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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Bethgem on Wednesday 16 November 11 22:58 GMT (UK)
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This is bothering me, and I did not know where to post about it.
After my death I know our son, and my husband if he survives me, will not want to keep the records of my Family History. I would like to leave instructions as to what is to be done with it. Is there a place where the whole lot can be sent, and if these records would be of any use to anyone?
My family have said that they would not be interested as they have seen it and they know what is there and would not like to keep it forever. I wonder now if other people have had to make this decision and what can be done. I hope there is help available on this and that someone on here can advise me.
Cheers for now,
Bethgem
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A lady I once knew had specified in her Will that her family History research be left to the Society of Genealogists.
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Hi,
From my own point of view, I would be inclined to leave them with your local archive, or the one that is most appropriate geographically speaking.
I am always so grateful for the other stuff in the archive that has helped me with my research, that I feel it would be good to put something back in!
Hope that helps,
Copperbeech5
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I was told at one of the local archive open days a couple of years back that they do not accept all family tree material. They are only interested in things like photos, diaries, letters and significant items. They would also not accept BMD certificates on the basis that certificates can be bought from elsewhere. They cited space reasons.
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Hi CF,
Ooh, dear, I better have a re think then!
Kind regards,
Copperbeech5
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It was a couple of years ago and it may just have been that records office. Wait till you get a few more replies from around the country on this thread and you may get a more positive picture. I wasn't trying to be a prophet of doom- honest. And anyway, I take it you are not planning on going anywhere yet are you ;D
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If no other repository can be found, organise a safe deposit box at the bank. Make it a codicil in your Will, that the box has to be kept in perpetuity for that upcoming family historian who hasn't yet become obvious :)
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How about writing a small booklet about the family linked together with the social history of the area. I know our library has booklets or even books like that written by locals that talk about the past and have the family running through them inaddition to the housing, the industry, the local characters and the leisure industry (pubs and clubs), . The library stocks them for others to borrow, so that would be a way to get the library to stock them (assuming there are still libraries in the future).
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I would suggest your local library (or one local to your ancestry), or even a local FH society.
When you look at it, this is the same as looking for old family photos, and finding them with different relatives, instead of your immediate family (if at all).
Darren
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That is an interesting thought though, one that has crossed my mind on more than one occasion. As much as my wife and son take an interest (albeit at times a glazed one), I'm not sure they would be willing to keep and store the myriad documents, photos, papers, letters that I have accumulated in 31 years (on and off).
Darren
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The obvious answer is to write to the various archives, libraries, organisations etc. and see if they would be willing to accept your material.
Try the Society of Genealogists, local Family History Society, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in addition to the local archive(s) relevant to your research.
You may find that none of the above are willing to accept your material or you may find that all or some are willing to accept it.
The main thing is organise it first before writing (changing) your will.
Cheers
Guy
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Hi there Darren,
Notice you are Australian based. The Mitchell Library in Sydney has been known to have an 'open door' policy on anything to do with Australia, not just Sydney, not just NSW. There are many many 'family papers' lodged with The Mitchell, you can specify when these folders can be opened (some are sealed by the benefactor for say 'not to be opened for 50 years after my death', while others are freely available for researchers. I am aware of 'private family papers' from the 'lowliest' to the 'leading lights' to have been lodged there. I am not sure of the current arrangements, but it has been my understanding that The Mitchell has not turned any donation of private family papers away. Their curators may have sensible suggestions of the types of papers to include or to cull out, but originals of bdm certificates abound in many of the folders in their holdings.
I am not sure if this helps Bethgem, but hope the concept does.
Cheers, JM
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Thanks JM,
That is another option to consider. I had thought of our local library, which has an excellent family & local history section. Also, as much as I have had beefs with them, I have considered our SAGHS here in SA.
Firstly though, I will have to sit down and have a serious discussion with my family, immediate and extended, and see if there is anyone to pass "the torch" onto, even if only a custodial sense.
Possibly the best option is if someone is interested/willing, I will leave them the options we have discussed.
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The archives may have rethought what they said originally. I would probably be more inclined to go to the local family history society. The one i'm a member of actively acts for stuff. Photos get displayed on open days and they take orders and charge a small fee for copies. They also sent me a copy of a family tree when i first joined, unfortunately it was a different branch. 3 separate areas of the surname, we knew of a marriage between 2 branches and i've found a link between one of my other lines with the one sent. Your family history may provide some links for others. Would n't we all like to be in receipt of that suitcase full of stuff found recently!
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My local FHS cannot take files etc - for reasons of storage space - but will take trees on CD-ROM.
My local archive - recently extended - has miles of unused shelf space at present, so I'm hoping when the time comes that all my papers will go there, and a CD-ROM to the FHS, with a note to say where the original papers are...
So it's going to be worth exploring all the oprions
Cati
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Hello everyone,
Many thanks for all your suggestions. I had hoped that there would be a general place to send everything rather than to sort it out and send bits to different, but relevant, areas.
My areas in the UK are Manchester, Congleton and Buxton, basically in the middle of England. Old photographs are the main item. A few original copies of BMD certificates but mainly photocopies of them. A record though, just the same.
I also have some original old newspaper clippings. The publisher has already told me they would not be able to store them so they could go to the history society in that area. The other things I have would have to be offered in another area.
In all, they should be interesting as a story of a family in "olden times" as it were. I am certainly not going to throw them in the bin! I will keep looking for the best way to dispose of them all. And using a CD-ROM is a good idea.
Thank you all again for your help and advice. I'm sure this thread will be useful to folks.
Bethgem
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A thought has just struck me - what about a university? Some of them have extensive holding of various materials and might be happy to take your papers if there is a reasonably local connection, or if they have collections of materials relating to a specific trade.
Cati
You never know - you might be immortalised as 'The Bethgem Collection' .... ;D
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;D Yes cati, I can just see that! 'The Bethgem Collection';D
You have a good idea there, which had not occurred to me, to take them to a university. All these ideas will be listed in my last instructions for my family to take heed.
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You don't have to wait until someone deals with your will. Follow up the possibilities now and lodge your research somewhere suitable, keeping the option to update it for them as you gather new information.
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I think in perpetuity at the Bank is the best option so far, though I don't know this to have happened (yet0 I imagine it is possible for a local FHS or even the SoG to become dufunct.
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I think in perpetuity at the Bank is the best option so far, though I don't know this to have happened (yet) I imagine it is possible for a local FHS or even the SoG to become dufunct.
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Except that it would cost money to do so and as soon as the money stopped the bank would dump the research.
Cheers
Guy
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The Congleton Chronicle has a regular feature of 100 years ago, 50 years ago, etc and also asks people to send in photos from Congleton's past. You can find them on the web.There is also a museum in Congleton and the Cheshire Family History Society is about to move its library from Alderley Edge to Mobberley. If you contact one or all of those you may find someone wishing to take the Congleton records at least. Even if not a member, you could contact other family history societies and ask them to publicise the names of the families on which you have information. You might find someone who wants to take up your research, best wishes, claytonbradley
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The good advice keeps coming in! Cheers folks.
I expect the banks to charge for its services, and so the event of the money running out or stopping is a danger as they would probably dispose of the items, as you say. Not unless it is policy to write to the relatives to remind them of payments - but then people move away and then that's that.
Lodging my research somewhere suitable while I am still around seems to be the best option. No more thinking about it then. All family members would be told about it so it would be up to them if they want to take a look.
It would be good to keep it all together though, so finding the place where these items can be stored, and for free, is like looking for a needle in a haystack! So then, there is no central, general place to send them all to, it would seem. Maybe one day there will be. I'm still wondering how this problem is met by other researchers.
As I was typing, a post from clayton bradley came in. The news about the Congleton Chronicle is very interesting. In the past they said they could not help me in my research to find a photograph which they had shown in their feature about old times in Congleton. I wonder if they will help now? I'll have to find out.
Bethgem
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Possibly a family solicitor would preserve them at a very minimal or even free charge?
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If you leave them in a safe deposit box at a bank or with a solicitor, they aren't likely to benefit anyone other than immediate family and if the family aren't intersted would just gather dust. Additionally, as you mention multiple areas it's unlikely that one FHS would be that interested and libraries are known to have clear outs every so often so it could go that way. It would also be worth noting that some academic libraries are rather reluctant to allow access to non-students (as per my own experience) so it wouldn't benefit the ordinary researcher that much in such institutions however grand it may sound. ::)
The SOG have about as much chance as anyone at surviving, and probably more so than an FHS. And yes they do charge non-members to access resources, but at least it would be known as your collection in there. ;) At least there you know it would benefit people in their research whatever the area and I know that some resources are being made available to members online if they donor agrees so it would perhaps be a fitting legacy.
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Thanks for that info, smudwhisk. That's what I would like, actually, to have other researchers to be allowed to see my documents and photos, if interested. So then, the SOG it could be, but who are they? Sorry if that is a daft question. Perhaps I have just forgotten, but as a guess are they Society Of Genealogists? I am probably showing up my ignorance now, but I really cannot remember. Sorry folks :-[
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Thanks for that info, smudwhisk. That's what I would like, actually, to have other researchers to be allowed to see my documents and photos, if interested. So then, the SOG it could be, but who are they? Sorry if that is a daft question. Perhaps I have just forgotten, but as a guess are they Society Of Genealogists? I am probably showing up my ignorance now, but I really cannot remember. Sorry folks :-[
Yes indeed they are :)
http://www.sog.org.uk/index.shtml
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Thanks! It was just a guess of mine, really. I have not been to their site in all of my searches. Is that a record?! No pun intended, of course.
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Yes, on reflection they are perhaps the cheapest option unlikely to go broke. Their information is extensive, and I find their fees for research as a non member to be reasonable.They also host the Guild of One Name Studies (GOONS)
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Yes, on reflection they are perhaps the cheapest option unlikely to go broke. Their information is extensive, and I find their fees for research as a non member to be reasonable.They also host the Guild of One Name Studies (GOONS)
Neddie and Gryppe-Pipe Thin, or Eccles and Bluebottle as well?
;D
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Possibly a family solicitor would preserve them at a very minimal or even free charge?
I have never seen free and solicitor together before ;) ;) ;D
On a serious note though I doubt solicitors have much free space in their own archives and wouldn't be able to take in extra paper work on top of files they legally have to keep.
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Most probably that is the case, Lemontree. ;)
Redroger, that Guild of One Name Studies, is it really? I wonder if they are ragged a lot about it! "GOON, But Not Forgotten". ;D
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Redroger, that Guild of One Name Studies, is it really? I wonder if they are ragged a lot about it! "GOON, But Not Forgotten". ;D
On that issue, at a FH Fair I once asked the person on the GOONS stall if they one name studies for any of the surnames mentioned plus Sellars, She replied no Sellars, but the rest she gave me a blank look. I tried to explain realised she had never heard of the GOONSHOW, and gave up in despair. Decided the FH GOONS have no sense of humour.
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But are they the right age to have heard of the goons ? It was before my time.
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She was either my age (now 71) older or had led a very hectic life. Maybe the problem was a lack of radio reception in the 1950s.
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Maybe the problem was a lack of radio reception in the 1950s.
She couldn't get the wood, you know....
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Maybe the problem was a lack of radio reception in the 1950s.
She couldn't get the wood, you know....
Maybe she didn't light the beacon! According to the ONS website there were no Cruns listed in 2002, however there were seven names with Crun as a first syllable, giving a total of several thousand Cruns, and 9986 Bannisters.
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Whilst I do understand that your family aren't keen on keeping the history research, whilst reading this thread I was just imagining being a descendant of yours and discovering that the mysterious trunk handed down through the generations contained all this fascinating historical information :D :D :D
Oh gosh, if one of my ancestors had somehow done the same!
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Whilst I do understand that your family aren't keen on keeping the history research, whilst reading this thread I was just imagining being a descendant of yours and discovering that the mysterious trunk handed down through the generations contained all this fascinating historical information :D :D :D
Problem would be whether they realised the importance of it when they came across it or just dumped it in a dustbin. When my grandmother and her sister were clearing out their father's house in 1972 my grandmother retrieved from a dustbin an old photo album from the 1880s which my Great Aunt had thrown out. However, if my Great Aunt had known Nan had this in the late 1990s when we first started researching and my Great Aunt was very interested, she would have been furious even though it was her that through it out because she would have wanted it. ::) The problem these days is that people don't always realise what they are throwing out when they clear out a relatives property, often in a hurry, or get "a little man with a van" (to quote my Uncle who wanted to do this when my grandmother died) to clear it out for them. In those circumstances the items would either be binned or possibly end up split up on ebay should there be any documents/old photos worth trying to sell. Personally, I'd rather the research went to somewhere which you know would hold on to it and make it available. Just had an tavern clock drawn to our attention for sale on a website which was made by an ancestor in the mid-1700s. Apparently it had been donated to Sudbury Museum some years ago but they have obviously decided to sell it. If it wasn't almost £14k, we would have been tempted to try and purchase it. Sadly too expensive but it's annoying when items are donated but the organisations decide to sell them on anyway.
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Oh yes, Smudwhisk I do understand. You are quite right, consign the research to the proper place and keep your fingers crossed they look after it with due respect.
I was just off in fantasyland, up in our loft, discovering a mysterious box in which......
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I encountered the same thing, Smudwhisk, when researching one branch of my wife's family. One of her ancestors was a clockmaker in the 1600's, and through a collector, discovered that this ancestor's clocks sold in the range of 9 to 10,000 pounds. That is just a LITTLE out of our price range!
But, like you, I was fascinated with the thought of something that old being made by an ancestor.
Darren
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If people didn't throw things away then fewer items would gain a scarcity value. One of my relatives was publisher and engraver John Luffman who made many map engravings (not always very good ones) in the early 19th century. The facts that he was a prolific engraver and that some of his work wasn't toip quality mean that prices start at around £20. Problem is I still haven't found one though.
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There are a number of John Luffman maps available for sale on the internet, though I do not know if they are the correct ones.
Try a google for "John Luffman" maps.
An example is-
http://library.mcmaster.ca/maps/images/raremaps/107129.jpg
Cheers
Guy
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can you bundle the family research with another possession of significant value (property, family jewelry or something else) so that the person inheriting the item can only accept it if they take on the task of preserving and handing down the research in perpetuity too?
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That would be good, mc8.
I have been thinking about how to dispose of my FH records for ages and have finally begun to enquire what to do, and all suggestions on here are helpful. Thank you, every one of you.
I had thought to leave them for reference purposes, and I still might do that, but maybe I'll consider mc8's idea. Cheers!
Bethgem
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can you bundle the family research with another possession of significant value (property, family jewelry or something else) so that the person inheriting the item can only accept it if they take on the task of preserving and handing down the research in perpetuity too?
Sorry to be a little cynical, but what is there to stop someone disposing of them later on anyway? ??? Once the estate is finalised, apart from other members of the family who may not be interested, who is going to confirm it is held in perpetuity?
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Family History is a hobby, it doesn't have to be forced upon another family member or an archive, it can go to the grave with you - literally if you want ;)
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Family History is a hobby, it doesn't have to be forced upon another family member or an archive, it can go to the grave with you - literally if you want ;)
;D
I found that very humorous. Still laughing...
Quite right though, no need to foist it on to anyone.
The jury is still out. Shall I leave it with my valuables, or shall I leave it with the SOG?
I really must contact them and get their point of view.
:)
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Probably the best suggestion outside of willing family members is the SOG.
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Probably. I'm on the case, today.
:)
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Thanks Guy, Another problem with the John Luffman maps etc. is that most of them seem to be in the USA. I want to see what I'm buying first hand, perhaps the Family History guys in America have cornered the supply of these engravings? :(
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Bethgem, let us know what the SOG have to say. I am sure there will be a lot of Rootschatters out there for whom the information might be relevant.
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An Update. I heard back from the SoG. They sent me an email with a link to their website regarding the depositing of family history records. This is the link:
http://www.sog.org.uk/leaflets/depositresearch.pdf
It came from Tim Lawrence, Head of Library Services. He mentioned that the section on computer based research is somewhat out of date and he apologises. This is all I have in this update. Btw, when I first looked on the SoG website I did not see a link to this, at that time.
As for my family records, they are not tidy enough to send to them yet. I also have to research more on my father's side. I have only got my mother's side all done but it still needs to be in a presentable state, as explained in the pdf link.
All the best,
Bethgem
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Thanks Bethgem. That's very interesting reading. The only caveat I have is the issue of copyright. Does that mean people in the future have to ask permission to use any or all of your research that has been deposited? I don't why, but alarm bells rang when I read that bit.
Darren
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The way it is written means the SOG would own everything you leave when you die and can do whatever they like with it with no restrictions.
It is a totally onerous codicil which I would be very reluctant to sign.
Cheers
Guy
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Thanks Guy. I am glad I wasn't just having a conspiracy theory moment. I was thinking along those lines myself.
Darren
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Thanks, Darren and Guy. That confirms my own suspicions about this. I did think that it would be ok at first when I read it, and even thought about how I was going to send a tidied up version of my research, but then it got to me later as some of the words went round in my head. Ah well, that's it then. Nowhere to store it. May as well mark it all as no longer required. But then, someone in our family just might look at it all, the once, before they decide what to do with it.
It still poses a question: what do people do with all theirs and where does it all end up? There has been a deeper and more interest in family history since the televised programme WDYTYA on BBCtv that there must be a need for a place to deposit them without strings attached.
Bethgem
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I hadn't really given it much thought before your thread, Bethgem. I suppose I had a vague notion in the back of my mind that if not my son someone in the family would at least take it all, if not continue it.
It does give food for thought.
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Food for thought, indeed. Maybe one day a website will appear that offers everything needed for this, but beware, there are sharks in the website business. We wouldn't want any trouble. Best I/we forget the whole idea!
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Hi Bethgem
Came a little late to this discussion.
Have you thought of scanning it all and putting it on the web on your own family site? You could then put a sum of money into trust to ensure that the website is maintained???
I am sure some body could do this?
The originals you could then pass on with instructions.
I know how you feel though - my Mother threw out my Grans papers when she died - and I have only just managed to extract what is left of my Dads war documents - she is in the process of clearing out - and unfortunately has already destroyed so much (Including giving away an Edwardian wedding dess belonging to my great aunt to some stranger she met at church - Thanks Mum!!!!) :'(
Hope you reach a conclusion
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That is all very interesting stuff. I will read the pdf again, soon, to check it over. Maybe it could do with being updated. It was mentioned in that email they sent me that the section on computer based research is somewhat out of date. In the meantime, thanks for the information and comments. It all helps.
Bethgem
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A brief intervention. After reading that information I shall certainly not be leaving my writings on deposit to the SoG. It is of course our right to dispose of them as we think fit. Forty years ago, today, as a matter of fact, my brother and I together with our mother were going through Dad's very large trunk of diaries, he had been a railway driver, and had meticulously kept a complete diary of every day since he joined the GNR in March 1919. I asked Mum what I was to do with them, she said simply destroy them, so I did exactly as I was told, except for a very few items relating to future probate. I have since regretted it, but of course orders are and always will be orders.However, when I retired from being a councillor, I first had my papers professionally weeded by the relevant local government departments, to remove any personal references, and then deposited them in the local archive. Someone might want to read them sometime.
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Forty years ago, today, as a matter of fact, my brother and I together with our mother were going through Dad's very large trunk of diaries, he had been a railway driver, and had meticulously kept a complete diary of every day since he joined the GNR in March 1919. I asked Mum what I was to do with them, she said simply destroy them, so I did exactly as I was told,
what a shame. I can understand the dilemma though-clearly the records meant a lot to him but it wasn't valued by the next of kin. There would have been several archives who would have been delighted to preserve rare personal and details reflections of daily life on the railways.
A few years ago I was talking with a work colleague who had been left hand illustrated war diaries, photos and memorabilia of an ancestor who was a pow in Singapore. They were not remotely interested in them, didn't think they were were worth keeping for their children and had no idea what to do other than chuck them in the bin. By chance, a friend prompted them to write to Raffles Hotel to see if they would be interested in the material. Not only was the archivist there desperate to get the stuff, the hotel paid business class flights and let them stay all expenses paid in the presidential suite for a week by way of thankyou
so-I guess the moral of the story is, just because the immediate relatives fail to appreciate the importance or value of the records,don't give up-future generations may relish it or external parties may understand the rare opportunity to build a rich picture of the past.
could the material possibly be held in trust until the next generation can appreciate it?
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If no other repository can be found, organise a safe deposit box at the bank. Make it a codicil in your Will, that the box has to be kept in perpetuity for that upcoming family historian who hasn't yet become obvious :)
I agree 100%.
I now wish I had of asked my late grandmother all the details of her family, it would have saved me 100 of hours researching it now.
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Dad never talked of his experiences in WW1, now I have a copy of his regimental history in which he had annotated in pencil an action in which I believe he was involved, the war diary doesn't give name other than those of officers, and a photo which seems relevant has probably been lost, so it is unlikely I shall never know for certain.
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If no other repository can be found, organise a safe deposit box at the bank. Make it a codicil in your Will, that the box has to be kept in perpetuity for that upcoming family historian who hasn't yet become obvious :)
I agree 100%.
I now wish I had of asked my late grandmother all the details of her family, it would have saved me 100 of hours researching it now.
Yes, I agree too, it is a good way to do it. I am keeping the options open.
The stories coming from those here who had stuff lost, by reasons back then thought best at the time, must be heartbreaking now knowing that such evidence would be so valuable.
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This thread has been edited to remove personal and argumentative comments. Please keep to the topic.
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I am thinking of paying a professional genealogist to complete my Family History record, and then it will be prepared ready to view and to store. I have the funds available so that is not an issue to worry about, although I am keen not to be fleeced.
I would like to hear if anyone has done this and how it turned out. Of course, no company names will be mentioned. I look forward to any replies.
Bethgem
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This thread has been edited to remove personal and argumentative comments. Please keep to the topic.
Just to say thank you, Editor. It is good to be back.
I will be looking into various options as to where to leave my FH records. One of them will be with the historians in the place where my grandparents lived, which was Congleton, Cheshire. I have to find out if they are interested, first.
Many thanks for all the suggestions made on this topic, which I had started here to find out what is available out there. I will also be researching more on my Father's side.
Bethgem
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Hi Bethgem
Before spending money on a Professional Genealogist I would talk to an archivist and get advice on the preservation of FH Records, even if the archivist isn't interested in yours and if possible have a look at examples, even visit the SOG. You can at least compare your research to others and get an idea of what needs to be done.
I would also consider self publishing your research. You could then donate a copy to various libraries and record offices that your research covers, you could also give various family members copies. If your family is not interested in your research, spend their inheritance.
Andy
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As some parts of this thread have had to be removed because of inappropriate comments the moderating team have decided that the best course of action is to lock it.
Apologies to Bethgem for having to do this to her thread, but since some members do not seem to be able to restrain themselves and act courteously, as required, this is our only recourse. If anyone wishes to offer Bethgem serious advice, then please can they contact her by personal message?