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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: MonicaL on Tuesday 15 November 11 20:51 GMT (UK)

Title: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 15 November 11 20:51 GMT (UK)
This new post is a continuation of previous post here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,183738.0.html. The older post is now closed for new enquiries. Please put all new enquiries on this new post.

There are a number of people who have knowledge and access to records from this cemetery.

Thank you  :)

Monica
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Leia on Tuesday 15 November 11 21:58 GMT (UK)
Thank you Monica! while the other thread was very interesting to read, it was getting very difficult to find anything without a lot of time spent!

I am wondering, if while Lodger has his book out, if he could tell me if there are any other Amos burials other than Jessie Bertram Amos (d. 1915).

I was so lucky in September when we arrived at the cemetery on, yes, a bank holiday, that there was another researcher with small notebook in hand who actually knew where section E was. We found the spot where Jessie was buried, but sadly, no headstone. Just what might have been the remnants of one.

It would be interesting to find out if there were any other family members buried at the cemetery.

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Tuesday 15 November 11 23:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Leia,
Just the same as the last time you asked! Only Jessie Craig Amos I'm afraid.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Leia on Wednesday 16 November 11 10:54 GMT (UK)
Thank you!! good to know I didn't miss anyone when I was there in September.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: NZDawn on Thursday 17 November 11 09:20 GMT (UK)
Kia ora Lodger

I have found my way to the new section. The first named people are my family and I expect many of the others will be connected. I knew about the Napier marriage, but not about the death of the child. No, there didn't seem to be a David in the immediate family. I think Alex must have moved away, he may also have emigrated, but he didn't come to New Zealand, although an Aunt of Helen Merrilees did come, but to the North Island and I think prior to her niece. The different spellings are numerous. I am inclined to ignore them. Even within my New Zealand family we have made some minor changes as the surname has become a given name.

I am planning my itinerary now for my extended Scotland visit from July 2012 and will definitely visit the cemetery. Having the plot numbers will be so helpful. Have you any suggestions as to the best people to contact to try to locate Trotter Bank when I arrive? I think where you are describing is around where I was looking on Google maps.

I am overwhelmed by the fact that a stranger in another country can take so much time to provide information for others. This is the second such experience I have had.

Thank you so much.

NZDawn
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: moragb on Saturday 19 November 11 15:07 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I wonder if anyone could help me locate the graves of the Duncan family who farmed at Cairneyhead.  Father and Mother - William and Janet and offspring Agnes (1792-1873), Janet (1796-1869), James (1797-1885), Thomas (1803-1872) and Margaret (1806-1882).  also the grave of John Wilson, Janet's grandson who died in Cambusnethan in 1925.
Many thanks,
Moragb
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 19 November 11 16:34 GMT (UK)
Hi morag,

Janet, Thomas, Agnes, Margaret and James are all interred in the private walled burial ground at Cambusnethan, it is situated between the old churchyard and the new cemetery.
They are in a double plot, 158 & 159.
Janet & Thomas are in 158, the other 3 are in 159. All 5 are children of William Duncan and Janet Wilson.

JANET DUNCAN, housekeeper, Cairneyhead, aged 74 years, single.
Interred 10th June 1869.

THOMAS DUNCAN, farmer, Cairneyhead, aged about 70 years, single.
Interred 5th September 1872.

AGNES DUNCAN, housekeeper, Cairneyhead, aged about 70 years, single.
Interred 10th March 1873.

MARGARET DUNCAN, housekeeper, Stane, aged 76 years, single.
Interred 20th November 1882.

JAMES DUNCAN, farmer, Stane, aged 88 years, single.
Interred 11th February 1886.

It may be a red herring but, in the next plot (No.160) is -
EUPHEMIA ROBERTSON, domestic servant, Wishaw Hospital, aged 20 years, single.
Parents - Robert Robertson & Mary Duncan.
Interred 14th March 1874.

Also, I don't have the records for 1925 and you don't give too much information about John Wilson (parents names are always a big help) but could this be the same family?
Plot B495 in the new cemetery.

JESSIE WILSON, 49 Flowerhill, Airdrie, aged 1 year.
Parents - John Wilson and Mary Duncan.
Interred 17th May 1910.

ANNIE F.M. WILSON, Kirkhall, aged 7 weeks.
Parents as above.
Interred 8th January 1915.

In the next plot, B496 is -

MARGARET DUNCAN, aged 74 years, widow.
Parents - John Law & Elizabeth Lyon.
Interred 24th September 1913.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: moragb on Saturday 19 November 11 19:43 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for this.  This is indeed the Duncan family although no mention of their parents - obviously some more digging on my part needed and perhaps I can find a link to the next grave. 
John Wilson's parents were John Wilson and Margaret Smith but he was brought up at Cairneyhead by his grandmother Janet while the parents moved to a farm at Shotts. John, my g grandfather, was born 6/5/1848 at Cambusnethan and his second wife Ellen McKechnie died in Bonkle in 19/3/1934.
Any other information gratefully received but once again thanks for this.
regards,
Moragb
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 19 November 11 21:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Morag,

Couldn't find any other mention of this family in the burial records, sorry. No mention in the MIs or burial records for the old churchyard, perhaps the parents were interred at Shotts?
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: moragb on Sunday 20 November 11 08:49 GMT (UK)
Once again, many thanks for your help.  The search goes on.
Regards,
Moragb
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Elmca on Sunday 01 January 12 22:29 GMT (UK)
Hi, wonder if you can help.  I am looking for the grave of Janet Hall/ William Smellie (d.1875) and Jane Allan - they are buried together.   I just can't remember which graveyard in Motherwell they are in.  I was sent photos of the grave a few years ago but have since lost them. Thank you.  Elaine
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: mariac on Monday 02 January 12 00:01 GMT (UK)
Hi there,
      I wonder if there would be any mention of the Armit family among the graves. In particular Thomas 1903 and Christina 1932 and their children Thomas Mary and Christina who died 1880.
    Thank you for you help.
Kind Regards
mariac
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sage on Saturday 07 January 12 03:52 GMT (UK)
Mariac, I've sent you a PM.  :)
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 07 January 12 15:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Elmca, so sorry for the delay in answering, I was away for New Year.
William & Janet are buried in the old parish burial ground of Dalziel, it was the original churchyard and was still used by old Motherwell families who had plots there, up until the early 1960s.
The headstone has the following information (not necessarily in the order that it appears on the stone).

1868. Janet Hall died 20th March 1867 aged 29 years, wife of William Smillie. William Smillie died 14th October 1875 aged 38 years. His 2nd wife Jane Allen died 24th February 1903 aged 68 years.

This burial ground is situated near to Barons Haugh, at the end of Manse Road, Motherwell. The Victorians called in the Manse Burial Ground and it has recently been mistakenly called St Patrick's Burial Ground.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Elmca on Saturday 07 January 12 15:49 GMT (UK)
Thank you Lodger, I really appreciate that information.  I had the name 'St Patrick's' in my head and that will be why!  Do you know if it's easy enough to  get into this graveyard?  Thanks again, Elaine
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 07 January 12 16:47 GMT (UK)
Elaine, It's not easy at all and I wouldn't even try to go there until the spring or summer. Contact me later on in the year.

lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Elmca on Saturday 07 January 12 17:01 GMT (UK)
Ok will do!! I was thinking about summer time anyway as I live in Northumberland.  Thanks again! :)
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: wedgelee65 on Monday 26 March 12 05:17 BST (UK)
I see there are many knowledgeable researchers of Cambusnethan families so I am hoping someone can help me with a few families from this area:

Alexander Waddell born in Edinburgh but died 1916 Cambusnethan  (father Archibald Douglas Waddell - mother Elizabeth Rymer) unable to find death details for either of his parents.

Alexander was married to Margaret Russell Bonner (Bonar) who was born 1836 in Shotts (father James Bonar died Calderhead 1867 - mother Frances Topping died Calderhead 1885). Margaret doesn't appear on the 1881 census with the rest of the family so no idea of her death details.

Rachel Kent (father Hugh Kent and mother Christina Marshall)  married William McConnell on 30 May 1847 at Shotts, Lanarkshire but their children were born in Cambusnethan. Rachel died before 1901 census but can find no details.

Also trying to find out about the death of Rachel Kent's and William McConnell's son Robert born 03 Mar 1861 in Cambusnethan. He married Agnes Topping Waddell (daughter of Alexander Waddell and Margaret Russell Bonar/Bonner).
They had four children - but at some stage separated. Agnes went to Australia in the early 1920s to join her older daughter (Margaret Bonner McConnell)  with 2 of her  children (Rachel Kent McConnell and Alexander Waddell McConnell). Her other son (William) followed them in the 1930s. Complete mystery as to what happened to Robert - only info is that Agnes was listed as a widow on her death certificate in 1955. Any information or advice on how to discover what happened to Robert McConnell would be gratefully accepted as the family has been trying to find this out for years???

Thank you,
Jen

Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Monday 26 March 12 09:44 BST (UK)
Hello Jen,

Welcome to Rootschat. I have made a thorough search of the Cambusnethan burial records that I have (they end at 1916, more or less). I didn't find very much I'm afraid but every little helps. The only solid evidence is this entry -

AGNES McCONNELL, Newmains, aged 3 years.
Parents - William McConnell & Rachel Kent.
Interred in common ground on 23rd January 1862.

There is an infant child of William McConnell & Agnes Loudon, died 1895. Could this William be the son of William & Rachel?
Also infant children of Rachel Kent Kinnear who was married to John McFarlane, dates around 1908 in Shotts.
There is a huge family plot (Morrison family) in the old churchyard with 4 infant McConnells interred between 1893 - 1902 and a Robert Tippin (Topping?) aged 31 years in 1895. Ring any bells?

There is a headstone in Kirk o' Shotts churchyard with the following inscription -

Erected by George Topping in memory of his father George who died 15th April 1871 aged 52 years.  Fanny Topping died 16th February 1859 aged (5?) years.  Daniel Topping died 8th June 1877 aged 19 years.  Ros Ann Bogle his daughter died 10th February 18(.)2 aged 13 months.  Rossanne Bogle widow of George Topping died 28th October 1899 aged 77 years.  Margaret Russell Topping died (.) June 1909 aged 1 year.  George Topping died 21st July 1934 aged 82 years.  (His wife (…..) Chalmers died 17th March 1902 aged 44 years.

Fanny is a diminutive of Francis, so perhaps there is a connection to your Toppings.

That's all I could find but we do have a Waddell expert on this List, she will help you I'm sure.

Regards,

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: wedgelee65 on Monday 26 March 12 11:59 BST (UK)
Thanks Lodger,

That one small piece of solid evidence has already solved one of my mysteries! I had been searching for a marriage for Agnes McConnell (born 01 Sept 1858) for ages as I hadn't found a death record and so already that's one I can cross off my list...
William and Rachel had another Robert born 16 Sept 1856 but he must have died too as a baby/young child as the second Robert was born on 03 Mar 1861.

The other children from the marriage were:
Hugh McConnell b 1849 (married to Marion ?)

William McConnell b 1851 (married twice second time to Marion Stobo)

Christina McConnell b 1853 (married Thomas Saddler)

Isabella McConnell b 1855 (married ? Maley)

Robert McConnell b 1856 - died before 1861

Agnes McConnell b 1858 - died 1862 (THANKS!)

Robert McConnell b 1861 (married Agnes Topping Waddell)

Mary McConnell b 1863 ????

John McConnell b 1865 ????

James McConnell b 1867 (married Elenor Campbell?)

David McConnell b 1869 ????

 The McConnells were a mining family and they did move around quite a bit so it's difficult to keep track of individual family members. I haven't been able to definitely trace any of the family members deaths to mining accidents either.
As for all the Topping information you have kindly provided, I will have another look at my information - I have some deaths of Toppings at Shotts because of the mortcloth records so I'm sure to find some links there.
Thank you so much for your prompt reply. I live in Australia and as I haven't yet managed to win the Lotto unfortunately I can't see myself getting over to Scotland any time soon...

Warm Regards,
Jen
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Monday 26 March 12 19:38 BST (UK)
Hi Jen,

I've checked through the records again and nothing comes up for McConnell paired with Stobo, Saddler, Maley or Campbell. What was the name of William's first wife?
If you haven't already checked, the 1855 birth certificate for Isabella will give lots of extra information, including parents age and place of birth, the date and place of marriage and how many children they had already, living or dead. Well worth checking.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sancti on Monday 26 March 12 22:36 BST (UK)
1881 census has the McConnell family living in Whitburn


William McConnell 42 born Eastwood, Renfrewshire
Rachel McConnell 41 born Bothwell
Robert McConnell 24
Mary McConnell 18
John McConnell 16
James McConnell 14
David McConnell 12
William McConnell 3 grandson

Address Green Tree Cottage Whitburn
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: wedgelee65 on Tuesday 27 March 12 06:49 BST (UK)
Thanks once again Lodger and Sancti for showing such an interest in my research. I don't know if you appreciate how exciting it is to check emails when you see a reply in the inbox! It's difficult doing family research on a budget and this sort of information really helps...

Sancti - The 1881 McConnell family you have listed are indeed my McConnells.
It took a while to figure out who the grandson belonged to but eventually I discovered that he was the son of William and Rachel's son William McConnell whose wife had died - I have been unable to find out who his first wife was but he later married Marion Stobo and had more children. The grandson stayed with his grandparents right up until their deaths judging by the census information and was even noted as their own son on the later ones.

Lodger - As for all the Topping family members you found in the Kirk o'Shotts churchyard - they are definitely related to my Toppings as the first George Topping who died 15 Apr 1871 appears to be  a relative of Frances Topping (mother of Margaret Russell Bonar). Can't match up the others yet but still looking!
Have gotten further with the Marshalls (who appear to be from Stirling) but no luck with Hugh Kent/ Archibald Douglas Waddell/ Elizabeth Rymer so far.

Thanks again,
Jen

Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: drphil on Friday 06 April 12 05:28 BST (UK)
What a monumental thread (get it?!).  My forefather John Davidson b 1820 in Stevenston, Ayrshire died on 18 Mar 1884 in Cambusnethan of a lung abscess/ pneumonia, I wonder if you have a record of his burial?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Friday 06 April 12 10:41 BST (UK)
This looks like him in Cambusnethan municipal cemetery -

JOHN DAVIDSON, joiner, Morningside, aged 66 years, married.
Parents - Hugh Davidson and Isabella Wilkieson.
Interred in plot C380 on 20th March 1884.

The plot was owned by Hugh Davidson of Morningside. John is, as far as I can tell, the only occupant.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: drphil on Friday 06 April 12 20:57 BST (UK)
Thanks so much, that's him all right.  At the risk of pushing my luck is there anyone out there who lives just next door to the cemetery who would be willing to take a digi photo of the grave/ headstone for me?

Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Strachan48 on Sunday 29 April 12 03:13 BST (UK)
Hello,
I am new to Roots but was pleased to find that there is mention of someone I am looking for in this chain.
Joseph Strachan grew up in Wishaw and ultimately emigrated to Canada. (my husbands great grandfather)  His mother was Charlotte (Diffin ) Strachan  d. 1908 and her parents John and Margaret long time residents. I see they are all buried in Cambusnethan cemetery from your prior notes, but I am trying to find details about her husband William Strachan d between 1895 and 1908. - I think he was buried with Charlotte in plots owned by Joseph his son.
Any info on William or his parents James Strachan and Helen Morrow ?
On his marriage certificate to Charlotte William shows as a widower.
any help would be much appreciated   srs
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: JulesT on Tuesday 15 May 12 12:39 BST (UK)
Thanks so much, that's him all right.  At the risk of pushing my luck is there anyone out there who lives just next door to the cemetery who would be willing to take a digi photo of the grave/ headstone for me?



Drphil, I spent my formative years living in Cambusnethan and now live in a nearby town.  I have noted down your details and I will try in the next few weeks to visit the cemetery with a view to getting some photos.  I will say, though, that many of the headstones in the older part of the graveyard have become unstable and the local council has erected fencing to stop the public entering this area.  I last visited around 3 years ago and was disappointed that I couldn't show my daughter many of the graves I had studied as a child.  I'll let you know how I fare.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: JulesT on Tuesday 15 May 12 17:39 BST (UK)
Drphil,

I emailed North Lanarkshire Council today enquiring about the grave.  It must be in the old part which is fenced off as they have requested someone at the cemetery to take a photo for me and it will be sent in due course.  I'll let you know asap.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: snooki on Sunday 20 May 12 17:16 BST (UK)
Hi folks

I'm looking for any info. MIs, burial details, etc regarding this family.
 
James Gray (parents - John Gray and Margaret Haddow) married Helen Swan 1810 carmichael.

known children
Mary b. 1810 ponfeigh
Robert b. 1811 ponfeigh
John b. 1813 carluke
James b. 1815 carluke
d. Before  nov.1819
Christian Swan b. 1816
cambusnethan
James Swan b. 1819 chapel
William b. 1822 chapel
Thomas b. 1823 chapel
Elisabeth b. 1826 chapel
Agnes b. 1830 chapel
Lilias Swan b. 1832 chapel

thanks
snooki
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: snooki on Tuesday 22 May 12 21:40 BST (UK)
RE: the above post #29

Helen (swan) Gray d.1866 abt. 75yrs

James Gray possibly d. 1876
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Wednesday 23 May 12 23:10 BST (UK)
There are 2 headstones in the old churchyard at Cambusnethan, next to each other, so probably a large family plot.
One has the inscription "Erected by James Gray, tenant in Thai.......... (unreadable) and Helen Swan in memory of their children. Their son James died 2nd October 1816. ............................" (rest unreadable).

The other has the inscription "Erected by William Gray and Elizabeth Gibb in memory of their daughter Agnes who died 11th November 1850 aged 5 months".

The plot Book for the churchyard doesn't have any entries for the Gray/Swan plot, the Gray/Gibb plot entries are -

In the South lair - (all dates are of internment)
CHRISTINA GRAY, (no age stated) 15th September 1880.
GEORGE GRAY, (no age stated) 21st April 1922.
In the Centre lair -
JOHN GRAY, aged 65 years, 14th February 1927.
In the North lair -
ALEXANDER GRAY, aged 70 years, 8th May 1935.

Extracts from the gravediggers Day Book -

CHRISTINA WATSON, housewife, Wishaw, aged 49 years, married.
Parents - James Gray & Helen Swan.
Interred in the old churchyard on 3rd October 1865.

HELEN GRAY, housewife, Bonkle, aged 75 years, married.
Parents - Robert Swan & Mary Scotland.
Interred in the old churchyard on 30th May 1866.

ROBERT GRAY, mason, Glasgow, aged 59 years, unmarried.
Parents - James Gray & Helen Swan.
Interred in the old churchyard on 25th June 1870.

AGNES GRAY, housekeeper, Glasgow, aged 44 years, unmarried.
Parents - James Gray & Helen Swan.
Interred in the old churchyard on 16th October 1873.

JOHN GRAY, mason, Glasgow, aged 61 years, married.
Parents - James Gray & Helen Swan.
Interred in the old churchyard on 8th December 1874.

JAMES GRAY, farmer, Wishaw, aged 88 years, widower.
Parents - John Gray & Margaret Haddow.
Interred in the old churchyard on 20th April 1876.

Follow 4 internments are in plot 368 of the old private burial ground, between the old churchyard and the municipal cemetery.

CHRISTINA GRAY, housewife, Wishaw, aged 24 years, married.
Parents - John Stevenson & Christina McNeil.
28th March 1872.

WILLIAM GRAY, Wishaw, aged 5 years.
Parents - William Gray & Christina Stevenson.
7th May 1873.

CHRISTINA GRAY, Cambusnethan, aged 11 years.
Parents - William Gray & Christina Stevenson.
18th January 1881.

ROBERT SWAN GRAY, baker, Wishaw, aged 61 years, married.
Parents - William Gray & Elizabeth Gibb.
26th February 1909.

There may be a few more children of Wm Gray & Eliz Gibb, I'll go back and check.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Wednesday 23 May 12 23:24 BST (UK)
The only other one I could find was -

AGNES GRAY, servant, Wishaw, aged 15 years, unmarried.
Parents - William Gray & Elizabeth Gibb.
Interred in the old churchyard on 23rd May 1868.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: snooki on Thursday 24 May 12 14:11 BST (UK)
Thanks lodger for above info. :)

snooki
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: snooki on Thursday 24 May 12 14:21 BST (UK)
Thanks lodger for info. :)

snooki
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: kb0fhp on Monday 06 August 12 02:10 BST (UK)
The search on the Merrilees family was wonderful and it filled in a lot of the gaps that I had on the parents of Elizabeth Cameron Merrilees.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: NZDawn on Monday 06 August 12 22:20 BST (UK)
Kia ora

I am now in Scotland following up my Merrilees ancestors and intending to visit the Cambusnethan cemetery in less than 2 weeks time. How do you fit into the Merrilees picture?

NZDawn
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: kb0fhp on Monday 06 August 12 22:57 BST (UK)
NZDawn:

I would really appreciate it if you could post the grave photos with inscriptions.  Specifically Robert Merrilees (1812) and Ann Scott Merrilees.  His parents Robert Merrilees and Agnes Rogers - that would be wonderful!

Elizabeth Cameron Merrilees (b 1850 based on marriage certificate) married Thomas McKenzie on 16 Feb 1872 in Aberlemno, Angus, Scotland.  The marriage certificate indicates parents were Robert Merrilees and Ann Milnor/Miller Scott.  From the grave records posted, you were able to unlock the major stumbling block I was having (and many of the relatives before me) finding the parents of Elizabeth Cameron Merrilees.  My grandfather and great grandfather couldn't tell us much about her family as her parents died young. 

This broke down a major stumbling block.

This was truly a huge help.

Scott
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: NZDawn on Tuesday 07 August 12 19:29 BST (UK)
I am very pleased that incidentally, I was able to do help. I will see what photographs I can get.

NZDawn
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: SOMISSMARPLE on Sunday 19 August 12 22:26 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for this.  This is indeed the Duncan family although no mention of their parents - obviously some more digging on my part needed and perhaps I can find a link to the next grave. 
John Wilson's parents were John Wilson and Margaret Smith but he was brought up at Cairneyhead by his grandmother Janet while the parents moved to a farm at Shotts. John, my g grandfather, was born 6/5/1848 at Cambusnethan and his second wife Ellen McKechnie died in Bonkle in 19/3/1934.
Any other information gratefully received but once again thanks for this.
regards,
Moragb
John Wilson and Ellen McKechnie are also my GGrandparents.  John died 4/4/1925 at Inglisland Cryndledyke, he is not buried with Ellen in Cambusnethan Cemetery Lair No: 921A,  he may be buried in Shotts where his father and mother had Fortissat House and farm or he may be buried with his first wife Mary Greenhorn in Whitburn.  I hope Morag sees this message, would love to know her connection.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: kb0fhp on Friday 21 September 12 01:14 BST (UK)
Lodger:

I wanted to thank you for all the generous time you spent finding people.  The Merrilees find was exceptional!

Again thank you for your help.

Scott
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: jinkybhoygb on Sunday 23 September 12 02:31 BST (UK)
Hi i'm looking for some information about my family I don't know much about the family history although the family name was cooney and from cambusnethan Wishaw could you find any information i would be most thankful
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: moragb on Friday 28 September 12 13:36 BST (UK)

Quote
John Wilson and Ellen McKechnie are also my GGrandparents.  John died 4/4/1925 at Inglisland Cryndledyke, he is not buried with Ellen in Cambusnethan Cemetery Lair No: 921A,  he may be buried in Shotts where his father and mother had Fortissat House and farm or he may be buried with his first wife Mary Greenhorn in Whitburn.  I hope Morag sees this message, would love to know her connection.
Quote

I am probably posting this in the wrong place but would love to get in touch.  I am the granddaughter of James Wilson, John's younger son.  Do get in touch soon.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: SOMISSMARPLE on Friday 28 September 12 23:29 BST (UK)

Quote
John Wilson and Ellen McKechnie are also my GGrandparents.  John died 4/4/1925 at Inglisland Cryndledyke, he is not buried with Ellen in Cambusnethan Cemetery Lair No: 921A,  he may be buried in Shotts where his father and mother had Fortissat House and farm or he may be buried with his first wife Mary Greenhorn in Whitburn.  I hope Morag sees this message, would love to know her connection.
Quote

I am probably posting this in the wrong place but would love to get in touch.  I am the granddaughter of James Wilson, John's younger son.  Do get in touch soon.
Hi Morag I am so happy you seen the message. Is James the son of John and Mary Greenhorn, I do not think that there was any children to his marriage to Ellen McKechnie in 1899. I know there were other siblings to James. I am away for 1 week from tomorrow but I will look forward to hearing from you when I get back.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: moragb on Saturday 29 September 12 09:17 BST (UK)
Hi Morag I am so happy you seen the message. Is James the son of John and Mary Greenhorn, I do not think that there was any children to his marriage to Ellen McKechnie in 1899. I know there were other siblings to James. I am away for 1 week from tomorrow but I will look forward to hearing from you when I get back.


Yes, James is the son of John and Mary.  Do you come from Ellen's side?  Once you come back from holiday, we can get this sorted out!!  Great to hear from you
Morag
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: jinkybhoygb on Saturday 29 September 12 22:28 BST (UK)
Hi i'm looking for some information about my family I don't know much about the family history although the family name was cooney and from cambusnethan Wishaw could you find any information i would be most thankful
[/q]

When you have the time could someone help me please

thanks in advance

liam
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: JulesT on Saturday 29 September 12 22:39 BST (UK)
Hi i'm looking for some information about my family I don't know much about the family history although the family name was cooney and from cambusnethan Wishaw could you find any information i would be most thankful
[/q]

When you have the time could someone help me please

thanks in advance

liam

If you provide a bit more info, christian names, approximate timeframe, it would be a starting point for anyone willing to help you - just a surname is a bit vague.

Jules
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: jinkybhoygb on Saturday 29 September 12 23:42 BST (UK)
the family I know of (sorry no dates as of yet are )

Mother: Ellen Cooney nee rope
Father: Peter Cooney

Sons :
Peter cooney  (my Grandfather)
Andrew cooney 

Daughters:
margaret cooney
Esther
Elizabeth
Bridget
Cathrine Ann
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sancti on Sunday 30 September 12 00:28 BST (UK)
Marriage record is available on Scotlandspeople

1928 COONEY PETER and ROPE ELLEN at CAMBUSNETHAN /LANARK

Death records would need to be ordered to check address at death

1979 COONEY ELLEN other name ROPE aged 70 at MOTHERWELL AND WISHAW /NORTH LANARKSHIRE

1975 COONEY PETER other name MCLAUGHLIN aged 68 at MOTHERWELL AND WISHAW /NORTH LANARKSHIRE
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 30 September 12 13:00 BST (UK)
A good start Sancti, now I can add what little there is in the Cambusnethan burial records.

Hi Jinkybhoygb,

No sign of any Cooneys between 1861 - 1915 (there are a few gaps in the records) so it's safe to say that this family were late-comers to the parish. Cooney is an Irish surname, so your research may take you very quickly to Ireland, probably Donegal or another of the Ulster counties.

rope should be a much easier name to trace but again, I think it may take you to Ireland fairly quickly. There are a few Ropes buried in Cambusnethan cemetery and I would put money on them all being related, one way or another.
Here's a list of what I found - All dates are of burial, not of death.

MARGARET ROPE, Newmains, aged 16 months.
Parents - Andrew Rope & Margaret McGowan.
29th November 1871 in public ground. (In other words, Common ground).

BARBARA ROPE, Newmains, aged 2 years.
Parents - Andrew Rope & Margaret McGowan.
9th December 1871 in public ground. (next grave to Margaret above).

ANNIE ROPE, Newmains, aged 17 months.
Parents - Andrew Rope & Margaret McGowan.
18th August 1873 in public ground.

MARGARET ROPE, Omoa Poorhouse, aged 63 years, widow.
Parents - James McGowan & Barbara Conway.
9th July 1907 in public ground.

PATRICK MULLERVY, Newmains, aged 2 minutes.
Parents - Owen Mullervy & Mary Rope.
8th December 1906 in public ground.

JAMES MULLERVY, Newmains, aged 3 months.
Parents - Owen Mullervy & Mary Rope.
10th February 1908 in public ground.

AGNES ROPE, Newmains, aged 4 years & 4 months.
Parents - Thomas Rope & Margaret Park.
16th April 1907 in plot E611.
(Also in that plot in Margaret Biggar, 17 year old daughter of Charles Biggar & Margaret Park, buried on 6th November 1906).

PATRICK ROPE, Newmains, aged 13 months.
Parents - Andrew Rope & Bridget Bain.
23rd March 1908 in public ground.

CATHERINE ROPE, Newmains, aged 10 months.
Parents - Andrew Rope & Bridget Bain.
16th December 1912 in public ground.

HENRY ROPE, labourer, Wishaw, aged 45 years, unmarried.
Parents - Andrew Rope & Margaret Irvine.
21st February 1913 in public ground.
(I wonder if Margaret Irvine is really Margaret McGowan?... Lodger).

BRIDGET ROPE, housewife, Newmains, aged 38 years, married.
Parents - John Bain & Margaret Cooper.
16th April 1913.

That's all there in in the cemetery records, it should give you some clues to the Rope side of your family.

According to the IGI (International Genealogical Index) at www.familysearch.org

Andrew Rope and Margaret McGowan were married in Cambusnethan parish on 14th october 1867.
The following children are listed but there may well have been more -
All dates are of birth

ANDREW - 20th January 1868.
BARBARA - 14th March 1869.
MARGARET - 1st September 1870.
ANNIE - 27th - February 1872.
CATHERINE - 22nd July 1873.
PATRICK - 7th December 1874.
All of the above were born in Cambusnethan parish.

The IGI also has a birth at Cambusnethan for
BRIDGET ROPE, Parents John Rope & Ann Docherty, born 16th August 1881.

Good luck with your research,

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: moragb on Sunday 07 October 12 17:04 BST (UK)
Hi morag,

Janet, Thomas, Agnes, Margaret and James are all interred in the private walled burial ground at Cambusnethan, it is situated between the old churchyard and the new cemetery.
They are in a double plot, 158 & 159.
Janet & Thomas are in 158, the other 3 are in 159. All 5 are children of William Duncan and Janet Wilson.

[

Hi Lodger,
Because of a recent post, I have been having another look at the Duncan/Wilson part of my ancestry.  When I checked out the death certificates of the siblings their mother's name is given as Janet Graham (spelt Graeme in Janet's baptismal record) not Wilson.  Just trying to verify this before I try to go back in time any further.
Thanks again for your sterling work - because of you I might well have found the only relative I know of on my grandfather's side!!

Moragb
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 07 October 12 18:19 BST (UK)
Hi Morag,

Yes, you're right, the mother's maiden surname is Graham - not Wilson. My mistake! I am so sorry to have mislead you.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: moragb on Sunday 07 October 12 18:27 BST (UK)
No problem.  Just dotting Is and crossing ts.
Kind regards,
morag
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: SOMISSMARPLE on Monday 08 October 12 15:23 BST (UK)
Hi Morag, Yes Ellen McKechnie was my grandfathers Mother and John Wilson was step father to him, his brother Adam and sister Nellie in 1899. In 1901 they stayed in Ratho Midlothian.  My Grandfather is Isaac Caldwell as was his Father whom I have never ever been able to find after 1892, Ellen McKechnie was a Widow in 1899 when she married John Wilson,  she was from Law Village Carluke and John Wilson was from Airdrie at the time.  I have the Will of John Wilson and Margaret Smith of Fortissat Shotts, do you have this? 
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: moragb on Monday 08 October 12 15:41 BST (UK)
Hi, it is lovely to hear from you.  As you can see, I was investigating the Duncans through this forum: Janet Duncan was John senior's mother and although John junior was born in wedlock, she also brought him up while Mum and Dad moved away from Cambusnethan!!
I have both John senior's will - in which his oldest son got hardly anything and also James Duncan's one (brother of Janet) where his estate was divided equally between both Johns.
Do you know anything about the Wilson family: I have never been able to find out about my grandfather's siblings apart from his younger sister, Mary who died when I was very little. 
We must keep in touch and perhaps swap the info we have!!
Talk soon
morag
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: SOMISSMARPLE on Monday 08 October 12 17:36 BST (UK)
Hi, it is lovely to hear from you.  As you can see, I was investigating the Duncans through this forum: Janet Duncan was John senior's mother and although John junior was born in wedlock, she also brought him up while Mum and Dad moved away from Cambusnethan!!
I have both John senior's will - in which his oldest son got hardly anything and also James Duncan's one (brother of Janet) where his estate was divided equally between both Johns.
Do you know anything about the Wilson family: I have never been able to find out about my grandfather's siblings apart from his younger sister, Mary who died when I was very little. 
We must keep in touch and perhaps swap the info we have!!
Talk soon
morag


Hi Morag, Yes I seen you were looking in to the Duncans where you mentioned John Wilson and Ellen Mckechnie. Was there not a Catherine born in Whitburn and named after Mary Greenhorn's Mother - Catherine Anderson, a Margaret and John, and James named after Mary's Dad James Greenhorn.  On the Caldwell side I know that my Grandfathers brother Adam had a son called John Wilson Caldwell. That would be lovely to keep in touch, are you north of the border yourself Morag?

Talk soon
Anne
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: moragb on Monday 08 October 12 17:58 BST (UK)
Hi anne,
i have sent you a PM
Talk soon
Morag
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sancti on Saturday 12 January 13 13:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Lodger

Do you have any records of a William Buchanan, father John mother Agnes?
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 12 January 13 17:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Sancti, I'm on holiday until Monday, will get back to you when I can search my records. In the meantime do you have some sort of timescale?
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sancti on Saturday 12 January 13 17:23 GMT (UK)
Thanks Lodger

Around 1841-1850
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Tuesday 15 January 13 09:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Sancti, couldn't find anything for William Buchanan, sorry.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: pia on Tuesday 05 February 13 22:30 GMT (UK)
Hi
I am trying to find the burial place of Hugh Winters and his wife Ellen,  I don't know when Hugh died but Ellen died  14 July 1904 in English Street, Craigneuk

Regards Pia
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sancti on Tuesday 05 February 13 22:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Sancti, couldn't find anything for William Buchanan, sorry.

Thanks Lodger

Do you have any McMillan surnames around 1850s
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 07 February 13 16:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Pia,

I don't have the burial records for 1904 and you'd have to check with North Lanarkshire Council but I don't think they have them either. There seems to be a gap from about 1901 until 1906.
The only connection I could find was William Weir and his wife Helen Winters (residing in Wishaw) had a baby daughter who was buried on 26th May 1913, in plot E1676. The child was named Jeanie D. Weir and she was aged 7 weeks.
Perhaps this Helen is the daughter of Hugh & Ellen?

Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 07 February 13 16:14 GMT (UK)
Sancti, you're too vague!
Maiden surnames if you know them. The burial records for Cambusnethan cemetery only begin about 1860 - 61. The MIs exist as you know but the only McMillan is one for William (died 1891 aged 59) and his wife Elizabeth Smith who died 1914 aged 78. Several children died in infancy between 1860 & 1873. Grown-up children later on.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sancti on Thursday 07 February 13 16:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks Lodger I have parents info as William McMillan and Euphemia Yetts (sp) married 1798 Cambusnethan I don't know when William died but it was prior to 1855
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 07 February 13 16:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Sancti, nothing at all for this pair I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: pia on Thursday 07 February 13 22:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Pia,

I don't have the burial records for 1904 and you'd have to check with North Lanarkshire Council but I don't think they have them either. There seems to be a gap from about 1901 until 1906.
The only connection I could find was William Weir and his wife Helen Winters (residing in Wishaw) had a baby daughter who was buried on 26th May 1913, in plot E1676. The child was named Jeanie D. Weir and she was aged 7 weeks.
Perhaps this Helen is the daughter of Hugh & Ellen?

Thank you Lodger you have just solved one of my brick walls, Helen is the daughter of Hugh & Ellen
I only had her birth date and no other details I knew that the Weir name was somehow connected to my family but didn't know where it fitted in, now thanks to you I have found my missing link.

Thank You, Pia :)
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sancti on Saturday 09 February 13 23:09 GMT (UK)
Lodger, do you have any records for the children of William Black and Agnes Cockburn?
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 10 February 13 00:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Sancti, nothing for this pair I'm afraid. Cockburn, although Black assures us that it's a good Scottish surname, is a very rare name in the Cambusnethan records.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: tazpants on Saturday 13 April 13 23:39 BST (UK)
Hi Lodger,
 
 A couple of years ago you helped me in locating burials for some Andersons in Cambusnethan. At the time you said "Tazpants,
Do you have any info on the Sneddons or turners?
does Gardner Turner ring any bells?

Lodger

I have started doing that side of the family and find i do have a Gardner Turner. Do you have anymore info? Seems to be born around 1839. His parents are Marion Frood and James Turner.
Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 14 April 13 12:34 BST (UK)
Hi Tazpants,

There is a family plot in the old churchyard, the owner, in Victorian times, is listed as Gardner Turner. The plot book only records those buried after about 1880 (and even then I'm not convinced it was always kept up to date). The gravediggers Day Books pad-out what's missing pre-1880 but no records exist at all prior to 1861, apart from the headstone inscriptions and there is one for this plot, I'll begin with that.
"Gardner Turner died 1869 aged 79 years. His wife Catron Paton died May 1833 aged 45 years. Their daughter Mary died 1892 aged 64 years. Sarah Hamilton Turner died 1864 aged 3 years. Robert Turner died 1866 aged 1 year. John Turner died 1869 aged 19 years. Christina Turner died 1869 aged 1 year".
From the plot book - (all dates are of burial)
In the Centre lair -
MARGARET FROOD, aged 88 years, 29th July 1887.
MARION TURNER, aged 84 years, 20th August 1899.
SAMUEL F. TURNER, aged 68 years, 8th June 1920..
In the North lair - MARY TURNER, aged 64 years, 5th August 1892.

Entries from the gravediggers Day Books -

CATHERINE TURNER OR GOLD, straw hat maker, Cambusnethan, aged 45 years, widow.
Parents - Gardiner Turner & Catherine Paton.
Old churchyard on 1st February 1862.

SARAH HAMILTON TURNER, Stane, aged 3 years.
Parents - William Turner & Christina Allan.
Old churchyard on 7th September 1864.

JAMES TURNER, mason, Cocket Hat, aged 52 years, married.
Parents - Gardner Turner & Catherine Paton.
Old churchyard on 18th September 1865.

ROBERT TURNER, Old Stane, aged 21 months.
Parents - William Turner & Christina Allan.
Old churchyard on 21st November 1866.

JANET INGLIS, housewife, Crindledyke, aged 40 years, married.
Parents - Gardner Turner & Catherine Paton.
Old churchyard on 10th April 1869.

GARDNER TURNER, mason, Stane, aged 80 years, widower.
Parents unknown.
Old churchyard on 26th June 1869.

JOHN TURNER, mason, Stane, aged 19 years, unmarried.
Parents - William Turner & Christina Allan.
Old churchyard on 10th November 1869.

CHRISTINA TURNER, Stane, aged 10 months.
Parents - William Turner & Christina Allan.
Old churchyard on 18th November 1869.

WILLIAM TURNER, Wishaw, (unsure about the age - either 26 years or 2 years & 6 months).
Parents - James Turner & Marion Frood.
Old churchyard on 9th January 1871.

GARDNER PATON, mason, Wishaw, aged 36 years, unmarried.
Parents - James Turner & Marion Frood.
Old churchyard on 7th December 1875.

Another plot in the old churchyard that I think must be related to the Turner family - the owners in Victorian times were David Christie & Mary Turner of Shotts.

In the South lair -
DAVID CHRISTIE, aged 2 years & 6 months, 9th October 1880.
In the Centre lair -
JOHN TURNER, aged 55 years, 27th January 1902.

From the Day Books -

GARDNER CHRISTIE, Cambusnethan, aged 1 year.
Parents - Gardner Christie & Jane Pollock.
Old churchyard on 19th October 1872.

DAVID CHRISTIE, Chapelhall, aged 5 years.
Parents - Gardner Christie & Jane Pollock.
Old churchyard on 12th November 1872.

CATHERINE CHRISTIE, Chapelhall, aged 10 months.
Parents - Gardner Christie & Jane Pollock.
Old churchyard on 10th April 1877.

DAVID CHRISTIE, Cambusnethan, aged 2 years & 6 months.
Parents - Gardner Christie & Jane Pollock.
Old churchyard on 9th October 1880.

ROBERT CHRISTIE, Blantyre, aged 10 months.
Parents - Gardner Christie & Jane Pollock.
Old churchyard on 5th July 1881.

Hope that fills in some gaps for you! The Cocket Hat is an area between Cambusnethan village and Wishaw, at the foot of the Kirk Brae - corner of Coltness Road and Kirk Road. Stane is part of modern-day Shotts.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 14 April 13 14:18 BST (UK)
Sorry Taz,

This entry -
GARDNER PATON, mason, Wishaw, aged 36 years, unmarried.
Parents - James Turner & Marion Frood.
Old churchyard on 7th December 1875

Should be GARDNER TURNER.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: tazpants on Sunday 14 April 13 20:14 BST (UK)
Wow and just wow. You are superb Lodger. I only started looking at this part of my tree last night and you have surpassed me. The Turners are my mothers maternal line so you have given me a great head start in searching.
Do you have any photos of the headstones, or in fact are there any ?
I will definately get myself over there soon to investigate the cemetery but can i just say many many thanks for this info.
I tip my hat to you. :)
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 14 April 13 23:20 BST (UK)
Hi Taz, much of the old churchyard has been cordoned off due to unsafe stones and the church ruins being a bit dangerous! however, the Turner /Paton stone, if it has survived, will be accessable. As a matter of fact, it is right next to the Dalziel/McFarlane (fallen) obelisk that I photographed last week. If I have the time and the weather is a bit better than it was today, I'll have a look for it.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Carawa on Thursday 18 April 13 20:10 BST (UK)
Hi

I would be very grateful if someone was able to check whether my Brown family who were living in Cambusnethan in 1851 are buried in the local cemetery.

They are

Andrew Brown miner born abt 1799 died before 1851
Janet Brown nee Ross born abt 1803 died after 1851

Children
Margaret Brown b. abt. 1830, d. 1855 age 25.
Christian/Christina Brown b. West Calder abt. 1832 (alive 1851)
Ann Brown b. West Calder abt. 1838 (alive 1851)
Philip Brown b. Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire abt. 1840 d. 1855 age 15
Alexander Brown b. West Calder abt 1847 died 1905


Thank you

Carawa
New Zealand :)
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 18 April 13 20:55 BST (UK)
Hi Carawa,

No luck with this family I'm afraid, sorry. The 1905 records are missing as far as I know. They stop at 1901 and resume 1906. No written records before 1861 either. Nothing in the old churchyard monumental inscriptions. It may well be that there was a family plot in West Calder and that they are buried there.
The only thing I could find was 2 adult children of John Brown and Margaret Ross. Could it be that 2 brothers married 2 sisters? It wasn't unheard of.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Carawa on Friday 19 April 13 05:49 BST (UK)
Hello Lodger

Thanks very much for having a look for me. I think they are just determined  not to be found.

Carawa
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: OldGrannyG on Tuesday 21 May 13 07:52 BST (UK)
I went to the Cambusnethan Cemetery a few years ago in search of my ancestor's stones but I couldn't find them:

John Lindsay d. about 1826 and Jean Robertson.

I know Lodger may have some information on these--perhaps in the old ruins and fenced off area?  I would also like Cayley to contact me as we share some Lindsay ancestors.

Thx, Granny G
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Tuesday 21 May 13 08:32 BST (UK)
Hi Granny G,

I am on holiday until the 29th, I'll contact you with any information I have when I return.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 30 May 13 11:38 BST (UK)
Hi Granny G,

I think you are probably correct in the assumption that the stone(s) you are looking for are now behind the high fence but I'll try and have a look to make sure.
There was a very worn marker stone with the inscription "1826 John Lindsay and his wife (. . . . . ) Robertson". probably the one you are looking for but as far back as 1982 the wife's Christian name was illegible. I don't have a photograph of this stone.
The next stone to this one is also a "Lindsay" stone. Probably on the same plot but I will try and check this out as well. The inscription on that stone is -"Christina Cunningham died 30th November 1838 aged 63 years. Her husband John Lindsay died July 1842 aged 72 years. Their daughter Marion died 13th February 1877 aged 57 years. Their daughter Margaret died 25th December 1888 aged 83 years. Their son William died 29th January 1891 aged 80 years".
I don't have a photograph of this stone either.

Could the two John Lindsay's be father and son?

The plot book for the old churchyard only begins about 1880 so the burials recorded are all late 19th and early 20th century.

For the 1st plot with the small "1826" stone, the owners, in Victorian times are recorded as "John Lindsay & Jean Robertson". (So, that has helped fill in the missing Christian name). The interments are listed as - (all dates are of burial)
In the South lair -
MARGARET SHERIDAN, aged 23 years, 16th February 1910.
In the Centre lair -
GEORGE SHERDAN, aged 72 years, 28th September 1901.
THOMAS C. SHERIDAN, aged 8 months, 23rd January 1906.
MARGARET SHERIDAN, aged 76 years, 27th January 1923.
In the North lair -
WILLIAM SHERIDAN, aged 9 months, 13th September 1899.
ANNIE SHERIDAN, aged 3 months, 13th February 1905.

For the next stone, the owner, in Victorian times, is listed as John Lindsay. (This is the one with Christina Cunningham wife).
In the Centre lair -
WILLIAM LINDSAY, aged 80 years, 2nd February 1891.
CATHERINE LINDSAY, aged 83 years, 29th Decenber 1910.
MARGARET LINDSAY, aged - - -, 21st October 1933.
In the North lair -
MARGARET LINDSAY, aged 83 years, 28th December 1888.
WILLIAM LINDSAY, aged 41 years, 27th November 1907.

The next plot also has a Lindsay connection but there is no corresponding headstone. The owners are listed as Margaret Lindsay, William Bulloch and Jane Lindsay.
In the South lair -
MARGARET LINDSAY, aged 77 years, 21st October 1933.
In the Centre lair -
JESSIE BULLOCH, aged 67 years, 3rd November 1902.

Unfortunately there is very little information in the gravediggers day books for these graves, the old churchyard is not mentioned in the new cemetery day books until 1906 and the records I have end at 1916. I did find 2 entries, both for the Lindsay & Cunningham plot.

WILLIAM LINDSAY, bank clerk, Blantyre, unmarried, aged 41 years.
Parents - William Lindsay & Catherine Wingfield.
Interred in the old churchyard on 27th November 1907.

CATHERINE LINDSAY, Blantyre, aged 83 years, widow.
Parents - John Wingfield & Agnes Calderwood.
Interred in the old churchyard on 29th December 1910.

I hope you can link in to the Sheridans?

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 30 May 13 11:43 BST (UK)
Sorry Granny G. forgot to add this entry from the Day Book -

MARGARET SHERIDAN, domestic servant, Wishaw, aged 23 years, unmarried.
Parents - George Sheridan & Margaret Lawrie.
Buried in the old churchyard on 16th February 1910.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: OldGrannyG on Friday 31 May 13 07:17 BST (UK)
Thanks Lodger!  But funny how a little information makes everything so much more confusing!

So I am very sure that this stone of John Lindsay and ?Jean Robertson is the one that I am looking for.  As far as the John Lindsay == father and son........well, the elder did have a son named John, but not until 1782--which doesn't quite add up for the dates on the next stone.  And they may very well be related somehow.

John's son William Lindsay emigrated to Canada in 1821, but I don't know what happened to all the the other children:

Jean Lindsay  b. 1770
William Lindsay  b. 1773----emigrated to Canada
James Lindsay  b. 1776
Francis Lindsay  b. 1778
Alicia Lindsay   b. 1780
John Lindsay  b. 1782

Sorry, but I can't make any link to the Sheridan's at this time.

Gail
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Friday 31 May 13 08:26 BST (UK)
Are you sure the whole family didn't go to Canada? Did William marry before he went?

Just in case you can fit him in sometime in the future, here's another Lindsay!

JOHN LINDSAY, joiner, Wishaw, aged 70 years, married.
Parents - John Lindsay & Christina Cunningham.
Interred in the Private walled burial ground at Cambusnethan on 25th November 1884.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sage on Friday 31 May 13 09:17 BST (UK)
Had a peak on an ancestry tree with this Lindsay family...can't attest to it's accuracy but it may be helpful.  John Lindsay 1745 - 1798 was the son of John Lindsay and Margaret Millar (a birth cert is shown as proof).  Jean Robertson is shown with dates 1739 - 1826.

Children of John and Jean:
William b 1773 and died 1861 in Ramsay Township, Ontario
James b 1776 and died 1841...doesn't say where
Francis b 1778...no further info
Cecilia (Alicia) b 1780 and died abt 1863 in Almonte, Ontario
John 1782 - 1842 Cambusnethan

John Lindsay (son of above) b 16 Jun 1782 d 1842 Cambusnethan married Christina Cunningham 11 Jan 1805.  Three children are named for this couple:
Margaret b 1805 and died 25 Dec 1888 aged 83.
William b 1811 and died 1891 aged 80 in Cambusnethan (matches Lodger's records)
Marion b 1820 and died 13 Feb 1877 Glasgow.

Hope this is of some use to you...Sage.

Also William (son of John Lindsay & Christina Cunningham) married Catherine Wingfield 05 Sep 1847.
John & Christina's daug Marion Lindsay died a pauper, 13 Feb 1877 aged 57 and is buried at Cambusnethan
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: OldGrannyG on Saturday 01 June 13 07:01 BST (UK)
Are you sure the whole family didn't go to Canada? Did William marry before he went? 

William Lindsay and Ann Campbell were married in 1800 and had about 8 children in the Cambusnethan area and then emigrated to Canada.  But I'm not sure what happened to the rest of John Lindsay and Jean Robertson's offspring. 

Looks like Sage has some other input--let me check it out--it looks VERY promising.  The children of John Lindsay and Jean Robertson are generally correct, however they are missing Jean Lindsay, b. 1770.

Thanks Lodger & Sage!!!  Looks like you're both right, and I can link some of this family together!

Granny G
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sage on Saturday 01 June 13 08:30 BST (UK)
Hi Granny G,

I was wondering today if you were able to access the death of Margt (daug of John Lindsay & Christina Cunningham) who died 25 Dec 1888 aged 83, might it prove a SHERIDAN link?
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 01 June 13 21:59 BST (UK)
Whoever gave you the nom de plume of SAGE was right on the mark Heather! You'll be getting Rootschat Member of the Month award. (A visit to Cam'nethan cemetery).

Back to business (I'm trying hard to win the award too - Monica has promised me something nice).

Lindsay & Robertson.

I found a way of photographing this stone but don't ask how I did it  :-X

There is an inscription on the back of this stone but I just CANNOT make it out. I will post it and see what better eyes than mine can do. The actual inscription on the front does help as it reads -

"1826 Here lies the remains of John Lindsay and Jean Robertson his spouse". This implies (in my opinion) that this stone was erected shortly after the remaining one of the died. So it isn't a "marker stone" erected by John & Jean, as is so very often the case but, it has been erected as a memorial. I wonder where the tree on A.....y found out the date of death for Jean? 1826 is the very latest but she may have died years before.

here's the picture, this is the older of the inscriptions, the one on the reverse side is definately a later one.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 01 June 13 22:07 BST (UK)
Here's one of the many taken of the reverse side.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 01 June 13 22:27 BST (UK)

Back to business (I'm trying hard to win the award too - Monica has promised me something nice).


Triple Gold Stars and chocolates, Lodger. With all your help to everyone and knowledge!  ;D

Monica
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 01 June 13 23:18 BST (UK)

Triple Gold Stars and chocolates, Lodger. With all your help to everyone and knowledge! 

How about a wee something in a bottle instead?  ;)
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: OldGrannyG on Sunday 02 June 13 07:01 BST (UK)
Lodger, YOU ARE AMAZING!!!!!  Best........present...........ever!  And nope, I can't see the fence.  Thank you so much!

Many hugs, from Old Granny G
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: kb0fhp on Sunday 02 June 13 18:43 BST (UK)
Lodger:

If it is possible, could you provide photographs of the Mirrelees monuments?  It would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you.

Scott
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 02 June 13 19:10 BST (UK)
Hi Scott,

There really is only 1 Mirriless stone but I don't have a picture of it. I Dont know if it has survived but I will check it out this week. It is the Alexander Mirrilees & Rebecca Russell plot, is this the one you want?
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: kb0fhp on Sunday 02 June 13 19:25 BST (UK)
Thank you Lodger - there were several Merrillees/Mirrilees monuments listed in the first Cambusnethan Cemetery Search.  The Alexander and Rebecca monument would be wonderful.  He was my 3rd Grand Uncle.  Any or all of them would be excellent.  I believe you had indicated that they were buried in the Clyde Burial Ground.

This part of the family was virtually unknown until your excellent help with the monuments - this filled in a substantial part of the family that we knew nothing about.  From the monuments I was able to find and document many of the family.

Scott
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 02 June 13 19:35 BST (UK)
Hi Scott,

In the previous Cambusneth Search there was mention of Merrilees/Mirrilees but not monuments. The information all came from the burial records. Have a look at this link
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,183738.40.html

If you don't have the Alexander & Rebecca burial information I can post it here. They both lived in Glasgow at the time of their deaths.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: kb0fhp on Sunday 02 June 13 19:54 BST (UK)
Lodger:

Thank you.  I didn't know that there were no monuments and only records.  Regardless - thank you for your help.  That was a monumental  ;D help in tracing this family.  Thank you again.

Scott
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Skoosh on Thursday 13 June 13 10:11 BST (UK)
Lodger,  have you got, "Historical Sketches of the Parish of Cambusnethan",

http://archive.org/stream/historicalcasket00brow#page146/mode2up

Hope this works,

Skoosh.

It doesn't work, you'll get it on here,

http://drmarkjardine.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/handed-down-from-the-scaffold-the-cargill-bible/
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 13 June 13 11:37 BST (UK)
Hi Skoosh,

A friend of mine gave it to me on a disc years ago, just don't ask me to put my hands on it anytime soon! I have read it though. I also have Thomas Orr's "Historic & Descriptive Sketches of the Joint Burgh" published in 1925, quite a good book (and signed by the author).
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Skoosh on Thursday 13 June 13 22:29 BST (UK)
The Joint Burgh, Lodger? I knew the guys are fond of the Buckie out there, but joints?  ;D

Bests,

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 13 June 13 23:28 BST (UK)
The strongest thing we drink out here is Irn Bru Skoosh - we're tough guys! In fact we even sleep with the lights out.
The joint burgh of Motherwell & Wishaw. The 2 burghs joined in 1920.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 14 June 13 09:59 BST (UK)
You're beginning to sound like Tam Cowan  ;D

Skoosh
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: tidybooks on Friday 14 June 13 11:00 BST (UK)
The strongest thing we drink out here is Irn Bru Skoosh - we're tough guys! In fact we even sleep with the lights out.

Ha Ha Ha...Wishie, where men are men and so are the women!

Tom
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Friday 14 June 13 11:11 BST (UK)
Skoosh - wash your mouth  :o

Tidybooks - leave my grannie out of this  :'(
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 14 June 13 14:02 BST (UK)
 ;D
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: scott55 on Saturday 27 December 14 18:01 GMT (UK)
hi lodger

in camby craves part 1 page 1 reply 268 you mention a john dale being buried in a paupers grave this is my g grandfather James dale brother i was wondering have you fund any other dales i must have a lot of family up there but haven't fund any  and how do you find out were people are buried
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 28 December 14 10:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Scott55,

I am on holiday this week and don't have access to my files, I will get back to you with answers as soon as I get home, which will be later in the week.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 01 January 15 13:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Scott55,

A good New Year to you.

I can't find the original entry that you speak of in the 1st Cambusnethan Grave Search. That one was started many years ago by the late Ronnie Porteous.

It would help if you could tell me what was in that entry for John Dale, as the only John I could find was buried on March 8th 1915 but not in a paupers grave.
There are a few Dales, do you know any of the female maiden surnames?
The names connected to the Dales I've found are - Young, Harkness, Mitchell, Scott, Golden, Mullen, O'Neil and Dunford.
There are female Dales linked to the names Cullen, Aitken and Garrity.

Lodger.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Maza on Thursday 01 January 15 13:37 GMT (UK)
Hi, Lodger very kindly sent me a photo of an M.I. for Lockhart Stewart in Cambusnethan churchyard.

My Scottish cousin would like to take her daughter to see it.

I would appreciate any direction for her to find it.

Happy New Year to all.    Thank you....Maza
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 01 January 15 14:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Maza,

It should be fairly easy to find (if it's still there) and I have included a picture showing the Stewart stone in the foreground. The church hall at the back is across the street (Greenhead Road), the old ruined church is out of sight on the right of the picture and there is a high stone wall out of sight on the left. If your cousin comes in from the small roundabout inside the cemetery gates and crosses the empty space (a few old trees there), she should just keep the church hall in front of her, the Stewart stone should be approximately on line with the nearest gable of the ruined church, not too far into the burial ground.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: scott55 on Friday 02 January 15 12:31 GMT (UK)
 hi lodger

thanks for replying that's the right dale it was a long reply and i must have miss read it this is part of the post Mary dale & john dale are siblings as is James dale ( the one I'm looking for) the O'Neil and dunford are also linked

OHN CULLEN. Coalminer, Wishaw, aged 19 years, single.
Parents - Patrick Cullen and Mary Dale.
Interred 26th January 1901.

JOHN DALE. Coalminer, Wishaw, aged 65 years, married.
Parents - James Dale and Margaret Golden.
Interred 8th March 1915.

thanks Scott55
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Friday 02 January 15 13:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Scott55,

I now understand. You found the entry for the Cain family and the 2 men you mention - John Cullen & John Dale are in plot E128. (Not, as you thought, common ground).
That has been established and I won't repeat them on the list below. This is what I've found -
I will list the names in family plots (lairs) where possible.

Plot C617. (6 burials)

JAMES DALE, labourer, Wishaw. Aged 65 years. Married.
Parents unknown.
Interred 2nd December 1885.

CATHERINE CULLEN, Wishaw. Aged 4 years.
Parents - Patrick Cullen & Mary Dale.
Interred 13th October 1890.

PATRICK DALE, coal miner, Wishaw. Aged 45 years. Married.
Parents - James Dale & Margaret Golden.
Interred 18th April 1892.

MARGARET DALE, Wishaw. Aged 11 months.
Parents - James Dale & Jane O'Neil.
Interred 26th September 1893.

MARGARET DALE, Wishaw. Aged 80 years. Widow.
Parents - Patrick Golden & Maria Dunford.
Interred 22nd February 1899.

JOSEPHINE HANNAH DALE, Wishaw. Aged 10 months.
Father - John Dale. (no mother's name supplied).
Interred 30th March 1900.

Plot A2317. (2 burials)

SUSAN AITKEN, Overtown. Aged 58 years. Widow.
Parents - William Dale & Susan Scott.
Interred 27th December 1913.
Plot owner - William Dale, pithead labourer, 20 Boyd's Rows, Overtown.

HELEN S. DALE, 4 Park Street Wishaw. Aged 4 years.
Parents - James Dale & Agnes Smith.
Interred 16th May 1916.

The following 5 entries are all interred in common ground (sometimes called public ground).

MARGARET DALE, Wishaw. Aged 2 weeks.
Parents - Patrick Dale & Margaret Mullen.
Interred 14th February 1874.

JAMES DALE, Wishaw. Aged 2 years.
Parents - Patrick Dale & Margaret Mullen.
Interred 30th July 1877.

MARY DALE, housewife, Wishaw. Aged 22 years. Married.
Parents - Peter Garrity & Jane Rorke.
Interred 25th December 1876.

JANE DALE, Wishaw. Aged 3 years.
Parents - William Dale & Isabella Harkness.
Interred 19th February 1878.

ISABELLA YOUNG DALE, housewife, Overtown. Aged 64 years. Married.
Parents - Thomas Harkness & Betty Mitchell.
Interred 5th November 1912.

That's all I have, at least you have 2 lair numbers to check, there may or may not be headstones there. The cemetery foreman will point you to the graves if you visit during working hours.

Lodger.

Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: scott55 on Friday 02 January 15 14:25 GMT (UK)
 hi lodger

 thanks  that's plenty, there are at least 4 direct and possibly 2 or 3 indirect family

 Scott55
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: stwrt on Wednesday 28 January 15 10:16 GMT (UK)
This new post is a continuation of previous post here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,183738.0.html. The older post is now closed for new enquiries. Please put all new enquiries on this new post.

There are a number of people who have knowledge and access to records from this cemetery.

Thank you  :)

Monica



Hi I'm wondering if you can help I'm looking for Mcgilps in this area, and wonder if you have any info?

Kind Regards
Gillian Stewart-Jamieson
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Wednesday 28 January 15 11:12 GMT (UK)
I could only find 2 references to the name McGilp in the Cambusnethan records.

CATHERINE McGILP DICKSON. Died at Motherwell Fever Hospital, usual residence Newmains. Aged 6years & 5 months.
Parents - William Dickson & Marion McGilp. Interred in Section E205 on 10th August 1907.

ANN McCULLOCH. Upper Calander Orchard, aged 84 years. Widow.
Parents - Alexander Livingston & Mary McGilp. Interred in the old churchyard on 21st December 1909.

If you have a connection to this McCulloch family please let me know and I will post the monumental inscriptions and the plot records.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: tazpants on Sunday 24 May 15 22:31 BST (UK)
Hi Lodger,
Just wondered if it would be at all possible to obtain a pic of this stone if its accessible. If not then no problem. I appreciate your time and effort.

Cheers

David



Hi Tazpants,

There is a family plot in the old churchyard, the owner, in Victorian times, is listed as Gardner Turner. The plot book only records those buried after about 1880 (and even then I'm not convinced it was always kept up to date). The gravediggers Day Books pad-out what's missing pre-1880 but no records exist at all prior to 1861, apart from the headstone inscriptions and there is one for this plot, I'll begin with that.
"Gardner Turner died 1869 aged 79 years. His wife Catron Paton died May 1833 aged 45 years. Their daughter Mary died 1892 aged 64 years. Sarah Hamilton Turner died 1864 aged 3 years. Robert Turner died 1866 aged 1 year. John Turner died 1869 aged 19 years. Christina Turner died 1869 aged 1 year".
From the plot book - (all dates are of burial)
In the Centre lair -
MARGARET FROOD, aged 88 years, 29th July 1887.
MARION TURNER, aged 84 years, 20th August 1899.
SAMUEL F. TURNER, aged 68 years, 8th June 1920..
In the North lair - MARY TURNER, aged 64 years, 5th August 1892.

Entries from the gravediggers Day Books -

CATHERINE TURNER OR GOLD, straw hat maker, Cambusnethan, aged 45 years, widow.
Parents - Gardiner Turner & Catherine Paton.
Old churchyard on 1st February 1862.

SARAH HAMILTON TURNER, Stane, aged 3 years.
Parents - William Turner & Christina Allan.
Old churchyard on 7th September 1864.

JAMES TURNER, mason, Cocket Hat, aged 52 years, married.
Parents - Gardner Turner & Catherine Paton.
Old churchyard on 18th September 1865.

ROBERT TURNER, Old Stane, aged 21 months.
Parents - William Turner & Christina Allan.
Old churchyard on 21st November 1866.

JANET INGLIS, housewife, Crindledyke, aged 40 years, married.
Parents - Gardner Turner & Catherine Paton.
Old churchyard on 10th April 1869.

GARDNER TURNER, mason, Stane, aged 80 years, widower.
Parents unknown.
Old churchyard on 26th June 1869.

JOHN TURNER, mason, Stane, aged 19 years, unmarried.
Parents - William Turner & Christina Allan.
Old churchyard on 10th November 1869.

CHRISTINA TURNER, Stane, aged 10 months.
Parents - William Turner & Christina Allan.
Old churchyard on 18th November 1869.

WILLIAM TURNER, Wishaw, (unsure about the age - either 26 years or 2 years & 6 months).
Parents - James Turner & Marion Frood.
Old churchyard on 9th January 1871.

GARDNER PATON, mason, Wishaw, aged 36 years, unmarried.
Parents - James Turner & Marion Frood.
Old churchyard on 7th December 1875.

Another plot in the old churchyard that I think must be related to the Turner family - the owners in Victorian times were David Christie & Mary Turner of Shotts.

In the South lair -
DAVID CHRISTIE, aged 2 years & 6 months, 9th October 1880.
In the Centre lair -
JOHN TURNER, aged 55 years, 27th January 1902.

From the Day Books -

GARDNER CHRISTIE, Cambusnethan, aged 1 year.
Parents - Gardner Christie & Jane Pollock.
Old churchyard on 19th October 1872.

DAVID CHRISTIE, Chapelhall, aged 5 years.
Parents - Gardner Christie & Jane Pollock.
Old churchyard on 12th November 1872.

CATHERINE CHRISTIE, Chapelhall, aged 10 months.
Parents - Gardner Christie & Jane Pollock.
Old churchyard on 10th April 1877.

DAVID CHRISTIE, Cambusnethan, aged 2 years & 6 months.
Parents - Gardner Christie & Jane Pollock.
Old churchyard on 9th October 1880.

ROBERT CHRISTIE, Blantyre, aged 10 months.
Parents - Gardner Christie & Jane Pollock.
Old churchyard on 5th July 1881.

Hope that fills in some gaps for you! The Cocket Hat is an area between Cambusnethan village and Wishaw, at the foot of the Kirk Brae - corner of Coltness Road and Kirk Road. Stane is part of modern-day Shotts.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Monday 25 May 15 00:40 BST (UK)
Hi David, I don't have a picture of the stone and it may not have survived from the time the inscriptions were transcribed 32 years ago but I'll have a look next time I'm there.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: ard on Wednesday 06 January 16 02:20 GMT (UK)
WOW the years that this thread has been going from it's first to second incarnation. Lodger your name has appeared throughout, you are a real tour de force - may I extend my most gracious thanks for all the help you have given me and other, and thank you too to all other other kind souls as well.

Just had a wee peek at the old tree and wonder about some of my "tentative links".

Back as far as I can go with some certainty, my gggg grandmother Margaret Williamson, daughter of john Williamson and Agnes Carmichael (or Campbell depending on the source) She was married to Robert Halliday, a coalminer.

Cambusnethan Deaths (#40)
Halliday, Margaret, Widow of a Coalminer
1859 February 28 11:30 pm in Chapel (Lanark) 80 yrs
father: John Williamson, Shepherd (deceased)
mother: Agnes Williamson ( maiden name Campbell) (deceased)
cause: general debility several years
certified by James Livingstone, physician Wishaw who saw deceased 28 Feb 1857
Buried Carluke Cemetery cetified by...
(informant) Elizabeth Halliday, her mark X, daughter in law present

I am curious about the Hallidays because I am pretty sure of a connection with another family that I can't find proof of!

My ggg grandfather John's father (b. at Crawford) was Robert Halliday (who was married to Margaret Williamson). I only know of two sibilings: Agnes and Violet, but I expect there must have been more.

-HOLIDAY, John   Christening   Gender:   Male   Birth Date:   1 Sep 1804   
   Christening Date:   24 Dec 1804   Recorded in:   Crawford, Lanarkshire, Scotland
   Father:   Robert HOLIDAY
   Mother:   Margret WILLIAMSON
Source:   FHL Film 1066586   Dates:   1698 - 1855

In the same family would be (IGI): batch C116352
-Agnes HOLIDAY   Christening:  24 MAR 1806   Crawford, Lanark, Scotland
  Father:  ROBERT HOLIDAY
  Mother:  MARGRET WILLIAMSON 

-Carluke OPR 13/08/1839
Violet daughter to Robert Halliday and Margaret Williamson, Chapel, Cambusnethan buried August 13 1839 aged 21 years, consumption.

I firmly believe that Robert Halliday was closely related to Archibald Halliday (m. Marion Penman) as the two families seem somewhat intertwined in the various census records in the 19C. But I have no proof what the relationship was: siblings? cousins?

Robert was born out of Lanark county.

The best candidate I could find that would link Archibald and Robert (given other knowns are:

Father:    THOMAS HALIDAY  Mother:  ANNE CAMPBELL
 IGI batch 7417621 ARCHIBALD  HALIDAY  Christening:  01 OCT 1786  Killin, Perth, Scotland

 IGI batch 7417622 ROBERT HALIDAY  Christening:     01 APR 1781      Killin, Perth, Scotland


Both families had members buried at carluke and lived side by side in Wishaw.

OPR deaths 62900 355 Carluke
Archibald Halliday Husband of Marion Penman Crossford (?) buried Oct 27th1840, aged 54 years

(a possibility for Robert but Marion is not Margaret and Hallowday..?)
OPR deaths Carluke
1851 Robert Hallowday husband of Marion Williamson buried 4th March aged 69 years

My ggg grandparents John Halliday and Elizabeth Blair Dick, their daughter Agnes (the only one I can't find a birth record for ) was my gg grandmother, born between 1841-1843)

I am not 100% sure that this in my John Halliday but it seems likely:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~miningvillages/1853deaths.html

May 5 1853 Name of Colliery: Drumpellar Near where situated: Coatbridge Owners name: Trustees of late John Wilson
Person killed: John Halliday cause of death: Fall of stone in road

Clearly life as a miner was often cut short.

(David son of John Halliday)
Cambusnethan deaths # 208
Halliday David Coalminer single
1857 November 28 8:45 am in "Bush"(I was told that for Bush" you may see on maps as "Tarbush" or "Tarbrush" or the older form "Tarbrax".)
age 27
years father John Halliday, coalminer (deceased)mother Elizabeth Halliday (maiden name Dick)
severe internal injuries resulting from explosion of fire damp in coal pit
buried Carluke Churchyard Elizabeth Halliday Her mark X, present

their last son, James:
Cambusnethan deaths 1858  # 49
1858 February 26th 1:10 pm (?) 6 yrs
father John Halliday Coalminer (deceased)mother Elizabeth Halliday maiden name Dick
cause: Hydrocephalus ~ six days ~ certified by Robert Livingstone Physician Wishaw who saw the deceased the 26th of Feb.buried Carluke Cemetery
informant Elizabeth Halliday her mark X mother present

What I am really hoping to find is parents of Robert and or Archibald and something more definitive identifying the relationship between the two! and to be able to then figure out who Robert's parents might have been!

Thank you for your patience if you made it to the end  :P

ard


Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 07 January 16 13:24 GMT (UK)
Hello Ard, welcome back to the Cambusnethan grave search! And, Happy New Year to you.

It's difficult to know where to begin as I don't know what information you have already.

first of all, Bush was an area in Wishaw, on the modern maps it is situated on that part of Stewarton Street where it meets Greenhead Road. Bush Cottages were on the corner. It may be possible to see them on old maps.

The baptism records for the Wishaw Relief Church. There are several entries for your Hallidays.

JOHN, 8th child of John Halliday, miner, Chapel and Elizabeth Dick his wife.
Born 10th July 1847 & baptised 8th August 1847 by Rev Peter Brown.
(No mention of the previous 7 children).

JAMES, 9th child of John Halliday, miner, Chapel and Elizabeth Dick his wife.
Born 13th April 1852, baptised 28th May 1852 by Rev Peter Brown.
Note in margin - Died 27th February 1858.

Still with the Relief Church baptisms.
The following Marion Halliday was the daughter of Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
JAMES, 1st child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Cambusnethan Kirk and Marion Halliday.
Born 27th October 1838, baptised 13th January 1839 by Rev P Brown.

MARION, 2nd child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Cambusnethan Kirk and Marion Halliday.
Born 4th October 1840, baptised 25th October 1840 by Rev P Brown.

ELIZABETH, 3rd child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Cambusnethan Kirk and Marion Halliday.
Born 8th May 1842. (no other information given).

JANET, 4th child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Cambusnethan Kirk and Marion Halliday.
Born 5th February 1844, baptised 10th March 1844 by Rev P Brown.

CHRISTINA, 5th child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Overtown and Marion Halliday.
Born 10th April 1846, baptised 3rd May 1846 by Rev P Brown.

AGNES, 6th child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Overtown and Marion Halliday.
Born 22nd February 1848, baptised 20th March 1848 by Rev P Brown.

MARY, 7th child of Thomas Scott, sawyer, Cambusnethan Kirk and Marion Halliday.
Born 24th March 1850, baptised 21st April 1850 by Rev P Brown.

The following Margaret Halliday was the daughter of John Halliday & Elizabeth Blair Dick.
ELIZABETH BLAIR DICK LITTLEJOHN, 2nd child of David Littlejohn, miner, Bush and Margaret Halliday.
Born 5th January 1855, baptised 21st January 1855 by Rev P Brown.

JOHN HALLIDAY LITTLEJOHN, 3rd child of David Littlejohn, miner, Bush Cottage & Margaret Halliday.
Born 10th June 1857, baptised 5th July 1857 by Rev P Brown.

WILLIAM, 4th child of David Littlejohn, miner, Bush cottages Stewarton & Margaret Halliday.
Born 7th October 1860, baptised 4th November 1860 by Rev P Brown.

There are also baptisms for children of George Gold & Mary Halliday residing at Cambusnethan Kirk and for Alexander Hamilton & Agnes Halliday residing at Chapel. I suspect that Mary and Agnes could be siblings of Margaret and Marion Halliday.

Finally, for the moment, I'll leave you with a picture of the Reverend Peter Brown.
Burial records to follow after I've had a bit of lunch.





Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: ard on Thursday 07 January 16 14:48 GMT (UK)
On the right track! You are truly a generous soul! It might be easier for me to tell you what I do have but I will say right off that I didn't have the actual birth dates (mostly gleaned from census calculations) of the children of John Halliday and Elizabeth Blair Dick! So thank you very much for the birth-baptismal info of James and John.

What was the Wishaw Relief church (my mind can't help asking: relief from what?!)

I must be missing the name of at least two children, if John was the 8th because by my records he is the 6th of 7. No doubt a few of the children died very young.

The children's names that I do have with estimated birth and death years:
David (1830-1857) buried Carluke.
Margaret (m. David Littlejohn) b.1832 d.1911)
Elizabeth b. 1839 d? early?
Agnes (my ggg grandmother m.James Leggat) b.1842 d.1906 Whitehaven, Cumberland
Robert (m. Mary Allan) b1845 d.1916
John (m. 1 Elizabeth McLennan 2. Elizabeth Anderson) b. 1848- d.1916
MAYBE another Elizabeth b 1851 but that is speculative.
James (1852-1858)

in 1841 my Hallidays were living at"Bogside and Chapel in Cambusnethan" I am not familiar with the area but could it be that they moved and changed churches (it to the Wishaw Relief church) after the first 7 children were born?

Of the children of John and Elizabeth Halliday, I DO have the burial info for: David, James, John and Robert.

I almost have more on the children of Archibald and Marion but, as I say I don't know if Archibald was the brother of Robert Halliday (father of my gggg grandfather John) or not! I do note that both Archibald and Robert named a child Violette which doesn't seem to crop up too often as a name.

I think John (b  about 1804 Crawford) and Elizabeth Blair Dick ( b. about 1807 Glasgow) according to 1851 census were married about 1830.

It is really interesting and confusing (but not surprising) how the families ties of so many of the miners are so intricately intertwined. Everyone seems to be related to someone, by marriage at least.

Thanks again for all your help lodger, across the boards.

ard

P.S. RE: "There are also baptisms for children of George Gold & Mary Halliday residing at Cambusnethan Kirk and for Alexander Hamilton & Agnes Halliday residing at Chapel. I suspect that Mary and Agnes could be siblings of Margaret and Marion Halliday."

Yes they are. The children I have for Marion and Archibald (b. between 1810 and 1835) are:
Janet; Agnes (Hamilton); Marion (Scott); Mary (Gold); Margaret (Gray); Thomas (m. Cassels); Isabella (Robb); Elizabeth (Muir); Grizzel (Stevenson); Robert (m. Patterson and Armstrong); John (m. Russell) & Violett (m. Brownlie)







Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: ard on Thursday 07 January 16 14:59 GMT (UK)
error... don't know how to delete this  ??? :P
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: ard on Thursday 07 January 16 15:16 GMT (UK)
 :P and this to delete as well, as it is a repeat of my post. I seem to be getting my buttons mixed up this morning!  :-[
 

On the right track! You are truly a generous soul! It might be easier for me to tell you what I do have but I will say right off that I didn't have the actual birth dates (mostly gleaned from census calculations) of the children of John Halliday and Elizabeth Blair Dick! So thank you very much for the birth-baptismal info of James and John.

What was the Wishaw Relief church (my mind can't help asking: relief from what?!)

I must be missing the name of at least one child, if John was the 8th because by my records he is the 6th of 7. No doubt a few of the children died very young.

The children's names that I do have with estimated birth and death years:
David (1830-1857) buried Carluke.
Margaret (m. David Littlejohn) b.1832 d.1911)
Elizabeth b. 1839 d? early?
Agnes (my ggg grandmother m.James Leggat) b.1842 d.1906 Whitehaven, Cumberland
Robert (m. Mary Allan) b1845 d.1916
John (m. 1 Elizabeth McLennan 2. Elizabeth Anderson) b. 1848- d.1916
MAYBE another Elizabeth b 1851 but that is speculative.
James (1852-1858)

in 1841 my Hallidays were living at"Bogside and Chapel in Cambusnethan" I am not familiar with the area but could it be that they moved and changed churches (it to the Wishaw Relief church) after the first 7 children were born?


I DO have the burial info for:
David, James, John and Robert.

I almost have more on the children of Archibald and Marion but, as I say I don't know if Archibald was the brother of Robert Halliday (father of my gggg grandfather John) or not! I do note that both Archibald and Robert named a child Violette which doesn't seem to crop up too often as a name.

I think John (b  about 1804 Crawford) and Elizabeth Blair Dick ( b. about 1807 Glasgow) according to 1851 census were married about 1830.

It is really interesting and confusing (but not surprising) how the families ties of so many of the miners are so intricately intertwined. Everyone seems to be related to someone, by marriage at least.

Thanks again for all your help lodger, across the boards.

ard
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 07 January 16 17:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Ard,

Lunch over, back to work!

The "Relief Church" was The Relief Congregation Church, it was a Secessionist church, one of the many that seceded from the main Presbyterian Church of Scotland at various times in the 18th and 19th centuries.  It was done, to begin with, because of the Patronage Act of 1711. A quote from Wikipedia -
"The Church Patronage (Scotland) Act 1711 or Patronage Act is an Act of the Parliament of Great Britain. The long title of the act is An Act to restore the Patrons to their ancient Rights of presenting Ministers to the Churches vacant in that Part of Great Britain called Scotland. Its purpose was to allow the noble and other Patrons in Scotland to gain control over the Church of Scotland parish churches again, having lost that custom in the so-called Glorious Revolution".

In other words, the local landowners were given the right to select the minister for the parish, even if it was someone highly unpopular with the parishioners. (Usually because he was too "highbrow" to suit the local folk).
Read more - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_Church

I think you are probably on the right track with Archibald and Robert, it does seem to be too much of a coincidence that they both named a daughter Violet. Even if you can't prove it yet, just store the information away until the time comes that you can.

Here's more.
There is an inscription for a tombstone in Cambusnethan old churchyard which may or may not still be readable, the transcript was taken about 35 years ago and the weather and vandals have taken their toll between times.
"Archibald Halliday died 16th January 1938 aged 75 years, husband of Christina Hamilton. His father John died 27th May 1877 aged 48 years. His mother Ann Russell died aged 58 years. His sister Maggie died in infancy. His sister Annie died 7th June 1862 aged 4 years. His sister Maggie died 12th May 1870 aged 16 years. His sister Marion died April 1899 aged 43 years (wife of George Inglis, their son Alexander died 13th May 1892 aged 1 year)".

It doesn't mention a date of death for Ann Russell but it may be her in the Plot Book with a burial date of 9th December 1888, aged 59 years.
Strangely, she is the only entry for this plot, the owner is listed as Archibald Halliday. I know it is the right plot as the names in the plots either side match with the ones in the Monumental Inscriptions book.

Some entries from the gravediggers Day Book for Cambusnethan -
MARGARET LITTLEJOHN, Wishaw, aged 79 years, widow.
Parents - John Halliday & Elizabeth Blair Dick.
Interred in the old churchyard on 15th May 1911.

MARION PATERSON LITTLEJOHN, Bush, aged 22 months.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 11th November 1865.

ELIZABETH B.D. LITTLEJOHN, Wishaw, aged 13 years.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 1st April 1868.

JAMES LITTLEJOHN, Wishaw, aged 20 months.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 9th February 1872.

JOHN HALLIDAY LITTLEJOHN, hostler, Wishaw, aged 18 years, unmarried.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 3rd August 1875.

JANET LITTLEJOHN, Wishaw, aged 10 months.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 7th August 1876.

ARCHIBALD LITTLEJOHN, coal miner, Wishaw, aged 18 years, unmarried.
Parents - David Littlejohn & Margaret Halliday.
Old churchyard on 18th July 1868.

The Plot Book (which only dates from the late 1870s) for this plot gives the following interments -
(Plot was owned by Archibald Littlejohn and all surnames are Littlejohn, so I wont repeat them)
In the south lair -
MARGARET, aged 9 years. 1st April 1882.
WILLIAM, aged 22 years. 25th April 1883.
MARION, aged 73 years. 17th November 1886.
MARGARET W.H. aged 9 years. 15th March 1898.
in the north lair -
DAVID, aged 64 years. 16th January 1884.
MARGARET, aged 79 years. 15th May 1911.

There is a monumental inscription for this plot but it pre-dates all of the above names except Marion who died 1886. She must have been a sister to David. His mother was Marion Paterson who died 1868.

continued in the next post -- I've exceeded the limit!
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 07 January 16 17:12 GMT (UK)
Back to the Day Book entries.

ISABELLA ROBB, housewife, Newmains, aged 42 years, married.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Old churchyard on 17th June 1862.

ROBERT HALLIDAY, miner, Waterloo, aged 46, married.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Old churchyard on 3rd September 1870.

JOHN HALLIDAY, engine cleaner, pauper, Newmains, aged 48 years, married.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Old churchyard on 29th May 1877.

THOMAS HALLIDAY, miner, Waterloo, aged 61 years, married.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Old churchyard on 21st February 1879.

ARCHIBALD HALLIDAY, coal miner, Law, aged 61 years, widower.
Parents - Thomas Halliday &  - - - - -  Cassells.
Old churchyard on 15th May 1907.

These last two must be father & son, they are in the same plot, it was owned by Thomas Halliday and according to the Plot Book it has the following occupants (all with the surname Halliday) -
In the south lair -
ARCHIBALD, aged 61 years. 15th May 1907.
In the centre lair -
MARION S. aged 55 years. 26th October 1905.
In the north lair -
THOMAS, aged 61 years. 21st February 1879.
Unknown Halliday, no age given. 28th May 1886. (probably a stillbirth).

Still with the Day Book, this time we've moved over to the new cemetery -

VIOLET BROWNLIE, housewife, Hartwood asylum, aged 73 years, married.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Plot B11 on 10th May 1907.

VIOLET BROWNLIE, Bonkle, aged 2 years.
Parents - George Brownlie & Violet Halliday.
Plot B11 on 5th July 1877.

Not too sure about the next 2 but just in case -
CATHERINE BROWNLIE, Wishaw, aged 19 months.
Parents - George Brownlie & Janet Halliday.
Old churchyard on 15th March 1873.

NEWBORN MALE BROWNLIE, 15 minutes.
Parents - George Brownlie & Janet Halliday.
Old churchyard on 27th March 1874.

New cemetery -
Plot D215

DAVID D. HALLIDAY, Wishaw, aged 3 years.
Parents - John Halliday & Elizabeth McLennan.
D215 on 4th July 1892.

ELIZABETH HALLIDAY, housewife, Wishaw, aged 47 years, married.
Parents - Donald McLennan & Catherine Fraser.
D215 on 5th June 1896.

ELIZABETH HALLIDAY, Wishaw, aged 2 years & 9 months.
Parents - John Halliday & Elizabeth Anderson.
D215 on 27th July 1900.

That's the old churchyard and the new cemetery taken care of. Now we're on to the "Walled Private Ground" which was a small, walled area owned by a private burial company but subsequently taken over by the municipal authorities. It dates from 1861 and fits between the old churchyard and the new cemetery (which also dates from 1861).

You'll remember this family from the Relief Church baptisms.
JAMES SCOTT, cashier, Cambusnethan, aged 23 years, unmarried.
Parents - Thomas Scott & Marion Halliday.
Private No.4 on 19th February 1862.

MARY SCOTT, Cambusnethan, aged 12 years.
Parents - Thomas Scott & Marion Halliday.
Private No.4 on 22nd March 1862.

MARION H. SCOTT, Hamilton, aged 87 years, widow.
Parents - Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman.
Private No.4 on 11th September 1901.

ELIZABETH SCOTT, housewife, Hartwood Asylum, aged 68 years, unmarried.
Parents - Thomas Scott & Marion Halliday.
Private No.4 on 19th July 1910.

That's all I can find Ard, I've posted a picture of the Scott family stone (Private No.4) in the last post.





Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 07 January 16 17:50 GMT (UK)
Ard,

One more entry, this time from the Bonkle United Presbyterian Church register of Baptisms.

JANET, daughter of Thomas Halliday, miner, Bonkle and Jane Cassells.
Born 5th June 1851 and baptised 7th September 1851.

Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 07 January 16 18:54 GMT (UK)
Ard, I think I missed these entries -

MARY HALLIDAY, housewife, Overtown, aged 66 years, married.
Parents - William Allan & Jane Smith.
New cemetery C73 on 17th February 1914.

CATHERINE HALLIDAY, Wishaw, aged 2 months.
Parents - John Halliday & Elizabeth McLennan.
C73 on 17th February 1885.

ARCHIBALD ROBB, check-weighman, Morningside, aged 45 years, married.
Parents - James Robb & Isabella Halliday.
New cemetery D341 on 28th December 1891.

ANDREW ROBB, coal miner, Crindledyke, aged 57 years, married.
Parents - James Robb & Isabella Halliday.
New cemetery E2429 on 1st March 1915.
Plot owned by James Robb, coal miner, Brown's Land, Crindledyke.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: ard on Thursday 07 January 16 19:54 GMT (UK)
Once more, thank you for all that, there was some info that I didn't have. All serves as fertilizer for the tree! :D

The Brownlie info is interesting too. Archibald and Marion's first daughter was Janet and I have no death or marriage info for her. Perhaps she was involved with the Brownlie family while Violet was in an asylum (or maybe too Violet sometimes went by the name of Janet??) This isn't so much a request for information but an addition for others who may be looking for the same people.

Violet married George Brownlie in 1856, and at the time of the 1881 and 1901 censuses she was residing at a "lunatic" asylum where she also appears to have died.

Children born to Violet and George:
1. GEORGE BROWNLIE Birth: 09 SEP 1856 Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland (named for father's father and father too)
7. ARCHIBALD HALLIDAY BROWNLIE Birth: 27 OCT 1857 Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland (named for mother's father)
4. JAMES BROWNLIE -Birth: 10 APR 1860 Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland (named for father's oldest brother )
3. THOMAS BROWNLIE -Birth: 20 MAY 1862 Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland (named for mother's oldest brother)
6. MARION PENMAN BROWNLIE Birth: 25 DEC 1864 Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland(named for mother's mother)
2. ELIZABETH (Betsy) KING BROWNLIE  Birth: 27 JUN 1867 Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland (named for father's mother)
5. JANET (Jessie) BROWNLIE Female Birth: 19 MAR 1870 Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland (mother's oldest sister?
8. VIOLET BROWNLIE  Female Birth: 25 AUG 1874 Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland  (named for mother)

Hopefully that might prove helpful to someone's future research as well! Thanks again.

Cheers,

ard

Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Friday 08 January 16 18:41 GMT (UK)
Hi I'm kinda new ☺️ to this chatting but was wondering if you could give me some pointers to searching for my great great grandfather  ↖️↗️⬅️➡️⬆️
He was
William Ross Born 1873 ?Northern Ireland
Died May 20th 1955 137 Cambusnethan Street Wishaw
wife was
Mary Ann Bainland Kerr Veitch Ross Born Dec 14th 1872 Glasgow
Died April 12th 1914 Newmains Cambusnethan
Any idea which graveyard they may be?
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Friday 08 January 16 20:06 GMT (UK)
Hi 27Ster13,

Welcome to Rootschat.

The records I have end at 1916 so I can't say for sure if your gt-gt-grandfather is buried at Cambusnethan cemetery but his wife certainly is. It highly likely that he is also in that grave but, as I said, I don't have that information. Here's what I can tell you, Mary Ann, along with what are probably her parents-in-law, are buried in the municipal cemetery, in section D plot 432.

Details -

MARY ANN B.K. ROSS, housewife, Newmains, aged 42 years, married.
Parents - James Veitch & Louisa Kerr.
Interred in D432 on 14th April 1914.

MARY ROSS, Cambusnethan, aged 62 years, widow.
Parents - Robert Moffat & Isabella Prentice.
Interred in D432 on 23rd January 1907.

WILLIAM ROSS, blacksmith, Cambusnethan, aged 53 years, married.
Parents - William Ross & Joan Hogg.
Interred in D432 on 20th November 1890.

If you live locally, go to the cemetery during working hours, (better mid-afternoon) and ask for Ian the superintendent, he will check the Lair book to find the 1955 burial and, if you ask him nicely, he will show you the actual grave, hopefully it will have a headstone.

Regards,

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Friday 08 January 16 21:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Lodger, thank you so much and I'm so glad that I asked! I can add more to Mary Ann's mother in law now 😃😃😃 arggghhhh now I have to plan a trip up to Scotland as I'm not local I live down in West Wales! But will definitely visit the area and see who's there altogether and also ask for Ian. Keeping my fingers crossed that there is a headstone there
Thanks very much
Ster 👌🏼
 
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Friday 08 January 16 21:59 GMT (UK)
Could I be a nuisance and ask about whether Robert & Isabella Moffat (got nothing on these currently doing a search for these 2) and William (DOB 13/04/1814 Haddington) & Joan Ross (DOB 18/07/1815 Tranent) are buried in the same cemetery? I much appreciate the effort
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 09 January 16 12:24 GMT (UK)
Hello again 27Ster13,

I see Mary Ann was born in Lasswade, not Glasgow as you stated. Her parents were married at Lasswade on 2nd June 1868. I found this on Ancestry, there is a lot of information about the Veitch and Ross families as several people have submitted trees. There is a strong link to Wales, so perhaps someone else in your family has been doing some research. whoever it is, they are a descendant of Elizabeth L.W. Ross, (1909 - 1981) daughter of William and Mary Ann.
She married Gwyn V Thomas (1907 - 1977) and they had 9 children. most of this tree is "private" and I could only see the deceased members, so of their 9 children, one daughter was married to Martin Poole James who died in 2013 and another daughter was married to Eifion Gwyn Williams (1932 - 1985). There was a daughter Dorothy born 1936, died at Glamorgan 2010 and another daughter, Agnes born in Wishaw 1930, died at Law village (between Wishaw & Carluke) in 1953.

William Ross married Joan Hogg 12th January 1835 at Tranent, East Lothian (called Haddingtonshire back then) William's parents were James Ross & Agnes Stokes. William was born at Tranent 13th April 1814 and died at Haddington on 8th April 1889.
Joan's parents were William Hogg & Euphemia Brown. Joan was born at Ormiston, East Lothian 18th July 1815 and died at Ormiston 2nd June 1904.


hope you can make sense of all this.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Saturday 09 January 16 18:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Lodger very interesting! Eifion Gwyn Williams is my grandfather so quickly signed up to ancestry lol..
So been very busy researching Mary Moffat/Ross and her parents!

I have
Isabella Prentice/Moffat (no record of her marriage to Moffat) 82 years old
Born 9th March 1805 Wishaw, Lanark Died 20th July 1887 at Cambusnethan Wishaw.

Robert Moffat 35 years old
Born 5th April 1803 in Lanark, Glasgow Died 1838 at Cambusnethan Wishaw.

Is there a chance they are buried in Cambusnethan Cemetery too?

I would be grateful for any effort
Thanks Ster


Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 09 January 16 20:05 GMT (UK)
27Ster13.

You're in luck!

In the old churchyard of Cambusnethan, in a plot owned (in the early 19th century) by Robert Moffat and Margaret Downie.
In the north lair -
ISABELLA MOFFAT, aged 78 years. Interred on 27th July 1887.
The register for the old churchyard only begins in the mid-1870s, so there is no way of knowing who else is in that grave (unless you find a death registered between 1855 and 1859 where it is stated on the death certificate).

BUT - there is a headstone and I have a picture of it.





Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 09 January 16 20:13 GMT (UK)
The picture is big but you can scroll along the bar at the bottom.

I think that "your" Robert is buried with his parents and the Robert who died in 1836 aged 68 must be his father.

Here are 2 of his siblings -

MARGARET PATERSON, housewife, Motherwell Poorhouse, aged 74 years, married.
Parents - Robert Moffat & Margaret Downie.
Buried in the old churchyard on 25th March 1873.

WILLIAM MOFFAT, labourer, Waterloo, aged 69 years, married.
Parents - Robert Moffat & Margaret Downie.

Also, 2 children of Margaret Paterson -

PETER PATERSON, clay potter, Wishaw, aged 36 years, married.
Parents - James Paterson & Margaret Moffat.
Old churchyard on 12th October 1872.

JANE BAILLIE, housewife, Wishaw, aged 25 years, married.
Parents - James Paterson & Margaret Moffat.
OLd churchyard on 13th February 1867.

Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Saturday 09 January 16 20:35 GMT (UK)
Blimey I'm in awe thank you very much for sharing that photo and info with me! Had a lot more from you that any of the sites I've been on today lol
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 09 January 16 21:39 GMT (UK)
You're very welcome, good luck with the rest of your research.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Saturday 09 January 16 22:37 GMT (UK)

WILLIAM MOFFAT, labourer, Waterloo, aged 69 years, married.
Parents - Robert Moffat & Margaret Downie.


You mention a William Moffat do you have any dates on him? Also the Moffat's are confusing  ??? lol I think it's the son of Robert Moffat who is also called Robert lol  ;D only because Robert Moffat snr's parents are James Moffet and Margaret Jack..
Like I said confusing lol thanks for any help
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Saturday 09 January 16 23:50 GMT (UK)
Ha! You found my deliberate mistake   :P

William was buried in the old churchyard on 22nd February 1879.

I spent some time trawling the Plot Book trying to find which plot exactly he was in but no luck.
His name may have been miss-transcribed or he may have been put into common ground there but that's a big maybe. I'll check again.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 10 January 16 00:52 GMT (UK)
I took my information about this William from the gravediggers Day Book (a sort of daily diary of burials).
However, after a detailed search of the old churchyard Plot Book and a valiant attempt at tying up the relevant plots with the information in the Day Book and the Monumental Inscription book, it seems that "William" was entered under that name in the Day Book but, in the Plot Book he is entered as Robert! 
In the Plot Book for this grave there are 5 interments (bearing in mind that no book existed as far as anyone knows, before about 1876) and, according to the book, the owner (post-1870s) was given as John Gilmour. All of the 5 surnames are Moffat. And, what's more, there is a small marker stone at this grave with an inscription - "John Dounie 1782". Dounie = Downie of course and this would just be a little stone to mark his property, a common thing in those days, it stopped strangers taking over the plot. This is excellent proof that the Downies lived in the parish as far back as 230 years ago. It would be relatively safe to now say that Margaret downie's father was John.
The 5 buried there, all surnames Moffat, are -

In the south lair -
ROBERT, aged 5 years. 30th June 1883.
AGNES, aged 3 years. 16th June 1883.
ELIZABETH, aged 11 years. 27th January 1883.
In the centre lair -
BETSY, aged 81 years. 22nd April 1895.
ROBERT, aged 69 years. 22nd February 1879.

I don't know who the Gilmour is, he may have been a Moffat son-in-law.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 10 January 16 01:21 GMT (UK)
I should be in bed by now, not that I need my beauty sleep  ;D

Extracts from the baptism records for Wishaw Relief congregation Church. These records begin at 1831 and end at 1864.

ELIZABETH, 4th child of Robert Moffat, weaver, Beltanefoot (an area of Wishaw) and Isa Prentice.
Born 18th April 1832, baptised 13th May 1832.

JAMES, 5th child of Robert Moffat, weaver, Beltanefoot and Isabella Prentice.
Born 18th December 1833, baptised 29th December 1833.

JOHN, 6th child of Robert Moffat, weaver, Mid Wishaw and Isabella Prentice.
Born 20th March 1835, baptised 5th April 1835.

AGNES, 7th child of Robert Moffat, weaver, Mid Wishaw and Isabella Prentice.
Born 5th February 1837, baptised 5th March 1837.

MARY, 8th child of Robert Moffat, weaver, Mid Wishaw and Isabella Prentice.
Born 10th April 1839, baptised 21st April 1839.

MARY, 8th child of James Paterson, shoemaker, Low Wishaw and Margaret Moffat.
Born 9th June 1833, baptised 16th June 1833.

All were baptised by Rev Peter Brown, for his photograph see the post before your initial one.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 10 January 16 09:04 GMT (UK)
I'll keep on looking, you never know what else may turn up.

Lodger
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Skoosh on Sunday 10 January 16 11:08 GMT (UK)
Folks,  we're inclined to forget how common wooden markers would have been in kirkyards, where there was the means these were eventually replaced with stone, otherwise they perished.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 10 January 16 12:25 GMT (UK)
In the Heritors Minutes for New Monkland May 11th 1778 (HR 779/1) the following statement appears – "The committee empowers the Beadle (sexton) at sight of two of their numbers to through (sic) out stones or lairs which have been wrongfully taken up by strangers not parish men, which have not formerly had burial places in the parish".  So the sexton was to get permission from any 2 of the Heritors before clearing out stones (and presumably the contents of the lairs) of strangers.  At their meeting on 15th January 1795 the New Monkland Heritors are “laying a certain sum on the persons who wish to have permanent burial places or who have grave stones in the churchyard of East Monkland, or may put grave stones theron in the time coming”.  So it looks as though burial spots may not have been permanent for the ordinary folk before about 1790, unless they purchased a plot, as is the norm today.

In the Cambusnethan Session minutes for about the same time there is a description of the charges levied for erecting gravestones, I don’t recall any mention of wooden markers. Wood, in this climate, as Skoosh says, would never last very long anyway. Also in the Cam’nethan minutes is a long, drawn-out dispute over 2 adjoining lairs, (I seem to recall that one belonged to the parish schoolmaster) it was about someone’s headstone infringing onto the other’s property. I may have this written down somewhere, I’ll have a look. 
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Sunday 10 January 16 20:37 GMT (UK)
Lodger thank you for all the information you found for me!

Am inclined to think that Robert is William's Sunday name.....certainly that thread has carried through all of my family even the Welsh side lol

Wow how interesting, Would love to see this description of charges for erecting headstones

So now I'm wondering if there's a map of Cambusnethan church/churchyard and where would one go to get one? I would be very interested to see one plus can't wait to come and visit in person lol
😆Ster

Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 10 January 16 21:17 GMT (UK)
There is no map I'm afraid but I can usually find the stones if necessary. Or, where they once were before the vandals and the council began moving them!
If you ever plan a visit let me know, I would be happy to meet you there.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Sunday 10 January 16 21:32 GMT (UK)
Shame really and thank you for the offer! I will certainly get in the touch with you when I'm there...😄
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Monday 11 January 16 11:48 GMT (UK)
Lodger did you by any chance photograph this "John Downie" marker?
I don't know if this is the right Moffat in my family tree?!
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Monday 11 January 16 13:09 GMT (UK)
I don't have a photograph, sorry. All it says is "John Dounie 1782". No other inscription. I think the combination of Downie & Moffat must make it the same tree, just keep on digging!
If the weather picks up and I have the time, I'll take my camera and look for this stone.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Monday 11 January 16 23:15 GMT (UK)
Thanks Lodger! A silly question if I was looking at google maps at Cambusnethan church is the cemetery on Greenhead Road or Coronation Street? Cos it's not very far from where my g-g-grandfather lived
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Monday 11 January 16 23:37 GMT (UK)
The old ruined church and churchyard is at the corner of Kirk Road and Greenhead Road. The newer cemetery is very large and the entrance is at the little mini-roundabout at the top of Kirk Road, opposite Thrashbush Road, at the side of Cambusnethan North Church.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Monday 11 January 16 23:47 GMT (UK)
Brilliant thank you! You're an absolute star
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: 27Ster13 on Thursday 14 January 16 13:31 GMT (UK)
In the old churchyard of Cambusnethan, in a plot owned (in the early 19th century) by Robert Moffat and Margaret Downie.
In the north lair -
ISABELLA MOFFAT, aged 78 years. Interred on 27th July 1887.
The register for the old churchyard only begins in the mid-1870s, so there is no way of knowing who else is in that grave (unless you find a death registered between 1855 and 1859 where it is stated on the death certificate).

Just to be a pain  :o but do you have any information with Isabella Moffat like who was her parents? I just need confirmation really found 3 births all with different mothers lol
Ever so grateful
Ster ;D
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 14 January 16 16:56 GMT (UK)
Sorry, the information was taken from the Plot Owners book, which doesn't record parents names. The Day Book, which does record parents names, hasn't survived for the old churchyard between 1861 and 1907.
You would have to check her death certificate on Scotlandspeople.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sancti on Sunday 13 August 17 18:28 BST (UK)
Lodger, Any records for a Patrick Wilson who died 21 December 1880

Father Thomas Wilson and mother Alice Convoy?
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sage on Saturday 19 August 17 01:31 BST (UK)
Hi Sancti,

It appears that our friend Lodger is off sunning himself on the Costa del Sol (even though he would have us all believe he's working  ;D) so I have some Cambusnethan records from way back and can help you out with this one.

PATRICK WILSON, occupation Screeman, resident Newmains, aged 19 yrs and single was interred in Common Ground 23 Dec 1880...parents Thos Wilson and Alice Convoy.

also buried in Common Ground for the same parents...

BRIDGET WILSON, aged 11 mths, resident Newmains buried 6 Nov 1872

JOSEPH WILSON, aged 2 yrs, resident Newmains buried 19 May 1886

Regards, Sage
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sancti on Saturday 19 August 17 08:11 BST (UK)
Fantastic Sage

Thank you

Edit

Death date for Joseph was 18 May 1880
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Skoosh on Saturday 19 August 17 10:08 BST (UK)
Guys, is this scree-man a screen-man, working at the coal screens?

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: sancti on Saturday 19 August 17 10:12 BST (UK)
Scree - an arrangement of parallel bars arranged on a slope over which coal is passed at a pithead to remove dross,

scree-man - the worker in charge of the riddling of the coal at a pit-head

http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/3.html
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Skoosh on Saturday 19 August 17 10:14 BST (UK)
Even Saturday's a school day!  ;D

Skoosh
Title: Re: Cambusnethan Cemetery Grave Search - Part 2
Post by: Todds9 on Monday 04 December 17 16:16 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone,

First time poster! But i'm hoping someone might be able to help me track down some family records relating to the Todds in the Cambusnethan/Wishaw area.

I'm after any information on Thomas Todd possibly born around 1790/1971. The 1841 census show's him age 50 living with wife Margaret (or Mary) Todd nee Baird and children Mary, Margaret, Thomas, John and William Todd. His occupation was a 'surfaceman' which I think is related to the Railway although an earlier records show him to be a farm servant/agricultural labourer at Glenochar (?).

On Dec 30th 1842 they had a further son David Todd who I'm also hopeful of finding burial records for. He was a Railway Porter/Pointsman and lived in Railway Station House, Wishaw (or Wishaw Station House) with his wife Elizabeth Todd nee Hastie. He died there aged just 35 on November 19 1879. Any information on Elizabeth too would be great.

Thanks in advance!!  :)