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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: scottwalker01 on Tuesday 01 November 11 12:11 GMT (UK)
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Hi Guys
I am visiting London in November from Australia and am a direct ancestor of John Walker born in Shefford 1804, baptised in Campton on 13th December 1804. I would like to visit Shefford and hopefully look through sites of significance to John.
I have worked out that potentially that John's father was also a John and his mother a Mary. John's son, George moved to Australia from where I came about.
John moved to London and married in 1827 to a Emily Atkins (St John the Baptist Finsbury). Following this John married a Selina Sibley in 1834 (St Anns Aldergate) and had son George. I look forward to visiting these churchs and hope they are still standing.
There is a witness on the marriage certificate of John and Emily which refers to a Elizabeth Walker, potentially a sister of John's.
If anyone could assist with further details of John Walker or his ancestors in Shefford including sites of potential significant in Shefford it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Scott Walker
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I dont know if you already have this, but here he is in 1851
3 Grays Buildings Hackney
John 46 watchmaker bn Beds Shelford
Selena 39 bn London
Richard 14 bn Clerkenwell
Selina 12 bn Clerkenwell
William11 bn Clerkenwell
Maria 10 bn HAckney
Thomas 6 bn Stoke Newington
George 1 bn Stoke Newington
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And some christenings - (maybe another church or 2 to visit!)
5 April 1835
Clerkenwell St John
John Sibley Walker bn 25 Feb 1835
Parents John and Selina Walker
4 Red Lion Street
occ: clock maker
15 Aug 1836
Clerkenwell St John
Richard Walker bn 19 May 1836
Parents, address, occ as before
21 Sep 1851
Shoreditch St Leonard
Caroline Julia Walker bn 2 Sep 1851
parents John and Selina of Haggerstone
CLock maker
As for getting the most from your visit - I konw I would spend a day at the record office wherever the Shefford and neighbouring parishes Parish Registers are held, and look for the chr of John and hopefully siblings too, and then look for his parents marriage .. and hoping they stay in the same area back as far as you can!
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The baptisms of John and two siblings in Campton have been extracted onto the IGI and Scott has been given details on http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,190370.new.html#new . John and Mary are shown as the parents so there doesn't seem to be much doubt if Scott has a baptism date of 13 Dec 1804 from an independent source.
There are no Walker burials in Campton between 1790 and 1851 where my source finishes, so it looks as though John and Mary moved away from Campton.
Nor is there a marriage in Campton of a John Walker and Mary, so we're immediately running into problems.
Still looking at them!
David
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Firstly Liz, thankyou for your information (which I already have). I only have a day to myself in England and look forward to walking around Shefford. Hopefully I will be able to find something at the parish register, but also interested in the local history as from other research there appears to be many Walker's in the area. Cursed by the common name though but looking forward to the visit.
Secondly David, thankyou for the baptism information. I will use this as a basis for further research and hopefully be able to come up with something useful for my visit.
The link below does refer to a John and Mary Walker in Bedfordshire. Hopefully this will provide a few more answers but unfortunately the dates are slighty out.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,244561.0.html
Thankyou both for your generousity with my research.
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I think the Marston Moretaine thread is a red herring. That John and Mary didn't marry until 1808, by which time your couple had baptised three children in Campton. And that John Walker was a bachelor in 1808 so it's not a case of a second marriage for him.
The parish register is in Bedford Archives, not in Shefford/Campton, but we know from the IGI that they didn't marry in Campton.
I have an idea which I'm working on and will post more later once I've finished breakfast, taken son and heir to school, got puncture fixed, and picked up my free bus pass to which I'm now entitled due to advanced age!
David
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If you're going to be walking around Shefford then maybe you'd find this site useful, if you haven't already found it.
http://www.sheffordtown.co.uk/
It describes walks telling you about the historical bits :)
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We know that John and Mary Walker baptised three children in Campton between 1804 and 1808, that they weren’t married there, that they weren’t buried there (at least before 1851), and that they weren’t living there in either 1841 or 1851
We also know that their son baptised children in Clerkenwell
There’s a marriage at Old Warden on 20 Jun 1793 between John Walker of St James, Clerkenwell, Middlesex and Mary Inskip. (Old Warden transcript, which doesn't include witnesses). Old Warden and Lower Caldecote are only three miles apart. The marriage licence shows “John Walker of St.James, Clerkenwell, Middx., and Mary Inskip of Old Warden, to be married at Old Warden. Archbishop of Canterbury's licence. 12 June 1793” (http://apps.bedscc.gov.uk/bedsccis3/search.aspx)
BLARS holds a property document:
Lease and Release 8 & 9 October 1804
1) James Tingey, now of Langford, (Mortgagor & Vendor)
2) Samuel Tingey (Mortgagee)
3) John Walker of Shefford, Gent (Purchaser)
4) William Inskip of Lower Caldecote, Farmer (Trustee)
Above property to be held by William Inskip to the use of 3)
Until the money fully paid
Consideration £1369 paid by 3)(£1323 to S.Tingey (£500 to be paid after three years); balance to 1)
Why did John Walker pick William Inskip as the trustee? Was there a connection between the two of them? Might William Inskip have been John Walker’s father in law? If so where were John and Mary between 1793 and 1804?
Pure speculation, but I don't like coincidences, especially when there are two of them! I’m still working on it, but would appreciate it if anyone/someone with a fresh pair of eyes would give me their views.
The best that can be said is that I might be on to something. On the other hand I might not!
David
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Hi Chris
Thanks for the info - very informative. I will be without wife and kids that day so hope it has a good pub. Would be good if I can link a building or street to John but will see how we go.
Have tried to go backwards then forwards to verify details of John.
There is a William Inskip born 1754 and baptised at St George the Martyr Queen Sq. this is near Clerkenwell, a seemingly Walker stronghold for my Walkers until George left for Australia. William would also be of the vintage to have a daughter of marriagble age in 1793 (just). Maybe he returned to Bedfordshire which seemed to be thick with Inskips at that time (but no doubt every district was thick with every name). A long bow on both fronts but hoping to build a case sufficient to support David's advice (thankyou I really appreciate you going to the effort).
Will keep looking and let you know what I come up with
Scott Walker
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There is a a second possibility.
There is a William Inskip who was born in Haynes in 1753 and had a son William born in 1782 and daughter Mary born in 1777 (both born in Campton)
William senior died in 1786 in Shefford, so Dave maybe the William you identified was Mary's brother/John's brother in law
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With Inskips thick on the ground in Beds I don't really fancy the London William.
I'd rather do some more digging into the farmer in Lower Caldecote to see where that leads. It might lead to Haynes and Campton, who knows.
David
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There’s a marriage at Old Warden on 20 Jun 1793 between John Walker of St James, Clerkenwell, Middlesex and Mary Inskip. (Old Warden transcript, which doesn't include witnesses).
David; should have gone to specsavers....
OK I know generally the PR transcript does not show witnesses - but I was looking at the Old Warden transcript this morning and underneath this marriage entry, clearly stated is Witnesses: Thomas Inskip, Sarah Whitney, William Inskip, Rebecca Whitney, Thomas Day.
So why make an exception here ? Were they of some standing ?
Cheers John
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..... which leads me to my this tangent...
John Walker, junior when found in Clerkenwell is a clock/watch maker, & seems to be of some repute; Is he the one buried Norwood Cemetery, 2 Feb 1879 age 75 & has a Probate Calendar entry dated 18/3/1879 with an estate worth less £30,000.
OK so where did he acquire those skills ? - could be by association with Thomas Inskip, watchmaker of Shefford (1780 1849), neighbour of Robert Bloomfield, poet of Shefford, whose MI's are side by side in All Saints Campton cum Shefford.
While Thomas Inskip is listed in BHRS vol 70 Bedfordshire clock & watch makers, John Walker is not.
Any thoughts on this ?
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next ...
Banns at Old Warden... 21 Apr 1776 William Inskip & Sarah Gregory of Clifton
Marriage at Clifton....29 Jun 1776 William Inskip of Old Warden, bach to Sarah Gregory, spinster
Baptism at Campton..11 Oct 1777 Mary Inskip, daughter of William & Sarah
Now was it OK for Mary to get married at age 16+ As a minor would that be the reason for marriage licence ? & no it was not listed in the marriage licence transcript, before you ask.
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I wondered exactly the same thing about Thomas watchmaker in Shefford - I came at him via the probate index books in 1850 where he's described as watchmaker. Was he perhaps apprenticed to Thomas. But if the Walkers moved away after 1808 he'd be too young. I put it on the back burner as I couldn't prove anything
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David; should have gone to specsavers....
So why make an exception here ? Were they of some standing ?
Cheers John
It's the exception that proves the rule. And I've no idea how I failed to spot the witnesses, other than your very astute observation that I should have gone to Specsavers!. I don't understand why Bedford Record Office should have added them just for this one marriage - they don't seem to have been that gentrified
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John/David
Thankyou so much for your assistance with this. You have found out more in a day or two than I have in over 3 years.
John - clockmaker of some repute, what do you mean by this?
Would it be possible if you could advise the name of the cemetery where John is buried (if indeed it is the John that I am related to). I will be in London in a fortnight and am hoping to spend a day in Shefford having a look about using the information you have found for me.
John lived in 4 Red Lion St in 1835 and was still listed as a Clock Manufacturer. IN 1826 he was living either with or near his first wife's father (Michael Atkins). Red Lion St which seemed to be a street if watch/clock makers.
In 1851 he was living at 3 Grays Building Hackney. IN 1861 he was living at 21 Gloucester St Clerkenwell.
Thanks again
Scott
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Would it be possible if you could advise the name of the cemetery where John is buried (if indeed it is the John that I am related to).
As John said, that particular John Walker was buried at Norwood cemetery - full detail: South Metropolitan Cemetery, (West Norwood Cemetery), Norwood Road, Lambeth.
His abode was given as The Grumbles, Upper Hamilton Terrace. Which ties up neatly with the Probate entry that John found, where he was described as late of Cornhill in the City of London and of the Gables, Upper Hamilton Terrace, St John's Wood, a watch, clock and chronometer maker. The executor was Teresa Walker, daughter, spinster, which is odd as I can't see her in censuses. Nor can I find the family in 1871
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David, In 1871 they are transcribed as WALSON. there is John & wife Selina, plus son Thomas age 27, daughter Julia 19 & grand-daughter Emily 13 are at Goswell Street, St James Clerkenwell. I found them yesterday & posted correction with Anc*
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Thanks John. Shalln't bother to go to specsavers in the morning after all.
But who was Teresa? Might there have been two John Walker clockmakers. The probate was the first mention of Cornhill
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Found the following .... is it relevant ?
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/archive/index.php/t-15413.html
There is a Probate entry for a Teresa Walker, spinster of an hotel in South Kensington who died 11 Feb 1931 with estate just over £6000. The death index has her age 85 so born 1846. But I have not found her on any census 1881 - 1901.
There are 2 birth index for Theresa Walker in 1846 in London/Middlesex
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I've had a gut feeling about the death of John Walker in 1879 all along. Something just doesn't smell right - perhaps the red herring has gone off! But nothing seems to add up. John Walker of Cornhill was allegedly operating from 1840-1895, so that's an immediate anomaly.
I wouldn't be traipsing down to West Norwood just yet!
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OK - I agree, the John Walker of Cornhill is not our man.....
I think our one from Shefford died 1871 - 1876, but I've not found that...
There's another Probate record, this time dated 29 Feb 1876 for Selina Walker, widow died 17 Jan 1876, late of 82 St John Street Clerkenwell, to Richard Walker, watch maker, the son & next of kin. Estate < £100.
Her death index in Mar 1876 Holborn, London at age 64.
On 1881 at that address is Richard Walker b 1837 Watch Maker Examiner with wife Sarah & family.
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Now that adds up! Clerkenwell was our John's patch, not St John's Wood/Cornhill
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Hi Guys
John - regarding the forum you have found unfortunately it is not relevant. George Walker (son of John) emigrated to Brisbane, Australia leaving London in 1875 and arriving in 1876. Unfortunately his wife, Ruth contracted a disease during the trip (on board the Gauntlet) and died I believe at the quarantine station at Peel Island. After that George remarried and continued in his trade as a carpenter with his children by Ruth being Matilida, George Jnr and my great great grandfather James Carnegie Walker.
George died in Brisbane in 6 July 1934 and was buried in Brisbane (confirmed via death certificate). George lived most of his life in Brisbane with some travels out to Western Qld.
Thanks for the thoughts anyway.
Also excited about another place to visit in London. I am staying in Westminster, and all the addresses found to date for the Walkers is centered around a couple of klm radius around Clerkenwell.
So to sum up it looks like you have been able to confirm the wedding date of John's father and mother and link this substantially to John Walker jnr, father of George. So there is another generation I can go back to.
I know this must of taken a bit of time, and whilst unlikely, if you would like me to follow up any research requests in Australia please let me know.
Thanks again
Scott
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Hello, I am wondering if you are still investigating John Walker? My line of enquiry is Thomas Inskip the watchmaker who married into my family vis Isabella Wright. I am wondering how he came to live in Shefford which may have been after meeting John's father. Thanks, Colin