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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: collin on Thursday 03 November 11 16:24 GMT (UK)

Title: Grandads Service Record
Post by: collin on Thursday 03 November 11 16:24 GMT (UK)
Hi
    Grandad was in the RHA & RFA 1908- 1919  I asked a professional to find his records but was told he was not on the list so I asked the NA at Kew  Why can't I find my Grandads records?
 I had written to the MOD at Bourne Avenue Hayes in 1984 and they provided the dates of his
postings to South Africa India & Mesapotamia so I assumed his records had survived.
 Kew just said that many records had been destroyed so I replied saying that I felt my question
had not been answered, where had the MOD got the information from? as all their stuff had gone to Kew, I didn't get a reply.
I wrote again to Hayes in 2009 asking what records they had held but the reply came from
Glasgow who had taken over in 2002 there is no record of what they held only that it had all gone to Kew.  Wonder if any of you experts might know where the info came from? (it's not on
his medal card,got that)
 Thanks a lot   Glyn
Title: Re: Grandads Service Record
Post by: km1971 on Thursday 03 November 11 21:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Glyn

There are only medal index cards, 'WW1 service Records' and/or 'WW1 pension files'.  Kew have removed themselves from the picture as regards the last two as they no longer provide access to any records, as these are on Ancestry (1914 to 1920) or Findmypast (before 1914). Instead they provide free access to these sites via terminals.

The MOD obviously had information in 1984 that has now disappeared. You really need to find out from the MOD what information they have sent to 'Kew' since then. If none then they have lost it. They could be just quoting the party line that they only have records for men discharged after 1920 - I believe that the official cut-off was 20 August 1920. But everyone knows that there are miss-files with records from the 1920s in with WW1 and even in pre-WW1. So it stands to reason that these post 1920s records contain ones from WW1.

You could try firepower.org.uk which is the museum of the RA. But I believe they charge.

Ken
Title: Re: Grandads Service Record
Post by: collin on Thursday 03 November 11 22:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Ken
           thanks for that, something to work on.   I found out the 1984 letter, my Gran was still
alive then and we had to send her marriage certificate before they gave us the info and it states
 there are no photographs in the service record so it definitley existed then.
 We also got Grandads brothers details and his record can't be traced either!
 Best wishes Glyn
Title: Re: Grandads Service Record
Post by: andycand on Thursday 03 November 11 23:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Glyn

As Ken said, surviving WW1 records are now online, if you post details of his name and service number then they might be online. Some 60% to 70% of WW1 Service Records were destroyed by fire during WW2 but if you got some information in 1984 then it sounds like your grandfathers survived. It would appear that there was a lot of filing errors in the records as when records started to appear online they initially only went up to the letter M or N but there were quite a few later records that obviously had been filed amongst the letters processed.

Andy               
Title: Re: Grandads Service Record
Post by: collin on Friday 04 November 11 10:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Andy
            I go to our local library to search as I don't subscribe to any now. I could'nt find anything.
 Grandad was Driver 51925 George Collin RHA  and his brother  Joseph was Pte 5/3030
 Connaught Rangers, they gave me his posting dates in 1984 too but now there's no trace of
either of them, unless it's me?
  Thanks   Glyn
Title: Mesapotamia
Post by: collin on Thursday 01 November 18 18:51 GMT (UK)
Hi
     My Grandad was born 11 November 1890 so WWl ended on his 28th birthday but we don't know where he was at the time other than Mesapotamia, I would like to know if there is a way to find out?.
We know he ran off to join the RHA age 17 in 1908 and joined for six years, when his time expired he was given the option to settle in Australia or go home, he thought it his duty to go back to see his mother but while waiting for the boat WWl began.
He was in South Africa 1909-1911
India 1911-1916 and
Mesapotamia 1916-1919
I don't know his unit only that he was in Z battery in 1911 at Potchefstroom SA. His medal card says RHA and RFA and don't know when the change happened. He had malaria in India and was discharged sick in 1919 as he was having epileptic fits.
He was 51925 Driver George Collin RHA
Many thanks
Title: Re: Mesapotamia
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 01 November 18 18:59 GMT (UK)
Your other thread

now merged

also

http://www.circlecity.co.uk/wartime/board/index.php?page=195


Saves others looking for anything that has already been found etc.
Title: Re: Mesapotamia
Post by: MaxD on Thursday 01 November 18 19:43 GMT (UK)
As I believe you have been informed on other boards (I can recall looking him up myself) the only extant records now are his medal records.  I can see the frustration of information available in the past now being lost (his medal card has a 1984 date stamp on it suggesting that someone looked it up then).  As you have seen, he is listed as RFA and RHA.  Not entirely out of the question for someone to transfer from one to the other.

Frankly, as again someone has already said, the service records from the Great War, if they survived, are on Ancestry and/or FindMyPast, or, as no doubt happens, have got lost somewhere.  You'll be aware that the same fate has befallen the records of your Connaught Ranger relative that you posted about recently.

The suggestion was made that his records may be with the post 1921 records still with MOD.  I'll check and let you know.
  I can't, I lost them in a disastrous computer crash 3 weeks ago and I don't remember now where I got them from!

Suggestion - make a new thread simply asking if someone has the registers of post 1920 service records to please look for his number and/or name.  No need to go into the background.

MaxD
Title: Re: Mesapotamia
Post by: collin on Thursday 01 November 18 22:05 GMT (UK)
I had forgotten about the earlier posts which just shows how good you are! I have been invited to go to our local church to light a candle for the brother who was killed at Loos and thought it would be nice to know where grandad was on Armistice Day. I wrote to Glasgow but they said that they had no record of him as his service ended before 1921. I should let it go now as I can't take it any further
  Thank you
Title: Re: Grandads Service Record
Post by: whiteout7 on Friday 02 November 18 08:46 GMT (UK)
"In June 1916, 7th (Meerut) Cavalry Brigade (complete with V Battery, RHA) left the division and was reformed for service in Mesopotamia. Other than the Battle of the Somme in 1916 (Battle of Bazentin Ridge, 14–17 July and Battle of Flers-Courcelette, 15–22 September) and the Battle of Cambrai in 1917, the division was not involved in battle. Instead, it was held in reserve in case of a breakthrough, although it did send parties to the trenches on a number of occasions. They would hold the line, or act as Pioneers; such parties were designated as, for example, the Mhow Battalion."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XVII_Brigade,_Royal_Horse_Artillery

The only mention of Mesapotamia I can find with RHA, so was he V Battery RHA?

Forces War Records.com index  has:

George   Collin   51925   Driver   1919   Royal Field Artillery   
George   Collin   51925   Driver   1914   Royal Field Artillery

(Would the 1914 be attestation and the 1919 be discharge??)
https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/search

He had no middle name just George Collins? Did the medal Card not have another service number on it besides 51925? Did the medal card have a first theatre of battle? Can you search by birth place?

?? George   Collin   —   —   1088300   —
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-Records/royal-artillery-attestations-1883-1942
Title: Re: Mesapotamia
Post by: MaxD on Friday 02 November 18 09:17 GMT (UK)
You have certainly done as much as is possible and, if I may say so, in doing so have honoured his memory already by your persistence. Light two candles!

Best

MaxD
Title: Re: Grandads Service Record
Post by: collin on Friday 02 November 18 10:39 GMT (UK)
Thank you MaxD
We always go to the 11am service but this year they are having one in church at 6.30 to light a candle for each of the 39 local lads
Title: Re: Grandads Service Record
Post by: collin on Friday 02 November 18 10:49 GMT (UK)
Thank you to whiteout7 for the information
The medal card says RHA 51925 and see sec B  A Reserve
underneath is x RFA/3478 4693
Also on the 1984 letter it just says RHA Regular Army
In India 14/12/11----15/7/16
Mesapotamia 16/7/16-----28/1/19
He told my uncle that he did his fighting in Mesapotamia their job was to take the guns up to the front to create an umbrella for the troops to advance under and he also did a bit of lancing on horseback
Thank you
Title: Re: Grandads Service Record
Post by: collin on Friday 02 November 18 10:56 GMT (UK)
I checked out the one on Findmypast, he was 1946