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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: paulmh on Sunday 30 October 11 15:47 GMT (UK)

Title: W.Robertson
Post by: paulmh on Sunday 30 October 11 15:47 GMT (UK)
Can anyone please help me trace information on a former footballer (soccer) called W.Robertson who played for Sheffield United between 1889 to 1891. He was known as 'Dundee Robertson' as that is understood where he hailed from - he was defiantly from Scotland but his first name and other information isn't known about him.

However he played an influential part in the clubs' history, believably he was the first player to sign for the club. The club was formed on 22 March 1889 and many of the new players came from Scotland as United were a professional club and football clubs north of the boarder were either semi or amateur.

He was the first player to score for the club (a friendly against Nottingham Rangers on 7 September 1889) and the first to score a hat-trick as well as the first player to be sent-off for the club.

The Who's Who of Sheffield United (published in 2008) says that very little is known about him despite playing 38 times for United - only 11 in the FA Cup as they wasn't a Football League club until 1892.

In its last paragraph it says; 'As the 1890-91 season progressed, he steadily played fewer games and at the end, he left and the contemporary local newspapers never reported why or whether he would play for another team! At some time however, he certainly went to Canada as there was a report in September 1908 that he was coaching in Haileybury, a remote part of Ontario.'

From my records he would have still been with United during the 1891 census, his last known game for the Blades was in the Midland Counties League - a semi-professional league away from the Football League. He played at #4 (defender) in a 3-1 loss at Burslem Port Vale on Monday, 13th April 1891.
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: JDC on Sunday 30 October 11 17:29 GMT (UK)
good afternoon paulmh,

Haileybury is located in northeastern Ontario, north of Sudbury and North Bay along Hwy 11 - you can see it on googl map. I didn't find info on him, but it would be easier if you provided more info on him - birth date, parents and/or siblings names and vital BMD info, passenger list, etc.. You can check this site (www.ahtomatedgenealogy.com) to check for him on 1901 and 1911 census transcription (1921 not available yet).  Hope this helps.

JDC
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: JDC on Sunday 30 October 11 17:32 GMT (UK)
Hi again,

Sorry, should have been http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/.

JDC
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: cosmac on Sunday 30 October 11 17:55 GMT (UK)
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=87063&highlight=32&desc=1911+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+Agness+Robertson

There is a William Robertson in Haileybury on the 1911 census but he was born in Ontario.  Married to Agnes Paul 29 Oct 1897 Lanark County.  His parents were Janet and James Robertson.  William's middle name was Mackenzie.  This William had 2 children that I can find birth records for.  Ethel Alice b Oct `15, 1905 Lanark and Arthur Cranston b. Jan 18, 1901 Lanark.

On the 1901 census William, Agnes and Arthur are still residing in Lanark County
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/View.jsp?id=69350&highlight=45&desc=1901+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+William+M.+Robertson

Could just be a coincidence of name and location.  I didn't check the 1891 Canadian census yet to see if William is residing with parents or in the Lanark area.

Debbie
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: paulmh on Sunday 30 October 11 18:20 GMT (UK)
Sadly he is only known as W - no forenames/dob etc is known. All that is known is that he was Scottish and later in life he moved to Canada.
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: cosmac on Sunday 30 October 11 18:30 GMT (UK)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~murrayp/timiskam/bucke/mt_plea2/roberts4.jpg
William and Agnes in the Mount Pleasant Cemetery Bucke Township

1891 census (taken April 6) for Ramsey Township, Lanark 26 year old William with parents (mother's name is Janet Watt from a sister's marriage record) and siblings Jenny, George and Ernest.
I'm not picking him up on the 1881
1871 for Ramsay, Lanark he is with parents and siblings John, Margaret S., Robert C., and Jane K.

Debbie
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: valeriec on Sunday 30 October 11 19:24 GMT (UK)
If you look at
http://automatedgenealogy.com
Ontario/Nipissing/Haileybury

There is another Wm. Robertson, b. 1865, Scotland, immigrated 1901/1902 ?, hard to read, Presbyterian, carpenter.
He is a companion to Ed Blacklock, b. England, 1866, tailor

I would try to find more info on this pair as the age is about right and also born in Scotland immigrating in early 1900's.

I would look for a public library/genealogy group in the Nipissing area of Ontario to see if they can come up with anything. You can look at the original docs at automated genealogy and may be able to make out more info.
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: J.J. on Monday 31 October 11 16:14 GMT (UK)
The publication "Hailyburian" should have some of coach Robertson's information.
Thought he might have coached for the college but can't see anything... http://www.archive.org/stream/haileyburycolleg00milfrich#page/276/mode/2up
Just a blurb on the Haileybury Wanderers' Football Club but no coaches mentioned   p.310  http://www.archive.org/stream/haileyburycolleg00milfrich#page/396/mode/2up
Haileybury Public Library  545 Lakeshore Rd., Haileybury ON CAN



Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: paulmh on Monday 31 October 11 16:22 GMT (UK)
I am interested in William Robertson, that could be him. I am trying to find out more through there library and other avenues so hopefully I'll find more out soon.
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: J.J. on Monday 31 October 11 16:27 GMT (UK)
Although they were coincidently both carpenters and of similar age, that the one found by valerie, without the middle name who said he immigrated from Scotland would be the one to chase down not the one married and living in Canada since a young age, says born Ontario on census...
( the 2nd one found, in case you did not look, with image in split view ) I believe Debbie was showing you that the original one was accounted for...    http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=87000
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: J.J. on Monday 31 October 11 17:26 GMT (UK)
Did find a chapter on football in that publication, but again coaches aren't listed. Their seasons into the 20th century weren't too successful...
http://www.archive.org/stream/haileyburycolleg00milfrich#page/196/mode/2up
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: paulmh on Friday 04 November 11 13:41 GMT (UK)
Although they were coincidently both carpenters and of similar age, that the one found by valerie, without the middle name who said he immigrated from Scotland would be the one to chase down not the one married and living in Canada since a young age, says born Ontario on census...
( the 2nd one found, in case you did not look, with image in split view ) I believe Debbie was showing you that the original one was accounted for...    http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=87000

This is obviously saying that in 1911 (if it is the correct W.Robertson) that he was still in the area and judging by the Wm his name was William. (As for Scottish names it could be Willie, William or Walter). He is accompanied with Ed(ward) Blacklock and suggests that he was aged 46 (b.1865), that would mean he was 24 when he first signed for United.

I have a feeling that this is likely to be the man I am searching for but obviously more research is required. Id I can only get hold of newspaper reports about him as a footballer in Canada then that may confirm these findings.

Thank you to everyone who has helped.
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: paulmh on Friday 04 November 11 13:45 GMT (UK)
Did find a chapter on football in that publication, but again coaches aren't listed. Their seasons into the 20th century weren't too successful...
http://www.archive.org/stream/haileyburycolleg00milfrich#page/196/mode/2up

Again, thank you for your help. I think currently that the 1911 census is the best possible route to look at.
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: J.J. on Friday 04 November 11 14:30 GMT (UK)
I still suggest that you modify to remove the middle name in reply number eight as you stated you were interested in the information on that person and so someone may follow it up or a descendant may think this about his or her ancestor. Have you received a reply from the Haileybury library?
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: paulmh on Sunday 06 November 11 09:09 GMT (UK)
I still suggest that you modify to remove the middle name in reply number eight as you stated you were interested in the information on that person and so someone may follow it up or a descendant may think this about his or her ancestor. Have you received a reply from the Haileybury library?

Middle name changed. I have sent out a few emails but sadly I haven't received any positive replies yet - though I appreciate that it is a very difficult subject to research.
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: J.J. on Monday 07 November 11 00:01 GMT (UK)
http://www.nt.net/~timetrav/ The Haileyburian  (1906 - 1961 incomplete collection many papers missing) I told you about earlier...you may luck out if they can find something on you...a small donation in return for their work in perusing their issues...email and mailing address both on page...
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: paulmh on Monday 13 August 12 10:24 BST (UK)
I know that it has been sometime since I posted this but I have nothing more on him - I thought I had but further reserach proved dead and useless. I am therefore hoping that someone can come up with new ideas as at the moment I have no idea where to turn.
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: J.J. on Monday 13 August 12 16:44 BST (UK)
Did you write for more information on the The Haileyburian as linked in my last post? It would seem rather odd that a coach of his caliber would not be in there, and at the very least lauded for his past career in Scotland upon arrival to the school? Researchers were also listed on the page...
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: paulmh on Wednesday 15 August 12 12:45 BST (UK)
Did you write for more information on the The Haileyburian as linked in my last post? It would seem rather odd that a coach of his caliber would not be in there, and at the very least lauded for his past career in Scotland upon arrival to the school? Researchers were also listed on the page...

I tried but didn't recieve a reply.
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 15 August 12 14:09 BST (UK)
There are researchers listed on page!!... you contacted them?  Reading again...am wondering, is this family or info for a publication? You didn't even know the subject's forename until we found him on census.

You could also ask the northern newspaper if they have anything on his coaching career, or an obit...

At the very least ask what the fees are for lookups on the fellow, if he was such a young star and you think he deserves recogniton...You'll need to put up some funds to get these results as they are not available to us.
Title: Re: W.Robertson
Post by: paulmh on Thursday 16 August 12 08:06 BST (UK)
This reserach is for football historians and helping to understand the history of Sheffield Utd. I shall look into this further and see what I can find