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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: rovert on Monday 21 November 11 16:31 GMT (UK)
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Phylis May Schwarz was born 1892 in Paddington. on the 1901 census she is living with her mother Emma, mis spelt as Schwary, brother James Arthur born 1883, and two sisters, and Grandmother Ann Maddocks. Dad not listed but Emma,s status is married. when Phylis married in 1891 she claims her father is James Arthur: deceased. James Arthur was baptised in Paddington 1883 and his parents were Henry Civil and Emma Schwarz. the two sisters have the same father on their baptism and marriage records.
Emma Maddocks married Henry Cecil Schwarz in Kensington 1883, I have looked for this marriage on ancestry but it has revealed nothing. I can,t find Henry Cecil Schwarz anywhere on the census records.
Please help me someone I am obviously missing something.
Thankyou
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Sorry Phylis May married in 1908.
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Hi,
Sorry I'm a little confused as you say the sisters gave the same details .. Daisy Ruby married in 1916 and she gave her father as Harry Cecil Schwarz a commercial traveller; James Arthur Schwarz was one of the witnesses.
Did James marry a Mabel Taylor as this person gave his father as Henry Schwarz - a traveller deceased?
Junev
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thankyou for your reply.
Yes james Arthur did marry Mabel helen Tailor, in an earlier census and on work records he also uses the name Arthur Scharz.
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Hi
1891
RG12 piece 2907 folio 5 page 3 Henry Schwary age 55 born Germany married (no wife with him), lodger Liverpool occupation commercial traveller
Junev
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Hi,
I think the marriages available on Ancestry are from parish registers so if the marriage was in a Register Office or Synagaogue it will not be there.
There is a Henry C Schwarz (age 32 b Germany) on 1871 census living with the Irmscher family, St Giles, London.
RG 10 350 45 2
Nanny Jan
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Thankyou both so very much, i will take a look at both entries.
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I have now received the marriage cert of Henry Cecil Schwarz and Emma Maddocks. 8th may 1883, St Stephens church, St Stephens Paddington.
Henry is actually Henry Cecil Rosemont Schwarz age 24yrs occupation agent. father James Schwarz occ Banker.
Any sighting.s of Henry or any info at all would be very much appreciated
Thankyou very much
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Hi
Baptisms
18th February 1883 St Stephen Paddington born 4th January 1883
James Arthur Schwarz parents Henry Cecil Schwarz and Emma Schwarz, 10 Tavistock Crescent, father's occupation traveller
Births Mar 1883
MADDOCKS James Arthur Kensington 1a 27
23rd August 1885 St Luke West Kilburn born 1st February 1884
Cecilia Grace Julia De Rosemont Schwarz parents Harry Cecil De Rosemont Schwarz and Emma De Rosemont Schwarz, 10 Tavistock Crescent, father's occupation commercial agent
Births Mar 1884
DE ROSEMONT SCHWARZ Cecilia Grace J Kensington 1a 46
Marriage
2nd December 1916 St Mary Acton
Charles Brown 27 Bachelor Chaffeur Stanley Road Asford Middlesex Robert Brown (deceased) Coachman
Daisy Ruby Schwarz 27 Spinster 136 Avenue Road Acton Harry Cecil Schwarz Commercial Traveller
Both signed
Witnesses James Arthur Schwarz and George Brown
Births Dec 1889
Schwarz Daisy Ruby Paddington 1a 57
Marriage
20th August 1902 St Luke Westbourne Park
John Chappuis 22 Bachelor Cab Proprietor 1 Burlington Mews John Chappuis (Deceased) Van Proprietor
Cecila Grace Julia de Rosemont Schwarz 18 Spinster 9 Shrewsbury Road Henry Schwarz (Deceased) Gentleman
Both signed
Witnesses James Vincent and C Ses?
Births Mar 1892
Schwarz Phillis May Paddington 1a 29
Death
Deaths Jun 1905
Schwarz Emma 44 Paddington 1a 30
Have you the birth certificates of the last two children? Was Henry still with the family?
Regards
Valda
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Valda thank you for your reply.
I have the majority of what you have given m and I am waiting for the birth record of Phylis. because on the census she is put down as daughter to Emma. but when Phylis married in 1891 she claims her father is James Arthur: deceased.
Daisy baptism show Henry as her father.
Cannot find Henry Cecil on any census records. A mystery ?
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Hi
When Phyllis married in 1908 her mother was already dead. If she had never known her father she may have assumed her brother was named for him. Henry might not appear on an English census because he wasn't present in the country when one was taken, arriving after the 1881 census and leaving before the 1891 census. On Cecilia's 1902 marriage the deceased description for her father may merely have been for propriety's sake the family not knowing whether he was deceased or not or deceased as far as they were concerned.
Children of a married woman are always presumed to be the legitimate children of the marriage and might be registered or baptised as such (it doesn't require two parents to be present at a baptism, or any for that matter as far as an adult baptism is concerned).
However Henry Cecil doesn't sound particularly Germanic so it may have been Anglicised.
Regards
Valda
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The gap betwen the births of Cecilia Grace ("Gracie" per 1891) in 1884 and Daisy in 1889 makes me wonder whether Henry left sometime during that period (the later children then being fathered by persons unknown). Emma was enumerated as "married" in both the 1891 and 1901 censuses but may have been deserted. On the other hand her husband may simply have been away at the relevant times but otherwise still part of the household.
One H.C.R. Schwarz, a cattle dealer aged 27, sailed Liverpool-New York on the Etruria, landing 12 July 1886. He was an American citizen; last place of residence was London.
His age gives an estimated DOB of 1859, consistent with his having been 24 upon marriage in 1883.
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Valda, again thank you for your post. when reading it from another point of view it often puts another lean on the situation , which of course is completely freezable. Hopefully the birth cert of Phylis can shed some light on who her father is, (or maybe not ) lol
avm228, I congratulate you. where on earth did you find that entry. I have been searching for weeks .and haven,t come remotely close. Thank you for your assistance.
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can I please have this subject linked to the USA board, Thankyou
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Hi
The topic on the American board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,572615.0.html
Regards
Valda
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Thankyou Valda
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Hello. My maternal grandmother was Grace Cecilia de Rosemont Schwarz and I too am try to find Henry Cecil. Have you found anymore information? My mother has done a DNA test and am waiting for the results. Have you done a DNA test? I have asked a genealogist to help me with this search and she too has drawn a blank. We think that he was Henry Cecil living in Rosemont in the States.