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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: loudam on Thursday 03 November 11 20:22 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know what surname this would have translated to, the most obvious one to me is Longford......
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the Ní means it's a daughter - I think Longford would usually be written as in Irish as Longfort, but maybe this is a phonetic spelling by someone ?
Shane
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according to this page (http://archaeology.about.com/od/lterms/qt/longphort.htm) on Irish Archaeology a longphort was the '..name of a permanent stronghold constructed by the Vikings on the shores and riverbanks of Ireland...' (plural longphuirt)
Maybe how the town of Longford derived it's name ?
Shane
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It actually means Lankford!!! ;D https://www.familysearch.org/search/records#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Alongford~%20%2Bany_place%3Acork~%20%2Bany_year%3A1933-1933
I searched in a way that it didn't give the english version of it!
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Never heard of that surname before - there are a few BMD registration for it (as Lankford & Langford) though, most seem to be in Cork
I still think Ní Longphuirt derives from the Irish for Longford though!
Maybe someone making an Gaelic version of their surname Lankford came up with this ?
Shane
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Thats what I've just been thinking, is it a case that it's an Irish entry and someone translated it, I think I might actually get it just to see whats on it! As far as I know this particular family were very much into their Irishness!!
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the plot thickens... according to a Surname Database website (http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Langford) (surnamedb.com) '...Recorded in several spellings including Langford, Lankford, and Longford, this is an English locational surname. It ultimately derives from any of the places called Langford or Longford in the counties of Bedfordshire, Devonshire, Essex, Norfolk, Nottinghamshire, Oxfordshire, Somerset and Wiltshire...'.
McLysaght gives similar details 'Langford..English toponomic, mainly in South Munster.. came to Ulster in 16thC and later established mainly in counties Limerick & Kerry..'
toponomic = derived from a place name
Shane
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It actually means Lankford!!! ;D https://www.familysearch.org/search/records#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Alongford~%20%2Bany_place%3Acork~%20%2Bany_year%3A1933-1933
I searched in a way that it didn't give the english version of it!
No, the results from LDS database search doesn't mean that the surname means Lankford. If you put in a particular surname (such as Ní Longphuirt) it will show results for that surname and similar ones (such as Lankford, Longford...).
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Both the Lankford and the Ni Longphuirt have the same Volume and page numbers so they appear to match, but that could be just as simple as someone doing the translation!
At this stage I've nothing to loose to get it, next step is tell the family their mother didn't exist!! ;D
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some people on the 1911 census in Cork with similar spelling - father has his full name in English as Lankford, everything else on the form is in Irish, with surname as Lonchphuirt
Lankford / Lonchphuirt household (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__3_Urban/Ashburton_Hill/385338/)
Shane
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Possibly the same family that the birth record is from a few years later
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And there is always the possibility of transcriptions being phonetic.
Longford GAA website give this:
Club Name: Longford; As Gaeilge: An Longfort - Shane's first thought...
However goireland.ie has it like this:(I think its originally from McLysaghts Surnames of Ireland)
.....O Fearghaill (O'Farrell or O'Ferrall) sept was of Annaly in Col Longford. The chief to the sept, known as Lord of Annaly, resided at Longphuirt Ui Fhearghaill (I.e. O'Farrell's fortress), hence the name of the town and county.......
So maybe it changed when the Teanga was standardised.....
PM
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I think in those years Irish transaltions were probably a bit hit and miss too...
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If I'm reading the census form correctly it looks like Charles was born in An Dúna - Co. Down. Everyone else born Contae Chorcaí
cant find a marriage for him c1889
Shane
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It does look like that doesn't it! It's lovely to see it wrote in Irish, my dad was only saying recently how he loved that way of writing Irish..
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here's the same family 10 years earlier - everything in English..
Lankford - 1901 (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/North_East_Ward/Spring_Place/1103071/)
Shane
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That census of Charles gives the mother in law as :Ní Phléidhmionn Eibhlín 91 Female which is pretty creative, and possibly unique!
PM
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That census of Charles gives the mother in law as :Ní Phléidhmionn Eibhlín 91 Female which is pretty creative, and possibly unique!
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was just trying to work that out - but my Irish has failed me..
Shane
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It certainly makes you wonder, I'd imagine the mother in law was the one responsible for the census!!
Strange though that theres no Lankford marriage in 1889 or a year either side
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according to the census everyone except Anne/Áine is bi-lingual.. she only has English
S.
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Possibly Flemming? And who is Sarah Jones age 3 ? Is that some version of "visitor!" I am wondering if one of the children filled the form and Charles just popped his name in twice. Its actually quite endearing.
PM
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I think the Sarah Jones aged 3 shows just how much the whole handing over a child and let someone else raise it happened, for what ever reasons....
It's actually facinating to dig further into it now though...
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That census of Charles gives the mother in law as :Ní Phléidhmionn Eibhlín 91 ....
I've found a few mentions of the Irish work 'phléidh' - many in Oireachtas records, but cant figure out what it means yet. Think it might help work out what Ní Phléidhmionn is
S.
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I've tried googling Phliedh too but google won't let me it keeps changing it!!
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works ok for me ... try link (http://www.google.ie/search?q=Phl%C3%A9idh&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=Phl%C3%A9idh&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=i95&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&ei=6QuzTs2VJY20-QaJhvXhAw&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=af078023de25ad0e&biw=1140&bih=566)
S.
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I've just checked the irish dictionary and the closest I can get to it is Pleidhce meaning simpleton, fool and pleidhciocht meaning fooling tomfoolery
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/0gg5/
Think Robert, Republican grandson of a Protestant minister was the culprit!
PM
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It worked when I copied the word and clicked search with google!
Wonder was the name a made up name!!
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http://www.corkarchives.ie/media/U156web.pdf.
Might be a better link. Now think he - Robert was involved with my family, in the printing context -
how odd....Flemming is I thinlk what the other surname is -but I can't prove it, its just a guess.
PM
Married 1st wife neé Fennell who died giving birth to their 3rd child. Had 20
children with his 2nd wife, Catherine O'Callaghan, of Blarney Street. Riobárd’s
grandfather was possibly a Protestant minister. :)
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Its a facinating link...
Its funny how you'll come across bits of info like this and it gives you an insight into what was going on then
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23 Children in all - is he in your family tree? I think it would take an enormous amount of research to cover that generation!
PM
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Am I right in reading that his first wife was Fennell, or is that Riobard?? AND that he had 20 kids after this census!!!
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Not in my family!!! I'm looking for Lonergans!! I'd nearly deny them if they were with that amount of kids!!
Lee Press was the business they started and owned....
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Riobárd was the father of the 23 kids as I read it! And had the two wives.
It is fascinating stuff!
PM
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yeah just read it that way now too, still no record of his mother and father getting married!!
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Stella aged 3 was a visitor - have just worked out that long word was an earlier form of "cuairteor". So maybe she had a home to go to... :)
Pleimeann is the Irish for Flemming today. I reckon that's close enough to find a marriage. Wonder which side the Vicar is on, Ann or Charles?
PM
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The funny thing is that we're all searching for a marriage match and none of us need it!! ;D
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Well, I had to take a couple of phone calls, maybe they married out of the country or something, I can't find them. But someone, some day might come along here and find them from a galaxy far far way and be grateful for our efforts...... :)
Shane is a genuis though, so maybe he has worked it out!
PM
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Maybe they will!!
I just find it facinating that we all got caught up in it so easily, it's whats always happening to me, I get carried away looking for people!!
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Are you looking for descendants? If so it is possible that the person mentioned in this site is related.
http://www.placenames.ie/
annclare
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I've tried googling Phliedh too but google won't let me it keeps changing it!!
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Irish Marriage index:
March 1889 Cork
Charles Edward Laukford and Annie Fleming are amongst the spouses.
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Hello all. I am a descendant of the Lankford (later changed to Langford) family on this census form on this thread.
Glad to see all as interested in the family tree as I am. Must find out who Stella Jones is. I've never heard her mentioned. :)