems..
I have a dna match to someone with a Thomas Paulin in their tree who seems to be the son of William and Isobel and our dna match would make Thomas and my John brothers.
So I am now really confused because of headstone showing John dying in infancy.
Unless of course their are two families with a thomas and John born the same time as William and Isobel’s Thomas and John.
I’m baffled.
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Also looking at my DNA matches my Paulin matches seem to connect back to Quebec which is interesting.
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Hello again CelticMom! No, I have not had my DNA tested. I have so many William Paulins in my data base that I can't seem to spot the one that your DNA seems linked to. Do yo have an approximation for either his or Isobel, his wife's, birth year and/or place? I am still trying to determine how to give you more of my Paulin information, if you think it might help you... patrexjax
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"Also looking at my DNA matches my Paulin matches seem to connect back to Quebec which is interesting. "
One of my maternal aunts married a Paulin. Early 1930s. He was from Wales originally, I think. They lived in Gosforth. My cousins have done family research and think the name Paulin was originally french, so that would explain the Quebec connection.